Re: The Dylan Thread
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:01 am
I feel like I may be in the minority for preferring the studio Isis... it's like a mythological journey with Bob.
Nope - me too. It's an incredible track, and it was probably that song (and the album it's on) that really got me listening to Dylan really.jadams501 wrote:I feel like I may be in the minority for preferring the studio Isis... it's like a mythological journey with Bob.
angelsighs wrote:nah the live version of Isis wins! they do have a very different feel- the studio version is more of a travelogue or journey, the live version is more physical and visceral. particularly the version on Biograph which is mixed just right (a whirlwind of sound)
Joni Mitchell...
The singer-songwriter identifies Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan as her only contemporaries, but also criticises Dylan for not being “musically gifted” and for alleged plagiarism.
“I like a lot of Bob’s songs,” says Mitchell. “Musically he’s not very gifted, he’s borrowed his voice from a lot of old hillbillies. He’s got a lot of borrowed things.”
Addressing her claim that Dylan is a “plagiarist”, Mitchell explains: “It’s not like I outed him. He stole all of his lines out of a Japanese hoodlum’s novel. There was a lawsuit impending, but it got dropped. He told me ‘I haven’t written a song in years.’ I said, ‘What’re you talking about? Who’s writing them, then?’ He came down to craft.”
She claims she's not at all disappointed in Dylan, though, praising him for inventing "a character to deliver his songs… Because you can do things with that character. It’s a mask of sorts… To sustain a gift for a long time is rare."
it is from the transcript from a cbc interview. it was a horrible interview. she spent the whole time telling the interviewer how she was the greatest ever- a true original blah blah and having snipes at other artists. the dylan thing seems to come up in every interview i see with her "“Bob [Dylan] is not authentic at all. He’s a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I.” — Joni Mitchell, Los Angeles Times, April 22, 2010". it also came up in ian and sylvia's autobiography, calling him a 'fake' etc.BzaInSpace wrote:Where's this from?
I ask as it sounds like some minor point of an interview that's been blown up to create a bit of controversy.
To be honest though, there's nothing there that anyone can really disagree with - Bob's never denied how much he borrowed and stolen ("Love & Theft") of others, look at how often it's discussed in Chronicles. From a pure musicology viewpoint his basic song structures are neither complex or unique - most of them are straight up cribbed from the blues.
I should add though that most of the greatest rock 'n' roll ever made could be hit by these "allegations" too.
I know he didn't write the copy but that was a head scratcher - everyone knows that American beer is the best!spzretent wrote:Sorry Bob.
I'd rather have Germany build my car than brew my beer.
i rather enjoyed that...runaway wrote:Time to talk about the elephant yet?
quite like that! it kinda suits his current voice as he's not having to strain so much. new album could be an interesting entry in his catalogue, if it's all covers!The Dr wrote:new dylan song (cover) from forthcoming new album 'shadows in the night'
Thursday, 23 September 2010
Oxnard 'Time Out Of Mind' sessions
As discussed in Clinton Heylin's 'Still On the Road'....seems like there was an earlier version of the album recorded before the January 1997 sessions at Criteria.
September 1996 Oxnard, CA seems to have produced initial recordings of the following, none of which are on the released album:
Dirt Road Blues
Can't Wait
Mississippi
Highlands
All I Ever Loved Is You
Dreamin' Of You
Million Miles
Not Dark Yet
Red River Shore
Standing In The Doorway
Only 2 of these: the Bootleg Series 8, disc 3 version of 'Mississippi' with the different lyrics, and 'Can't Wait' from disc 1 are from the Oxnard TOOM.
All the others remain unheard.
The Dr wrote:"Can you imagine talking to Bob Dylan about getting on the fucking radio? When we finished ‘Highlands’, one of the managers came out, and he said, ‘Well, Bob, have you got a short version of that song?’
Dylan said: ‘That was the short version.’
weirdly 'not dark yet' always reminds me of 'bloodline' by ultra vivid scene.angelsighs wrote:listened to Time Out Of Mind myself over the weekend. just reaffirmed that it may well be my favourite Dylan album of them all. even the more formulaic bluesy rockers are elevated by that gorgeous swampy sound from Lanois. and the lyrics are so amazing, so fatalistic, and unusually for Dylan, quite moving.
angelsighs wrote:listened to Time Out Of Mind myself over the weekend. just reaffirmed that it may well be my favourite Dylan album of them all.
Curious to hear your breakdown of the great and not so great.angelsighs wrote:Blood on The Tracks is very overrated in my opinion. some great tracks and some not so great.
angelsighs wrote:...in my opinion there's some bluesy filler...
WHAT! For me 'Meet Me In The Morning' is the best song on there!The Dr wrote: ...meet me in the morning is dull in my opinion...
i actually prefer this versionBzaInSpace wrote:(Re: Blood On The Tracks)
angelsighs wrote:...in my opinion there's some bluesy filler...WHAT! For me 'Meet Me In The Morning' is the best song on there!The Dr wrote: ...meet me in the morning is dull in my opinion...
But I think in Dylan's latter era he's been at his best - strictly my opinion - when he's just doing versions of blues songs. On the last few albums in particular - 'Early Roman Kings', 'Rollin' & Tumblin'...
i think desire is weaker- the strongest two songs 'cup of coffee' and 'sara' are the only two that he wrote alone. aparently (according to d) levy wrote all of the lyrics for joey (could explain how crass it is) and although i love the narrative of isis (one of my favourute dylan songs) and the fun of mozambique, i think you may have (angelsighs) hit the nail on the head in saying bott is a deeply personal album, not only to d but to the listener. i went through a messy breakup recently (just about over it) and cannot stop listening to bottangelsighs wrote:sorry, listened to Meet Me In The Morning after reading this thread and it's still dull. Idiot Wind however still blows me away!
Desire is the more consistent album I reckon, perhaps without the peaks of BOOT. I just love the sound of Desire- the violin and Emmylou's backing vocals threading through it, the superb rhythm section with the bass playing popping out melodically all the time. and Dylan is in fine voice- his big keening 70s voice. it really seems like a slightly ragged band playing in a room.
the only thing it's lacking is the personal touch of BOOT. that album has the overraching narrative that it's Dylan pouring his heart out over his divorce (which I think is kind of exaggerated, but that's a separate story). Desire is more about scene-setting, different characters and situations. it's kind of a travelogue.
how are people finding Tempest a couple of years down the line?
Agreed - nicely put! Desire: yep, it's the overall sound of that record isn't it - wild and untamed. I like that band as much as any he played with. I know live it went a bit Wall of Sound style but certainly in the studio it's streamlined and raw... and second that amazing violin playing by Scarlett Riviera.angelsighs wrote: Desire is the more consistent album I reckon, perhaps without the peaks of BOOT. I just love the sound of Desire- the violin and Emmylou's backing vocals threading through it, the superb rhythm section with the bass playing popping out melodically all the time. and Dylan is in fine voice- his big keening 70s voice. it really seems like a slightly ragged band playing in a room.
the only thing it's lacking is the personal touch of BOOT. that album has the overraching narrative that it's Dylan pouring his heart out over his divorce (which I think is kind of exaggerated, but that's a separate story). Desire is more about scene-setting, different characters and situations. it's kind of a travelogue.
how are people finding Tempest a couple of years down the line?
Really? I don't think of Modern Times in that regard at all. It's all set and setting isn't it - that album for me sums up a pretty torrid and slightly unhinged time of my life (see also Riot City Blues) and therefore I have a huge amount of love for that record simply due to the endless wild memories attached to it. It feels like a lifetime ago but that album can work like a time machine for me. I emphasise it's all positives feeling I get from that album - at it's best it's just loose rolling blues. 'Rolling & Tumbling' is fucking incredible (even better 2-3% pitched up) and for me the best ever version of that particular song.The Dr wrote:...as for tempest- i listened to it a lot- saw him live playing most of the album and have been listening to it ever since. i still think it is (bar roll on john- i have no interest in lennon or the beatles) a brilliant album- even better, maybe, than modern times as the album of post 9/11 (love and theft came out 21st sept 2001)
Put the joints down and get back to science, hippies...The Dr wrote:
Five Swedish scientists have confessed that they have been quoting Bob Dylan lyrics in research articles and are running a wager on who can squeeze the most in before retirement...
modern times is a great album and i didn't think this era d would top it. it is a very sweet album (mostly), very sentimental. i would say it's a good album to listen to at night (if you know what i mean) but with tempset it starts with a deceptively jaunty meoldy that goes into a song about trains (also deceptive as the overall mofit of the album is dark, dark, darkness), then is is a very simple love song that took me a while to appreciate it's delicateness. narrow way is a brilliant blues with great lyrics that grabs me more than, say, 'Rolling & Tumbling' does- i never really got into dylan's version of that. long and wasted years i don't really like bu maybe it is too close to the bone for me right now. who knows? pay in blood is a wonderful growling attack on the concieted 'i'll give you justice, i'll fatten your purse, show me your moral virtue first...i pay in blood, but not my own' . scarlet town is a beautiful painting of a town- the good and bad (it has attention to detail such as 'the streets have names you can't pronounce). early roman kings brings the early roman kings into the 21st C in a delightful satire about how people are the same now as then, tin angel is a great folk song (think gypsy davey by woody) with a brillant narrative. this is dylan 'back' writng great narratives, this is what the other albums have not really had on, since prehaps highlands. tempest (sorry AS!) is a masterpiece of whimsy and seriousnessBzaInSpace wrote:
Really? I don't think of Modern Times in that regard at all. It's all set and setting isn't it - that album for me sums up a pretty torrid and slightly unhinged time of my life (see also Riot City Blues) and therefore I have a huge amount of love for that record simply due to the endless wild memories attached to it. It feels like a lifetime ago but that album can work like a time machine for me. I emphasise it's all positives feeling I get from that album - at it's best it's just loose rolling blues. 'Rolling & Tumbling' is fucking incredible (even better 2-3% pitched up) and for me the best ever version of that particular song.
I do wonder if anyone else hears it this way though. Guess that what makes it all interesting...
Tempest. Not listened to it really enough but bar one song - another blues - it didn't hit me. The OTT reviews were entertaining enough though. Deserves another spin at some point.