Urban Hymns

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jadams501
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Urban Hymns

Post by jadams501 »

From the Happy Mondays thread, some fightin' words about Urban Hymns... I didn't want to derail the other thread.
runcible wrote:I can't even begin to compare it to Urban Hymns, an album I was SO excited about and whose praise I just cannot fathom. I kept playing it and bar 4 tracks it's largely awful. Yet when Pills 'n' Thrills came out my excitement was similar but it delivered everything I wanted it to.
...
Bittersweet Symphony, Rolling People, Catching The Butterfly and Come On - all absolutely outstanding songs. BSS is one of the greatest singles ever released. Sonnet, Drugs Don't Work, Weeping Willow and This Time are all appalling - embarassing even. Velvet Morning sounds like some horrible attempt at copying Prince's Purple Rain (another track I loathe) and must rate as the worst thing I've heard by them (I didn't bother with Forth). I quite like Lucky Man having said all that. So there's no chance of us agreeing on that album as you say...
As a diehard Verve fan, I definitely understand that Urban Hymns was in some ways a fundamental betrayal of the incredible, oceanic sound of their previous work. It's essentially an Ashcroft solo album with some flourishes and a few odd contributions from the real core essence of the band. The most brilliantly representative tracks, like Echo Bass and The Longest Day, were bafflingly exiled to b-side status.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't an epic, masterful album in and of itself. I'm listening to One Day right now, which is probably the weakest track on the album, and by the time you get to the multitracked vocal outro Ashcroft has sold it and it's fairly compelling. No, it's not A Northern Soul, but it has an organic grace far beyond Oasis and the norm. Many of the other tracks you slate are pretty excellent too, Weeping Willow and This Time in particular. I freely admit that Velvet Morning is kind of neutered, but it's a very enjoyable zeitgeisty kinda 90s track. Sonnet is a classic, chiseled George Harrison-esque pop song that is almost perfectly executed in my opinion. And I actually find Rolling People, Come On, and especially Drugs Don't Work almost unlistenable next to the incomparably superior demos and live takes, but still I must admit they are well executed on the released album. There's a very good reason it was a mammoth bestseller, which I can admit despite having more regard for most of their other work.

Runcible, I would suggest you give Forth (and the other tracks released during the reunion) a thoughtful listen. There is some rustiness there, and in typical egotistical form Ashcroft didn't quite square the difference between Verve and his lukewarm solo career. But there are some really undeniable tracks, from Sit & Wonder and Love Is Noise to Rather Be and Noise Epic, the epic closers Columbo and Appalachian Springs to the obscure Ma Ma Soul, Muhammad Ali, All Night Long, and Blue Pacific Ocean. Not to mention the cool 14-minute Thaw Session jam that launched the reunion.

A lot of the Verve magic that I agree is largely missing from Urban Hymns does show up periodically on Forth. If you love the old stuff it's definitely worth a listen. And even though Urban Hymns is a step down from Verve's earlier work, it's still a very very good album. And the b-sides are pretty fantastic, too.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

I know loads of people love Urban Hymns but believe me I tried so hard - I love the first 2 albums so much that I was determined the 3rd absolutely had to be good and that I was missing something. I'm not sure continued playing and disliking is going to help.

As for Forth... That single was so abysmal and so was another track I heard on the radio that I made a decision that I didn't want to hear it and friends who shared my love for earlier Verve told me they hated it. I know it would affect my opinion on the first 2 albums as Ashcroft was such a cock by the time it came out. I bought his first solo record too in the hope that I'd find some of the genius from early Verve - boy did I make a mistake there. Verve's legendary status is best left to the first 2 albums and the songs I mentioned from UH.

This is going to turn into Flaming Lips territory soon. Such a similar thing happened to them. They brought out an album to gigantic critical acclaim and mass sales having had an incredibly consistent period of releases for 6-7 years prior but with a very different style of msuic. They took on loads of new fans but left a lot of old ones, me included, behind. People love the Lips era from Soft Bulletin onwards - I just don't get it so for me that band stopped in 1996, just as Verve effectively ceased in 1997.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by angelsighs »

oh dear not this again... you can almost time your watch as to when an UH debate comes up on this board..

I'm on the side of jadams here- Urban Hymns is definitely the weakest of the original run of Verve albums but still pretty impressive. it might be pop music but it's deep, spacey, soulful pop music.
the only songs I don't really like are Sonnet (might just be because I'm sick of it though) and One Day (which is pretty much everyones least favourite track on there, and definitely sounds more like solo Ashcroft). Lucky Man I can take or leave too, sometimes. but apart from that ... what an album. i for one love Velvet Morning, This Time is a great spacefunk workout which provides some variety but still has a poppy and soulful melody over the top of it (ditto Catching the Butterfly).. Space and Time is a superior Ashcroft song lifted to another level by the bands arrangement,..

one thing I can agree with runcible on is that BSS is one the greatest pop songs ever. it's so unique, individual, epic yet catchy.

I also like the fact that the first 3 albums are all quite different.

the mix could maybe do with a bit more balls and edge to it, but infact I think the fact that the production and mastering is less compressed and OTT than other albums of the era means it has dated well. it still sounds classy and tasteful.

the live versions of the tracks are much noisier and spacier too, so if you find it too soft go to the bootlegs from the era.

and the B sides are generally awesome. some are much jammier but still sound different and are a progression from the early days.

I can see why a fan expecting a certain sound might be disappointed in the album, but saying it's awful or dismissing the whole era is taking it too far.
Last edited by angelsighs on Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
spunder
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spunder »

interesting (?) article i linked to on NS a while ago....

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/feature.php?ID=1905
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by James T »

Until recently I hated UH. Now I quite enjoy it, some great tracks. I wouldn't say the singles are what anyone would've wanted from The Verve, but they're good tracks. Drugs Don't Work, Sonnet, BSS, Space & Time. Lucky Man.... decent songs every now and then. If I look at it for what it is, I enjoy it quite a lot from time to time.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

angelsighs wrote:I can see why a fan expecting a certain sound might be disappointed in the album, but saying it's awful or dismissing the whole era is taking it too far.
So if I played it dozens of times after release (and occasionally revisit it) but every time I am disappointed to the extent that it really irritates me makes me conclude that, bar the songs I mention, it's awful. Sorry.

We'll be onto Ok Computer next - another total mystery. Couple of great songs, the rest very mediocre. It's Ok not to like 'classic' albums. Urban Hymns is one of the best (or worst) examples of this, Soft Bulletin another. Pet Sounds too - I have a stab at that on a regular basis and just don't get it yet I like lots of Beach Boys stuff.

There are many others who feel the same about Urban Hymns. And Soft Bulletin. And Ok Computer. And even Pet Sounds too! But there are also people who think the Beatles are 'overrated', Led Zeppelin are 'crap' and that reggae 'all sounds the same'. Opinions...
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by TheWarmth »

I, for one, don't mind discussing this again. There hasn't been as much activity on this board as I'd like recently, and this thread has already spurred some thoughtful conversation. I haven't listened to UH in a long time, but I will go back to it soon. Memory tells me that it isn't as pleasing as A Northern Soul or A Storm In Heaven, but those albums set the bar very high. I do believe that there are a number of strong tracks on Urban Hymns, but the production didn't help a lot of them. "The Drugs Don't Work" and "Space and Time" both had the raw energy and soul of the Ashcroft demos zapped out of them. There are some great b-sides on the singles: "Three Steps" is phenomenal and I like "So Sister" and "Country Song" a lot, too.

As for Forth, jadams, I'm surprised you didn't mention "Judas," which I think is just fantastic. I have to agree with Runcible Mark about "Love Is Noise," though. I can't stand that song. There is some seriously good shit on that album, though, and I do think it's worth a listen. Mark ... check out "Sit & Wonder" if you get a chance.

Also, I'd like to mention that the four b-sides from the first two singles taken off of Alone With Everybody are amazing and overshadow virtually everything on the album itself, at least for me:

"(Could Be) A Country Thing, City Thing, Blues Thing"
"Precious Stone"
"Leave Me High"
"XXYY"

These make a beautiful EP. I actually have all of my cds in storage right now and, sadly, cannot easily access them, otherwise I would do up a link. Perhaps someone else can do so? I'd certainly appreciate it.
Last edited by TheWarmth on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by radioshack »

For me, it's Nick McCabe's guitar that saves this album. The outro of Sonnet, The sweet guitar fills on songs like Space and Time, Weeping Willow and One Day and the whole of Rolling People, Catching the butterfly and Come On. He kills on this record, whether rocking out on the jams or playing on the lamest, third-rate ballad. It would be a worse (or even worse, in some people's eyes ) album had he not been on it. He never let his standards slip on this album, and allows himself to run through a variety of different sounds and ideas on the songs without ever sounding formulaic or lazy. Can't say the same for Ashcroft.

Just before the Verve got back together in 2007 (or whenever it was), Ashcroft was talking about his regret that he didn't make UH his first solo album, and leave off songs like Come On and The Rolling People in favour of some of the stuff of his solo album. How deluded is the man about his talent and arrangement skills? A listen to his 3 solo albums highlight this-just, awful, lazy, overblown instrumentation tacked onto lightweight acoustic songs. He seems to have totally fallen of the radar since the whole RPA fiasco. Perhaps he's hoping everyone will forget it ever happened?

As for lack of activity on this board, I'm kinda sad at the lack of love for Barry's 'Greatest Hits' thread. Surely that's a conversation starter?
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

radioshack wrote:
Just before the Verve got back together in 2007 (or whenever it was), Ashcroft was talking about his regret that he didn't make UH his first solo album, and leave off songs like Come On and The Rolling People in favour of some of the stuff of his solo album. How deluded is the man about his talent and arrangement skills???
So deluded he ruined the band. I firmly believe his ego killed this record and effectively the band. However, as stated earlier, these guys needed a personailty to lead them. To take over, Shame Nick McCabe didn't have it in him or Simon or Pete for that matter. Things may have been totally different. As I recall when Verve startd getting press early on RA very much fancied himself the new Mick Jagger. So he had his mind clearly set on stardom. Shame he didn't have the songs to back it up for the long haul.
Forth doesn't even count in my book. I got thru 4 songs and took it off. I do remember seeing the vinyl in Fopp the year after it came out for 4 quid.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

runcible wrote:I know loads of people love Urban Hymns but believe me I tried so hard - I love the first 2 albums so much that I was determined the 3rd absolutely had to be good and that I was missing something. I'm not sure continued playing and disliking is going to help.
.
don't listen to it as a verve album, listen to it as just an album from some new band- it beats most of the new stuff out there
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

runcible wrote:
angelsighs wrote:I beach boys And Soft Bulletin. And even Pet Sounds too! But there are also people who think the Beatles are 'overrated', Led Zeppelin are 'crap' and that reggae 'all sounds the same'. Opinions...
all crap in my opinion. reggae sounds incomplete, more holes in the sound than in swis cheese...
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
angelsighs
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by angelsighs »

haha but if we all just agreed to disagree message boards like this would be much more boring... sometimes if you argue enough you can make people see things in a different way and maybe convert them!

Forth has four total keepers on there:
Sit and Wonder
Judas
Columbo
Appalachian Springs

but it's largely ruined by the horrible, digital, plastic production that sucks all the air out of it. Love Is Noise sounds like the Black Eyed Peas or something :) i have come to peace with that song a little.. it is what it is.. at least its different. I remember an early reformation interview that said Nick thought the album was the best thing they ever did, and that they were recording on proper analogue gear.. it was music to my ears.. then i heard the album :(

The Thaw Session is also one of the greatest things they ever did!
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

spzretent wrote:
radioshack wrote:
So deluded he ruined the band. I firmly believe his ego killed this record and effectively the band. However, as stated earlier, these guys needed a personailty to lead them. To take over,d.
isn't that true for most bands?
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by TheWarmth »

The unbearably slow progress of The Black Ships is, to me, proof that neither Nick nor Simon are fit to lead a band. Also, it's clear that they shouldn't be producing their own material. I was so underwhelmed with that debut EP that I don't even care if they every wind up putting an album out.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spunder »

angelsighs wrote:haha but if we all just agreed to disagree message boards like this would be much more boring... sometimes if you argue enough you can make people see things in a different way and maybe convert them!

Forth has four total keepers on there:
Sit and Wonder
Judas
Columbo
Appalachian Springs
and ALL the other tracks recorded at the time that werent on the album are awesome really.
TheWarmth wrote:The unbearably slow progress of The Black Ships is, to me, proof that neither Nick nor Simon are fit to lead a band. Also, it's clear that they shouldn't be producing their own material. I was so underwhelmed with that debut EP that I don't even care if they every wind up putting an album out.
the tracks played at the only black ships gig sound great - apart from some of the vocals... agree with unbearably slow progress though
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

bunnyben wrote:
runcible wrote:I know loads of people love Urban Hymns but believe me I tried so hard - I love the first 2 albums so much that I was determined the 3rd absolutely had to be good and that I was missing something. I'm not sure continued playing and disliking is going to help.
.
don't listen to it as a verve album, listen to it as just an album from some new band- it beats most of the new stuff out there
What I said earlier. As an album it has 4 great songs on it but lots that are just 'appalling' (quoting myself there). Doesn't matter who it's by, it's still a disappointing album.

Curious to know what 'most of the new stuff out there' is...? Wooden Shjips? Moon Duo? Hookworms? Sun Araw? Going back a little - The Soft Pack? I get a lot more satisfaction and quality on all those than on UH.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bruce_brobertson »

I remember reading that Nick McCabe's contribution was minimal to say to least, a few guitar licks and layering on tracks like 'Rolling People' and 'Catching the Butterfly'. I wish Richard really had used Urban Hymns as his solo LP because calling it an album by The Verve simply emphasizes Richard's ego at that time.

I also read that Nick was "sampled" (yes, fucking sampled!) at live shows after he left.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spunder »

bruce_brobertson wrote:I remember reading that Nick McCabe's contribution was minimal to say to least, a few guitar licks and layering on tracks like 'Rolling People' and 'Catching the Butterfly'..
this is nonsense...they had been playing 'rolling people since '94 and catching the butterfly was a nick jam.
the following link gives more good, detailed track by track info : http://special.the-raft.com/theverve/chrisp.html
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by TheWarmth »

I think that it's key to know the following about BSS:

It started with the infamous Andrew Loog Oldham loop which Pete and Si (Jones) played over the top of. That loop, just for the record, is very little. It's a basic chord progression and a couple of bongos, it's not the string riff. It's no big deal. I've seen a couple of things where they say the strings were pinched, that's bullshit.

To this day, I think most people still believe that it's the strings that were sampled.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

TheWarmth wrote:I think that it's key to know the following about BSS:

It started with the infamous Andrew Loog Oldham loop which Pete and Si (Jones) played over the top of. That loop, just for the record, is very little. It's a basic chord progression and a couple of bongos, it's not the string riff. It's no big deal. I've seen a couple of things where they say the strings were pinched, that's bullshit.

To this day, I think most people still believe that it's the strings that were sampled.
mavis staples should sue the stones
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
bunnyben
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

runcible wrote:
bunnyben wrote:
runcible wrote:I know loads of people love Urban Hymns but believe me I tried so hard - I love the first 2 albums so much that I was determined the 3rd absolutely had to be good and that I was missing something. I'm not sure continued playing and disliking is going to help.
.
don't listen to it as a verve album, listen to it as just an album from some new band- it beats most of the new stuff out there
What I said earlier. As an album it has 4 great songs on it but lots that are just 'appalling' (quoting myself there). Doesn't matter who it's by, it's still a disappointing album.

Curious to know what 'most of the new stuff out there' is...? Wooden Shjips? Moon Duo? Hookworms? Sun Araw? Going back a little - The Soft Pack? I get a lot more satisfaction and quality on all those than on UH.
i meant in the popular press. for whatever one might say uh was a cross over record and without it i doubt they would have reformed (again)
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
spunder
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spunder »

hello runcible......glad someone else in the universe likes Soft Pack!...you seen them live??
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

bunnyben wrote:i meant in the popular press.
:shock:
The 'popular press'?! Are you serious? I don't read any of it and can't remember the last occasion when I bought anything that can be considered part of it. I think I bought a Mojo about 18 months ago - because it had an article on PiL or Soft Machine or something. What is it anyway - the NME? Uncut? Q? All utterly disposable and all so badly written it's a mystery they still sell any copies.

99% of the music I am interested in has absolutely no coverage in the popular press (very different to 20 years ago where shit like the NME actually had something useful to say). These rags are stuffed full of uninformed, ego-centred idiots and they are generally filled with rubbish. The recommendations and opinions of many people here are worth a thousand times that of 'the popular press'.

The Soft Pack were recommended to me by Paul Warmth - a man of considered taste I've found - so I went to see them (yes indeed Spunder!) and thought they were fantastic. Since that night they've done... ...nothing. I later found out that the 'popular press' said they were the next big thing, and might end up as good as The Strokes (God help me, another 'great band' according to the NME, but easily one of the dullest bands I've ever seen). Yet The Soft Pack have vanished - very odd as they were shit hot in Leeds.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by TheWarmth »

Looks like The Soft Pack post regularly on their Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/thesoftpack?sk=wall

They've got one show in LA on Dec. 9th and more in early January.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

runcible wrote:
bunnyben wrote:i meant in the popular press.
:shock:
The 'popular press'?! Are you serious? I don't read any of it and can't remember the last occasion when I bought anything that can be considered part of it. I think I bought a Mojo about 18 months ago - because it had an article on PiL or Soft Machine or something. What is it anyway - the NME? Uncut? Q? All utterly disposable and all so badly written it's a mystery they still sell any copies.

99% of the music I am interested in has absolutely no coverage in the popular press (very different to 20 years ago where shit like the NME actually had something useful to say). These rags are stuffed full of uninformed, ego-centred idiots and they are generally filled with rubbish. The recommendations and opinions of many people here are worth a thousand times that of 'the popular press'.

The Soft Pack were recommended to me by Paul Warmth - a man of considered taste I've found - so I went to see them (yes indeed Spunder!) and thought they were fantastic. Since that night they've done... ...nothing. I later found out that the 'popular press' said they were the next big thing, and might end up as good as The Strokes (God help me, another 'great band' according to the NME, but easily one of the dullest bands I've ever seen). Yet The Soft Pack have vanished - very odd as they were shit hot in Leeds.
that was my point :wink:
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
sunray
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by sunray »

runcible wrote: This is going to turn into Flaming Lips territory soon. Such a similar thing happened to them. They brought out an album to gigantic critical acclaim and mass sales having had an incredibly consistent period of releases for 6-7 years prior but with a very different style of msuic. They took on loads of new fans but left a lot of old ones, me included, behind. People love the Lips era from Soft Bulletin onwards - I just don't get it so for me that band stopped in 1996, just as Verve effectively ceased in 1997.
To a lesser degree you could apply the same thing to Mercury Rev, Stereolab and Spiritualized. All three left me very depressed and disheartened in the late 90s. :arrow:
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by niamhm »

runcible wrote:
bunnyben wrote:i meant in the popular press.
:shock:
The 'popular press'?! Are you serious? I don't read any of it and can't remember the last occasion when I bought anything that can be considered part of it. I think I bought a Mojo about 18 months ago - because it had an article on PiL or Soft Machine or something. What is it anyway - the NME? Uncut? Q? All utterly disposable and all so badly written it's a mystery they still sell any copies.

99% of the music I am interested in has absolutely no coverage in the popular press (very different to 20 years ago where shit like the NME actually had something useful to say). These rags are stuffed full of uninformed, ego-centred idiots and they are generally filled with rubbish. The recommendations and opinions of many people here are worth a thousand times that of 'the popular press'.

The Soft Pack were recommended to me by Paul Warmth - a man of considered taste I've found - so I went to see them (yes indeed Spunder!) and thought they were fantastic. Since that night they've done... ...nothing. I later found out that the 'popular press' said they were the next big thing, and might end up as good as The Strokes (God help me, another 'great band' according to the NME, but easily one of the dullest bands I've ever seen). Yet The Soft Pack have vanished - very odd as they were shit hot in Leeds.
:shock:
you must feel better with that lot of your chest ? ....I think your being a touch unfair to Uncut though, usually a well written and informative read in my experience,and while not being a "space rock bible" a certain John Mulvey has pushed & reviewed many acts appreciated round these parts ,Wooden Shjips ,Sun Araw ,Carlton Melton ,White Hills and Purling Hiss being a few that spring to mind, as for NME and Q ? well yeah they`re shit ,but then their probably not aimed at me ,or you ,

but your right about the reliable rec. coming from the forum,always worth checking out and usually pretty good.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

I've bought Uncut and been unimpressed with the writing. I just don't buy any of the music press anymore. People's recommendations/descriptions are much better. And the knowledge of so many people here - from our old mucker $26 to current experts like Warmth, Redcloud, sonic124, spzretent, Sunray, Bza (sorry to those I missed - those are the first ones I thought of) - is so good I find most of the music I need from them. My reaction was that for someone to say Urban Hymns is better than what is in the popular press is saying nothing. One of the last NMEs I bought had a feature on Destiny's Child who are responsible for some of the worst music I have ever heard and they were claiming it was great. I used to be an NME subscriber but cancelled around that time.

The thing is I remember when the music press was indispensible - music, albums, gigs... You couldn't find out about them without the NME and Sounds, but then there was no internet then of course. Gradually the self-importance (which admittedly the NME already had but then they had good writers and knew what they were on about) took over. The NME bears no resemblance to what it was 15 years ago. Even in mags like Rock-A-Rolla, which feature occasional decent stuff, there's too much that isn't any good. So I gave up.

And I agree with Sunray about stuff like Stereolab and Mercury Rev - both went into sub-mediocrity in the 90s having been truly great bands. But the ultimate fall-from-grace culprits are Verve and the Lips.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by MODLAB »

runcible wrote: And I agree with Sunray about stuff like Stereolab and Mercury Rev - both went into sub-mediocrity in the 90s having been truly great bands. But the ultimate fall-from-grace culprits are Verve and the Lips.

I agree with you with 3 of 4. Stereolab and the direction they went into was great. I find myself listening to more and more of the later stuff with jazz and pop influences. They are one talented bunch... Trust me I love it when Tim hits the distortion pedal... But the french disco --------> jazzy pop is so well done. Really wonderful to listen to while wanting to lounge with a hearty cocktail.

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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by redcloud »

My favorite music mag (other than Optical Sounds, of course!) has to be Mike Stax's "Ugly Things". Although the music featured is rarely, if ever, contemporary. But, the people who write for the 25+ year fanzine are incredibly knowledgeable on their subject. And, as I am a sucker for 60's psych and punk music it appeals to my sweet spot! I've also been a faithful reader of the 'zine since my late teens.

Other than that, I too get most of my new/contemporary music recommendations from this forum. Perplexa's "Gone Beyond" being one of the best albums I have heard this year and had it not been for this forum I probably would never have discovered it. I also read our local Portland alternative paper, which has some ok reviews but they too don't explore deeply enough the type of music that I really love. Oh, and Julian Cope's site is pretty damn good too.

Regarding 'Urban Hymns'...funny, when it came out I was in England and I too wasn't taken by it and was somewhat surprised by its critical praise. 'Rolling People' and 'Catching the Butterfly' being my favorite tunes on it and as a pop song, 'Lucky Man' delivers but it's nothing more and nothing less than a radio friendly tune. For sheer psychedelic ferocity 'A Storm in Heaven' and 'Northern Soul' are incredible ALBUMS from start to finish and I have turned many friends on to them who may only have known the band through BSS. The beauty of these earlier records is that they are albums whose songs are meant to be heard in the context of what came before and after. There is also a freshness to what they were doing that was raw and exciting. 'UH' was a collection of "songs" almost aimed at the singles or radio market. That is a big difference in concept and approach to making music.

Flaming Lips? We have discussed this band up and down and inside out. I still stand by what I said a couple years ago. I absolutely LOVED this band and saw them several times when they were acid punk cowboys from Norman, Oklahoma. 'Clouds Taste Metallic' was, imho, their last decent album. But even it isn't great like 'Priest' or 'Future Head' (or even 'Oh My Gawwwd!, which holds a special spot in my heart). I was so utterly disappointed with "Soft Bulletin' that I jumped off the Lips wagon and have never seen them since nor bought anything else. I do have signed, unplayed copies of "SB" and "Yoshi" that a friend of mine who worked for VH1 in Camden gave me when the band came in for a recording session.

Hmmm...ebay? :roll:
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by runcible »

redcloud wrote:My favorite music mag (other than Optical Sounds, of course!) has to be Mike Stax's "Ugly Things". Although the music featured is rarely, if ever, contemporary. But, the people who write for the 25+ year fanzine are incredibly knowledgeable on their subject. And, as I am a sucker for 60's psych and punk music it appeals to my sweet spot! I've also been a faithful reader of the 'zine since my late teens.
Ha! Optical Sounds was set up by Dave to showcase the music he loves and because there isn't anything on the market that covers this area. I have leafed through Ugly Things but never sat down and read it - it does look good I must admit. But these are hardly the 'popular press' of course.

The days of publications like the excellent Bucketful of Brains and Freakbeat... even Lime Lizard and The Catalogue are far behind us, and generally the press is looking in the same direction as the music industry in general - i.e. money.

As for Stereolab. Despite the delight that greeted Emperor Tomato Ketchup that was the point where I lost interest. I can't believe they replaced one of the great drone machines with what people I know describe as 'French cafe songs'. And despite my loathing for the NME they gave a couple of Stereolab albums possibly the worst yet hilarious reviews I have ever read. One gave an album '1/10' 'for the satisfying sound it made when I snapped it over my knee' but nothing compared to what they wrote about 'Cobra and Phases -
'So, after scaling new heights up their own self-satisfied arses, Stereolab now make lame, impotent test-card muzak for muzos. And this album is a sexless, emotionless, witless, cripplingly self-indulgent, pompously self-satisfied, intellectually hollow, achingly pretentious, stultifyingly bland, spiritually bereft, ideologically bankrupt, aesthetically repugnant, culturally pointless, musically sterile heap of shit.'
If the band had any humour they'd have cut that out and included it in their Lab Report fan mag. The Heads got 0/10 in a Vox review and they loved it!
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by MODLAB »

Cobra and Phases is great.

Take a listen to Fuses or the Free Design... Jazzy and hypnotic...
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by simonkeeping »

Sorry to derail the thread slightly but I can shed a bit of light on this because of my background.
runcible wrote:The NME bears no resemblance to what it was 15 years ago.
Thats purely down to the fact that the publishing industry is in dire straits right now. I've been into see people at Q and NME trying to get freelance design work (this was a few years back) and they have no money, literally nothing. The only thing they can do to even try to stay afloat is to cover popular acts and not stray to far from the mainstream. It's hard work out there at the moment for any magazine as its seen as a luxury item which isn't a necessity. I understand your point about the press not covering certain elements of music that we on here really like, but its purely a cold hearted financial necessity.

I mean when Q interviewed Cheryl Cole (or whatever her name is now) they pretty much set out there stall there and then. Slightly higher brow music/celeb magazine. Its sad as I used to love buying music magazines, they we're I guess back in the day the lifeline to bands, new music, interviews and for me really great music photography. Especially for people in remote areas who couldn't get to shows and see the bands. It is funny though because as you get older and wiser you realise what alot of the reviewers and writers are saying is utter nonsense, and they haven't a clue what they are talking about. Alot more so now than back in the day.

Back to Urban Hymns...Wasn't there a demo on one of the BSS singles that was just the bells from the main track? Is that the loop they are talking about? I can see as well that 'the Rolling people' and 'Chasing the Butterfly' would be Nick's work as they are probably the only tracks on the album (barring Come on) that feature the guitars up front?
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by redcloud »

runcible wrote: Ha! Optical Sounds was set up by Dave to showcase the music he loves and because there isn't anything on the market that covers this area. I have leafed through Ugly Things but never sat down and read it - it does look good I must admit. But these are hardly the 'popular press' of course.
Which is exactly why I like them....pretty much most of the music I listen to isn't popular. Dave's "OS" has introduced me to some pretty wild bands that I honestly would never have heard of. With respects to insightful coverage of obscure, 60's/70's bands....I should send you a couple UT's. They are wonderful publications. I only wish I had kept some of the earlier issues. They are now all out of print and sell for large sums on eBay.
simonkeeping wrote: The only thing they can do to even try to stay afloat is to cover popular acts and not stray to far from the mainstream. I understand your point about the press not covering certain elements of music that we on here really like, but its purely a cold hearted financial necessity.
Which is exactly why they don't receive any of my money. Even when I am traveling and want a decent magazine to read I never splurge on a popular press music rag. It is just so full of fluff and nonsense that I don't care nor wish to waste time reading about. There was once a time when I read 'Mojo' with some regularity but they have become so repetitive in their articles that I haven't bought one for years. One can only read so many articles on Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Stones and Hendrix. Yawn! As it is imported it's pretty expensive over here too.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by scratch »

angelsighs wrote: I'm on the side of jadams here- Urban Hymns is definitely the weakest of the original run of Verve albums but still pretty impressive.
It is not a part of any "original run" - it´s a reunion album.. come on.. although it has a version of a song written during a storm in heaven, doesn´t mean the whole album magically can travel back in time to before they broke up.. and it certainly does not sound like it.

Reunion album #1: urban hymns = a few great songs+ a few great ep b-sides.
I have gotten rid of it three times ( bought it two times+freebie) -

perhaps a good strategy to increase sales?
making an album below the quality expected and yet have enough good moments to have you buy it several times before it finally sinks in that it really is something quite different than the band you used to love.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by redcloud »

scratch wrote: perhaps a good strategy to increase sales?
making an album below the quality expected and yet have enough good moments to have you buy it several times before it finally sinks in that it really is something quite different than the band you used to love.
Or the Matthew Katz approach to managing a band....release every song off their forth coming album as a single! And then when the LP comes out nobody buys it because they already have all the songs as 45's (e.g. Moby Grape)! One of the greatest examples of mismanagement ever. Especially considering how bloody awesome Moby Grape were.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by simonkeeping »

redcloud wrote:There was once a time when I read 'Mojo' with some regularity but they have become so repetitive in their articles that I haven't bought one for years. One can only read so many articles on Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Stones and Hendrix. Yawn! As it is imported it's pretty expensive over here too.
Same here! I bought Mojo as a last resort when I was travelling with work in the summer and was quite shocked when i saw it cost £4.50! £4.50 for a magazine? Seriously? And as you say theres a limit to how many times you can read about the making of Revolver/The Wall/Smile or the 34.5 year anniversary of Paul McCartneys recording a (really important) demo which was never released blah blah blah...dull. I find the best place to read about music now (or for the interviews at least) is the Quietus.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

runcible wrote:My reaction was that for someone to say Urban Hymns is better than what is in the popular press is saying nothing..

exactly. uh is a popular album- your grandmother would recognise bss and it is also an album that you bought therefore, whilst our opinions of the popular music are very similiar (i may be a bit more snobish), it is a popular album that you bought and enjoyed inpart
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

simonkeeping wrote:
redcloud wrote:There was once a time when I read 'Mojo' with some regularity but they have become so repetitive in their articles that I haven't bought one for years. One can only read so many articles on Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Stones and Hendrix. Yawn! As it is imported it's pretty expensive over here too.
Same here! I bought Mojo as a last resort when I was travelling with work in the summer and was quite shocked when i saw it cost £4.50! £4.50 for a magazine? Seriously? And as you say theres a limit to how many times you can read about the making of Revolver/The Wall/Smile or the 34.5 year anniversary of Paul McCartneys recording a (really important) demo which was never released blah blah blah...dull. I find the best place to read about music now (or for the interviews at least) is the Quietus.
i subscribed to mojo when there was an offer on- instead of 4.50 per issue i pay 20 for the year which if i get 5 i enjoy is already saving me money.

verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

bunnyben wrote:
verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
Did you ever see them live on either of the first 2 albums? There were quite honestly the best live band I have ever seen during that period. I still believe that to this day.
The other bit I couldn't disagree more with.
Admittedly i'm not a huge lyric guy.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

spzretent wrote:
bunnyben wrote:
verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
Did you ever see them live on either of the fist 2 albums? There were quite honestly the best live band I have ever seen during that period. I still believe that to this day.
The other bit I couldn't disagree more with.
Admittedly i'm not a huge lyric guy.
no, unfortunatly the only time i've seen them was in manchester on the reunion and i thought it was shit. i was hoping there would be gravity grave, slide away etc but it was just big hits and big sound, blah
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

They weren't very good on the UH tour either. Well the second leg. The first leg was still great.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by redcloud »

bunnyben wrote: a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water.
I don't think anybody is comparing early Verve to Spiritualized or JAMC. BUT, saying that BRMC "blow early Verve out of the water" is very, very debatable and, imho, treading dodgy ground. Admittedly, I don't know BRMC well enough to argue for or against. I do have BRMC's first LP and I saw them live a couple times when it first came out. They were decent...great fuzz bass and the gigs were atmospheric with all the smoke and red lights but musically I wouldn't say they blow early Verve away. In fact, far from it.

But, to be honest, I always liked Brian Jonestown more than BRMC. That's why I wasn't overly inspired to buy more of their albums. I've heard 'Howl' is good though.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by jadams501 »

bunnyben wrote: verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
With all due respect, i find this utterly flabbergasting... I could see somebody not really caring for verve, but brmc "blow them out of the water? That's like saying john cougar mellencamp is better than springsteen, or oasis is better than the stone roses, or loop is better than spacemen3.

That's not to insult brmc, who i quite like, but i don't think they're even near the same league as verve. They are solid dabblers in a genre that verve was an absolute giant of.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by Minky »

MODLAB wrote:Cobra and Phases is great.
I didn't like Cobra at all when it first came out but gave it another shot a couple of years later and it clicked for me. I would say it's probably my favorite album from that period of Stereolab.
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Post by BzaInSpace »

radioshack wrote:...As for lack of activity on this board, I'm kinda sad at the lack of love for Barry's 'Greatest Hits' thread. Surely that's a conversation starter?
Cheers - you woulda though so huh? But no.

We do get, however, 43 plus replies and in-depth discussion (again!) on one of the most tedious albums of the nineties (or ever) - a bloated, deathly dull exercise in utter blandness and mediocre ballads - 'Bittersweet Symphony' aside, the acclaim reserved for this album still baffles me.

Of course, anybody can write about anything they want (even the fuckin' Verve) but I think it's very discouraging that so much careful discourse is given to such a poor record - I could literally think of hundreds of albums that are far more deserving and definitely more interesting.

And what an all-time shit cover. Even Richard's hat looks daft.

Carry on... :twisted:

'
O P 8
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Re: The Drugs Don't Work? Aye, they fuckin' do...

Post by redcloud »

BzaInSpace wrote: We do get, however, 43 plus replies and in-depth discussion (again!) on one of the most tedious albums of the nineties (or ever) - a bloated, deathly dull exercise in utter blandness and mediocre ballads - 'Bittersweet Symphony' aside, the acclaim reserved for this album still baffles me.

Of course, anybody can write about anything they want (even the fuckin' Verve) but I think it's very discouraging that so much careful discourse is given to such a poor record - I could literally think of hundreds of albums that are far more deserving and definitely more interesting.

And what an all-time shit cover. Even Richard's hat looks daft.

Carry on... :twisted:

'
Well, there WAS a decent attempt to divert the conversation of UH by discussing the blight of decent music mags. :wink:
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by Kurious Oranj »

love the album but that cover is pretty embarrassing

as for them being shit live around this era i'm no expert but this performance of rolling people at wiggan is pretty monstrous
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

Compare it to this these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzIeyLJ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywYJf1x ... re=related

Seems like two different bands. Especially the vocal stylings of one RA.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by bunnyben »

jadams501 wrote:
bunnyben wrote: verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
With all due respect, i find this utterly flabbergasting... I could see somebody not really caring for verve, but brmc "blow them out of the water? That's like saying john cougar mellencamp is better than springsteen, or oasis is better than the stone roses, or loop is better than spacemen3.

That's not to insult brmc, who i quite like, but i don't think they're even near the same league as verve. They are solid dabblers in a genre that verve was an absolute giant of.
for me they have two great albums brmc and howl. brmc just feel like a more accomplished album than storm in heaven ( i really don't get the jamc tag). nothern... has its moments but lacks the cohesion of an album
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by niamhm »

spzretent wrote:Compare it to this these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzIeyLJ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywYJf1x ... re=related

Seems like two different bands. Especially the vocal stylings of one RA.
Spzretent ,,gotta say I much prefer KO`s youtube clip from Wigan ,that performance & the crowd reaction ,f8ckin` smoking ,do i understand correctly you prefer the Voyager stuff?
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by MODLAB »

niamhm wrote:
spzretent wrote:Compare it to this these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzIeyLJ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywYJf1x ... re=related

Seems like two different bands. Especially the vocal stylings of one RA.
Spzretent ,,gotta say I much prefer KO`s youtube clip from Wigan ,that performance & the crowd reaction ,f8ckin` smoking ,do i understand correctly you prefer the Voyager stuff?

Damn good 10 years on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYIoMC8G ... re=related

M
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by niamhm »

memory maybe playing tricks on me ,but I seem to remember the Haigh Hall show was supposed to come out as a video/dvd at the time ,seem to remember even reading a review of it in Select mag. at the time ,what ever happened to that ? the crowd reaction at about 0.20 sec. in the Rolling People clip is just nuts! they seem to be going crazy as far as the eye can see,
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by niamhm »

bunnyben wrote:
jadams501 wrote:
bunnyben wrote: verve- pre storm- some very good singles (gravity grave etc)
storm- some good tracks- pretty shit lyrics in most parts but very nice sound and texture
northern soul- incomplete album, few good tracks
uh- the most complete album- shame about clunky songs like sonnet and lucky man yet without it i would have never 'discovered' the verve when i was 15/16 and then gone and found ns and sih

a good band but not a great band (as i thought when i was in my late teens), spz, brmc, jamc etc blow them out of the water. i haven't listened to them for quite a while now (with the exception of gravity grave which i put on a two cd comp to introduce a freind to my kind of music)
With all due respect, i find this utterly flabbergasting... I could see somebody not really caring for verve, but brmc "blow them out of the water? That's like saying john cougar mellencamp is better than springsteen, or oasis is better than the stone roses, or loop is better than spacemen3.

That's not to insult brmc, who i quite like, but i don't think they're even near the same league as verve. They are solid dabblers in a genre that verve was an absolute giant of.
for me they have two great albums brmc and howl. brmc just feel like a more accomplished album than storm in heaven ( i really don't get the jamc tag). nothern... has its moments but lacks the cohesion of an album
don`t know how you can say that ,A Northern Soul is the most cohesive album they ever made ,to my ears,
also I like BRMC ,big fan really ,caught them 8/9 times now ,but I wouldn`t put them in the same class as The Verve ,saw Verve 4 times and 1 night is up their with the best live shows I ever saw,as much as I enjoy BRMC and they give a good night out ,they`ve never measured up to a night like the one I`m thinking off.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spunder »

until the release of UH the most amazing live experiences i ever did have.....in 92/93/95 utterley unstoppable. shamanic
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

niamhm wrote:
Spzretent ,,gotta say I much prefer KO`s youtube clip from Wigan ,that performance & the crowd reaction ,f8ckin` smoking ,do i understand correctly you prefer the Voyager stuff?
Yes. you are correct. What I dislike about Haigh Hall is this is the full blown Richard Ashcroft many of us have come to loathe.
With the Voyager 1 material and all the way thru the ANS tours it was Nick McCabe's band. His guitar just oozed molten lava. It was extraordinary. I think that Haigh Hall material is very pedestrian. Not otherworldly like they were capable of. In my opinion this was a conscious decision on the part of RA. He wanted to be the center of attention. Like he knew his solo career was around the corner. Gone was the stoned, barefoot Jaggeresque lead singer. Again, just my opinion.
At the end of the day I will say I am thankful for the first two Verve records. I was really excited when BSS was released. The rest of that record was a massive let down to me. I dont hate it. I just dont ever play it.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by Shinesalight »

Oh good, its that "Verve were much better when they ween't so massive" thread again!!! I think there's a danger of being slightly elitist with the whole, Urban Hymms is load of old toss argument. The trouble is, even from an early stage, you could always see that The Verve wanted to be a massive band. Unfortunately it took Oasis to champion them and the huge single that was BSS to get them there and then that brought out all the lads and geezers who suddenly took an interest. I honestly don't think UH is a disaster, though it is obviously nothing like its predecessors. And, without coming across as patronyising and condesending, UH was a lot of people's entry point into the band and for them (and I'm talking of the likes of Bunnyben and other's here) it was and probably remains a pivotal record. It was huge, but still not quite in the mainstream. I remember it being played relentlessly while I was at Uni.

I was lucky that I got to see them in a tiny venue in Brighton when they had just released All In The Mind and being totally mesmerised by Ashcroft. As an 18 year old indie boy it was him that got my attention, not McCabe's intricate guitar work. I bought the next few singles but kinda lost track of them for one reason or the other and didn't come back to them till UH. I don't think it was untill I really started getting onto this forum that I got re-introduced to them and rediscovered ASIH and ANS. For that, and for a hundred other recomendations, I am forever in your debt.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

With all due respect I would say this band was most certainly Nick McCabe's in a live setting early on. I'm not sure even he realized that. Its not elitist. It is just my perception. I recall closing my eyes and getting enveloped in the the thick, swirling, suffocating sound coming from the stage. Certainly not transfixed by the lead singer.
I understand also that most people's entry point was UH. That doesn't change my opinion nor my desire to express it whenever this topic comes up.
I love those first two records. And their live shows during that period were absolutely mind blowing. What happened after that was predictable and too bad.
Next up the Flaming Lips...... :lol:
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by Shinesalight »

spzretent wrote:Certainly not transfixed by the lead singer.

Yeah, I guess I can see why your eyes woldn't have been drawn to "Mad" Richard in those early days :wink: :-

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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

Those guys used to smoke so much pot I would never hold him responsible for his antics. I'm sure they were just a reaction to the sound coming off that stage just like mine was as a paying customer.
I remember looking at the bank of pedals in front of Nick McCabe wondering how you know when to use which one. There were so many. But then again i'm no musician.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by jadams501 »

spzretent wrote:With the Voyager 1 material and all the way thru the ANS tours it was Nick McCabe's band. His guitar just oozed molten lava. It was extraordinary
I agree with you that there was a lot to be missed about the days when it was all about the huge cosmic soundscapes, but I don't think one can say that it was McCabe's band because Ashcroft was always the driver and focal point. He edited down the material and hustled for the gigs, etc.

The slow progress of the Black Ships (are they dead in the water?) is a pretty good demonstration of Ashcroft's significance to the band.
bunnyben wrote:for me they have two great albums brmc and howl. brmc just feel like a more accomplished album than storm in heaven ( i really don't get the jamc tag). nothern... has its moments but lacks the cohesion of an album
I quite like most of the debut and a handful of tracks from each of their other albums, but to me BRMC are a very stylish kind of tribute band that fills the niche for that general kind of sound to be played but are second fiddle to their inspirations. Not that BRMC aren't good, but Verve were shamanic pioneers wastedly blazing uncharted new trails of cosmic sound. BRMC are a tight unit that plays good gigs.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

jadams501 wrote:
spzretent wrote:With the Voyager 1 material and all the way thru the ANS tours it was Nick McCabe's band. His guitar just oozed molten lava. It was extraordinary
I agree with you that there was a lot to be missed about the days when it was all about the huge cosmic soundscapes, but I don't think one can say that it was McCabe's band because Ashcroft was always the driver and focal point. He edited down the material and hustled for the gigs, etc.
.
I stand corrected. That wasn't what I meant.
I meant live, Nick McCabe's guitar was the launching pad, the part that blew you away. And it stayed like that pretty much thru the first leg of the US Urban Hymns tour.
By the time they reached Haigh Hall it wasn't like that. At all.
I have stated before that Verve needed RA. He was the one that got the engine running and got things done. Unfortunately(in my opinion).
It doesn't get lost on me that you never hear the others bitching about him. Its just us :wink:
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by niamhm »

spzretent wrote:With all due respect I would say this band was most certainly Nick McCabe's in a live setting early on. I'm not sure even he realized that. Its not elitist. It is just my perception. I recall closing my eyes and getting enveloped in the the thick, swirling, suffocating sound coming from the stage. Certainly not transfixed by the lead singer.
I understand also that most people's entry point was UH. That doesn't change my opinion nor my desire to express it whenever this topic comes up.
I love those first two records. And their live shows during that period were absolutely mind blowing. What happened after that was predictable and too bad.
Next up the Flaming Lips...... :lol:
The flaming Lips ?,not going their as I know you hate their best album and I can sense the way that would go ,but back to the Verve,Saw them before the first album and it was underwhelming ,dull even ,UH was not my entry point ,bought All In The Mind when it came out ,If you saw them around that time and they were the best thing you ever saw then good for you ,but having saw them later ,they developed ,ANS is the high water mark for the Verve for me IMO, and UH is a close second , some of the early stuff is embarassing really ,the waving the hands about ,claiming to fly and forgetting to put your effing shoes on ,gimme a break ,the Verve never got better ? bolllox ,they turned into a mind blowing rockn` roll machine ,you think the Haigh Hall clip the dude stuck up was pedestrian ,sorry ,looked to me as if 30,000 folks were losing their mind to the Verve ,if you want pedestrian stick that Voyager back on ,sounds like its 5 rev. to slow ,and the samples tacked on to each song are embarassing ,in fact if that and the first album was all they released ,then they would have been forgotten about a long time ago.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by spzretent »

I beg to differ. It all boils down to what you are looking for. I am never looking at a hometown crowd of 30,000 going nuts. That means absolutely nothing to me. If that was what I wanted I would just watch U2 at whatever Irish castle they release dvds from.
You like what you like. I like what I like. I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I'm telling you what got me off as a Verve fan. It became very different by the time they played Haigh Hall. And that was something I am So not into. My opinion. I just threw up the links because I think they are monstous. And it points out the difference in those incarnations of Verve. Unfortunately no video accompanies it.
What is the Lips best record? I didn't know it was etched in stone or fact.
Soft Bulletin? Yoshimi? Post noise era. I could care less. They all meld into one giant piece of shit. To further illustrate my point and just how much I hate those Lips records I bought that Heady Nuggs box set because I wanted Hit To Death on vinyl. I also wanted Transmissions and Clouds Taste Metallic. I sold the other two Soft Bulletin & Yoshimi. So I have my own personal Heady Nuggs box set which consists of Oh My Gawd, In A Priest Driven Ambulance, Hit To Death, Transmissions and Clouds Taste Metallic.
They have sold tons of records since I leapt off the bandwagon. Obviously they are right. They are much more successful. Enjoy them and all their stuffed animals, fake blood and giant balloon zaniness. At the end of the its whats on the records. And I really dislike them. Just my opinion again.
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Kurious Oranj
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by Kurious Oranj »

spzretent wrote:Compare it to this these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzIeyLJ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywYJf1x ... re=related

Seems like two different bands. Especially the vocal stylings of one RA.
both sound good to me.. but i guess you've drawn a line in the sand for whatever reason. i don't particularly care about the crowd either, but the music sounds rip roaring to me.

where did this BRMC vs. the verve come from? weird

i hate the flaming lips.. they went from a mediocre psych rock band to an annoyingly bubbly psych pop band (as you said giant balloons).. yoshimi is so cutesy its nauseating
Last edited by Kurious Oranj on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Urban Hymns

Post by redcloud »

Kurious Oranj wrote:
i hate the flaming lips
They were once a truly great band. But, I side completely with spzretent on their later work ('SB' is also when I jumped off the boat and haven't listened to anything from them since).

I'll take those early Lips shows with fog machines, film projectors aimed on the venue ceiling and their 10 minute freak out versions of "one million billionth of a millisecond on a sunday morning" over anything they have done since about 1998 or so.
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