Grateful Dead

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spunder
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Grateful Dead

Post by spunder »

runcible wrote:Endless Grateful Dead live recordings.
it is mental how virtually every grateful dead gig can be downloaded ....and quite a high proportion are of very good sound quality. have you got any of the 'acid test' reels.?
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by runcible »

spunder wrote:it is mental how virtually every grateful dead gig can be downloaded ....and quite a high proportion are of very good sound quality. have you got any of the 'acid test' reels.?
Dunno, I only have one 1966 show. Redcloud is the man for expertise on the Dead, I am a mere novice. There can be few more knowledgeable people than him about this sort of stuff.

The shows I have are all of live album quality - it's incredible that such an archive of one of the most important psychedelic bands exists.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by jadams501 »

Happy Mondays - Live

To my surprise, actually a really fantastic live album. The Mondays seem like they should be terrible -- certainly the individual elements of the band are not impressive -- but they are so much more than the sum of their parts and really capture the time and place.

Re: Grateful Dead, I've only heard the decidedly non-psychedelic American Beauty album. I've never been all that interested in them, but have been reading The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test and am perhaps more open to them than I've been in the past. What would you all recommend as a good second foray into the band?
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by runcible »

I saw the Mondays a few times - both before they made it big and after. They could be utterly amazing and get into such a brilliant groove - Wrote For Luck the obvious example.

In my opinion you have the Grateful Dead's greatest studio album already. I didn't get American Beauty at first but after a few listens it's become one of my favourite ever albums. The Dead aren't psychedelic in the way you might imagine - there are few crazy effects and they don't play psych in the conventional style. Instead you get ballads, rock and roll, emotive country rock as well as high tempo country rock, but then they'll find time to wig out spectacularly and noodle at various moments of their choosing - these sections can really get into the depths of your head. Many people just don't 'get' it and I must confess it took me a long time to understand what they were doing. I saw them in 1990 and although I enjoyed it I didn't really get it. No idea why it's hit me now but almost every time I go the stereo at the moment I find myself choosing the Dead.

Also - crucially - major Deadheads have no time for the studio albums. It's all about the live sound. An album doesn't have enough time for them to get into their zone. A 3 minute pop song (like 'Sugar Magnolia') can be stretched to 10, 15 or 20 minutes if they felt like it. And if you go from era to another and listen to the way they re-interpret their own music it can be amazing. So I'd recommend 'Europe 72', an immense triple live album crammed full of nuggets. I have older brothers who were at the London shows on that tour... :mrgreen:
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by spunder »

jadams501 wrote:Re: Grateful Dead, I've only heard the decidedly non-psychedelic American Beauty album. I've never been all that interested in them, but have been reading The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test and am perhaps more open to them than I've been in the past. What would you all recommend as a good second foray into the band?
well i really recommend the first album, really cool songs that were used as launch pads for their early live shows and Garcias gibson sg sounds ace. Dicks Picks 22 is a good '68 show and the 10 cd live at the fillmore east set from 69 can be 'acquired' online......there used to be a blog called 'jolly joker' that kept getting taken down but this seemed to have every show from 66 through to 78 at one stage. i got LOADS of good shows from this ....dunno if the blog is still going under a different name though.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by angelsighs »

I've tried the Grateful Dead myself too but haven't quite got it. I've got Live/Dead and although it's got it's moments it seems a bit spidery and thin sounding...like its building towards something but never quite gets there. I was expecting something a bit more bombastic maybe. they certainly don't have the crescendos that a lot of psych/jam bands have.
I think I love the idea of the Dead more than the reality maybe- I do have a high tolerance for jamming & noodling and love the idea of a band using their sets as launchpads for improv while still keeping some elements of rootsiness or soul in there somewhere. also love the fact that they lasted so damn long.. a very unique phenomenon of sorts. I presume there is a lot of debate among Deadheads on the best period of the band and how their live sets evolved over the years?

maybe I should keep trying going from what you've said runcible

they are psychedelic but it's true that it does seem to come from the ebb and flow of the songs rather than any crazy effects or anything. but isnt there one of the early albums which is them having a crack at the whole psych/studiocraft thing?

don't forget there is also archive.org who have THOUSANDS of GD shows for download.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by runcible »

On the Dead we need Redcloud's invaluable input here. Come on dude - your expertise would be most useful!

I love the fact that they change songs so much. I have several versions of Bob Weir's 'Playing In The Band' - all about 5-6 minutes - but I got sent a show recently where it goes on for almost 20 minutes. There's a lengthy wig-out in the middle of it of course.

The most tripped out stuff tended to take place as the opening sequencer after the interval (with 3 - 4 1/2 hour sets an interval is pretty much essential) and they'd really mess with sound and effects, all designed to scramble the audience's brains.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by spzretent »

runcible wrote:On the Dead we need Redcloud's invaluable input here. Come on dude - your expertise would be most useful!

I love the fact that they change songs so much. I have several versions of Bob Weir's 'Playing In The Band' - all about 5-6 minutes - but I got sent a show recently where it goes on for almost 20 minutes. There's a lengthy wig-out in the middle of it of course.

The most tripped out stuff tended to take place as the opening sequencer after the interval (with 3 - 4 1/2 hour sets an interval is pretty much essential) and they'd really mess with sound and effects, all designed to scramble the audience's brains.
I am fairly new to the Dead. I've had American Beauty and Terrapin Station for years. Slowly I have been getting more into them. I was completely oblivious to the fact Dead Heads never listen to studio lps. This was brought to my attention a few weeks ago. Funny part of the conversation was I saw them 5 years before one and 8 years before the other "Dead Heads' that mocked my playing of American Beauty. I still love that record. :oops:
I dont think its a stretch that there are huge Dead fans that are also into Spiritualized. Some people took a right turn to Phish and Pearl Jam and a few took a left turn to bands like Spiritualized. A lot of those "hippie-ish" festivals like Bonaroo have loads of crossover now.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by redcloud »

Ok, long post guys.
spunder wrote: have you got any of the 'acid test' reels.?
I do. I also have some video footage of some acid tests. Ironically, in the past couple weeks I have been listening to almost every single Dead show from 1966 (over 100!). I have narrowed it down to several incredible shows that are extraordinary glimpse into the band. They were, at that time, a completely different band from the 70's era Dead that most of us all know. But, '66 in my opinion was the starting point of what would come later.
runcible wrote:On the Dead we need Redcloud's invaluable input here. Come on dude - your expertise would be most useful!
I'm not sure if I qualify as an expert but I do own a lot of Dead.

It is true that in the studio the band rarely found their groove. I too love a handful of studio LP's from the first record to 'Workingman's Dead/American Beauty'. But the songs came to life when played live. For example, the incredible melancholy of 'Wharf Rat' could never be replicated in the studio nor could the organic nature of their free form explorations be pulled off in the confines of the studio. They needed space to interact not only with one another but the energy from the crowd feeds into many of their performances. Listen to 'Morning Dew' on the studio album and then compare it to the live version form Europe '72 or an ultra slowed down version from 73 or 74 where Jerry's voice pours out soulful emotion and his guitar weeps. It really is magical.

My personal favorite years of the Grateful Dead were 66-72. But, most of my other Dead friends are fans of the 70's era Dead. One friend in particular will argue on any given day that on the whole '74 was better than 72. I disagree, of course, but he personally loves the free form jazz and jammy improv of that year.

By '77 the Dead had become a professional band and were a three headed monster that went out to slay their audience night in night out. Arguably, they were the tightest they had ever been but certainly since the days of their 72 European tour. The entire spring tour of 77 is legendary and everything with the Godchaux's seems to work beautifully (including Donna's harmonies!). I am still in my comfort zone listening to '77 Dead but given a choice I would always choose a '66-72 show over 1977.

For what it is worth this is my short synopsis of their various "eras":

66-67: Crisp, punky, acid infused, lightning speed garage band. Pigpen was the backbone of the band and his R&B staples kept the sets from descending into blissed out Owsley induced anarchy.

68-69: full on psychedelia. Space is being explored! Feb '69 is when the Live/Dead LP was recorded. Garcia is now becoming the backbone of the band.

70-Country rock: extended acoustic & outstanding electric jam sets that are truly magical!

71: back to basics, stripped down rock and roll. I LOVE 71 Dead.

72: THE perfect marriage of the country rock, rock & roll & spacey psych jams

73-74: the roots of a jazzy/spacey improv jam band are beginning to take flight

1977-onwards: They have morphed into a professional rock and roll jam band. Spring tour 1977 is as polished as it gets with the GD (anything from the month of May is legendary with Heads).

1978-onwards: Up and down. Jerry begins using smack again. Autumn/winter of '78 isn't great...dysfunction with the Godchaux's and hard drug use shows cracks in the foundation. New keyboardist (Mydland) was hired in early 79. There are some gems (82 is often noted by Heads but I don't know it well) but the quality shows are harder to find. I rarely listen to anything past 1977.
jadams501 wrote:...have been reading The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test and am perhaps more open to them than I've been in the past. What would you all recommend as a good second foray into the band?
Great book. Over the summer I saw 'Magic Trip', which is the film taken directly from the video footage shot during Kesey/Cassady's Prankster cross-country trip on "Further". Highly recommended

Jadams501...regarding where to go next from 'American Beauty' or 'Workingman's' (assuming you like it)...as I said above, studio Dead is not where you will find prime Dead material. I agree with Runcible's suggestion to pick up Europe '72. But, I also recommend 5/2/70 Harpur College Binghamton, NY that was officially released as "Dick Picks 8". This is a SMOKIN' show! Another album that is easy to get ahold of is "Two From The Vault" which beautifully highlights two shows from LA in 1968. It too is an incredible show. If you like this stuff then the endless GD vaults are open for you to explore even further. My breakdown above of their various "eras" may also help you pinpoint years you would like to explore.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by spunder »

with regard to the live europe 72 album....i've heard its good but also avoided because i read there was a lot of overdubbing recorded in a studio after the gigs....is this true?
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by scratch »

I guess you don´t mean the full version then.. :P

73 cds for 450 $ http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe ... recordings
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by runcible »

scratch wrote:I guess you don´t mean the full version then.. :P

73 cds for 450 $ http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe ... recordings
Ha! No - I saw that box set but I mean the regular 2 CD release. A CD of every show on the tour is crazy shit!
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by jadams501 »

redcloud wrote: Jadams501...regarding where to go next from 'American Beauty' or 'Workingman's' (assuming you like it)...as I said above, studio Dead is not where you will find prime Dead material. I agree with Runcible's suggestion to pick up Europe '72. But, I also recommend 5/2/70 Harpur College Binghamton, NY that was officially released as "Dick Picks 8". This is a SMOKIN' show! Another album that is easy to get ahold of is "Two From The Vault" which beautifully highlights two shows from LA in 1968. It too is an incredible show. If you like this stuff then the endless GD vaults are open for you to explore even further. My breakdown above of their various "eras" may also help you pinpoint years you would like to explore.
Extremely helpful, redcloud! From your descriptions i think 68, 70, & 72 sound most my cup of tea. I will track them down and, when i've had the chance to listen, report back.

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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by redcloud »

scratch wrote:I guess you don´t mean the full version then.. :P

73 cds for 450 $ http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe ... recordings
They all sold out very quickly and are now fetching top dollar on eBay.
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Re: What Are You Listening To Now?

Post by runcible »

redcloud wrote:
scratch wrote:I guess you don´t mean the full version then.. :P

73 cds for 450 $ http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe ... recordings
They all sold out very quickly and are now fetching top dollar on eBay.
Wow - I didn't expect that as they are so expensive!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by good dope/good fun »

Wow.
Good topic.
I grew up on the Dead. Can't tell you how many shows I saw throughout high school and college. Some real great times as the scene was truly one-of-a-kind. Sorta miss those days, but indeed there is a legacy of music that is almost all available 40 years later.

I downloaded that 73 disk Europe '72 Tour last week. Amazing how you can click on a link and have 70 cd's worth of music in your hard drive in about an hour. Back when I was seeing the Dead, it was all about B&P's - which was blanks (tapes) and postage to either a taper or a trader, and you would hopefully get those blank tapes back within a few weeks filled with musical goodness. Oh how technology has changed that.

On the '72 tour, the last show of that tour from 1972-05-26 is ridiculous.
And yes, the Harpur show from '70 is without a doubt a classic, but they recently released from their Road Trips series 1970-05-15 which IMO surpasses the Harpur College show. Listen to that I Know You Rider and New Speedway Boogie and you'll hear why.

And then there is always 1977-05-08, which is considered by many to be the best Grateful Dead show of all time, although some believe the show to be a complete hoax and fabrication made up by the government and the FBI. Do a search on it and you'll see.

Good topic.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

good dope/good fun wrote:W
On the '72 tour, the last show of that tour from 1972-05-26 is ridiculous.
And yes, the Harpur show from '70 is without a doubt a classic, but they recently released from their Road Trips series 1970-05-15 which IMO surpasses the Harpur College show. Listen to that I Know You Rider and New Speedway Boogie and you'll hear why.

And then there is always 1977-05-08, which is considered by many to be the best Grateful Dead show of all time
Agreed on 5/15/70 Fillmore being even better than the Harpur College show. That is amongst my favorite shows! But, I didn't think 5/15 was properly released? My suggestion was for excellent but easily accessible shows that a newbie could get a hold of.

5/8/77 (Ithaca) is definitely a blistering show from 1977. But, ALL of that spring tour is outstanding. Buffalo, Ithaca, Boston, Atlanta, Florida etc. As with 1972, everything just seemed to click. But, as good as they all are...I will still pick 66-72 Dead over '77 any day.

Oh, and their February 1971 week long run of shows in Portchester, NY are brilliant! 2/18, in particular, being a stand-out as it was Mickey's last show for awhile and they also played 'Bertha' for the first time.

There is something about upstate NY that seemed to bring out the best in the band!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

It's moments like this where country rock couldn't sound much better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBAuaJKMOTg
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

Love that footage runcible. From "TV from Tivoli" ('72), I believe.

Here is some classic Dead footage for your enjoyment. The Dead were invited to take part in Hugh Heffner's "Playboy After Dark" tv show in 1969 and were still very much an acid band. Apparently everyone except Pigpen took some acid and also slipped Hugh some LSD so all but Pig are tripping their balls off! 'Mountains of the Moon' is one of my favorite tunes and there are some fabulous live versions captured on tape that segment beautifully into 'Dark Star'. This one goes into a rocking 'St. Stephen' and the band and audience are all clearly having great fun (look at Mickey's face!).

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx6OAfvlxTs
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by jimgraboid »

"There are a few of the Dicks Picks volumes where the jams REALLY take off, totally uplifting stuff"

May I suggest my favorite dicks picks..14!

73' boston music hall, pig had recently died, donna wasnt on tour (pregnant) and no mickey. The band, as a five piece was completely about playing music. Morning dew opener, like redcloud eluded to is just dripping with emotion. What i understand is that the members of the dead were unsure at this point about the direction of the band, and even considered carrying on under a different name. The music is heartfelt and very well played, jerry's singing is stellar, and on the 4th disc is a near 30 minute playing in the band > he's gone, complete with mind left and feedback jams. So basically if u dont like this, than you prolly wont like any dead, and thats ok.

listening to:

do make say think- goodbye enemy airship
jacob fred jazz oddysey- stay gold
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by spzretent »

Nice parcel of several 1968-to 1972 Dead shows. In describing to an expert Deadhead this is "my era".
Just popped in the first one Eastown Theater Detroit 10-24-71.
Thank you Redcloud.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

:D

I thought you would appreciate the Detroit show.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

jimgraboid wrote:"There are a few of the Dicks Picks volumes where the jams REALLY take off, totally uplifting stuff"

May I suggest my favorite dicks picks..14!

73' boston music hall,
Late '73 was showing signs of where the set was headed in '74 (similar to late '69 and the acoustic sets that crept in and became a regular in 1970).

Gotta love 'Playing in the Band'. I think there are some even longer versions than the above show (some nearing the 40 min mark)! Off the top of my head there is one from mid Nov 1973 Pauley Pavillion/Univ of Cali. where they begin with 'Playing in the Band' but then segue into 'Uncle John's Band' > 'Morning Dew' > Uncle John's Band > Playing in the Band'. Seamless and just so perfect!!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

spzretent wrote:Just popped in the first one Eastown Theater Detroit 10-24-71.
Oof - that's a humdinger! Enjoy!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

A friend pointed this illustrated e-book in my direction. I thought a few of you might find this fun to look through (click the grey arrows to move the pages).

http://www.blurb.com/books/2892845
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Dark Star Orchestra

Post by runcible »

Just back from London - with a bit more planning I could haved stayed for Spz tonight but...

We saw Dark Star Orchestra last night. This is a Grateful Dead tribute band - I know that sounds potentially full of disaster but it was anything but. These guys are so damn authentic they sound almost identical to the real thing. The lead guitarist even sings like Garcia and he has captured Garcia's guitar style to a point that doesn't seem possible.

They did a Europe '72 set and basically nailed everything. Musically you'd believe it really was the Dead playing. I stood there in disbelief as they did a FOUR HOUR set which was crammed with so many of my favourite Dead songs, each one done note perfect. The place was quite full and everyone sang slong with gusto to every word so the atmosphere was absolutely brilliant. A much older crowd - generally 40's and 50s but some much older than that - having a great time hearing great music played as it was when the Dead were close to their peak. There wasn't a moment where I was even vaguely bored - a slightly achey back when we left but I was smiling like a good 'un by that point. If you are a fan of the Grateful Dead you won't hear their music played live better than this. It's beyond a mere tribute act as these guys are too good at it as well as being amazing musicians.

One minor note. The Garage is a totally horrible place, mainly for the security and door policy. They won't get a more relaxed and friendly crowd in that place that there was last night. Not even a hint of unpleasantness as everyone had such a great time. But the heavy handed way we were let in with all pockets emptied and a body search was not nice at all, and they were pretty rude to everyone while they did it. Plus their 'no readmission' and 'smoking area' policies were rubbish. We were in there from 6.30 til after 11 and not allowed outside. In the interval people poured to the door to get out for fresh air and to smoke and the security shouted at everyone 'get against that wall if you want to smoke - only 15 out at a time so you'll all have a very long wait' and then physcially pushed people against the wall of the corridor. What a bunch of wankers they were. There is a door to the right of the auditorium which leads to a side street which they easily could have used and monitored for people to get outside but the security were all really rude when asked if people could get some air and just shook their heads 'no'. Another venue added to my shitlist. The punchline is that the Gents toilet was thick with dope smoke and Deadheads standing about openly smoking which made me laugh...

Great night though...
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Post by redcloud »

runcible wrote:
We saw Dark Star Orchestra last night. This is a Grateful Dead tribute band - I know that sounds potentially full of disaster but it was anything but. These guys are so damn authentic they sound almost identical to the real thing. The lead guitarist even sings like Garcia and he has captured Garcia's guitar style to a point that doesn't seem possible.
I know exactly what you mean. My buddy who is a HUGE Dead Head told me about DSO and I too was skeptical. I finally caved in and went and saw them last year. I too expected the worst tribute/karaoke band but instead was blown away by just how good the band were. The first set was great but the second set absolutely killed it and they (the band) and the audience were one massive groove machine flying on the same trip. I was totally blown away and left with a massive smile.

My buddy being such a Dead Head said to me half way through the first set..."I'm thinking this is a '75-78" set. Four brilliant songs into the second set and he then says "Ok, I'm narrowing it down to summer '76". At the end of the show the band announced they had just performed the set from June 18, 1976, Passaic, NJ! Nailed it!

They return to Portland on March 31 and my friend and I have our tickets!

So glad you enjoyed them and that they performed so well for you too.
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Re: Dark Star Orchestra

Post by jadams501 »

runcible wrote:We saw Dark Star Orchestra last night. This is a Grateful Dead tribute band - I know that sounds potentially full of disaster but it was anything but. These guys are so damn authentic they sound almost identical to the real thing. The lead guitarist even sings like Garcia and he has captured Garcia's guitar style to a point that doesn't seem possible.
I saw a Pink Floyd tribute act about ten years ago that was much better than I expected. They were tight, played a bunch of deep cuts, and really captured the spirit of the original. I'd happily see that again.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by jadams501 »

A friend of mine finally convinced me to make time for the "Skull and Roses" set. I've had American Beauty for years, which I like, but given the band's over-the-top psychedelic reputation I was somewhat surprised that most of the album was pretty low key folky country-rock, pretty similar to what the Allman Bros, The Band, Eric Clapton, etc. were up to at the time.

Now I've got Europe '72, so I'm interested to hear if it too is along the same line.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

jadams501 wrote:A friend of mine finally convinced me to make time for the "Skull and Roses" set. I've had American Beauty for years, which I like, but given the band's over-the-top psychedelic reputation I was somewhat surprised that most of the album was pretty low key folky country-rock, pretty similar to what the Allman Bros, The Band, Eric Clapton, etc. were up to at the time.

Now I've got Europe '72, so I'm interested to hear if it too is along the same line.
The skeleton and roses LP (or "skull fuck") was recorded in 1971. This is a year, for some reason, that seems to divide Dead fans. Personally, I LOVE '71 Dead. They stripped it down and just get back to basics and rocked. But, more importantly they are having a lot of fun. Sadly, it was also the beginning of Pig's downfall but it was also the start of what would come in '72 and later on down the line. That said, this LP doesn't reflect the year very well. There are much better shows from '71 that are well worth investigating.

You should enjoy Europe '72 as it is a stone cold classic but it is very different from '71 Dead.

The full-on, psychedelic years for the Dead were 1967-69. '67 being more garage and bluesy while '68-69 were much more serious Owsley, head trip, wig-out jamming.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

I'll defend the Skull Fuck album - some very nice bits including a sublime 'Me and Bobby McGee'. But I agree there are better live recordings than a lot of this. The inclusion of Johnny B Goode is pointless as far as I'm concerned.

I love 72 Dead, when Keith was firmly embedded in the band - his playing on both of the Europe 72 albums is just astonishing at times. But I am enjoying a lot of the 1974 shows you kindly sent me recently. Donna can be shrill but the playing is so relaxed and together it's irresistible. Hearing how they play a different solo or arrangement in familiar songs is amazing - you can't predict what they'll do with a certain song. Playing In The Band could be 6 minutes or maybe they'll play a 45 minute version.

People have a miscoception of the Dead - just as I did - that because of the psychedelic imagery, the tie-die, the acid and the whole Haight-Ashbury thing they are going to be some majorly tripped out noisy band. There is hardly any Dead that is noisy but a good bit that is psychedelic. When you realise they are a rock and roll band with a penchant for country and bluegrass and then hear just how well they play it it starts to make sense. Took me over 25 years to work it out and over the last 3 years I have played their music more than any other band by some distance.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

runcible wrote:
People have a miscoception of the Dead - just as I did - that because of the psychedelic imagery, the tie-die, the acid and the whole Haight-Ashbury thing they are going to be some majorly tripped out noisy band. There is hardly any Dead that is noisy but a good bit that is psychedelic. When you realise they are a rock and roll band with a penchant for country and bluegrass and then hear just how well they play it it starts to make sense. Took me over 25 years to work it out and over the last 3 years I have played their music more than any other band by some distance.
This is why this site is one of, if not THE best music forums. We can discuss so many different things and the people who frequent this site know what they are talking about, love music and have a keen knowledge and are willing to share. Long may it continue!

You have absolutely nailed it on the head, Mark. Keeping in mind that Jerry came to the guitar as a banjo player it means that not only was he new to the electrified rock scene but he also approached guitar playing very differently than most of his peers. Pigpen was also the main dude back in the early days and he came from a blues background while Phil came from a classical and jazz background. All of these interests greatly contributed to the sound of the Dead. When the band were becoming more of Jerry and Phil's vision you can see the country and jazz influences coming back into the Dead's music. Especially evident when Garcia hooked up with Robert Hunter.

Their very electric psychedelic years was a relatively brief period in comparison to the entire 30 year history of the band. But, as runcible rightly points out, even in 73/74 onwards when the full form, organic-space-jam-jazzy monster really grew into a tight (yet loose) professional rock and roll machine they still wore their original influences proudly on their sleeve.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by angelsighs »

what would be a good live album from their psychedelic period? I already have Live Dead and I like it but hasn't blown me away...I want to try another one. I really want to like the Dead, I like the 'idea' of them but they just haven't clicked with me yet
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

angelsighs wrote: I really want to like the Dead, I like the 'idea' of them but they just haven't clicked with me yet
Exactly my feelings in the past. I have never known a band creep on you like they do, and it took 2 decades for me. I so wanted to love them but couldn't work it out. Then it happened and it had a huge effect. Got them playing right now in fact - a live set from the Europe 72 tour...

I'll pass to Redcloud - a genuine expert and guide - for detailed recommendations on various periods. As far as actual albums go most Deadheads never play any of them - they play traded live recordings, and that's what I play all the time. I love the cowboy songs in the 70s period the most - not even a hint of psychedelia about any of those.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

angelsighs, I will hook you up with some choice stuff (check your pm).

Runcible is right....as a band they could never really capture their sound in the studio. The problem with live albums is they are cuts from various shows and then mixed in the studio. Never a perfect representation.

'Live Dead' is a very good LP (imho)....but, there are better from that period and from earlier. By late '69 though the country songs were beginning to make their way into their set and they were exploring the three hour acoustic/electric sets that dominated 1970.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

Aquarian-Time, I thought I would reply to your question about the Dead here in the GD thread.
Aquarian-Time wrote:Ok. A definative 'Dead' album to commence with then ?
In my opinion, the essential studio Dead albums are:

1st LP - '67 garage/traditional blues oriented, west coast hippie rock
Anthem of the Sun - '68 live/studio psychedelic era Dead
Aoxoamoxoa - '69 psychedelic era
American Beauty - '70 country rock
Workingman's Dead - '70 country rock

The essential official live release Dead albums are:

Live Dead - ('69) psychedelia era
Skeletons & Roses - (71)
Europe 72

But, I can't stress enough that you should also begin with some quality live shows. The hardest thing with their HUGE live show catalog is WHERE to begin. The live shows listed below are a good starting place to begin your live Dead journey. If you become hooked there are many, many more quality shows to sink your teeth into!:

10/12/68
2/27-28 & 3/1/69 (much of the 'Live Dead' record is groomed from these dates)
5/2/70
5/15/70
2/18/71
8/6/71
8/27/72
3/24/73
5/8/77

Hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions. There are a few of us on this board who LOVE this band! :D
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

I'm glad I added 5/8/77 into my above list of live shows for the newbie! It was recently inducted into the National Recording Registry! :D

Barton Hall concert by the Grateful Dead (May 8, 1977)
The Grateful Dead was known for its eclectic style that drew on many genres of popular and vernacular music, an improvisational foundation, and a commitment to touring and "live" performances. The Grateful Dead was one of the few musical groups to not only allow, but encourage fans to record its concerts, offering tickets to a special "tapers" section at their shows. The organized trading of Grateful Dead tapes goes back at least to 1971 with the formation of the First Free Underground Grateful Dead Tape Exchange. Fans of the Grateful Dead will never completely agree about which one of their over 2,300 concerts was the best, but there is some consensus about the tape of their Barton Hall performance at Cornell University on May 8, 1977. The soundboard recording of this show has achieved almost mythic status among "Deadhead" tape traders because of its excellent sound quality and early accessibility, as well as its musical performances.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by MODLAB »

Was reminded by a good friend and die hard Dead fan...

17 years ago today Jerry passed. I was fortunate enough to be living in San Francisco at the time
and was present at the vigil in Haight. Was a really crazy day... They created a huge economic caravan
that toured across the world. That day you could see it was like the stock market crashing... I knew a few
'Deadheads' (reason I was there) you lost pretty much everything. Amazing how much one band was loved
and the community was just immense.


B,

M
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

BVCP206 wrote:
redcloud wrote:
BVCP206 wrote: Grateful Dead - American Beauty (Just dipping my toe in here, first thing I've heard and am liking)
Let us know what you think and if you want any suggestions for live shows.
Not what I expected as all, think you could class it as easy listening :!: Understand they have various phases so what are the essential purchases :?:
Firstly, remember in 1969/70 there was a country rock phenomenon with many hippie bands. Byrds, Flying Burrito Brothers, New Riders of the Purple Sage, CSN, Neil Young etc. So, it was only a matter of time for the Dead to go down that path. More so the Dead than many of the other hippie bands because Jerry started life as a bluegrass banjo picker and the Dead were a blues based jug band. Also, keep in mind that in the early 60's Bob Dylan and the folkies were very subversive. Folk music was the underground before rock music really took off.

So, with this perspective, 'American Beauty' and its companion album, 'Workingman's Dead' makes total sense and is far from easy listening. 42 years on it may fall into that category but in 1970 it was an album to roll your big Panama red spliffs to and tend to your tomato plants in your hippie commune far from the city.

Ok....so where to go from here? Check out 'Anthem of the Sun' (1968), 'Aoxoamoxoa' (1969) or 'Live Dead' (1969).

But, also go for a live show. Read through this GD thread for more insights into the live shows. 'Live Dead' gives you a good glimpse into the more laid back '69 Owsley acid soaked period. But, if you want scorching pure clean Owsley acid jams look no further than 10/12/68 Avalon Ballroom, SF (in '68 the band played faster than they did in any other year).
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by MODLAB »

Grateful Dead 5/8/77 Barton Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY

I still have the tape... :)

M
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

MODLAB wrote:Grateful Dead 5/8/77 Barton Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY

I still have the tape... :)
That's a great show. Classic even (see my post a couple up where it was included into the National Recording Registry). It is one of the very few Dead shows I listen to beyond '74. My favorite years are '66-72. I know Runcible loves '72-74. They only played four or so shows in '75. '76 unveiled new material with the 'Blues For Allah' LP. Spring tour '77 though is a gem in the mid/late 70's catalog. Donna's voice was probably at its best. The band are smoking and totally professional sounding (to be fair, by '74 they hit that professional rock and roll band stride). '77 seems to have that quintessential Dead vibe though. It's less acid but full of smiley bounce and a bit jammy and jazzy with a dash of reggae.

All this said, I still prefer the sound of the boys in their primal years.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by sunray »

redcloud wrote: All this said, I still prefer the sound of the boys in their primal years.
Agreed. First two albums, Grateful Dead and Anthem Of The Sun, along with Live Dead, are the essential albums for me. Thought i'd like Aoxomoxoa after a friend recommended it years ago but it just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe i'll give it another go sometime soon.

Have to recommend live recordings from the early years as they're totally at odds with most people's view of the Dead. Real garage type stuff, excellent.

Before anyone asks what shows I mean, I honestly couldn't say as I only ever heard them on some old tapes that a Deadhead friend had many moons ago.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

sunray wrote:
Have to recommend live recordings from the early years as they're totally at odds with most people's view of the Dead. Real garage type stuff, excellent.
Yep!
Before anyone asks what shows I mean, I honestly couldn't say as I only ever heard them on some old tapes that a Deadhead friend had many moons ago.

For raw, primal, punky Dead I love 7/16/66 and 7/30/66.

11/11/67 is very good (as is 3/18).

For early '68 their Valentine's Day show is legendary!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by Hofstadter »

Honestly man, this isn't music related, but can you tell some stories? You seem like you know SO much about the dead, I bet you have some really cool ones related to 'em.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by good dope/good fun »

Check out a book called Living with the Dead.
It's written by Rock Scully, their manager from the late 60's to the early 80's.
Chock full of goodness.
Always liked the story of them cruising through Arizona with a nitrous tank going in the car, they end up flipping, they all get out, and the gas is still going on inside. By the time the cops got there, the car was frozen over from the temperature of the gas. The cop was standing there scratching his head.
Phil Lesh also has a great book called Searching for the Sound.
Very good book indeed.

Personal stories?
Like at shows and stuff?
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

good dope/good fun wrote:Check out a book called Living with the Dead.
It's written by Rock Scully, their manager from the late 60's to the early 80's.
Chock full of goodness.

Phil Lesh also has a great book called Searching for the Sound.
Very good book indeed.
I haven't read Skully's book. But I have read both Lesh's bio and McNally's bio 'A Long Strange Trip', which is equally very good.

Lesh's bio has amazing detail of 40+ year old acid trips. How he can remember them so vividly - especially considering how many trips he took, is amazing!
Hofstadter wrote:Honestly man, this isn't music related, but can you tell some stories? You seem like you know SO much about the dead, I bet you have some really cool ones related to 'em.
I saw them many, many times. Toured for two years. But this was in mid 80's. Many stories to tell...but I honestly wish I could have seen them during the years I really love ('66-72). Most of what I know comes from listening to and sharing their music with other heads for nearly 30 years.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by BVCP206 »

But, also go for a live show. Read through this GD thread for more insights into the live shows. 'Live Dead' gives you a good glimpse into the more laid back '69 Owsley acid soaked period. But, if you want scorching pure clean Owsley acid jams look no further than 10/12/68 Avalon Ballroom, SF (in '68 the band played faster than they did in any other year).[/quote]

Thank you for the recommendations going take a punt on Live Dead and take it from there :)
'Remember, change is not good'
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by sunray »

Anyone else think that Jerry Garcia's playing is an influence on Ripley Johnson of Wooden Shjips / Moon Duo? I find in the majority of Ripley's solos that there's a part that always reminds me of the Dead.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

sunray wrote:Anyone else think that Jerry Garcia's playing is an influence on Ripley Johnson of Wooden Shjips / Moon Duo? I find in the majority of Ripley's solos that there's a part that always reminds me of the Dead.
Wow! Now that is something that I have never thought about. I don't know the Shjips as well as some of you guys but it's a unique perspective and theory you suggest. It makes me want to listen more closely to WS.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by spzretent »

One night I posted "Its a Europe '72 kind of night on FB and Ripley immediately responded positively.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

spzretent wrote:One night I posted "Its a Europe '72 kind of night on FB and Ripley immediately responded positively.
I guess that influence makes sense. I mean, their (WS) early photos they are sitting on the steps of an old SF Victorian just like some of the old Dead photos outside 710 Ashbury.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

Aquarian-Time wrote: Then I opted for Live/Dead on CD by Grateful Dead- I have listened to this 3 times, thinking maybe its me and I have missed something, but i just dont like it at all, lots of aimless jazzy noodling and nothing that left me thinking, 'yep that is top draw', some of the bluesy style jams I just found boring. Sorry Redcloud, Runcible etc I have given them a go, but probably not for me.
That's cool. I will say just a couple things worth remembering though:

60's psych, especially American and in particular the SF/Haight Ashbury bands, were firmly rooted in the blues. Regarding the jazzy aspect...if you think '69 Dead is nearing on jazz arrangements and lengthy noodling you probably wouldn't want to investigate '73 era Dead!

Also, and I think this is a huge factor to remember....this music was meant to be experienced live. I'm lucky to have seen the Dead many times, not in their hey day, but I still caught the band so I do know what it was all about. It's also worth pointing out that when listening to primal Dead ('Live Dead' LP is 1969) because of the time it was recorded it was highly inspired by acid and reefer. Everybody in the audience was on the same trip. Don't take that the wrong way - NO I'm not condoning anything nor am I saying one should be tripping or stoned when listening to them. BUT, for the uninitiated who are trying to understand this band....to listen to them in your home, on your ipod, in your car is a totally different "trip" than being there in the concert hall.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

Aquarian-Time wrote: Then I opted for Live/Dead on CD by Grateful Dead- I have listened to this 3 times, thinking maybe its me and I have missed something, but i just dont like it at all, lots of aimless jazzy noodling and nothing that left me thinking, 'yep that is top draw', some of the bluesy style jams I just found boring. Sorry Redcloud, Runcible etc I have given them a go, but probably not for me.
That's not my favourite Dead album or era so no need to apologise. Go forward a couple of years and I'm all over it though.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

Wow!! I think this article in the most recent New Yorker sums up the band, their legacy and their legion of fans perfectly. An honest read that is wonderfully written. Next time somebody says "I don't get it" I now have something to point them towards that they can read while they listen to a couple choice shows that I send them.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... ntPage=all
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

Fascinating stuff. I like the way they got Dark Star Orchestra - the Dead tribute act - into the article too. Any Dead fan should go and see those guys as they are incredible. I'll stick my neck out here and say that the DSO show I saw in London in March rates as my gig of the year.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by Laz69 »

Absolutely loved that article. Took me about 4 hours to read through, but rivetting stuff!

Big thanks!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by jadams501 »

Great article, thanks. I'm afraid from my deepening appreciation for 2 minute twenty second country songs that i might be one of the concision people the author says doesn't get it, but i am inspired to give them another.

Generally i'm put off by the style and sensibility of the new yorker, so it was a nice surprise that they ran an article this good.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

jadams501 wrote:Great article, thanks. I'm afraid from my deepening appreciation for 2 minute twenty second country songs that i might be one of the concision people the author says doesn't get it, but i am inspired to give them another.

Generally i'm put off by the style and sensibility of the new yorker, so it was a nice surprise that they ran an article this good.
No, I think you get it. Remember, by 1970 the 2min 20sec country/cowboy/working songs had made their way into the Dead's set. In fact, in 1970 their entire first set was acoustic/country numbers and they often played with the New Riders of the Purple Sage. Only the second/electric set would go off into space.

I'm glad others on here enjoyed this article as much as I did. I also agree that it was nice to have a nod to all the post Dead stuff such as DSO yet the author kept quiet about the various jam bands such as Phish. My buddy went down to Terrapin Crossing in the summer and had an incredible experience. The night he was there Phil jammed with both Neal Casal and Adam MacDougall from Chris Robinson Brotherhood.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

That's right - the cowboy/line dancing songs are bulging out of the set list by 1971 and Bob was getting his way with so many of his songs. Plus there are other ditties sung by JG in that genre. So snappy numbers like The Race Is On, Me and My Uncle, Beat It On Down The Line, Mexicali Blues, El Paso, The Promised Land, Going Down The Road Feeling Bad, Big Railroad Blues, Big River... are all going to appeal to your country tick box... ...with a little rock and roll chucked in too in those last few I listed.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

jadams501 wrote:Great article, thanks. I'm afraid from my deepening appreciation for 2 minute twenty second country songs that i might be one of the concision people the author says doesn't get it, but i am inspired to give them another.

Generally i'm put off by the style and sensibility of the new yorker, so it was a nice surprise that they ran an article this good.
AND...JG came from a bluegrass/banjo picking background. That is why his guitar playing is so unique. They also started life as a jug/folk band. Pig's love of the blues teamed with Dylan going electric and the emerging English bands all pushed them in the direction of going electric. It took JG (and the band) a couple years to really grasp the rock and roll thing but by '68 they were full force. Once the acid started to come down, however (late '69), and the country started to creep back into their sets JG seemed to really find himself as did Bobby.

I would say there is a lot in their catalog that you will "get". :D
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

Have a look at this jadams which is a favourite clip of mine from 1972. It's right from the middle of their finest period for me and many others - 1971-74. Oh, and it's 2.36 long so kind of comes close to your requirements!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBAuaJKMOTg

If this doesn't appeal that that whole side of the Dead - pacey country rock - isn't likely to appeal.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by jadams501 »

Good stuff, Runcible. Thanks. I do relate more to the shorter stuff, but the jams have their moments too when I'm in the mood.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by runcible »

jadams501 wrote:Good stuff, Runcible. Thanks. I do relate more to the shorter stuff, but the jams have their moments too when I'm in the mood.
Well there are loads of great little country rockers like that as well as long extended jams. That's the beauty of the band - the variety was enormous. I do love that clip though - great music and they look well cool too.
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by angelsighs »

well, I read the entire article, it was very interesting. they really are a one-of-a-kind phenomenon, the Dead. but I have to say the music still hasn't clicked with me. Redcloud was very helpful in sorting me out with a couple of choice shows, and runcible has also been eloquent talking about their music, but I still think that I like the idea of them more than the reality, if that makes sense.
there are some moments I enjoy, but as a whole it never really ignites for me, never really lifts off. it's almost like they are not heavy enough to be Rock and not truly virtuoistic enough to be Jazz either.
guess just not my cup of tea!
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Re: Grateful Dead

Post by redcloud »

Pretty cool item showed up on eBay recently but it is just a tad out of my price range...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1967-G ... 2ec9bb6a53

For those interested...this is what it is (I have the film ripped from an old vhs converted to dvd but the original reel to reel is quite special. For one, the colors seem a lot more vibrant than on my copy):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0iULSnZ ... e=youtu.be
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