Le Tigre

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Muscles
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Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

fucking in my opinion
le tigre
bikini kill
are the most innovative artists of the last 10 years
fucking out of tune vocals
out of sync
out of punk
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Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhPorOU9qk LE TIGRE - EAU D' BEDROOM DANCING
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Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

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jadams501
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by jadams501 »

I had to review one of their albums a few years ago, and hadn't heard of them, and must say I was rather unimpressed.

I respect craft and skill, and they seemed to be riding along solely on attitude and the pretense of being "real." Too many other things to listen to for me to make time for that.
Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

its possible.
i like the fact that is rather shit
dont like a lot of polished stuff
i like mistakes
sort of makes me think about it more
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Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

did you listen to the BIKINI KILL stuff?

bit more raw.
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Minky
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Re: Le Tigre

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Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

haha ! classic !
cool shmool ! hahaha ! i love it!
2 minutes long ! genius !
love this sort of thing !
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jadams501
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by jadams501 »

Muscles wrote:did you listen to the BIKINI KILL stuff?

bit more raw.
I listened to the Le Tigre album that had the two women kinda dressed up on either side of a guy. That's all I remember.
marcvolta
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by marcvolta »

That guy in the middle of the women is actually another woman.
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by shalloboi »

that record was also their worst one.
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by toomilk »

marcvolta wrote:That guy in the middle of the women is actually another woman.
BRILLIANT OBSERVATION.

If you believe that the member is a man then they are doing their job. If you can think that a "woman" is a "man" then what do those respective definitions actually mean? What about people who fall in between those categories?

I like Bikini Kill and Le Tigre in the sense that Bill O'Reilly likes conservatism -- I will blindly support them, dumb myself down, and attack anyone who doesn't agree with me (in hindsight, that's a joke and the things I'm saying are actually true). They are really, really fun live and it's Kathleen Fucking Hanna. Like it or not, she has done more for women regarding the types of music we like than anyone else in history. Not liking her is like saying you don't like Martin Luther King Jr because you aren't a Christian. He was a Christian, but he did a lot for people despite religion, race, or sex. (People can argue the latter, but this isn't the place for that...ugh).

They might not have been the first, but Le Tigre and Kathleen Hanna specifically have been extremely important in the development of women's music outside of the top 40. "Rebel Girl" is an extremely important song in "Alt" music. What does its place in Guitar Hero mean? Well, I don't really know right now, but at least it's out there for people to listen to and dissect. That means a lot. Why was punk music a "dude"-centric genre before Bikini Kill, Bratmobile, and The Slits? And why was it still that way? Why did Black Flag sing a song like "Slip it In" while they had a female bassist? I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just saying that we all need to be aware of these things when listening to music.

Maybe we'll open up a discussion on how Jason only had women backing him and Doggen on the acoustic mainlines tour...*


*I'm not trying to start 'shit', I'm just trying to get people to think about it for what it's objectively worth. I've thought about it and accepted it on the terms that he is "mimicking older artists" who did the same thing. To me that makes it somewhat acceptable. Some other people may have some very very different thoughts and we should be open to that. Where is the Spectrum girl (ice cream girl???) when you need her?!?

I think this is something that has never been addressed on this forum before (or not that I know of).
Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

yes...listening to bands that have men.
is like watching sports.
i dont want to high 5 a bunch of dickheads
i dont care about sports
and i dont care about some dude playing guitar
making the i am amazing on guitar face
all bullshit really
so nice to hear what these girls have to say
great point milk.
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jadams501
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by jadams501 »

toomilk wrote:
marcvolta wrote:That guy in the middle of the women is actually another woman.
BRILLIANT OBSERVATION.

If you believe that the member is a man then they are doing their job. If you can think that a "woman" is a "man" then what do those respective definitions actually mean? What about people who fall in between those categories?
Um, OR it could be that I was sent a promo CD and the only artwork I saw at the time was a scratchy black & white xerox thumbnail. And that when I was unimpressed by the album I didn't bother to look carefully at the artwork when I saw it in stores. I think you're giving the gender-bending gimmick far more brainpower than they really put into it, and far more weight than it actually deserves. I couldn't care less who they want to sleep with or which bathroom they want to use -- just give me some well-crafted tasteful music. Which they didn't, on that LP at least.
toomilk wrote:I like Bikini Kill and Le Tigre... They are really, really fun live and it's Kathleen Fucking Hanna. Like it or not, she has done more for women regarding the types of music we like than anyone else in history. Not liking her is like saying you don't like Martin Luther King Jr because you aren't a Christian. He was a Christian, but he did a lot for people despite religion, race, or sex. (People can argue the latter, but this isn't the place for that...ugh).

They might not have been the first, but Le Tigre and Kathleen Hanna specifically have been extremely important in the development of women's music outside of the top 40. "Rebel Girl" is an extremely important song in "Alt" music. What does its place in Guitar Hero mean? Well, I don't really know right now, but at least it's out there for people to listen to and dissect. That means a lot. Why was punk music a "dude"-centric genre before Bikini Kill, Bratmobile, and The Slits? And why was it still that way? Why did Black Flag sing a song like "Slip it In" while they had a female bassist? I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just saying that we all need to be aware of these things when listening to music.
"More for women than anyone else in history"? That's hyperbole. Whatever her influence is, it's far less than Loretta Lynn / Nancy Sinatra / Janis Joplin, who in their time were pioneers for singing material that was sassy, individualistic, and combative rather than the domesticated fare women were expected to perform. And before them, there were Ma Rainey and Bessie Smith and any number of 1920s Flapper singers who stretched the boundaries of what it was commonly acceptable for women to sing. And before that there were opera singers performing roles that were pretty intense by today's standards. Whatever you think of Hanna, she's a link in a chain and certainly not a figure of unique historical importance.

Re: Guitar Hero, I don't think inclusion in a video game can be counted as a watershed in feminist history. There are girls who like to thrash around and headbang and think of themselves as dangerous subversives, so including a loud song called "Rebel Girl" is an easy way to pander to that market niche. It seems more like an example of appropriation and repurposing out of context than any kind of breakthrough.

As far as punk goes, I just don't see it as a huge leap forward that some women caught up with men in terms of nihilistic screaming about their dissolute lifestyles of drug abuse and general emotional immaturity. Men and women generally have different hormones that affect them differently during adolescence (gender is not, as some try to argue, completely culturally constructed), and testosterone and other brain chemicals that men have more of make them generally more prone to aggression, moshing, and pounding loud music. It doesn't mean there's no place for women in punk, but I don't think the predominance of men can be chalked up to exclusionary behavior. And the sexism of some of the material seems linked to the adolescent mentality of most of the genre.
toomilk wrote:Maybe we'll open up a discussion on how Jason only had women backing him and Doggen on the acoustic mainlines tour...*

*I'm not trying to start 'shit', I'm just trying to get people to think about it for what it's objectively worth. I've thought about it and accepted it on the terms that he is "mimicking older artists" who did the same thing. To me that makes it somewhat acceptable. Some other people may have some very very different thoughts and we should be open to that. Where is the Spectrum girl (ice cream girl???) when you need her?!?
Black female gospel singers commonly utilize a certain sound palette that is both familiar and effective, and evoke other artists and works from the past. Drafting in men or a large number of people from a different background would likely have undermined the effect, so I find it a bit troubling that you're saying it's only "somewhat acceptable" -- as if he really should have hired some different singers from various backgrounds. I have no problem with Spiritualized being all men or some other group being all women, or with other groups being all Chinese or Hispanic or WASP or Iranian. The expectation that every assemblage of people MUST be diverse, and the subsequent bean-counting, is becoming as big a problem as the residual sexism and bigotry in society.
Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

hmm...i will have to digest these things and get back to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyBR-M2YvU DECEPTACON- LE TIGRE

the lyrics are not coming from a man.
the lyrics are coming from someone very strange
i like it !
she uses the words linoleum floor in this one
never heard that before
im a fan
because i like it
i never thought about these other things
i was just being flippant
cause its fun
but the idea that they were part of a movement
is cool
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Already There
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Already There »

jadams501 wrote: As far as punk goes, I just don't see it as a huge leap forward that some women caught up with men in terms of nihilistic screaming about their dissolute lifestyles of drug abuse and general emotional immaturity. Men and women generally have different hormones that affect them differently during adolescence (gender is not, as some try to argue, completely culturally constructed), and testosterone and other brain chemicals that men have more of make them generally more prone to aggression, moshing, and pounding loud music. It doesn't mean there's no place for women in punk, but I don't think the predominance of men can be chalked up to exclusionary behavior. And the sexism of some of the material seems linked to the adolescent mentality of most of the genre.
I generally agree with most of what you said, but there I think you cannot generalize like that. It's an issue I keep thinking about myself, but it's not all black and white, you know... I think that's the real problem. Either you're male or female, that's a bit too simple. By definition "gender" is a social construct because I think that's what it is about. A "role" in society, if you like. I wouldn't disagree that the hormone levels(!) vary between men and women, but also within the sex.
jadams501 wrote: Black female gospel singers commonly utilize a certain sound palette that is both familiar and effective, and evoke other artists and works from the past. Drafting in men or a large number of people from a different background would likely have undermined the effect, so I find it a bit troubling that you're saying it's only "somewhat acceptable" -- as if he really should have hired some different singers from various backgrounds. I have no problem with Spiritualized being all men or some other group being all women, or with other groups being all Chinese or Hispanic or WASP or Iranian. The expectation that every assemblage of people MUST be diverse, and the subsequent bean-counting, is becoming as big a problem as the residual sexism and bigotry in society.
That's true though. But that doesn't mean you cannot consider it. You shouldn't try to force it, but...

Another problem is people's different understandings of the issue. A lot of people go towards the extremes and that's a problem, really, so people will never come to some kind of consent. I think it's just very important to be aware of these issues and find an effective way to go about it in the future. (I personally agree with those who say that you have to start thinking differently, finding new definitions, all that, it's not all about language, it is about how we define it...)
W: What are we supposed to do with that?
M: Eat it.
W: Eat it? Fucker’s alive.
M: Yeah, you’ve got to kill it.
W: Me? I’m the firelighter and fuel collector.

Gigs 2010: http://www.last.fm/user/Colin_in_Mexico/events/2010
Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwh7iilWrp0 BIKINI KILL - I LIKE FUCKING
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Minky
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Minky »

Oh yeah!!!
Muscles
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Muscles »

I like Kathleen Hanna cause unlike a John Lennon or a Bruce Springsteen
like artist . She slips in stuff...like mumbling it or screaming it and you
can't figure it out but if you pay attention she is saying more radical things.
More abstract and in that way its more interesting to me.
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Minky
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Re: Le Tigre

Post by Minky »

+1
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