16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

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16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:20 am

I was very pleased to find a variety of quite well preserved Writings and Handwritten Chapters not included in modern Bibles and modern Christian Writings. Unlike the common Latin documents I usually find, 9 examples were in German! This is a little bit unusual; in fact, the Handwritten Pieces, very Beautiful I should add, were all written in German with Latin notations in a separate hand and a deep red Indian ink, from 1599 to 1630.

One chapter, dated 1644 was written in Latin, and a notation attached w/ wax denounced (within a 100 years as unacceptable), partly because it refers to a list of dreams, and some of these Dreams were, for their day, essentially pornographic, and this no doubt helped to render the writing unacceptable; rarely do I find such clear examples of Dream States in the writing, and perhaps the third? Example of what was excluded because it was considered an "unclean" work by content.

My interest in these documents is primarily Historical, and frankly, I like to read and preserve such old documents; what church is referred to is less important to me than the quality of the Artwork and writings; it is another sort of "time machine effect" to view upclose and read these works; Made almost ALWAYS on sheepskin or incredibly nice paper, quite thick; I have a tool used to this day in Nepal and other Ancient places, that is used to gently "scrape" away a mistake; a sort of Antiquity-WhiteOut. So many beautiful items have been lost over time, I find it gives me a sense of accomplishment that does make me very happy to save these Antiquities. I also collect lithographs and artworks from this period, and before; it seems very strange the first few times you see drawings or pictures that do not include a 3D type of perspective; some of these from Normandy are excellent examples; and one can also see the best of quality for the Monarchies, and mediocre works for the "masses"; it is rewarding to see the evolution of artworks in "mass produced" pieces, or something like it; very interesting stuff I think.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby ro » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:47 pm

semisynthetic wrote:I also collect lithographs and artworks from this period, and before;

Hi semi,
just curious about any 10th-13th century things you may have and care to show?
Thanks!
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:21 am

I do, ro; I have been very fortunate to find what I did and keep them safe. But I have no way of properly photographing them. Truly, some black and white examples would not be much trouble; but I would need a camera far better than what I have to try and capture the beauty of so many others.

It was never my original intention to create images of these items; at least not when I began looking for and finding such items; I was interested only in each item and its preservation. Some of the exceptional pieces are kept in a Paper Vault; too many Safes which are designed to protect money tend to form moisture internally over time; so I splurged in order to protect some wonderful examples of History. I am simply unable to do what I would like to do and share some of the more interesting pieces that are not too fragile. Thankfully, when Books and Documents were first Printed, or even those written by hand, were done so using very high quality materials; later on, the day to day ephemeral writings were not placed on quality paper or vellum, and these pieces easily crumble if not handled carefully. It is many of these I had thought would be candidates for Photography to preserve the information on them; but I need a better camera.

Besides, for now I cannot even enter my own study! Not until I recover more; I haven't been home "for good" long at all.
But it is a good idea to have images of the items; I'll call those in the know about what I should and should not do.

It is a good idea, ro.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century documents and Older

Postby semisynthetic » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:12 am

There is one item that because of its Beauty and Antiquity I think you would enjoy; a trio of Scrolls from China, c. 300AD; they represent many generations of a family; the Characters are in an Ancient Chinese Script that only those who have studied it can read; and one fellow, who looked at them for hours told me that he KNEW he was not getting all the jokes and nuances. One example that I particularly liked was a family member, with stylized portrait, who studied bats; bats had a certain appeal to the Chinese over time, more than one Emperor had their collections of bats. Anyway, the Character for "bat", hanging upside down as bats will do, means "Great Joy"; and all through these scrolls are found these "having fun with characters" with the bat collector having the characters for "bat" all 'round him, including upside down for "Great Joy". Drawings of the family members are fun, too; sometimes cartoon-like, with a great exaggeration of ears and nose; but I noticed the farther back in time on the scroll, the less "fun" was had with the ancestors.

The Chinese Scrolls are very much 3 dimensional in the way they were made, by a sort of weaving; this makes photography very difficult, at least it would take away the level of detail of artwork and characters; but there is still too much to see without better equipment. Once again, an interesting item I had never intended to photograph when I bought it, and so never did I give that idea any thought.
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16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:09 am

The Print below is not terribly olde, but is shows the errors of Science and sometimes the pigheadedness of those with an agenda. The commonly named "Ivory Billed Woodpecker" was "pronounced" extinct in about 1935. After that, anyone who claimed to have seen the "officially" extinct bird was told they had seen the "Pileated" Woodpecker; a much smaller bird.

As a boy of 8-9 years old, I had practically memorized Audubon's Birds of North America, with special attention to the more interesting birds to me; game birds, the various predators, (including Owls), and Woodpeckers (and visiting Hummingbirds). When I was 9 years old, I was hunting in the absolutely beautiful Olde Forest of my youth in late Spring; Giant trees, thick green moss covered the ground like Natures carpeting right up the sides of the trees; one day, I heard a large bird flying from behind, headed my way, but I did not recognize the sound; but from the wingspan of this large bird, I thought it might be a Great Horned Owl; so I hid under a wild plum tree branch FROZEN when I saw the unmistakable black and white underside color pattern of The Ivory Bill; that was in the 1960's; and I watched with an almost front row seat - the viewing problem was alleviated when I slowly laid flat on my back on the wonderfully soft, cooling moss so I could look practically straight up; I could hear a Chirping racket (for any of you who have never been in the forest, the racket made by baby birds is deafening depending on the time of day); but that giant Cottonwood Tree was where all the racket came from that day; it was so exciting to know that these magnificent, and I will add very WEIRD acting birds were NOT EXTINCT! I watched as one or the other came and went for food for the chicks; it was like seeing a Dinosaur come out of the underbrush! And I knew then that I must not believe even "experts" without more inquiry; so for all these years I have remained an Empiricist.

I have seen a Nesting Pair where I live now, twice in 15 years; INCREDIBLY SHY; but I hope they will "get busy" this spring and repopulate; there are hundreds of suitable trees - I never have a tree cut down; long after a tree has expired, it can be a home and/ or a source of food for many years; so I just let nature do what it wants; it tends to anyway..............

There is a lot of big talk about "Science" having decided this or that; baloney. Ideally, Science (should) attempt to approach some Truth; but the judgment is out on just about everything; Politics has always let its tendrils creep into Science where it doesn't belong. (I have known that since BEFORE I was 9; so I did NOT report the sightings, too many loud yahoos upsetting things!); After 30+ years of Academia and all that one must wade through at times, it is annoying to see or hear Science bastardized by anyone with an agenda; Social Sciences, like so many other "studies" of a similar ilk, steal "Science" to make the rest of it sound, at least, legitimate; sort of like finding a drunk in an alley, putting him in a white lab coat along with some thick glasses; (I actually did this once in cooperation with the Departments of Philosophy and The Dept. of Psychiatry from the Medical School branch); People will believe almost ANYTHING if it has an "air" of respectability or credence associated with it. They will even take down notes of the ranting drunk from an alley if he is wearing the obligatory White Lab Coat and Glasses.

So below is a nice, simple Print, from "Blackie and Son" Glasgow, Edinburgh, & London 1866; I believe the lower left bird was reclassified in part because it is primarily a night-bird, in a family related to the Woodpecker. The bird has a very pleasant but somewhat lonely sound, as they call out at equidistance from one another, a commonality of most birds.

I recently saw a snippet of a RON GEESIN interview, who had a "Theory" about the sounds and relative distances of the common Blackbird of the UK; the theory, as he admitted, turned out to completely wrong, but GEESIN still "created" the effect as HE heard it in his own head for a forthcoming recording.
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IVORY BILLED WOODPECKER 1866.jpg
IVORY BILLED WOODPECKER 1866
IVORY BILLED WOODPECKER 1866.jpg (113.26 KiB) Viewed 1561 times
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby ro » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:57 pm

Beautiful print, great descriptions and wonderful stories!
Thanks, semi.
I hope you're back on your feet soon.
After I started birdwatching, woodpeckers always surprised me.
Their (and I guess I'm talking mostly Downy or Hairy here) "just going about my business" voice (as opposed to alarm call) never seemed to fit the way they looked... which is silly, I know.
I should know never to judge a bird by its feathers.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:42 am

I have some interesting 15th - 17th Century Documents and prints, and of course some later items that are not too "delicate"; next week I will try to reach them; my study really filled up; so much so I shall need to move some unrelated boxes to reach the prints!

I Post this stuff and others up on the SITE because I think many people enjoy it; and admittedly, it gives me an excuse to look through what I may have missed!
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Fri May 22, 2015 9:49 am

I apologize for not being able to reach the documents I had in mind; I keep finding bizarre things from around the USA Civil War period. One piece that is a Map of Washington around the Civil War era, struck me as apropos after I watched some news and "C-Span" which covers the Congress, The US House of Representatives and the Senate. Here is a small corner image.

(The earlier Documents are (literally) out of reach for awhile).

I heard a couple of comments that were just NUTS; and after a few minutes of just looking, I found this Map. I know it is not in good taste, but after the events and blurbs of the day, it fit well with Washington. :D
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Civil War Era Map with GOVERNMENT HOSPITAL for the INSANE.jpg
Civil War Era Map with GOVERNMENT HOSPITAL for the INSANE
Civil War Era Map with GOVERNMENT HOSPITAL for the INSANE.jpg (59.9 KiB) Viewed 1458 times
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby The Dr » Mon May 25, 2015 5:58 pm

the map reminded me of the stroy of when jack kerouac was in the merchant marines, during drills he got bored and walked off to the library and was then moved to the psychatric hospital and soon earned his discharge. i think it was the only smart thing he could do. nice map!
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Tue May 26, 2015 10:00 am

The Dr wrote:the map reminded me of the stroy of when jack kerouac was in the merchant marines, during drills he got bored and walked off to the library and was then moved to the psychatric hospital and soon earned his discharge. i think it was the only smart thing he could do. nice map!


Thank You;
I enjoy Period Photos, Books and Documents; the map is really quite large, but it was ALREADY folded to present what I have shown.
Along with the map were some letters and Legal Documents from the Civil War era; a very interesting look into a very sad era.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby The Dr » Tue May 26, 2015 6:03 pm

do you feel the era is now considered more romantic than it was?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed May 27, 2015 5:44 am

I am always very pleased to get new "old books". I have been reviewing Latin, which I have studied what now seems very long ago, but always enjoyed; and hoped to then review The Ancient Greek texts as well. There is a certain clarity achieved when the text is "read as it was written"; translations are almost essentially "rewrites" and I have found it troublesome. This was written by Philippe Labbé (1607 – 1667); a French Jesuit writer on Historical, Geographical and Philological questions.

I feel VERY fortunate to obtain this Latin Book on the details of the Greek grammar rules. It is (not surprisingly) quite rare; there has been much unraveling and War in the ages since it was written and printed by Parisiis : Apud Simon Benard, 1676. I have purchased quite nice books from this person before. It is wonderful that the book still exits in a complete form; for, unfortunately, too many get cut up by the chapter or page; but certain pieces I obtain as I can; but naturally prefer the complete 1st Printing.

Printed in 1676, it is entitled "Regulae accentuum et spirituum Graecorum : Novo ordine infaciliores & difficiliores, pro captu scholasticorum, distributae. Quibus additae sunt nonnullae obseruationes omnibus Graecae linguae studiosis vtilissimae. Item dialecti apud oratores vsurpatae, à poëticis seiunctae: cum syntaxi faciliori ac figurata (& ct).

Below are a few photographs sent to me; NOT the best photos, and I cropped them to save space; the bottom of the spine is damaged; but the book as a whole is complete and suffers no other damage, and is in relatively very nice condition.

Naturally, I will be using new, modern printings of books with similar points of study, but there is nothing like seeing closer to the Original; there are subtleties that frankly are best observed than easily described; but they do help with understanding of important nuances in not so minor ways.

Addendum:
Perhaps the most interesting points I've come across show how Roman numerals evolved from trade with the Etruscans in earlier times; the change in shape and meaning; what we all learned in Grade School is NOT how Julius (Iuleus) Caesar (pronounced Kaiser) wrote out his numerals, very informative and nearly of the time - almost! Just a few centuries off.
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1676 A1.jpg
1676 A1
1676 A1.jpg (34.96 KiB) Viewed 1428 times
1676 1a.jpg
1676 1a
1676 1a.jpg (83.91 KiB) Viewed 1428 times
1676 3c.jpg
1676 3c
1676 3c.jpg (69.68 KiB) Viewed 1428 times
Last edited by semisynthetic on Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed May 27, 2015 8:51 am

The Dr wrote:do you feel the era is now considered more romantic than it (really) was?


First of all, if you are referring to "The War Between the States" (aka "The War of Northern Aggression"), it is impossible to view the era without considering how both North and South had slaves; with time comes the "need" to clean up the realities of History that are, - inconvenient. So if that horrific way, which in its day was not considered as it is now - At least HERE; for slavery STILL exists around the world; another little "clean-up" has been done there also. [BUT LEAVING THAT ASIDE; it is a can of worms that someone will want to open and I do not, so I will instead take the documents of that era which I own, and share what they tell me; my interpretation of the day to day World of the past; nearly 100 letters; scores of reports and numerous Books, booklets and stories contemporaneous within this general era].

I think very often the Past is romanticized, and not without reason. It is so clear in the letters from that era; before, during and after the War. When you read these letters between individuals, or from the Judge and someone asking for help, whether they were poor or wealthy, there is a politeness, a respect regardless of economic class; If I could put up these letters, and have you read the letters from a particular Judge to those who were very poor, versus those who were very wealthy, I don't believe you could tell the difference - although the wealthy usually did receive a scolding for not knowing better! The less educated were often given a break, depending on the problem, at least in the examples I have, especially in the South. And it makes sense; position and power were looked at very differently on a local level. EVEN TODAY, I may receive a ticket on the Expressway, but locally, if the Sheriff or the Highway Patrolman who lives out where I do should stop me (only once in 15 years), to suggest I slow down, we ended up talking for half an hour; but where I live is remote, comparatively slower than a big city and personal relations are kinder and not so automatonic. If I am the only one on a stretch of road at night, why drive 45 MPH, unless I know there is a deer crossing?

I believe it is very difficult to place ourselves in a very different time where "normal" was certainly incredibly different than what we would consider so today. But the gentile manner in which scores of letters I have between friends, between business people, even between opposing sides are usually Beautifully written and polite; this seems to have been either believed a function or WAS a function of intellect, education and character. Whereas it may be easy to be rude and lowly in the anonymous virtual modern age, there was a time when it made a person LOOK and to be considered lowly and not the sort of person that was accepted; It is so clear in these letters and even in later communication.

I wish I could share the early cylinder recordings I have; one set is "How to write Business letters", and whether the amount due was $0.43 or $3.50, even the 4th or 5th letter was very polite on "If you could please remit the $1.12 due on May 12th, last, we would be so appreciative and we Thank You Sincerely for your patronage". Now a computer prints out when it is due and what the automatic penalty is for paying late! The humanity is fading; the ability to have time to understand a person's situation and WHY they may be late is fading. So much of what was once normal and on a higher plane of thought and reasoning is fading for all manner of reasons. So why not look at a time that was in MANY ways better?

Life was slower, and most people travelled very little in the way of distance; so it was not strange that you would be and continue to be kind to your neighbors; it was also the right thing to do because of ones Religion; or at least the Golden Rule. In these letters, and stories, there is talk of the family playing instruments together; regardless of economic status, each did what they could, and the family was closer and some culture was distributed by playing the Classics or common songs; it was an era of a warm togetherness, and extreme sadness from the poor medical knowledge; yet even THAT brought people together and private as they may be, there was still a sense of community while still remaining most certainly an individual with your way done within your family; NO ONE would tell you how to conduct your private affairs as long as it did not interfere with others.

One letter is apparently one of dozens - handwritten of course, "customized" letters to thank members of the Church (and others it turns out), for bringing food and paying a bill here or there while a widow was taken ill and bedridden. I have (3) of these letters, each very different, I suppose they were "first drafts" or something; or perhaps the lady's weak handwriting was copied by someone else and then THOSE letters distributed. Whatever the case, these were not form letters; they were genuine thank you letters for a time when neighbors naturally looked out for one another; whether because it was the right thing to do, or whatever the reason, they did so. It is still so; get stuck in Colorado on a snowbank, and chances are someone will have a chain or rope to help out. When my neighbor, just a few miles away, had to go take care of a sick family member, I and another neighbor watered his livestock. It was very easy, since he has hoses going directly to each watering site. But without that help in midsummer, his livestock and his livelihood would have suffered.

So I think we DO romanticize the Past, if only to remind ourselves that there is a better way. The Past Reminds Us that in many ways; despite hardships of all types, Life can be Better, and Richer; and Kinder. The 1880s may perhaps be a better era to do this; without the sad reality of slavery, the South, recovering, and the Great Freedoms to the West and Adventure.

Every era has its problems, so does each day; but one Great Point of History is we have a chance to see how certain things were indeed Better then than they may be today; and by our ability of seeing this, it allows us the chance to gain back what of Goodness and Greatness of one age was lost, and make Tomorrow Better. This is what I see when I read the totality of the books and stories and papers; Insights they give into those now seemingly distant times.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:02 am

(I was looking for some early Biological Images; how Primates were drawn and considered in artworks; I was also looking for a very early religious document on The Passion, and an even older Religious document outlining methods of Torture and Crucifixion, and lastly, a VERY old Roman document on Crucifixion "types"; a local church wanted to have copies of the latter documents.

Here is an image of an early 18th century lithograph of a wolf having killed oxen, or perhaps cattle; the story is printed on the back, (in French); and a second early 1767 example of Hercules (and his clones); since he is shown performing multiple feats. This too has the short version printed on the back. I am surprised at the relatively poor grade of linen; perhaps used in University or perhaps a Private School or for a tutor. Who knows.
Usually such images were placed on a higher grade so that it would last a very long time unscathed. I happened across these looking for something else. You can still see how the concept of "Perspective" is not quite right, even more so in the Wolf vs. Bovine image. Earlier pieces are drawn so that it is easy to see why the World was proclaimed "flat" - that was the way it was presented visually!
Attachments
Hercules French Litho with story on reverse 001 50.jpg
Hercules French Litho with story on reverse
Hercules French Litho with story on reverse 001 50.jpg (221.4 KiB) Viewed 1361 times
Wolf; shown killing Oxen.jpg
Wolf; shown killing Oxen or cattle.
Wolf; shown killing Oxen.jpg (187.76 KiB) Viewed 1361 times
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:43 am

Hardly from the 16th or 17th Century, but I found it when I was looking though some Maps of various European and Related Wars, I found it appealing, and it was a gift.
This was a gift from the same Technician who presented me with a Beautiful "mirrored" image of the female form on a pair of Japanese Picture discs; she was with me for years in the Research Labs, but eventually had to fulfill her obligation to the Military. She is now an M.D.

This is an interesting piece of Erotica; firstly for the date, 1941; and the topic labeled in very tiny letters, "Lesbian Erotica" on the reverse, (which the young lady who obtained this did not notice - I remember kidding her about "rushing around" to obtain a present! In Truth, she must have looked very hard, for I am told that I'm not easy to buy for).
The artwork is quite good I think, the beauty of the human female form is very well presented - but WHY this was in a file labeled and filled with "Crimean War Period Maps" shows my cataloguing might need work. This is not a map of the Crimean War Period ! :D

There was a second example, but it was more graphic, and I did not want to offend anyone; it seems increasingly difficult to tell what offends people and why. Anyway, Artistically, I believe this to be the better of the two. The second example is from 1940. Very unusual material for a WWII Era work, compared to what I have "the most of" regarding WWII Ephemera, Documents, Books, manuals and so on.
Attachments
1941 erotica 001 20 150.jpg
1941 erotica
1941 erotica 001 20 150.jpg (72.41 KiB) Viewed 1361 times
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:58 pm

I (finally) found some of the very early documents that I had hoped to use in this Thread; and although I am REALLY PLEASED with the quality and the unusual sizes of these official Church Documents and even (2) Roman Parchments in a sort of "how to torture" and another on "crucifixion" - presented like "how to build a bird house", the problem being almost every one of these "sheets" are (very) unusually large, and I lack the equipment to photograph or create images to share. When I purchased the bulk of these, I did not worry about their size - just the content and sometimes the origin and Dates. Such documents are usually fairly small; often less than an ordinary
8 1/2" x 11" page; the last 6 documents I unpacked were more like Movie Posters! Great for the little collection I am building of Ancient Documents; these being from the 4th Century A.D. to 15th Century A.D.; there is another crate that I have not yet completely opened, which appears to have documents easier for me to share, but I am not sure at all of their age or even what many of these are; I could read "Maps of the Holy Land", in Greek, Latin and a "Germanic variation" I am not familiar with, which that alone might suggest anywhere from the 10th - 16th Century A.D. Not exactly nailing down the date, is it?

Anyway, I will continue to glean through these documents, most of which I bought almost 2 years ago, and are just not fresh in my mind what I obtained! I will continue to share interesting documents that I am able to make images of - perhaps if it is only a section of a Document; the writing or print are very nice; I need better equipment for certain items. (Sometimes even a 7" Single Sleeve is a problem!)...........

Since Documents of Antiquity ARE usually much smaller and easier to Image, I am surprised and frankly caught off guard! I would have, in retrospect, not been so narrow in my focus of this Thread. (But I am still happily surprised). :D
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:40 pm

I was very pleased to obtain a 1st Edition of "Justinian the 1st, Roman Law"; 1555; very nice leather binding with vellum. Written by a cleric from ancient documents; Latin; a Wonderful Christmas Present! I was unable to obtain an "acceptable" image; the leather is just a bit too dark; and using lighting to give contrast failed. It is a very beautiful book, and I am sorry I could not share it. When you have a chance to actually "see and hold" a book of this quality and Era, take note of how carefully every bit of work is done; it explains why they were so expensive (even in 1555), and in such remarkable condition still today.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:08 am

I started this Thread with the best of intentions, to share images from a collection of older and usually very rare Books, Pamphlets, Scrolls, Apocrypha and "science" when it was still referred to as "Natural Philosophy", (and most of such books have a Bible quote per page, at least!); It was a chance to see something new and stimulating; but, I did not succeed as I wished.
Too many documents have turned out to be too large for me to create readable images; the Chinese Pieces are mostly 3-Dimensional Scrolls, and they too cannot be imaged with my poor equipment; I never thought about "imaging" and all that is needed to share these - I bought them over the years because I wanted them, and since sharing their images has multiple problems, lighting, a better camera than I have, or even special equipment that is necessary for so many things, again, equipment I lack, I believe, that unless something shows up that is worth it, and I can image THAT PIECE, this will be the last entry on this Thread for now.
There are interesting pieces, above; and so many more left over; some very Olde; but if I should find something new I think you'll enjoy, I will add it if possible. I may find something forgotten over the years that is here now! Although it is disappointing, I know you will understand. Others on this SITE may have items that belong on this Thread, so for now, it is on "pause" for an unknown time.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Tue May 17, 2016 5:22 am

Last week I came across an early form of The Passion, and it is a Beautiful Piece; from 1210 A.D., on a heavy leather-skin/ vellum pressed, and written in STILL very deep-dark Black, in Latin of course, but the real Wonder of the piece is it is once again a large size!, intended, perhaps, for use in a Monastery as "The Ideal" example for copying into much smaller size books. It is decorated profusely in Gold; and the perimeter has Angels appearing in "motion", and cherubic figurines as "static sculpturines", the Red and Blue colors are still very clear and bright after all these years. The flaw, if it is a flaw, is a wavy nature inherent in older pieces that were often saved as rolled scrolls, and in this example makes me believe it may have eventually ended up in a larger Church where the piece was likely displayed around Easter each year, and rolled up to be stored in a metal protecting tube. The Photos I took were awful; like watching Latin scripture "on waves of a large lake or small sea". So, I described as best I could this really nice example.

I am trying to purchase a very small and Beautiful piece, (much newer!) of an example of at least 4 artists who, together created a lovely steel engraving of incredible detail. It is hard to bid against a crowd who have so much funding for their use; I keep hoping they will regard it as "too inconsequential", and it will slip by them; if I do NOT get it, that's OK, too.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Fri May 27, 2016 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed May 18, 2016 4:57 am

I am really very pleased that the piece (mentioned above) that appealed to me was apparently "too inconsequential" for anyone else, and so I did obtain it. This is a fairly new, but very detailed Steel Photogravure from 1847. It took no less than 4 named Artists to combine their styles to create a small, but beautiful piece, with the artwork centered in a much larger empty field. The work itself is roughly 10" L x 5.75" W(+/-). There would have possibly required up to another 4 artisans to finish and create this final piece. One of the first new additions in some time of a size and texture I could share here.

You can see that the gravure consists largely of 3 stacked "panels" on the page, with broken columns and destroyed antiquities, (including 2 skulls and femur) of Olde Rome framing it all. The Upper panel shows a fellow, (who in the title is hinted at as "Judas", but in the Latin plural form), and in the Latin subscript, giving coins to a poor, broken man; with an "unwatched" funeral procession in the very top left. The bottom panel shows The Christ, carrying the Cross, and pointing directly at a young(er) Judas, (as the singular). The Center Panel, the largest of all areas, shows the (plural) Older Judas, just as he is being "taken" as if by a falcon, by a "Christanus Angelus", or a "Christian Angel".

This description is taken from translation of the Latin subscript provided afterward, (which is odd). I am interested primarily in the quality of the Art, and the Methodology, that being the "New" Steel Engraving and fine quality. There is a lot History here, and in the translation of the subscript, the reasoning for a "plural Judas" is made clear by undeniable, unpleasant, anti-Semitic comments and rude inflections. And as I wrote above, that by intent or in error, the Latin subscript was NOT in the original Catalogue, but sent later.

To think that all you see was finally carved into Steel and printed, shows a high degree of skill was required to create this small, but Highly Detailed Piece. I magnified the actual size of the image by nearly 150% to better show the detail in the piece, which is very well done. In a few years, even more detailed images could be presented, and for less cost. Such a detailed piece from, say, 200 years earlier would be a great rarity; for the ability to reproduce mechanically was not yet quite up to this level; it would have been possible "one at a time". Imagine a book, Ideas written, and heavily Gilded pages decorated by hand, and costing what only royalty could afford, and THEN what happened when copies of Ideas could be shared by one person with thousands of others for "pennies". The trick is of course, to learn to know which Ideas are genuinely worth further consideration, and which are without merit.

The Internet presents a fine example of this problem.

In any event, I hope you enjoy at least some aspect of this 1847 steel gravure. There is much more to see than I would attempt to describe.

Addendum:
The Title of the Piece, which did not show up well in the image sent me, is in French; translation of the Title, in an Older French language, is "The Wandering Jew". A neutral, seemingly unbiased Title quite unlike the Olde Latin Description that is still not at all unbiased; for even the "kinder" early French is (literally) "The (Jew) Errant"; which in 1847 did mean "wandering", but after consideration of THIS Title, is still not the most complimentary of descriptions; French does often tend to "soften" the Latin in certain ways, since for precision of meaning; Original Latinuum Romanus is clearer in the meaning and the Context of how almost anything (usually) is described; with 30 "basic" ways of writing or saying the word "and", well, that little word alone helps make this point.
Attachments
Steelplate Photogravure by at least 4 Artists 1847 Angel Approaching 200xB.jpg
Steel plate Photogravure by at least 4 named Artists 1847 Angel Approaching
Steelplate Photogravure by at least 4 Artists 1847 Angel Approaching 200xB.jpg (169.96 KiB) Viewed 976 times
Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Tue May 24, 2016 1:25 am

A Pair of books (1st & 2nd Eds.) of the Occult:

System of Magick; or, A History of the Black Art.; c.1661/71-1728; A 1st Edition which is printed and Beautifully bound and Carefully Prepared. Beautiful Coloration. Contains information dealing with Satanic Cults; (claims) of Occult Control of Satan and assorted diagrammatics - with witchcraft, including "magic spells of The Most incredible Evil intent". The confusion of dates, e.g, "1840", came about because I received TWO books - the first being the one listed above, along with the 2nd Edition of 1728 - 1840. I thought the price was a little high, but the listing, seemingly confused was merely incomplete.
These sorts of books are always interesting - even if is only the quality of the writing, sometimes simply the depth of believing what the author has written! The Binding of both 1st & 2nd Eds. is beautifully done, and both books have very nice endpapers; in the 1st Ed., the page below is in Black & Red ink, (so this image is of the 2nd Ed., not the 1st).

Surprisingly, this is written in "Olde" English and NOT Latin; this does make reading easier, especially the more esoteric and arcane of meanings - and changes of wording versus meaning through Time; but generally these books were written by and for the Educated; and until (relatively) recently, Latin was like having Mathematics classes, History, or Natural Philosophy - (a precursor to The Sciences), and was most definitely considered to be important to a proper Education.
Besides, Latin is very useful in a number of ways still today; especially the original Latin of Caesar (and even earlier). Anyone who believes they may work in the field of Medicine, or The Sciences, or History will find that knowing even an elementary level of Latin gives them an advantage and insight to what a term means and how they were derived
.

(To be frank, the more I read this in either Edition, I understand clearly WHY it is not in Latin; the author is seemingly terribly confused, or purposefully dishonest; and Latin, when written in the Original Form, is decidedly CLEAR and "playing with words" is generally reserved for some of the greatest Writings ever written! This fellow is far from "Poetic" or even clever. I give him the benefit of the doubt in case he ACTUALLY believes what he writes, which in this genre often gives the "writer" the excuse to lie; but in other books of this sort, usually earlier, the writer is proud of being of a satanic order or mind.
Still - it does have some interesting information and points of History I've made notations to check; and there are passages that are better than others. There was a sort of "gap" in time between Mediaeval Writings and this era, and certainly later on, the genre improved in quality by a greater number of writers who had a more "standardized" view of satanism once again; but these Editions are mere "additions", and generally, disappointing.

The "Rhyme", shown on the page below, is (supposedly?) indicative of the discussions and meaning and intent of this very badly written 1st Ed. (or 2nd Ed.) Book)
.


(If it is worth sharing any more than this, I will upon reading the 1st Ed.).
Attachments
A System of Magick 1728 to 1840.jpg
1st Edition; A System of Magick; c. 1661/71-1728; IGNORE "1840" (CORRECTED DATES) Beautifully Bound.
A System of Magick 1728 to 1840.jpg (84.71 KiB) Viewed 959 times
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:14 am

Nearly 30 years ago, I splurged mightily on a single book of great Rarity and Importance. At the time, it was a small fortune; more than that, it cost almost all I had in the world; but was worth every cent. The Book is the 1st Ed. (1555 Edition) of Dante's "Divine Comedy", (with illustrations). For all these years, it has remained in a Bank safety deposit box, so the insurance cost to cover this book is practically free, i.e., affordable. It is kept maintained, with the purchase paperwork "Provenance" of Earlier Owners, and my ownership - for This Book is a complete and beautiful copy; one that had been passed down through the ages by a family that for reasons unknown, decided to sell it to me. When I first bought this Divine Comedy, (which came complete with a pack of sealed, ancient Italian Linen Gloves); a hint I took seriously, and advantage of, I spent more time just "wandering" though the Beauty of this Great Book of Historical Importance than I did reading it; in Italian, and not in Latin, as was the custom of the day.

I enjoyed holding and just looking at it; the Beauty of its construction, and of the Power of the writing.

But, I could not keep Banker's Hours to read it, and I did not wish to damage it by too much handling. So, I bought other, later editions, some translated into English. Never a "businessman", I am still very (admittedly) pleased to learn the current value of my 1555 Edition copy, since the value (of even lesser quality copies) is more than "simply substantial", and while I am able, I want to obtain other copies of the Comedy. Naturally, I cannot hope to obtain anything better (or earlier) than what I have; but I have managed to find assorted copies with variations in artwork, assorted exotic languages, and assorted quality and type of bindings, from Leather to pressed paper; NONE OF WHICH comes even close to the quality of the 1555 copy, but are still interesting and they have created, over time, a small, but varied "Collection of Dante's". The latest is another of several 19th Century copies in excellent condition, and a nice, "for reading" copy. It may be strange to some that I hide away a Beautiful and rare example of the early 1555 1st Ed.; but accidents and terrible things do happen; so much more than simply "cash" would be lost, an irreplaceable rarity of nearly 500 years of age could be lost forever. Such Books as this are very scarce and truly precious.

This latest copy, printed in 1847, has beautiful engravings, and is written in the English translation. Once again, I have computer problems, the Satellites are obscured by plant growth, and that growth must be cleared. It is a nicely sized book, with pages slightly larger than 9" x 11". If you do not have a copy of this work, I suggest you get a copy. It is as Beautifully worded and written for Today as it was nearly 500 years ago. A second copy from 1948 arrived yesterday, and is in nearly every way very much like the 1847 copy - surprising since many Post WWII books were not of the best paper or binding. It is also translated into English, and an even "better" reading copy, being of a large size and with (essentially) the same artwork(s).

Since the advent of the Internet and gadgets, newer books are a bargain. Even this very nice, nearly 170 year old copy was extremely reasonable in price. When I can, I will be happy to share some of the many gravures and other methods of illustrations.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:38 am

WhiIe I was "working" on my computer - using the old tricks that usually "awakens it", I looked through a Documents file and found a fairly decent image of an early 15th Century Printing of "The Passion"; I have not (yet) come across a really startling copy from c.1210 Anno Domini, but this later, double sided piece is very beautiful; it blends simple woodblock printing with hand-work painted on the printed letters, and has added, by hand, colors and of course Gilding in the First Letter of each major section. I believe I have, by process of elimination located other works - all too high and several feet away above stacked Preservation Boxes (and a fairly strange assortment of items). When the old machine works, I would like to make good my original intent of sharing these very early and beautiful examples by Posting them here. I really do not want the hassles involved in buying a new computer if I can help it, so I still await the IT guy.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby ro » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:51 pm

semisynthetic wrote:...a fairly decent image of an early 15th Century Printing of "The Passion"; ... it blends simple woodblock printing with hand-work painted on the printed letters, and has added, by hand, colors and of course Gilding in the First Letter of each major section.


oh, I'd love to see that!
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:29 am

It would be my pleasure to share the image, and others.

I may need a new satellite dish; I have not kept up with the "upgrades"; a fellow from Hughes will be here next week. In theory, anyway. None of the best pieces image as well as they do in person; I tried several times to photograph the Chinese piece listed above; even altered via lense and later with computer enhancement; I think that piece needs the Human Eye. Iridescence of the Gilding is something else that I have not yet captured; it either looks "like a photo of Gold, or simply brownish". But this image I saw on my computer screen; I must have scanned it long ago, not great, but readable.

It is very thick ragpaper; an error can be seen where a scraping tool was used to remove the ink and correct it.
I surely don't like the idea of setting up a new computer (or buying one). It will take a whole day to set up a new satellite with Hughes proprietary software/ Hardware, and transfer the old computer files to the new unit. A series of intense low pressure "lightning Storms" with cannon like Thunder confused my Television Box to that satellite - there is a great deal if iron in this soil, and it even played with my Gate when the lightning struck hardest nearby. Scared my little Mastiff it was so loud! I hope this one can be fixed.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:51 am

I was really pleased to obtain a 1634 Anno Domini Graeca - Latinum Spelling & Grammar book. It is a Beautifully Bound book, Gilded, and makes a nice "mirror" reference book to the original Latin. I do not like to use "modern" Latin, or Ecclisiastical Latin, since both are essentially Latin words read in Italian without following the Rules of Declension that makes Original, Early Latin so exacting. So, I have been making certain that even books from the 16th & 17th Centuries A.D. are written in the original manner. It has been great fun to read the originals, and learn details left out or distorted by later editions. I notice many misspellings of relatively common words in use today, and their "evolving" pronunciation. Meanwhile, I have been finding Classics in the "correct" Latin, many are much newer than I expected; it appears those in Academia and The Classics tended to continue in the original Latin. So many different versions (5 or 6 at least), are jumbled and NOT conveying texts as beautifully as the Golden Age still does. I ordered several books, most 1st Editions, but I want to review them before listing them here. The "Dead" language is very, very much alive. It does require a great deal of review for me; it has been decades since I studied Latin in an Academic Setting, though I have tried now and in the past to keep it fresh in my mind; now for more grammar and vocabulary. A Beautiful and Exacting language. Again, my computer is
acting like this may be the end. I have an IT fellow coming out "soon". Maybe then I can share these images with you. Very nice.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:07 am

It has been awhile since I have found a really nice example of Religious Documents for my library, but this was worth the wait.
An Unbound Copy - something I have very few examples of, "Titus Flavius Josephus, a Roman Jew who is one of the most famous Historians of that era". He was born in 37-38 AD, and died in 100 AD. His writings are very popular, and I am fortunate to have found this piece. This man and his work are popular in Theology and History because what Joesphus wrote was the result of those he spoke with who were alive at the time of the Christ, and his subsequent execution.

It consists of a Frontboard and a Rearboard made of leather-covered Wood; the Book is not bound, and the uniquely numbered pages are loose between these boards, which are tied with a tightly woven cord built into the Front & Rear Boards. There is no Spine.

The Book was created from writings by Josephus, and is a combination of Written Titled Pages and very crudely printed page bodies, with some very Beautiful Artwork in Black & Blue Inks and Gold, all of which are intact. This Book appears to be in "Volumes", and the exact date(s) are hard to be absolutely certain of. "MCCXXVII" is the only date that appears on a Frontspiece, and the Volumes Pages. It is in Early Latin, and marked as created in Paris. All of the pages are there, and each page is complete with notes in the margin. It is written on vellum.

A very interesting and Historic Piece; and a wonderful Historical addition.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:01 am

This is a little off topic, but I think it is interesting, and I hope, insightful.

Reading in the original Latin is a wonderful way to understand why this "dead" language is not that dead at all. There have been times when I have heard some cliché so often that the very word or phrase had become a cliché in itself. To write that or say it is cumbersome in English, but a very old phrase in Latin says it with a little hint of poetry. The phrase "Cambre repetita mors est, translates in a literal way to "Reheated cabbage is Death". I dislike cabbage, and reheating must make it even worse, but I know that reheating it will not kill me.
There is a subtlety to so much of early Latin that makes it an Ideal language for story telling, since the word order is not important, only that the correct declension form on the ending of specific words of grammar, namely nouns and verbs, matter. So you may save a name for last in a sentence to give suspense, or be blunt or bold by saying an action or series of actions, as long as the correct word forms are used. Scientia potentia or "Knowledge is Power" is a good example.

But back to the horrid cabbage. The real meaning is not that the cabbage, when reheated will kill you. But instead, the same dish served over (and over) IS the ultimate cliché. So, "Cambre repetita" said in a way like "oh no, not that again", is very like saying "(the) Ultimate cliché". I know it will take me many years to catch up on what I now wish I had kept learning and using long ago. But the more I learn of Latin, the more I learn of English details, understand more quickly the Phylum or some genus-species name, and the meaning of it, and much, much more.

I think one error that I can hopefully remedy is to re-learn to read (and speak properly) in the original Latin again in the era and style of Iulius Augustas Caesar, when some of the greatest poems and stories and History ever written were done so in such a lovely, exacting language. By the way, you will likely be surprised to learn HOW the Caesar above is pronounced as (he) and that era would have. There is such little time and always so much more to do; in my case it left no time for extra Latin, except some study to learn the forms and Declensions so alien to an English speaker, and reading a little more and learning Axioms and Proverbs to start with, which is, by the way, a very useful method to learn with. But STUDY STUDY STUDY!
I share this example with you, for there are so many phrases that to my mind have become "Ultimate Clichés" with no better way to say so than with a slight disgust, "Cambre repetita".

When Latin was an absolutely required language, think of what vistas were open to any scholar who read fluently; I did start Latin in Junior High, and High School, but by university, my time went increasingly to research, and of course jobs to pay the bills. If I had somehow moved certain classes around, or continued after obtaining the degrees I was after, I could now read more quickly, and no doubt pick up on the levels of humor and storytelling I miss, but I devote several hours a day now. I do not sleep much, so at night I review the work of that day.

There are several forms of Latin taught today, but only the Original Latin will do for my purposes; it is by its nature the Correct form, it has only been simplified and dumbed down over the centuries, and only the Original is so very precise, and has such possibilities. Anyway, I am increasingly able to read again from these wonderful olde Books and manuscripts. It is fulfilling. Vivendo Discimus.
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Re: thinking on Academia, Learning, and Mortality

Postby semisynthetic » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:07 am

DISCE QUASI SEMPER VICTURUS VIVE QUASI CRAS MORITURUS

This sign was and remains, above my Laboratory Office door. The loss of so many who matter, before I had even reached this point, caused me, at least in some part, to have this sign made and placed above the door. As time passes, and my sense of my own mortality (increasingly) comes to mind at times; I thought I'd share it here.

Translated from the Original Latin;
"Learn as if you will live Forever; Live as if you will die Tomorrow".

(I had once placed "CARPE NOCTUM", but it was misunderstood - some in the Lab thought I meant them to work all their nights! ("Seize the Night"). In other words, grab some fun while you can!)...

The final sign was never intended to be morbid, just the opposite! Watching the Graduate Students, and remembering my own working hours and dedication to what I still love, Medicinal Design and Synthesis, never meant one had to drown in it without having a Wonderful Life outside Academia and their Specialty. It is too easy to get lost in important work and miss out on oft much more important play.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:13 am

Just a couple of things of possible interest:

1). "(The) Naked Lunch"; William S. Burroughs; 1st Ed. Paris; very nice. w/ outer cover. 1959.

2). "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"; William Shirer; 1st Edition w/ outer cover; (I have a 1st Ed. copy already, but this one is cleanly autographed). (spare); Very nice. 1960.
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Re: 16th and 17th Century European Religious documents

Postby semisynthetic » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:36 am

.
Another relatively new book; Maury, 1860 A.D.; "Astrologié et Occult"; Dreams and their importance to mental and physical health. This was an era when Science was generally known as "Natural Philosophy", and the gap between Sleep and the Waking World held to the Occult. In French, a Beautifully bound 1st Ed. - Years ahead of Freud. Printed in Paris. The paper is not of high quality, but the binding is tight and firm; Ex Libris (a German Physician).

Image
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