Top 100 Albums of the 1990's

spaceman13 · Post by **spaceman13** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:28 pm

In case anyone is interested pitchforkmedia.com has posted a list of their choices for the top 100 albums of the previous decade.

Post by **runcible** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:05 pm

Inevitably I disagreed with almost all of it - doesn't everyone else? Some interesting inclusions that I applauded - Olivia Tremor Control, Yo La Tengo's Painful. But no Lazer Guided Melodies, Ritual Lo Habitual, or Yerself Is Steam which are crucial ommissions (unless I just missed them). Of course there'll be loads of stuff they'd never include which are important to me such as Bardo Pond and The Heads, but it looked blatantly like a list that a bunch of smug journos had compiled. OK Computer was always going to be in there despite me still not getting it. The Soft Bulletin? God help us - that was my disappointment of the decade.

Obviously this is an American run thing so I must confess that I hadn't heard probably 60% of the stuff on there.

spaceman13 · Post by **spaceman13** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:49 pm

Runcible, good point about Ritual de lo..., that ommision hadn't even occurred to me. If this list intrigues some of you, check the current issue of Rolling Stone for there list of the 500 greatest albums. How do you even compile a list that large?! Anyway, before any of you ask, NO they couldn't even squeeze in ONE Spiritualized album out of the five hundred listed. Not that that suprises me.

perfect presciption · Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:59 pm

The thing I dislike about pitchfork is that they are so damn american indiecentric and often find themselves bowing at altar of Bob Pollard, who is nothing but a drunk from Ohio, and everything in his wake which I can't stand. Not to mention Built To Spill (I though pitchfork disliked jam bands) and The Disemberment Plan? I personally would have moved Screamadelica and Deserter's Songs way way up in the list and please, no Tortoise.

good dope/good fun · Post by **good dope/good fun** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:19 pm

I believe there is an "r" in prescription.
I could be wrong though.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:17 am

I read Pitchfork almost everyday - although they are overly cynical and often elitist, the writing is usually pretty good and they cover a lot of interesting artists that you don't read about elsewhere.

Regarding the list, I thought it was pretty cool that OK Computer and Loveless were 1 and 2, respectively. I listened to OK Computer all the way through today and it seems to me that that it's an undeniably badass album. I still don't understand why so many people on this board are anti-Radiohead, but I don't want to get into that.

I was a little annoyed with the inclusion of TWO Pavement albums in the top ten - that's ridiculous. Slanted and Enchanted sounds like shit to my ears and I don't think the songs are very good at all. Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain is a whole different story though, and I think it deserves to be on the list, but probably not in the top 10.

Anyway, I was surprised not to see one Afghan Whigs album (or did I just miss that?). Black Love and 1965 are fantastic, though a lot of people seem to prefer the earlier stuff.

It would have been nice to see Lazer-Guided Melodies in there, but Ladies and Gents was the real breakthrough album for Spiritualized, so it's not a surprise. By the way, does anyone know for sure what the Cheapster b-sides will be???

bachwards · Post by **bachwards** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:33 am

That list somehow managed to be worse than their last 90s list. Though I enjoy the album, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea has no place in the top ten. Ditto for The Soft Bulletin, and if they're going to include 2 Pavement albums, one should be Wowee Zowee. The Dismemberment Plan are awful and Pitchfork is pretty much the sole reason anyone takes them seriously. The inclusion of two Built to Spill albums in the top 30 without any Dinosaur Jr is also suspect. Loveless should have been above Radiohead, but I really wasn't surprised by that.

The biggest problem, however, is the fact that they tried to compensate for the last list by including hip-hop this time. I seriously doubt more than 4 or 5 writers on that staff are qualified to write about it, and the fact that it makes up about 1/3 of the list makes it look like typical hipster posturing.

Post by **runcible** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:36 am

bachwards wrote: typical hipster posturing

Talk about hitting the nail on the head! You got it just right. I'm no expert on hip-hop but I recognise the fact that any comprehensive list of best of albums must include something from that area. I felt a lot of the list fits into bachwards' description actually.

For me Lazer Guided Melodies was the album of the 90's. I'd replace Soft Bulletin with Hit To Death, add Yerself is Steam, Ritual Lo Habitual, Bardo Pond's Amanita, A Northern Soul and Pills Thrills and Bellyaches... If I sat in front of my music collection I dare say I could find some more but those are pretty immediate.

telliott3 · Post by **telliott3** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:04 am

Why does Pitchfork bother with these lists? Its "expertise" is obviously limited to reviewing indie, IDM, and (of late) hip hop records. What about jazz, country, and the countless other musics one should consider in compiling such a list. What about Gillian Welch, Steven Reich, Lucinda Williams, Ken Vandermark, John Zorn, Bill Frisell, Kronos Quartet, Matthew Shipp? Two Pavement records in the top ten? Two Guided By Voices?? Two Jesus Lizard??? Two Brainiac ???? Even within the confines of indie, I would suggest that Bark Psychosis's 'Hex' and 'Lazer Guided Melodies' were glaring ommissions.

BVCP206 · Post by **BVCP206** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:37 am

Just stating the obvious but LGM is a scandalous omission. One of the standout albums of all time let alone the 90's ! Noticed the inclusion of some 'Oldham' stuff in there but how can they possibly ignore 'There Is No One What Will Take Care Of You' an absolute gem.

It's all about opinions !

bearzo · Post by **bearzo** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:35 am

other than the fact that pavement was the best band of the 90s ( followed by the Boo Radleys and then spiritualized), I think pitchforkmedia is tainted by the fact that stephen malkmus continues to be in top form if not better than his pavement days. while j pierce continues to put out great albums (in my opinion) that opinion is certainly not held by others (mainly those who don't just want to hear new "shoegazer" (as mentioned in another post).
slanted & enchanted sounds like crap?? sorry its not glossy enough for you hon.

Post by **runcible** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:16 am

Saw Pavement live once, March 1994. Left half way through as I thought they were really boring. I loved that Perfect Sound Forever 10" and bought Slanted and Enchanted with some fervour when it was released, but sold it very soon after as I just couldn't get into it at all. Opinions, eh?

asd2112 · Post by **asd2112** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:47 am

while pitchfork has been pissing me off of late (radiohead's new album got a 9.5 or some shit) at least they offer an opion other than mtv's or rollinstone's, sometimes anyway. the review of soft bulletin by flaming lips(in the 100 list) is kind of funny. they ask if anyone else besides keith richards or the flaming idiots have created such great music while under the influence of heroin. guess they forgot spaceman ever lived. sent the site an email suggesting that if the soft bulletin was number 3 then their writers must have moved on form heroin to crack, no reply yet. but back to the pavement thing. i really enjoy pavement but don't see the point in two of their albums being in the top 10. never heard slanted and enchanted. but i think i'll buy it now just to see what the fuss is about.

wadders · Post by **wadders** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:22 pm

O.K. Computer above Loveless? Oh dear.

natty · Post by **natty** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:04 pm

I like 'Slanted and Enchanted', it's a great record. I think I've got to agree with most of runcibles choices, with the exception of "A Northern Soul", which I think is half a great album really. There are some absolutely amazing tracks on there, probably Verve's best, but I still prefer it's predecessor 'A Storm in Heaven' as a complete album. Yerself is Steam is one of the best records of the '90s for sure, and probably one of the most inventive I've ever heard. I've heard nothing like it since. And of course, Laser should be up there too, probably on top.

spaceman13 · Post by **spaceman13** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:52 pm

For those that are swayed to go out and buy Slanted and Enchanted based on the Pitchfork list definetly get the reissue package that came out this past year. I wouldn't consider Pavement a band that hooks you on the first listen, but like an earlier post I would definetly put them up there with the other "it" bands of the ninety's. The reissue has all of S/E, other songs from the Slanted seesions (searing version of Baptiss Blacktick), the superior Watery Domestic EP (arguably the best four songs pavement ever recorded), two Peel Sessions (great hard versions of Kentucky Cocktail and Here) and an entire show from 1992 at Shepards Bush Empire.

Pavement is in the midst of giving the same treatment to there (some believe best) second album, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. Can't wait!

Post by **runcible** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:47 pm

natty wrote: I think I've got to agree with most of runcibles choices, with the exception of "A Northern Soul", which I think is half a great album really. There are some absolutely amazing tracks on there, probably Verve's best, but I still prefer it's predecessor 'A Storm in Heaven' as a complete album.

Verve fans seem to be divided on this. I think I'm one of the slightly smaller section who prefer A Northern Soul. There are stories that there was a mix of it that people in the biz (such as Jason and Kate particularly) raved about, saying it was the best thing for years and years, and who were then mystified and disappointed at the actual release which was apparently very different to what they'd heard. I've tried for years to track that mix down but know no one who has actually heard it. I used to know the guy who ran Hut and he wasn't giving anything away on the subject despite my endless hassling.

Nevertheless, for me the released version of ANS is a mighty record. Although I love A Storm In Heaven to me it sounds like a debut album (you can read 'very slightly immature' in that statement) but with many breath-taking moments. ANS comes across as more mature, with more resonance, power and general thought-provoking music than ASIH. Incidentally although Lazer Guided Melodies is a debut album Jason had made so much music prior to it's construction it never comes across as that. I recently heard the demos for ANS (a large tip of the hat to Jason T for that) and although part of me wondered if I'd finally tracked down the 'lost mix' of it, they are just demos, albeit tremendous ones. They reaffirm what I believe, which is that ANS is absolutely incredible. Mind you the version of Country Song from the demos is pretty spine tingling and the reworked song ended up as just a b-side (with the demo vastly superior to what was released), but then Verve were in the habit of making quality b-sides on almost every single that came out. Final word has to be the fact that the album that made them famous and which more people own more than any other (i.e. Urban Hymns) is, by several light years, the most inferior record they made. But we've had this debate before...

dredgie · Post by **dredgie** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:33 pm

too busy stayin' alive !!!!!

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:11 am

Huh, not liking Pavement ? Started the slow-fi movement that Grandaddy is now enjoying. Even the lyrics to Grandaddy are way too familiar to Pavement. Don't have the S/E Redux, but would like to get it someday with all the b-sides, etc. I also prefer A Northern Soul to A Storm In Heaven.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:53 am

spacemanrich wrote:Huh, not liking Pavement ? Started the slow-fi movement that Grandaddy is now enjoying. Even the lyrics to Grandaddy are way too familiar to Pavement. Don't have the S/E Redux, but would like to get it someday with all the b-sides, etc. I also prefer A Northern Soul to A Storm In Heaven.

Pavement?! A second rate Fall cover band is all they ever sounded like to me.......
Most lists are flawed and this one is full of too many holes to count. I lost faith in Pitchfork when they raved about the latest Basement Jaxx CD. I bought it on their word alone and I can't believe what a load of shit it is. Fuck them!

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:01 am

spacemanrich wrote:Huh, not liking Pavement ?

\

Try hating Pavement!! I tried listening to S/E and couldn't get thru the second song. I think they are given far too much slack. They were pretty bad live to.

Locke325 · Post by **Locke325** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:38 pm

Personally..., i like all the above bands, Radiohead's cool, Flaming Lips are cool, Pavements cool, (but Spiritualized is the coolest). I really dont care if some album is in a list higher than others i like, that just means that album has not been recognized by the mainstream. I mean really, do you think many know this great band? I ran into this band by accident in allmusic.com (which by the way is the best music site ive seen). Plus when certain magazines/shows are doing these lists they limit themselves mostly to was is either cult famous (i.e. Doors, velvet underground, Frank Zappa) and obvious mainstream bands, (Beatles, Bob Dylan, David Bowie ect.). Spiritualized might be cult famouse but its not yet as widely known as others. And to do that it would have to sell out, wich nobody here im sure, wants that to happen.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:13 am

Early in this thread there was mention of the Verve (I tend to prefer that spelling: it's easier to say and just "Verve" sounds silly) and some debate over what their best record was.

Whereas I am sadly an Urban Hymns person (marvelous latter-day folk-rock is what it is, well-written, nicely shaded with country and R&B influences, and much closer to Spiritualized than some would dare admit) I can certainly chime in on Northern Soul and Storm In Heaven. Northern Soul always struck me as a bit ponderous and the sound was too thick and muddy to really get involved in. Some of the softer numbers were nice - History and Life's an Ocean are classics - but in general I have thought since 1995 that it sounded hubristic and was a bit overlong.

On the contrary I think Runcible's interpretation of Storm In Heaven is somewhat accurate. If I hadn't heard the Verve EP first or seen them live I wouldn't have regarded McCabe as the brilliant talent he is. Leckie's mix is a little soupy and the various overdubs aren't distinct enough. Coupled with the tinny effects on Ashy's voice the record has sections that do sound a bit callow and dated. On the earlier singles and eponymous EP McCabe's guitars were always in distinct seperation and Ashy's singing much tauter and cleaner and neater. Of course the extended versions were a little indulgent but I think the edited single A-sides - and maybe Man Called Sun - are all better than anything on ASIH as a whole, except maybe Blue and See You In the Next One. But in the last few years I've come around a bit in my opinions of ASIH. I find Ashy's weak pitch control on the record a sign of immaturity, but all in all it's got parts that are really spellbinding, like the Love-like acoustic/flute jangle of Virtual World that I hated until last year. I think it's aged better than LGM, really, since although the latter has stronger songs, the sound of the Verve is more distinct and compelling and it had broader dynamics. I think there's a good possibility that the harder sound of things like Already There influenced the dynamics of Pure Phase (much wider and livelier than LGM) until Jason went into the studio to clean it up and presumably never returned.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:04 am

Has anyone taken a little time to listen to Rated X? It' so beautiful. Yak yak yak about how bad the new album is. Try recording one yourself - I know there are a bunch of musicians on this board. Anyway, that song clearly proves that Pierce hasn't lost it. It's pretty sad that he has to be constantly defended on the Spiritualized message board , which is overloaded with quotes about how poor the new stuff is. What a joke. CWII will probably be a waste of money for everyone on the board, but that's why you're here isn't it???? ... because you're the biggest fans and you already have it all ... right???? If you're so fed up, just put on Odyssey & Oracle and try not to choke. Fucking hell.

natty · Post by **natty** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:41 pm

I saw Pavement a few times, sometimes a load of shambolic shit, othertimes really, really good. Dunno if whoever said they were shit live just caught them on a bad night?

I'm gonna stick up for the latest SPZ album again too. OK, it's not 'Lazer', but there are still some great songs on there, and it's much, much more enjoyable than 'Let it Come Down' to my ears. I didn't feel disappointed upon first listen, which I did with LICD, in fact it was the first time in ages a record has given me that 'tingling up the spine' feeling. 'Rated X' is a really beautiful song, as are 'Hold on' and 'Lord, Let it Rain on Me' (although it doesn't particularly need the choir, it doesn't fuck it up or anything). The much maligned 'This little life of mine' is one of my favourite rockers J's done too. And it doesn't contain any butcheries of classic SP3 songs... I don't get why so many SPZ fans have given it such short shrift.

CinnamonBoy · Post by **CinnamonBoy** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:53 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:...but I think the edited single A-sides - and maybe Man Called Sun - are all better than anything on ASIH as a whole...

Mmmmm, "Man Called Sun" - perhaps my favourite song ever! Pure magic!
"Gravity Grave" is another classic...

Does anybody know what McCabe is doing nowadays???

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:43 pm

I think Warmth got his threads confused! No problems though.

Well to return to the pitchfork list after my little Vervy diatribe I'll happily call it a mess with scarcely any albums I much like in the top twenty or so and a lot of drivel.

mazza · Post by **mazza** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:55 pm

CinnamonBoy wrote:
twentysixdollars wrote:...but I think the edited single A-sides - and maybe Man Called Sun - are all better than anything on ASIH as a whole...
Mmmmm, "Man Called Sun" - perhaps my favourite song ever! Pure magic!
"Gravity Grave" is another classic...

Does anybody know what McCabe is doing nowadays???

not sure, heard he was doing stuff with aphex twin, but there's nothing solid confirming that.

found this though, quite interesting if you want to know what equipment McCabe used.
http://www.nickmccabe-kim-2freespirits. ... .page5.htm

mazza · Post by **mazza** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:04 pm

and a nick mccabe remix -

http://www.nickmccabe-kim-2freespirits.co.uk/media.htm

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:19 pm

[quote="natty"]I saw Pavement a few times, sometimes a load of shambolic shit, othertimes really, really good. Dunno if whoever said they were shit live just caught them on a bad night?
quote]

That would be me. I saw them twice and apparently caught shit nights both times. I do understand off nights. That is what makes great bands great. Mercury Rev were shit some nights too. But when they were on, THEY WERE ON! Hell, I even walked out of a My Bloody Valentine show I had flown to Baltimore to see. Well, truth is M Rev w/David Baker were opening and I had never seen them. After an hour of noodling MBV went on and were absolute SHIT! I spoke to Kevin Shields a few days later in NYC and he asked why I wasn't at the after show meet and greet in Baltimore and told him the truth. I couldn't stand it. I could barely tell what songs they were playing. They knew it was bad too.

natty · Post by **natty** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:29 am

Totally agree with you about Mercury Rev. They were one of the best bands I've ever seen on a good night, and completely interminable on a bad one.

Horrorflick · Post by **Horrorflick** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:30 pm

...You guys are funny! Ha ha ha....

man · Post by **man** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:07 pm

for verve's mccabe, check out the beta band 3 eps which i think he produced, the guitar parts on the first track dry the rain have the distinct mccabey style

as for these compilation lists, someone made the best point yet that p-fork had left out countless other genres of music so you have to approach critics these days almost as if you would artists.. that they 'belong' to a specific (perhaps narrow) genre and i guess we all know what pitchfork's genre is

another thing, these writers all have their own personal biases, is there any guarantee that if everyone on this board cooperatively tried to compile a best of the 90s, that it wouldn't turn out shit?

Spiritualized

Top 100 Albums of the 1990's

Top 100 Albums of the 1990's

Top 100

Re: Top 100

Re: Top 100