Happy Mondays

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jadams501
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Happy Mondays

Post by jadams501 »

I've been getting increasingly into Happy Mondays over these past few weeks and recently had the breakthrough that, yes, both Bummed and Squirrel & G-Man are far better albums than Pills'n'Thrills'n'Bellyaches, which strikes me as more or less an Urban Hymns-esque letdown, as great as it is.

Wrote For Luck is now one of my favorite songs.

Shaun Ryder is brilliant at what he does, however one would describe it, and I think he's a social satirist in a proud line of English literary artists. He captures the nihilism of the seedy underbelly better than almost anyone. The Mondays strike me as being a lot like what people think Rap is but often isn't. Great, great band.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by radioshack »

I'm currently reading Shaun Ryder's book at the moment. I'm at the part where he's talking about the recording of Yes Please, a record which I've never heard and one which I likely never will given how much he slates it in the book. Of all the crazy stuff he's been through in the book so far, the recording of Yes Please is the point where he seems totally demoralised: out-voted by both band and management about the direction of the music and producer choices of that album, he is forced to try finish off vocal takes and lyrics to music he can't stand to listen to. Gotta feel bad for the guy- his band and management should have left him to it as it seemed to be going swimmingly up until that point.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

jadams501 wrote: Pills'n'Thrills'n'Bellyaches... which strikes me as more or less an Urban Hymns-esque letdown, as great as it is.
Ouch! For me that's basically saying Pills 'n' Thrills is shit. Which it most certainly isn't. Yes Please is the let down. Pills 'n' Thrills shows genuine pop mixed with psych and everything done with a cheeky smile.

I can't even begin to compare it to Urban Hymns, an album I was SO excited about and whose praise I just cannot fathom. I kept playing it and bar 4 tracks it's largely awful. Yet when Pills 'n' Thrills came out my excitement was similar but it delivered everything I wanted it to.
jadams501 wrote:Shaun Ryder is brilliant at what he does, however one would describe it, and I think he's a social satirist in a proud line of English literary artists. He captures the nihilism of the seedy underbelly better than almost anyone. The Mondays strike me as being a lot like what people think Rap is but often isn't. Great, great band.
You know, that thing about rap is not a bad description. I like the idea of SR being 'a social satirist in a proud line of English literary artists', yet he can come up with a lyric like 'you see now Jesus is a cunt'! His lyrics are actually really good for a guy who claimed to have made it all up on the spot. I love all the quotes from the movie Performance during the track of the same name, but almost all of Bummed is fantastic, music and all.

Good to see someone appreciating the Mondays - I still love 'em. Well psychedelic a lot of the time too.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by nickh »

I am probably going to come across as one of those tedious “oh, I liked them when no one else did” types but anyway.

I first got to see the Happy Mondays in 1987 and I liked the barely together mess they were on stage, having a dancer on stage seemed pretty strange (in a good way) too. That look has been assimilated a million times now but they really looked and sounded like no one I had ever seen back then. I bought the Squirrel & G-Man album and Freaky Dancing 12” and set about trying to convert some of my friends, as usual no luck there.

I got to see them again the following year at ULU and what a difference a few months made. They played songs from Bummed which I thought were a big step forwards from the Squirrel record, sure they were loose but the songs had become tight as fuck (if that makes sense), I loved that record. ULU was packed that night, I also saw them fairly soon after at the Astoria of which a bit was shown on Snub TV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgP91VhhEU

Unfortunately the NME began to champion them and all of a sudden you had a “scene“. The Happy Mondays did scare a lot of bands though, there was that awful line that the bandwagon jumpers (and I’m looking at you The Soup Dragons especially) came out with about some crap about always having a dance element to their music. I think a lot of bands were shit scared of being left behind and were desperate to try and soak up some of the Happy Mondays vibe...all those appalling dance mixes which even Spiritualized were guilty of.

I remember the NME saying that Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses on Top of the Pops was a major coup and one of the most important events in music. I thought Fool’s Gold was an awful record after the genius of the first album and Hallelujah was the worst record I had heard from Happy Mondays. That Madchester Rave On schtick seemed so naff. I thought Step On was a good record but I never bought Pills, Thrills...my brother had a copy which he used to listen to quite a lot but I had pretty much switched off by then.

I have never heard Yes Please, I think it was obvious who the leader of that band was and when the others stopped listening to him the game was up really. I would quite like to read his book too, I can guiltily admit to watching him on I’m a Celeb...and he came across really well. Nice to see the guy is still around.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by jadams501 »

runcible wrote:
jadams501 wrote: Pills'n'Thrills'n'Bellyaches... which strikes me as more or less an Urban Hymns-esque letdown, as great as it is.
Ouch! For me that's basically saying Pills 'n' Thrills is shit. Which it most certainly isn't. Yes Please is the let down. Pills 'n' Thrills shows genuine pop mixed with psych and everything done with a cheeky smile.

I can't even begin to compare it to Urban Hymns, an album I was SO excited about and whose praise I just cannot fathom. I kept playing it and bar 4 tracks it's largely awful. Yet when Pills 'n' Thrills came out my excitement was similar but it delivered everything I wanted it to.
I suspect that you and I will never see eye to eye on Urban Hymns, which I think is a top-flight britpop record even if it falls short of the preceding Verve albums. In the same way that Urban Hymns delivers the huge songs in a maximally accessible package, but loses a lot of the unique magic of their earlier stuff, Pills 'n' Thrills offers huge classic singles without quite the pure madness and sonic density of Bummed. It's a great album, but also a compromise on some levels.

(Only 4 good songs on Urban Hymns? At the very least Bitter Sweet, Sonnet, Rolling People, Catching The Butterfly, Weeping Willow, Lucky Man, This Time, and Come On are all great, and I wouldn't say the others are awful either)
radioshack wrote:I'm currently reading Shaun Ryder's book at the moment. I'm at the part where he's talking about the recording of Yes Please, a record which I've never heard and one which I likely never will given how much he slates it in the book. Of all the crazy stuff he's been through in the book so far, the recording of Yes Please is the point where he seems totally demoralised: out-voted by both band and management about the direction of the music and producer choices of that album, he is forced to try finish off vocal takes and lyrics to music he can't stand to listen to. Gotta feel bad for the guy- his band and management should have left him to it as it seemed to be going swimmingly up until that point.
I didn't know he had a book, I'll have to track it down. Indeed, almost everything about Yes Please is inexplicable.
nickh wrote:I think a lot of bands were shit scared of being left behind and were desperate to try and soak up some of the Happy Mondays vibe...all those appalling dance mixes which even Spiritualized were guilty of.
For the record, 2 of those remixes of Anyway That You Want Me are awesome, and I like them better than the single!
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

nickh wrote: I got to see them again the following year at ULU and what a difference a few months made. They played songs from Bummed which I thought were a big step forwards from the Squirrel record, sure they were loose but the songs had become tight as fuck (if that makes sense), I loved that record. ULU was packed that night, I also saw them fairly soon after at the Astoria of which a bit was shown on Snub TV.
Not again - 2 more gigs you and I were at Nick! That ULU gig was extraordinary and the one where all these hoodies wandered around with huge bongs.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

jadams501 wrote:Only 4 good songs on Urban Hymns? At the very least Bitter Sweet, Sonnet, Rolling People, Catching The Butterfly, Weeping Willow, Lucky Man, This Time, and Come On are all great, and I wouldn't say the others are awful either
Bittersweet Symphony, Rolling People, Catching The Butterfly and Come On - all absolutely outstanding songs. BSS is one of the greatest singles ever released. Sonnet, Drugs Don't Work, Weeping Willow and This Time are all appalling - embarassing even. Velvet Morning sounds like some horrible attempt at copying Prince's Purple Rain (another track I loathe) and must rate as the worst thing I've heard by them (I didn't bother with Forth). I quite like Lucky Man having said all that. So there's no chance of us agreeing on that album as you say...
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by KingHarry »

I've got one of the original pressings of Squirrel & Gman - the one with Desmond on. I still believe it's their best lp, and the b-sides from the early singles are essential. My favourite Happy Mondays song is The Egg off Freaky Dancin.

They are indisputably utterly brilliant. It looked as though it was all going to implode around Step On - which I hated - and it was to genuine amazement that Pill & Thrills ended up so decent.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by Kurious Oranj »

runcible wrote:Sonnet, Drugs Don't Work, Weeping Willow and This Time are all appalling - embarassing even.
aw man i love most of those songs.. although when i think on it they might have meant more to me at a specific time in my life

happy mondays are a lot of fun.. love their first 3 albums.

never heard the egg before, so thanks for that
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spunder »

i'm assuming we all love Black Grape aswell....
runcible
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

spunder wrote:i'm assuming we all love Black Grape aswell....
Tried with them but I've already voiced opinions on that!
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by angelsighs »

I'll repeat what I said in another thread, the Mondays were a totally unique band, there is literally no one else that sounds like them, yet many dismiss them as some sort of joke band.

Bummed is their greatest album and their total peak. Squirrell & G Man is biting at its heels and should be mentioned more.

I have never been able to get into Pills and Thrills, I find it quite bland.

I'm gonna stick up for Yes Please.. its mediocre for sure but worth giving a re-listen

I presume no ones heard this..??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Dysfunktional
jadams501
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by jadams501 »

spunder wrote:i'm assuming we all love Black Grape aswell....
angelsighs wrote:I presume no ones heard this..??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Dysfunktional
I've lately had the chance to listen to both "It's Great When You're Straight... Yeah" and "Uncle Dysfunctional" and both are quite good records, I think. Black Grape is like a streamlined Mondays with a strong mid-90s "Cool Britannia" vibe, and Uncle Dysfunctional is if anything even more dickensian than the earlier stuff. Both are inconsistent, and I haven't listened enough to point out highlights, but they are better than Yes Please and worth a spin.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by johnnyboy »

I'll chuck my hat into this thread......

Bummed is genius. One of my favourite albums of all time (but there are plenty of those). I had it in my Top 20 (or was it 30 or 50?) list we had on here sometime back. Totally love it.

Pills is great but nowhere near as great.

Why drag the Verve into a Happy Mondays thread?? Before you know it all the chat will be about sodding Urban Hymns, again.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spunder »

'its great when your straight....' is an amazing, technicolour, tough and funky record and goes very well with *ahem* disco biscuits....i quite like the darker grooves of the second album aswell
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by natty »

Wrote For Luck is the best thing they ever did.

Great band.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by sunray »

natty wrote:Wrote For Luck is the best thing they ever did.
I'll second that. Bummed would be my fave album of theirs but i also like "Squirrel..." and "Pills...". Haven't listened to "Yes Please" in years, must give it a spin. Uncle Dysfunktional was much better than i was expecting. First Black Grape album is decent too.

Special mention for Oasis off Squirrel... What a fucking tune! Gets me every time :D

Saw the Mondays at Feile Festival 1991, pretty poor except for Wrote For Luck and then again at another festival in the early noughties when they had topless dancers and a pretend Bez, again, not great.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by niamhm »

yep the Mondays are great ,no mistake or arguement ,seem to remember posting this very recently ,IMO Bummed & Pills are both 9.5/10 out of 10 albums classics both ,in some far off parallel universe Squirrel And G-man might be a better album than Pills , its very possible ,but no in this one,
I quite like Yes ,Please & Squirrel ,but don`t love either ,so they can squabble for 3 and 4th place in the Monday ratings.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by Zenchan »

I've never really been into the albums, but I think Loose Fit is a highpoint of "Madchester" music. Absolutely brilliant.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

sunray wrote:Special mention for Oasis off Squirrel... What a fucking tune! Gets me every time :D
Well said that man! Oasis is a genuinely beautiful song - sublime jangly guitar and an irresistable vibe all the way through. Even thinking about that song makes me smile broadly.
niamhm wrote: ,IMO Bummed & Pills are both 9.5/10 out of 10 albums classics both ,in some far off parallel universe Squirrel And G-man might be a better album than Pills , its very possible ,but no in this one
Agreed again, but I include Squirrel in that too. Nice to see someone championing Pills - I love that record.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by jadams501 »

I gave Yes Please another chance and thought it actually had some real gems on it. Stinkin Thinkin, Sunshine & Love, and Dustman are each very good in their own way. It's definitely a big step down from the previous album but it partially succeeds on its own terms as kind of a blurry hangover record.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by sunray »

Have just finished the 'Excess All Areas' biography by Simon Spence, which is a very good read btw, and have found myself going on a Mondays binge.

Bummed and Pills n Thrills really are great albums.
I hadn't listened to the latter in years but it's pure sunshine vibes. If Denis & Lois doesn't put a smile on your face you might as well give up on life and retreat to your indie ghetto in your threadbare grey cardigan. The double whammy closer of Holiday and Harmony is fantastic. Harmony is a real good dope good fun type tune in that it perfectly captures the mood of great company and refreshments in the sun. The sleaze of Loose Fit and Bob's Yer Uncle are hypnotic. Some lovely production and great bass throughout.

Squirrel is good but definitely not at the same level as the next two. There are great songs but they're clearly still finding their way. They really did take a massive leap with Bummed, which is hard to find fault with. Yes Please isn't bad actually, there's some good stuff on there but you can hear the vibe is missing.
Unkle Dysfunctional sounds more like a Black Grape lp and it was only Ryder/Whelan/Bez so it's not really a Mondays album imo. However, it too has some decent songs and is worth a listen, although some of it is poor.

I love Shaun's lyrics but i don't think he ever gets credit as a vocalist. Totally unique voice that really suits the material. Brother Paul's bass playing is pretty cool too. Never really paid attention before but it's an integral part of the sound.

I find it bizarre that Tokoloshe Man was stuck on an Elektra compilation and available nowhere else for ages. Top tune.

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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by niamhm »

Can`t disagree with your assertions Joycey, Bummed and Pills are both 9/10 borderline 10 /10 to my ears, Bummed was a WTF is this and tbf still is really, never be another record like that where as Pills was two yrs later and we all thought we knew what the The Mondays were and they came along an blasted right into the mainstream and occupied that middle ground and perverted an twisted it for a short while, I always liked the Mondays over the Roses which wasn`t an entirely popular opinion among my peers but fuck them the Mondays were always way more inventive and original.
Yeah it was pretty obvious it couldn`t last for ever, shit was out off control and by 1992 not even Tony Wilson could do anything about it but Yes Please still has its moments, moments not many other bands could manage, low down an f#ckin` dirty
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by ibex1251 »

Black Grape were also pretty damn cool.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

ibex1251 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:39 am Black Grape were also pretty damn cool.
They were flippin incredible. Saw them several times live in '96/'97 . Corking live band.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spacemanrich »

Just put the book on reserve at my local library. The author also written a book about the Stone Roses ( I'll get that next time ). Both bands are great during the Madchester days. Yeah, your right got to put the Mondays on the turntable - haven't listened to their albums in awhile ...
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by sunray »

spacemanrich wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:25 am Just put the book on reserve at my local library. The author also written a book about the Stone Roses ( I'll get that next time ).
The Stone Roses book is also a good read.
Not wishing to turn this into a battle of the bands thread but i was of the same view as niamhm. Aside from a handful of songs i never got the fuss about the Roses. Probably took the guts of 15 years for me to see any real worth in their albums. Still think She Bangs The Drums is naff though!
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

I loved the Monday at their prime. Curiously the first time I saw them - and I may have mentioned this before - was supporting Loop at the Astoria. December 88 I think. Someone in the crowd said the Mondays were in the venue and next thing they shuffled on stage to some backing track - I can't even recall if anyone played an instrument - and the crowd kind of got into it. After 15 minutes they got bored and the empty glasses and cigarettes started to hit the stage and the Mondays shuffled off again. The I saw them at ULU a few months later and they were absolutely fantastic. Half the audience were Mancs and people had - no kidding - foot high bongs in the middle of the crowd. It was quite an atmosphere.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by clewsr »

runcible wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:20 pm foot high bongs in the middle of the crowd. It was quite an atmosphere.
love it.

Listened to pill thrills and bellyaches for the first time in years yesterday. Still sounds fresh and fantastic. 91-93 was a great era, before corporate brit pop subsumed everything in its path
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by angel-sighs »

There’s definitely an argument that Happy Mondays are underrated. I think part of that is people now seem more focussed on their antics and Shaun and Bez as reality TV stars rather than the music. Whereas The Stone Roses say always had more of an ‘enigma’ about them and split up for a long time etc. The Roses are definitely more of a classic rock band, that’s for sure. Whereas the Mondays are more genuinely original. I like both though.

I think Pill Thrills is overrated (it’s too smooth and shiny) and Yes Please is underrated (it’s really not that bad). But Bummed is the one for me. Great album.

Strangely they were one of the first live bands I ever saw (around 2000). I was pleasantly surprised as they had a reputation as a shambolic live act but it was pretty slick.

Also in 2002 I went to Move Festival in Manchester which was kind of a night of Manchester music headlined by New Order. Shaun was meant to play a solo set but at the last minute he was replaced by Echo & The Bunnymen. He released a solo album the next year which I never see mentioned. Has anyone heard it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_N ... he_Big_Top
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by sunray »

angel-sighs wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:15 pm Also in 2002 I went to Move Festival in Manchester which was kind of a night of Manchester music headlined by New Order. Shaun was meant to play a solo set but at the last minute he was replaced by Echo & The Bunnymen. He released a solo album the next year which I never see mentioned. Has anyone heard it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_N ... he_Big_Top
Yep, was listening to it the other day. There are some good songs on it but they're all too long. There is only one song under six minutes, the rest are around the 7-8 minute mark, aside from one that's over 9 mins. Half the length of them all and you'd have a far better album.
Musically there's elements of dub, triphop, drum n bass, electronica and funk while Shaun does a lot of spoken word type vocals. Worth a listen but eventually hard going due to song durations.

He also released an album last year, 'Visits From Future Technology', which i honestly can't remember. I've a vague recollection of not really enjoying it but maybe i wasn't in the mood.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spacemanrich »

How can you not like ' Elisabeth My Dear ' segueing into ' (Song for My) Sugar Spun Sister ' ?
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by sunray »

Just heard the news that Paul Ryder has died, aged 57. No details as yet.
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runcible
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by runcible »

I heard about this too. Very sad. I know he & Shaun had their issues but his bass lines on stuff like Bob's Yer Uncle will always show how important he was to that band at their peak.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by niamhm »

As a pretty shitty bass player I was always impressed by Ryders bass lines and thought his best stuff was just out there, beyond my chubby fingers!! My own personal highlight is the rolling undercarriage he gives to Mad Cyril, so many memories attached to that one getting you on your feet, at 56 this yr I`m more than aware that 58 is no age at all to check out, at 30yrs past though you can`t help doing a little stocktaking yourself and wondering how much music and our consumption of it has changed, no way a band like the `Mondays could happen these days :cry:
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spacemanrich »

Finished reading the book, nothing surprising or shocking. Lived up to expectations on what I read / heard about them. Surprisingly, Derek ( dad to Shaun and Paul ) was involved from their son's musical journey from beginning to end - ferrying the boys to rehearsals, loading/unloading musical equipment and sound check. Why couldn't he stop his sons from doing drugs from the get-go and/or curb it is beyond me ? Makes the other Mancunian bands at that time look like choir boys i.e. - the Smiths, James and the Stone Roses. Speaking of the Stone Roses got the biography on them with the same author as the Mondays. Will update later on what I think of the biography ...
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spacemanrich »

Finished the Stone Roses biography by the same author. I enjoyed this book much better than the Happy Mondays one, oddly enough by the same author. Comes down to the band itself where I find the Roses to be more intellectual and have integrity about their songs, band, etc. With the Mondays I know what to expect, but not with the Stone Roses. I found that all of them are proper nutters except Mani who seems down to earth and mellow. Reni, as depicted can be a bit aggressive, however, he was a recluse after the band split up ( never doing interviews, etc. ). John had his ego too, but wasn't attention getting as Ian. Ian was an arrogant prick. Lot of interesting tidbits for instance David Bowie in 1990 wanted to produce the Stone Roses next album. Also, after a 15+year split Ian and John hadn't spoken or seen each other until Mani's mum died and both were at the funeral/wake.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by Greeny »

I guess the Roses are fully 'done' now? Haven't heard anything for ages.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by spacemanrich »

I think both bands are done. If any of them do a tour you know it's about the money, sadly enough.
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Re: Happy Mondays

Post by grOOve bound »

Couldn't agree more with the original Post - "Wrote For Luck" is simply brilliant and has so much running through it...

Nice one...!
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