General opinion on new songs?

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angelsighs
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General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

I know we have been discussing the new songs a lot in various threads (mainly the gig threads) but thought I would start this one to talk about them in a general sense. so, now we have all had a while to listen to the bootlegs, whats the general feeling?

Hey Jane- love this song. this is right up there with Jason's best. it's got it all- pounding chord riff, those fantastic melodic high notes that Doggen adds, the patented Spz wall of noise and a sublime krautrock detour into gospel outro. heavenly.

Hey Little Girl- rather below par for me, a harmless bit of pop fluff. melodic enough but needs more interest, or a middle eight or something. lyrics are like something Bobby Gillespie would come up with

Get What You Deserve- brilliant. like Hey Jane, subtly packs a lot of styles in one.. intro is very electric mainline with those buzzing keyboards, but it's a proper song too. great bassline, the way it comes back in after the noise bit is great and not just a rerun of similar bit in Hey Jane

Too Late- lovely, I don't mind ballads when they are as good as this. it's less jaunty than the acoustic mainlines version but has gained a nice middle eight. lyrics simple but lovely. the strings at RAH added a nice bit of colour, and like the 'pinging' guitar notes

Heading For The Top- awesome, the piano stabs are very rock n roll and this song is ruled by Doggen's fantastically noisy guitar playing.. love all those screeching noises he does, but the main riff is also really catchy. the squalling horns mixed in there at RAH made it even better.. like the horns were duelling with Doggens noise...I like it when Jason uses them for a bit of noise rather than just filling out arrangements in a cliched way. if i was nit picking the song does lack dynamics.. it just thunders in for a few minutes, then ends.

Freedom- like Hey Little Girl, melodic enough but rather bland. not much more to say really. slide licks are quite nice.

I Am What I Am- a great voodoo groove, love that rolling bassline, and some more noise from Doggen, fantastic drums too. this stood out for me when I saw it at the gigs but wouldn't say my appreciation has deepened anymore since then... perhaps need an extra factor that the studio version may bring..another one that could do with a bit more dynamics maybe?

Jesus Wont You Be- used to like this, but have gone off it. might just be bored of it but it's slower now and a bit of a mood killer. like Too Late, the strings at RAH did add a bit of interest though. bored of Jesus-this/Lord-that type lyrics too.

Mary- one of my initial favourites, it's a bit of a space blues. great bassline... hasn't grown on me much though and has been overtaken by other favourites. better at RAH with more texture such as horn stabs at end. ending reminds me of Ballad of Richie Lee.

Poppy> So Long- some bits of this are good.. love the piano notes hanging in space at beginning, the despairing first section is nice (but wish he would tone down the Jesus stuff again), but the second section goes on for far too long, it need a bit more spaciness or something. it's all a bit Britpoppy? maybe the studio version will bring something else to it

in summary, I'm very excited about this album. the best 3 songs or so are so good the rest of it could have been just electric phase noises and I'd have been happy!! :) even the songs I dislike are just plain bland rather than offensive. when Jason says it's a poppy album I know what he means.. even the dronier songs have really good melodies and hooks.
it is good to have a couple of 10 minuters in there.. A&E was a great collection of songs but it was a little 'bitty' with lots of short songs

I haven't listened to the lyrics much thus far.. but what I've heard is okay.. apart from isolated moments, the band were never really a 'lyrical' act anyway.

just hope the studio versions don't mix all the life out of them with this apparent 'clarity' Jason is going for on this record. some of the A&E song sounded a bit dry and flat compared to the luminous versions on the acoustic mainlines tour..
interesting to see what he does with the full arrangements too (although the RAH gave us a flavour of that, the sound wasn't great was it?)
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

ive only heard the 2 songs on the guardian website

i like Hey Jane a lot more than So Long Pretty Things

i have to say i'm getting a little tired of the lyrical cliches myself.. both songs have references to "lord", "jesus" and "fire" it's like come on.. i know he's clearly a music first/lyrics second guy but it's a bit disheartening
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

yeah Hey Jane beats So Long hands down..
that's not even the best version of Hey Jane either.. it sounded a bit limp.. on the bootlegs it sounds much more meaty.

I can guess what Jason would say about his lyrics, he would say that he is just working with universal themes, or themes that connect all his work, or something. but it can be laziness sometimes.
lyrics don't have to be poetry, they just have to fit the music and not be too embarrassing. that said, when Jason puts his mind to it his lyrics can be really good- Songs in A&E had a lot of good ones, and the odd song like Don't Just Do Something or I Think I'm In Love are superb
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Broc »

Kurious Oranj wrote:ive only heard the 2 songs on the guardian website

i like Hey Jane a lot more than So Long Pretty Things

i have to say i'm getting a little tired of the lyrical cliches myself.. both songs have references to "lord", "jesus" and "fire" it's like come on.. i know he's clearly a music first/lyrics second guy but it's a bit disheartening
^^^ This. Other Voices was the first time hearing any new stuff. Hey Jane sounded great and a little different so hopefully more of the same. The others were kinda uninteresting. And as I said already the Lord/Jesus/Fire repetition is beginning to turn me off Spz. Hope there's less of that on the new one.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Spiby »

I'm going to stick my neck out here, and say I actually LOVE 'So Long' - one of my favourite Spiz songs in a long time (there again 'Going Down Slow' is one of my all time favourites...). Admittedly the last section does repeat 2 or 3 times too many. Or at least it did the first few times I heard it but now I'm, like, "is it already over?"

The part where it moves from the 'Help Me Father...' bit to the 'So Long' section brings me out in goosebumps every time I hear it - especially on the RAH version with the strings.

If there was any weak part on the new album, IMHO, it would be "Jesus Won't You Be", which never has really done it for me. And is it me, or are Jason's vocals a bit flat on Hey Jane? It's been the same the three different version I've heard (Leamington, RAH and Ireland), so my head says it's intentional, but it's just not quite right somehow...

Cracking riffs throughout - can't wait to hear the studio versions.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by TheWarmth »

I'm surprised at the negativity towards "Life Is A Problem / Jesus Won't You Be ..". I think that song is tremendous. The jesus/lord lyrics don't bother me because they seem so appropriate for the gospel style that the song is written in. However, I do cringe a bit with all of the jesus/lord stuff on "So Long" and, for the most part, I do agree that he should start to move away from that language as it is getting a bit tired.

"Too Late" is that song that I'm really addicted to now. I think the sparse-ness of the ballads makes them come off a big better on bootleg recordings, because there isn't as much going on to muddy the mix. Once we have the studio album in hand, I think I will really start to get into the heavier, louder material.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

I seem to remember having exactly the same discusion 3 albums back.

I'm super tired of the phoned in themes, redemptive religious tones etc etc.

I remember when I first got LGM on day of release and it blew my mind.

Once the ballads started appearing I've been less inclined towards every release since LICD which I personally think is a great record.

Every few years he trots out the same lines in interviews, Brian Wilson, Clear Spot, Classic sounds etc etc and the resulting album has, to me always either been partially or wholly disappointing.

For me the best musicians evolve and their music evolves with them, it doesn't need to be a million miles away from the core sound, but simply regurgitating the same tunes over and over again and diluting what was once orignal just seems artistically pointless.

Jason should listen to his own interviews, time and again he has stated that he does want to make the same record over and over and the most interesting thing for him is when he is in uncharted territories and he doesn't know how the music is going to turn out....then releases a record that deals with exactly the same themes he always has and sticks to the wafer thin sonic template.

Every new Spiritualized record for me since Let it come down has been like an old favourite pair of jeans, comfy, familiar but a little bit more worn out than their last outing and like that old pair of jeans I wonder if its actually worth returning to them or if I should just throw them out...

I reckon he should let Doggen write the next album.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

i haven't even listened to the whole of the bootlegs- only hey jane and too late (both of which i cannot resist) the rest i'm making myself wait for the album- i feel i've become spolit by so much easy access to music, i want it to mean as much as it used to mean before when i could only afford one album every month or so and had never downloaded. as far as the comparison to other spz albums, who cares. this is a new album (with a sickly take of a velvets album title) and is it as good as the currently vogue 'hypnotised' dunno- it's not important, it's just another album by someone i've never met and i'll view it as an album- not a continuation or departure etc. it's just music- if you listen and enjoy you listen and enjoy- if you don't you don't. end of.
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

How can you, as a Spiritualized fan possibly judge this record solely on its own merits and not within the context of previous releases? Are you going to wipe your memory before listening? Music and art are considered within a context and not in a vacum. You purchase Spiritualized records because you like the band surely? So isn't this a continuation...
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by sunray »

angelsighs wrote: the band were never really a 'lyrical' act anyway.
:shock: Always thought the lyrics were of huge importance myself, but yeah, the Jesus/Lord/Fire stuff has gotten embarrassing.
They Transmit wrote:Every new Spiritualized record for me since Let it come down has been like an old favourite pair of jeans, comfy, familiar but a little bit more worn out than their last outing and like that old pair of jeans I wonder if its actually worth returning to them or if I should just throw them out...
I've felt like that since L&G and was very close to giving up after the AG and A&E tours but this is the first time i'm actually excited by new material since '97.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

if i heared the album without knowing the band i'd like to think it would have the same impact on me if i know the band. i could just dig out some tribal religious music from centuries ago and say i don't need to listen to anything else for this is music and every record released since is just a continuation. if i sat there listening to an album and going 'o he said this word before' or ' i recognise this cord from another song' then i would be a spz fan but i'd rather be a music fan and take it all at face value and not worry about the rise and decline of blah blah (no album can match lgm- for it is probably his worse album :wink: *yawns*)

it's like looking at a van gogh and going 'it's good but i haven't really liked his work since Paul Gauguin cut off his ear by mistake' that would just make art very very very dull and utterly pointless
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by TheWarmth »

Not sure I can agree with everything in your long post, Neil. Yes, the lyrical themes haven't changed much and many of us have voiced varying degrees of frustration with the heavy use of religious terminology. However, I completely disagree that Pierce has been "regurgitating the same tunes over and over again and diluting what was once original". I think his songwriting has grown leaps and bounds since the days of LGM and each album has a unique vibe to my ears and unquestionably different sounds in terms of production and arrangements. Songs In A&E, for example, sounds vastly different than LGM. There's no question in my mind about that. Also, maybe our definitions of "ballad" differ, but in my mind every album has them. Isn't "If I Were With Her Now" a ballad? The arrangement is more trippy and spacey than, say, "Broken Heart", but it's still a very mellow, heartfelt song.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

I think all art is viewed within context, socially, politically, culturally or historically. I judge a record on what I deem artistically interesting and the last few album aren't something I'm overly impressed with. It's difficult for me to judge a spz record out of context and I'm fairly sure impossible for most visitors to this site.

I just don't think they are very well written songs from what I've heard so far. The arrangements are to my ears like Spiritualized by numbers. All innovation appears to have gone, the song writing and arrangements, i think are terribly pedestrian now.

I think Hey Jane is the best thing I've heard from the new record as its arrangement was a surprise an unexpected twist in the format and all the more welcome for it. The rest, sad to say just left me a little bored.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bcastle21 »

...and all these opinions are coming in without hearing the actual record.

That being said, if the sound is anything close to the RAH gig, this may be the best release since Ladies and Gentlemen. "Jesus/Lord/Fire" is what Jason is about. If you don't like it, find another band to listen to.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

for all the talk of this being a "pop album" those first 2 tracks dont sound very pop to me.. they sound pretty typical spiritualized

and theyre also like 10 minutes long :lol:
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

Well I have heard it haven't I, all being in the live context, the same context you have heard it in and are proclaiming it as good as ladies and gents.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by shalloboi »

i have a difficult time being disappointed in anything jason's done so far. i'm not sure if my standards are just low, or if i'm just deluded, but i can't think of a spiritualized record that i can listen to in its entirety and feel even the slightest twinge of disappointment at any point. each album seems very much to be its own thing to me, and yet they're all very much part of a body of work. jason's always written lyrics that return to the same well thematically time and time again- i'm not a person who cares much about lyrics. to me people place far too much emphasis on them and really what's most important to me is that lyrics not be jarringly bad so as to remove me from the experience of listening to the entire picture (nothing can pull me out of an otherwise enjoyable musical moment like hearing a bad lyric). personally, jason's themes have never bothered me. he's largely alone in his exploration of them in modern music. i find it incredibly intriguing to hear an openly atheistic artist exploring religious themes in his lyrics as well as a heartfelt passion for gospel music- who else is doing this these days? no one. at all. i find it heartening (as an atheist myself) to walk around after a rough day at work listening to 'poppy'/'so long' on my headphones on my way home and having pleas with religious imagery bring tears to my eyes. it just speaks to me and i don't know why- it's mining something very primal and ingrained to the point where it strips religious imagery and language of all of its bullshit and trappings and distills it into its core essence- at some point, whether we all believe that we're alone in our lives, we desire a being of some kind (imaginary or not) to provide us some sort of comfort when we are in need. no one else is mining material like this, so as far as i'm concerned he can continue this 'help me lord/jesus/fire' stuff as long as he wants to. as long as it seems heartfelt and awakens the same emotions in me, i don't really care if its a device he's already used. what's more he doesn't use it in every song.
'mary' is still my favourite out of all of the songs on the RAH bootleg. 'hey jane' is fantastic. i don't really dislike any of the new songs- occasionally 'hey little girl' strikes me as a bit peripheral, but i still listen to it and find it enjoyable for what it is. 'i am what i am' is fucking awesome! 'too late' is even lovelier than i remember it being on the acoustic mainlines bootleg (i have a soft spot for string arrangements like that- gorgeous) and i like 'jesus won't you be...' just as much as ever. there are times where i wish that it hadn't really been changed from the version they were playing live on the A&E tour, but i also kind of like the cold, clinical, world-weary vibe it has in the new arrangement. again, i also like the strings. 'freedom' i'm a bit ambivalent about. 'straight to the top' comes to me at different times during the day and always puts a smile on my face when it does. one of the best things about the RAH bootleg is this kind of sleazy soul-vibe that the songs seem to have. the strings in 'mary' mixed with all of the fantastic bluesy guitars make it sound like it wouldn't sound out of place on the 'superfly' soundtrack, which is fucking amazing! i'm really excited to hear the studio versions of these songs and i'm dying to catch the band playing them live.
i find it very interesting that spiritualized fans often fall into two camps- people who just want them to recycle 'lazer guided melodies' and 'pure phase' ad infinitum and are constantly disappointed when they don't and then people who claim jason is just repeating himself over and over again. it seems a bit incongruous and really speaks for itself. i admire jason for being able to stay true to what he wants to do and taking the time to get it done properly.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

No you've missed the point entirely. People that harp on about lgm etc etc don't want him to endlessly churn out those records over and over again they want him to continue to be innovative and ground breaking in his approach to music and not continually repeat the same record over and over again.
As the previous poster mentioned Van Gough, it'd be like him painting Sunflowers for the rest of his career cos that worked out well once.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by shalloboi »

could anyone possibly listen to 'let it come down,' 'amazing grace' and 'songs in a&e' and make any kind of remotely honest claim that they are the signs of an artist repeating themselves? i'm sorry but, no. definitely not.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by jesus son »

I think They Transmit has got it absolutely bang on.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by BzaInSpace »

Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.

Like I said in another thread, and has been said here too, the "ballads" have been there from the very beginning - certainly way before Lazer Guided Melodies, which was hardly an album of uptempo rockers anyway.

I find the comments abouts J's lyrical themes just laughable - it's like complaining about Little Richard singing about girls and cars, or the Beach Boys singing about girls and the beach, or Mark Lanegan singing about death, or crucially the Staple Singers singing gospel: It's just what he does!

Again, it's been there from the start. And also, see those interviews around A&E in which he sorta revealed it was the use and play of rock and roll language and whatever, and he definitely admitted he was using a sort of limited vocabulary which he loved. I dunno, for me it just works.

I'd question what you actually want to hear being sung - there's always, y'know, Coldplay for those who wish to see the english language being completely rewired into interesting new combinations. :wink:

Lastly, I hope Jason never takes musical advice from so-called 'fans'.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Broc »

Like others have said the lyrics can be somewhat secondary to Spiritualized as long as the music stands up, I've already said (twice) that I'm totally bored with the Jesus/Lord/Fire thing. The main thing for me is the music has just been dull the last few albums and in that case the J/L/F aspect sticks out more and is boring.

And the reason I'm here in 2011 is I've been a fan since 1987. I hope things will change a little with the new one..
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

there does seem to be a bit of a contradiction here.. on one hand people are saying that Jason shouldn't keep making the same record, on the other hand people are saying how good LGM was and how he has moved away from that and is writing too many ballads..
he has evolved, he just has evolved in a way you don't particularly like!!

the two Spz records that sound most alike are LGM and PP anyway, in my opinion. they are companion pieces.
LICD sounds nothing like L&G, and then AG was another change...

I will admit that i miss the more experimental side of the band, the stuff like Electric Mainline and the quasi-electronic ambience, the 13 minute singles etc. but Jason has just decided to move towards classic songcraft, it's still in the same universe of sound as his previous stuff, just looking at it from a different angle. I love all phases of the bands career, pretty much (AG is a bit lacklustre but a noble experiment, and A&E has some weak songs.. but apart from that)
sunray wrote: :shock: Always thought the lyrics were of huge importance myself,.
seriously? some of the lyrics on the early stuff is pretty poor or basic. Jason almost never talks about his lyrics in interviews, and you never hear a fan go "hey check out this band Spiritualized, their lyrics are amazing!!"
like I said, though, there are exceptions. Don't Just Do Something is a lyrical masterpiece, and I love the sole two lines of Smiles. and if the music is good it doesnt matter. Lay Back In The Sun has cookie cutter lyrics but the song is so good, who cares.
shalloboi wrote: each album seems very much to be its own thing to me, and yet they're all very much part of a body of work. .
hear hear :)
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by simonkeeping »

BzaInSpace wrote:Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.
I'd agree with this. He's made no secret that the lyrics on all the albums are inspired by the blues/rock and roll (baby, lord etc etc), if you don't like him using the word lord alot then you're are probably not going to like the new album, or infact any of the others. This is the first time he's consciously gone out to record a pop album. Don't forget, he almost left Soul on Fire off the last album purely because he didn't see Spiritualized as a pop act. So as he said in the interview, small steps. He wants to pay tribute to the music he loves and that means the world to him. Pop being lost or leftfield pop albums...I don't know what people expect when they talk about the new albums each time they near release? Its Spiritualized, it's going to be a well thought out piece of music, the songs on it, whether they work for you or not, will be good. its going to have guitars on, some organs, singing and drums. Maybe some choirs/strings if the songs are written with that in mind. He's moved on from LGM, theres not going to be another album like that. This is what he's doing now, Im just grateful for the fact he's still making music which means so much to me.

but no its always, he's lost it etc etc Its not as good as blah blah blah...
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Kurious Oranj
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

BzaInSpace wrote:Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.
not really that bothered to be honest

mildly interested in the new album but not expecting to be blown away
BzaInSpace wrote: I find the comments abouts J's lyrical themes just laughable - it's like complaining about Little Richard singing about girls and cars, or the Beach Boys singing about girls and the beach, or Mark Lanegan singing about death, or crucially the Staple Singers singing gospel: It's just what he does!
that's a pretty weak straw man argument

ON FIRE
SOUL ON FIRE
I GOTTA FIRE
SITTING ON FIRE

how can anyone not think this is starting to get silly? and thats just song titles
Last edited by Kurious Oranj on Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by olan »

I have only heard "Life is a Problem" definitely (and maybe I am what a am years ago 2004ish) live. I have avoided listening to the new songs from the recent gigs (I have downloaded them). I want to buy the LP on vinyl, open a bottle of something nice, and experience it as something NEW or FRESH. Roll on March
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

the lyrical motif that I find weird is the talking about what his mother said- this is in Too Late, Dont Just Do Something and Baby I'm Just A Fool...
why is something his mum said so important??
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by BzaInSpace »

Kurious Oranj wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote:Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.
not really that bothered to be honest

mildly interested in the new album but not expecting to be blown away
Well... you said it. :roll:
Kurious Oranj wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote: I find the comments abouts J's lyrical themes just laughable - it's like complaining about Little Richard singing about girls and cars, or the Beach Boys singing about girls and the beach, or Mark Lanegan singing about death, or crucially the Staple Singers singing gospel: It's just what he does!
that's a pretty weak straw man argument
No, I don't think it is - I believe it gets 'right to the heart of the matter'. Can you possibly expand?
Kurious Oranj wrote:ON FIRE
SOUL ON FIRE
I GOTTA FIRE
SITTING ON FIRE

how can anyone not think this is starting to get silly? and thats just song titles
You forgot about PLAYING WITH FIRE.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by simonkeeping »

I love the way alot of people on here are slating the album 2 months before they've actually heard it. Amazing.
Anyway care to pass comment on the album he's not started yet?

He uses the words fire, sun, lord, space, baby in most of his songs. They are called recurring lyrical themes.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

yeah, theyve been 'recurring' for almost as long as i've been alive

and musically i'm not hearing anything different from AG/LiCD (so far)
They Transmit wrote: The arrangements are to my ears like Spiritualized by numbers.
what he said
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by musicheals2 »

Spiby wrote:I'm going to stick my neck out here, and say I actually LOVE 'So Long' - one of my favourite Spiz songs in a long time (there again 'Going Down Slow' is one of my all time favourites...). Admittedly the last section does repeat 2 or 3 times too many. Or at least it did the first few times I heard it but now I'm, like, "is it already over?"

The part where it moves from the 'Help Me Father...' bit to the 'So Long' section brings me out in goosebumps every time I hear it - especially on the RAH version with the strings.

If there was any weak part on the new album, IMHO, it would be "Jesus Won't You Be", which never has really done it for me. And is it me, or are Jason's vocals a bit flat on Hey Jane? It's been the same the three different version I've heard (Leamington, RAH and Ireland), so my head says it's intentional, but it's just not quite right somehow...

Cracking riffs throughout - can't wait to hear the studio versions.
I second it and don't care what anyone says. Along with I Am What I Am (which brings fresh life to an old song) it's the best of the new stuff for me and I too get goosebumps everytime through that second half. It's immense on the Albert Hall version
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

musicheals2 wrote: I Am What I Am (which brings fresh life to an old song)
great song... for those that think Jason is just constantly repeating himself these days.. what song is this a rerun of? i'm struggling to think of one with a similar feel and groove
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

angelsighs wrote:the lyrical motif that I find weird is the talking about what his mother said- this is in Too Late, Dont Just Do Something and Baby I'm Just A Fool...
why is something his mum said so important??
Jason! Don´t do smack you little rascal!
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

They Transmit wrote: I remember when I first got LGM on day of release and it blew my mind.

Once the ballads started appearing I've been less inclined towards every release since LICD which I personally think is a great record.
TheWarmth wrote: maybe our definitions of "ballad" differ, but in my mind every album has them.
TT must have a narrower definition of what a "ballad" is than that of a song simply being slow.. I know I do.

Around 75% of the songs on both LGM and LICD are slow.. but quite a few of them have an underlying groove, texture, ambience or weird edge that provides a different feel than what I usually associate with typical "ballads".
I have no problem with the space "ballads" or keyboard "ballads" but..

..the usually guitar-driven relatively cheerful campfire ballads... I´m sick of them (well.. actually they bored me from the start). We know it´s not gonna be a full album of campfire ballads but I´m still worried about that sound (lord let it rain, borrowed your gun etc) taking up even more space on spz albums.
They´re not necessarily poor songs but I prefer more exciting arrangements/production if it´s gonna be cheerful (again relatively cheerful for being spz).. and then we have songs like baby I´m just a fool that basically is a poor rewrite of WWJ and TYT - it only makes me sit there for 7 mins wanting to hear the originals.

Although there are songs I absolutely love on every album I´ve been more or less disappointed with parts of almost every album after FUI (LAGWAFIS perhaps being partly an exception)..
I´m sure high expectations and buying every album upon release (which kind of means you eagerly wait for every new album for years and years) make me more picky adding fuel for disappointment... but I always end up loving big chunks of every record and it´s worth the wait even after 20 years (I hope.. haven´t heard the new record).

as for lyrics.. if the music is good then it doesn´t have to be top notch poetry.
top notch?! where the fuck did that come from? I must be more tired than I thought..

his lyrics could be a lot worse

but I wouldn´t really know.. all you britishers and amerikanischers with your little improvised pidgin language all sound like donald duck through a wah-wah anyway..
..perhaps he hates mondegreens and deliberately keeps his palette of words so small that no one can mistake his words for something silly (-er) ? :lol:
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Spiby »

Wow! Some real strong feelings coming out here.

I hope I can put this across in an understandable form...

From my perspective, Jason does what he does, (as does, indeed, any musician) and I happen to enjoy most of it. Sure, there's stuff I don't like, but I never feel an urge to criticise or complain. Perhaps if I looked at it as "I've paid to be entertained" I might feel short-changed when stuff's not up to my expectations, or is being regurgitated.

Perhaps I'd also feel in more of a position to criticise if I was a musician/entertainer myself (which I know a lot of you are) - I tend to think who am I to criticise - at least they're out there doing it.

I feel there's a real dichotomy between accepting that criticism drives things forward, and not (personally) feeling in a position to criticise. Makes me sound a right wuss!

I suppose what I'm saying is, artists produce what they produce, we don't have to like it. We have a right to feel disappointed when things aren't up to our expectations, but artists have no obligation to us (other than we've potentially paid to be entertained, but hey - that's life's delicious gamble - and in the case of the new album, if you've heard it without paying to go to a gig, well you've not paid anything anyway). We have a right to feel frustrated when artists don't seem to be living up to their potential (in our eyes). And everyone has a right to their opinion (as long as it's not abusive/inflammatory etc.).

I LOVE this board!

Love to all of you

P x
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

angelsighs wrote: like I said, though, there are exceptions. Don't Just Do Something is a lyrical masterpiece, and I love the sole two lines of Smiles. and if the music is good it doesnt matter. Lay Back In The Sun has cookie cutter lyrics but the song is so good, who cares.

)
which is why i mostly ignore the early stuff cos the lyrics are mostly innane and as far as not 'experimenting' anymore goes um, guitar loops? spaceship? you could argue that since dreamweapon (mid 80s) till guitar loops (mid 2000s) he has done nothing interesting- just recorded conventional songs with chorus and a particular sound. so anything between dreamweapon and GL is utter shit :roll:
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

Kurious Oranj wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote:Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.
not really that bothered to be honest

mildly interested in the new album but not expecting to be blown away
BzaInSpace wrote: I find the comments abouts J's lyrical themes just laughable - it's like complaining about Little Richard singing about girls and cars, or the Beach Boys singing about girls and the beach, or Mark Lanegan singing about death, or crucially the Staple Singers singing gospel: It's just what he does!
that's a pretty weak straw man argument

ON FIRE
SOUL ON FIRE
I GOTTA FIRE
SITTING ON FIRE

how can anyone not think this is starting to get silly? and thats just song titles
if you're not bothered then why take the time to express an opinion on the new stuff? :P :wink:
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

Spiby wrote:Wow! Some real strong feelings coming out here.

I hope I can put this across in an understandable form...

From my perspective, Jason does what he does, (as does, indeed, any musician) and I happen to enjoy most of it
isn't there a song called 'i am what i am' :P
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

bunnyben wrote: as far as not 'experimenting' anymore goes um, guitar loops? spaceship?
I think what people are saying is that the experimental side should be integrated in Spz rather than diverted into side projects.

I really like the newer stuff too, but just imagine if some of that stuff was woven into the mix somewhere.. could be pretty cool.

there was also the song with Yoko Ono which was superb and had a really trippy sound to it
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

This thread is called general opinion on new songs?

People are just being honest in how they feel towards them. If this isn't the answer you want, don't ask the question.

For me Spiritualized will always hold a special place in my heart, never have I been more moved are excited than by moments listening to this band either on record or live.

To say go and listen to another band, just because I don't agree with how you personally perceive the newer stuff is pretty childish and not exactly a well thought out argument is it.

All art is subjective blah blah so you're always going to get someone with a different opinion to yourself and like I say if you want to live in blinkered bliss, really don't ask the question.

And once again to re-iterate the point for the people that totally missed it- Its not about re-making LGM or whatever its about pushing the boundaries and innovation that is what people miss.

I couldn't care less if all he wrote from now till the end of time is ballads, its how those ballads are presented that I feel strongly about. Its putting those unexpected twists in there that I'd have never thought of. Those spine tingling moments where you are transported, which is what all good music should do.

For those that are using the "well the lyrics were never the focus" argument then you are plum out of luck as the lyrics are at the forefront of all the tunes now and its far less about sonic adventure than it ever was.

Recurring lyrical themes is not the same as re-writing the same song, Bob Dylan uses recurring lyrical themes, Simon and Garfunkel you recurring lyrical themes, AC/DC use recurring lyrical themes. That's not what is in question here it's how good you personally think those songs are and how they are presented.

As to why come back to Spiritualized, I bet you any money those that do want to feel moved again, excited, thrilled by the music, and when that doesn't happen, on a personal level, people will speak out, especially if someone asks them...what do you think of the new stuff.

To blindly accept without question just because its a new Spiritualized record seems to me pointless. Its like saying everything this person does no matter what is fantastic and if you don't agree then your wrong.

From what has been played out by the band there are moments of brilliance but for me, personally they are fleeting.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

I'm actually enjoying the debate.. hope you're not thinking I object to the way the thread has developed?

you're putting forward your side quite eloquently, and I agree with a lot of it, but I do also love a lot of the newer stuff, and think it's a valid development of the bands sound.

the lyrical thing is interesting- yes the lyrics have become more upfront now, but also a lot of them have got better. like I said above, a lot of the A&E lyrics are great in my opinion. some really cool and thought provoking phrases
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by musicheals2 »

angelsighs wrote:
musicheals2 wrote: I Am What I Am (which brings fresh life to an old song)
great song... for those that think Jason is just constantly repeating himself these days.. what song is this a rerun of? i'm struggling to think of one with a similar feel and groove
Me either! It doesn't resemble the original I Am What I Am except in lyrical style and a few of the same lines. In terms of musically the closest I can think of is Cop Shoot Cop...but it's a very FAR close if you get me.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by sunray »

They Transmit wrote:To blindly accept without question just because its a new Spiritualized record seems to me pointless. Its like saying everything this person does no matter what is fantastic and if you don't agree then your wrong.
And a big AMEN to that!
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by shalloboi »

They Transmit wrote: To blindly accept without question just because its a new Spiritualized record seems to me pointless. Its like saying everything this person does no matter what is fantastic and if you don't agree then your wrong.
is anyone doing that?
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

simonkeeping wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote:Well I don't, and I don't understand why some of you even bother with Spiritualized in 2011.
Its Spiritualized, it's going to be a well thought out piece of music, the songs on it, whether they work for you or not, will be good.
:roll:
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

shalloboi wrote:i have a difficult time being disappointed in anything jason's done so far.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by BzaInSpace »

I have a difficult time in not being disappointed by most of this thread so far.
O P 8
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

musicheals2 wrote:
angelsighs wrote:
musicheals2 wrote: I Am What I Am (which brings fresh life to an old song)
great song... for those that think Jason is just constantly repeating himself these days.. what song is this a rerun of? i'm struggling to think of one with a similar feel and groove
Me either! It doesn't resemble the original I Am What I Am except in lyrical style and a few of the same lines. In terms of musically the closest I can think of is Cop Shoot Cop...but it's a very FAR close if you get me.
yep definitely, I was thinking Cop Shoot Cop is the closest in terms of feel but even that isn't that close
maybe Cheapster at a stretch
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by shalloboi »

They Transmit wrote:
shalloboi wrote:i have a difficult time being disappointed in anything jason's done so far.
that's what i suspected.

here's the problem with that- you are faulting me for enjoying something about all of spiritualized's albums. they are one of my favorite bands and one of the few bands that i listen to that has consistently put out albums that i love and find a connection with. what business is it of yours to accuse me of being a blind follower just because i have a difference of opinion from yours? i suppose i should just drop my own opinions and blindly follow yours then, is that it? is that what all of us should do who don't agree with you? would that put an end to all of this?

this is, just in case you didn't notice, a spiritualized forum and people who like the band come here to discuss the band and their music. it seems a little audacious to come here and find fault with people being excited about the release of a spiritualized album on a spiritualized forum.

i was actually about to give you credit for presenting your opinions in a respectful way and admit that i understood what you were saying, but i hope you'll understand if i don't find much use for respecting your opinions any more.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

Correct this is a Spiritualized forum and this is a debate about what people think of the new tracks.

I've accused you of nothing and only tried to highlight a point and answer a question you yourself asked. As you say I've tried to give polite measured responses in this debate which I feel I've done.

If you see this as a personal attack then that is rather unfortunate.

As I said I was trying to answer a question that came from you. Sadly your response has now reduced this discusion and debate into some personal drama.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

Apologies.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by shalloboi »

yup, i'm done too.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by runcible »

I like some of the new songs, others don't cut it yet but they might in time.

I'm not sure why things got so heated just because some didn't like the idea of their positive views being criticised and others felt the same about their less positive views. People are going to defend their opinions, good or bad. One question I would ask any musician here is that if you put new music out there and someone said they didn't like it and much preferred the old material because the new stuff lacked the substance of old, then, if you were involved in the debate, would you leap to defend your work? I know I would.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

nothing good ever comes out of defending your own art on the internet
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by simonkeeping »

Okay, I think there's two arguments going on here judging by what's being written. They hinge around the facts that

1. People think he's not evolving as a writer and
2. He's relying on a 'wafer thin sonic template' .

Which IMHO I believe isn't true (Thats like saying 'This little life of Mine' and 'Baby Im just a fool' are similar - the songwriting, arangement and production on both is completely different), and that, whether you think I'm blindly accepting whatever he does as fantastic or not is a fact.

I think the crux of the matter is that he has evolved in a way which some people don't like. The 'ballad's' seem to be a sore point for some (if you don't like them thats basically half the record that you're not going to like) and like all music it's a personal taste thing, fair enough! But again, I'll ask the question, what do people want from this record? The phrase experimentation keeps cropping up and I'd just be interested in hearing what you mean by that? Weird little noises, effects riddled percussion - that's what those early records where all about isn't it? That's evolved into something different, warmth, clarity, more reliance on using instruments to create these odd noises rather than technology.

Over the last 4 records he has put out there has been
LICD - Orchestra, gospel, an everything including the kitchen sink extravaganza of sound.
Amazing Grace - Garage filth
Songs in A+E - kind of folky? Very soft and warm sounding with spikes of venon in places.
Sweet Heart Sweet Light - (from the preview at the live shows) A very big sounding record, full of Joy, some really nice funky basslines, skyscraping melodies and lyrically showing a move to a celebration of life rather than foreboding and death.

I don't see how these are similar? Sorry you're hear not enjoying the new stuff.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

Amazing Grace is garage filth? since when??

only a few tracks on that album could even remotely fit that criteria
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by TheWarmth »

I don't have a problem with people criticizing the new material. If you don't like the songs, then that's understandable. However, I'll jump to defend Pierce when people say that he's just he's just rehashing old ideas or that he's not experimenting anymore, as I simply don't think those statements are true. To somewhat mirror what Simon said, it's more accurate to state that he's not experimenting in the way some would like him to.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

he makes the albums he wants, we buy them if we want, meh
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

A couple of thoughts. I miss the unexpected, tone, content, arrangement, tempo whatever. I kinda feel that I know what's coming on the later stuff.
There's an argument that the bar was raised so high on the earlier stuff that that is what people are craving, genius, which I truly believe my favourite Spz records are. Tough to keep repeating genius. In all this though I'm still back and always will be on any spz release as I want to see, good or bad what he's done. There's not many artists I can say that about.

A point nobody has picked up on is passion, people are passionate about this band, this is a band that has soundtracked most of my adult life from queuing up to buy Anyway that you want me as a 22year old to now is quite a journey init.

I guess like me people get old and so do ideas of what 'your' favourite band should sound like. I'm off to get my slippers. :D
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by simonkeeping »

They Transmit wrote:A point nobody has picked up on is passion, people are passionate about this band, this is a band that has soundtracked most of my adult life from queuing up to buy Anyway that you want me as a 22year old to now is quite a journey init.
Amen!
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by jack white »

i am also unimpressed by the majority of the new songs. however, i am still looking forward to the album.... the songs have curbed my enthusiasm for it, but i still think it's possible j can inject a little magic into the record.

in general i agree with this assessment:
They Transmit wrote: I just don't think they are very well written songs from what I've heard so far. The arrangements are to my ears like Spiritualized by numbers. All innovation appears to have gone, the song writing and arrangements, i think are terribly pedestrian now.

the final song, so long(!) is the worst culprit. it's like the worst spz self-parody he could concoct, a brainless idea combining the typical maudlin jesus (wept) section + the typical uptempo chorus ad infinitum.
however it's also a place where i hope it can be rescued in the studio, to a degree.
i never liked Soul on Fire or BIJAF during their Acoustic Mainline renditions but i was delighted when i heard the cosmic crackle & spiral explosion that was missing from when they were played live. having said that the new songs don't have the benefit of the A&E material which was never presented with the full band/choir, until after release. there is less scope for surprises with the record, i imagine.

& so it is...

i really love Hey Jane & hope it gets elongated for next yrs tour
they kinda wrecked Jesus Won't You Be.. hope the studio fixes this one.
too late/mama said i still adore. shame the whole album wasn't like this. then it woulda been a pop album. didn't need new lyrics either.
mary doesn't live up to it's title. very disappointing.
IAWIA is interesting
Freedom is dire
Heading 4 the Top is p sweet i guess
YGWYD again is another doesn't live up to it's title. hope there's something to be done to give it some flavour.
Hey Little Girl is desperate
So Long is terrible atm. but i hope it's stretched to about 20mins & gains a bit of magic in the studio.


playing the entire album hasn't worked out well for me. have found the material disappointing by&large
gonna burn brightly
for a while
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by They Transmit »

This is Spiritualized doing a pop song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... oDQZPyRfos
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

Didn´t he write that with Jim Dickinson around the time of lagwafis.. or did I just dream that?
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by toomilk »

scratch wrote:Didn´t he write that with Jim Dickinson around the time of lagwafis.. or did I just dream that?
Supposedly Dr John. And it's definitely not the same song that will be on the new album, so I WISH MUSIC WRITERS WOULD STOP SAYING IT IS.
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Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Kurious Oranj »

They Transmit wrote:This is Spiritualized doing a pop song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... oDQZPyRfos
reminds me of peter, paul & mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8NSvD7LSE

the sound quality on that boot is good
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