General opinion on new songs?

For new sounds, old sounds and favourite sound discussion...

Moderators: sunny, BzaInSpace, runcible, spzretent

scratch
Known user
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Elfr, Ranafylke, søndre Vika

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

toomilk wrote: And it's definitely not the same song that will be on the new album, so I WISH MUSIC WRITERS WOULD STOP SAYING IT IS.
well.. no, I agree it´s not the same as the new one.. but they have some lyrics in common and therefore it also inherited some of the vocal phrasing.. so it´s more than just the name.
"the greatest example of self-violation in the history of art"
musicheals2
Known user
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:07 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by musicheals2 »

scratch wrote:
toomilk wrote: And it's definitely not the same song that will be on the new album, so I WISH MUSIC WRITERS WOULD STOP SAYING IT IS.
well.. no, I agree it´s not the same as the new one.. but they have some lyrics in common and therefore it also inherited some of the vocal phrasing.. so it´s more than just the name.
Wasn't this discussion held in another thread. When asked if it was the same song I believe it was Kev Bales who said yes and no. To me it clearly is the same song, lyrically, it's just evolved now.
bunnyben
Known user
Posts: 2676
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: inside aimless privacy

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

Kurious Oranj wrote:
They Transmit wrote:This is Spiritualized doing a pop song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... oDQZPyRfos
reminds me of peter, paul & mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8NSvD7LSE

the sound quality on that boot is good
great song!
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
scratch
Known user
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Elfr, Ranafylke, søndre Vika

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

musicheals2 wrote: I believe it was Kev Bales who said yes and no.
sounds about right.. :P
"the greatest example of self-violation in the history of art"
Multi
Known user
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:12 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
PopeJez
Known user
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:30 am
Location: South UK

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by PopeJez »

Well said, Multi. We are lucky to have a band which we all have such high expectations of.
Broc
Known user
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:16 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Broc »

Multi, are you saying we can't be critical of Jason's art because he nearly died a few years ago? What a ridiculous thing to say. That made me laugh.
jadams501
Known user
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:51 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by jadams501 »

I respect your opinion, Multi, but don't necessarily agree with your take on the arc of J's career. I think he's a pretty cerebral, in some ways emotionally removed, artist. Which isn't to say that his material isn't from the heart or coming from his personal experience, but that J has always been conscious of its influences and the deliberate artifice of well-arranged music.

LGM is also my favorite thing J has done outside of Spacemen 3, but Amazing Grace is my second favorite. I think it's interesting that it strips down all of the archetypes J does down to their minimal essence, and to me it kind of captures his whole career in one album. I don't think it's any more or less personally revealing than anything he's released. I'd say that all Spiritualized has represented tinkering with the basic VU-gospel formula, with more and less psychedelia, Spector-esque pop, etc.

For me Songs in A+E was kind of the sound of Spaceman chafing against the self-imposed formulas of his earliest stuff, and branching tentatively into indie pop, with mixed results. I haven't listened yet to the new material, but I'm up for hearing how he subtly varies the formula this time around.

I don't think people are wrong for airing their opinions, though. Honest criticism is what helps people stay at their best -- and I don't think J is reading much of this anyway.
Multi
Known user
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:12 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
angelsighs
Known user
Posts: 4876
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

thanks for the long post Multi - don't agree with everything you said but lots of food for thought there.

I do think we need to separate the artists intentions from the results
an artist can still have all the integrity, passion, and good intentions in the world, but the end result can still not do it for us due to other factors, or just due to the fact that it's not our cup of tea.
if someone doesn't like the new stuff, then that's fair enough. if they start saying that it's because Jason is being lazy, or phoning it in, then they are on much shakier ground.

jadams- I know what you mean about Jason being a 'cerebral' artist. this doesn't mean his music lacks 'soul' or anything. there's just a kind of detachment and lots of nods and references to rock history.
because he spends so long tweaking and conceptualising his work, I don't think Jason will ever make a truly bad album, only an average or mediocre one.

I think what people might be objecting to is the production rather than the songwriting. I remember Jeff Tweedy saying that if you just played them on acoustic guitar, most Wilco songs would sound pretty similar. it's the different production and the dressing up that creates different eras and different feels. this also applies to Spz, as was shown by stripping the songs right down on the acoustic mainlines tour. I think that the songwriting has actually got stronger recently- the lyrics have often got better too.
but maybe what a lot of people are missing is those spacerock soundscapes as compared to the 'traditional', more natural production of the recent stuff. without the soundscapes Jason's songs now have to stand on their own. I applaud him for that.

saying this new album is 'full of ballads' is also simply incorrect. it actually seems quite varied to me, some funky stuff, noisy bits, krautrock, and yes some ballads, but overall quite poppy and the running order makes sense.
bbbhenko
Known user
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bbbhenko »

i was at the RAH gig and have listened to the recording quite a lot since then. i think this may be the strongest material since LAGWAFIS or at least LICD. let me explain why... :)

i have no problem with references to jesus or fire, it was actually the theme of 'wwj' that got me into sp3/spiz in the first place and i have not yet become tired of it. i love 'lord, let it rain on me' and i love 'so long'. i believe it will be an excellent album closer.

my favourite spiz-album is PP, it has a darker and more "dangerous" (silly word maybe) soundscape than LGM. the outstanding track on A&E was thus imho 'you lie you cheat'. in a similar vein, i have high hopes for 'heading for the top', for example. love what doggen is doing on the guitar there!

what i don't like as much are the strings. i prefer guitar and organ up front. i personally feel that layers of strings too high in the mix make the songs too rigid. this is not a spiz-related comment, i generally feel this way about rock with a symphony orchestra. therefore, a few of the slower tracks on LICD never made it through to me. and therefore, the part about the new album that i am a bit hesitant about include the slower numbers that potentially will be drenched in strings à la LICD on the new album. i do think however that these "ballads" (or whatever they are) are generally stronger than some companions on LICD (e.g. 'out of sight', 'i didn't mean to hurt you', 'anything more').

finally, i love 'electricity' but i think that we have heard a couple of weaker versions of very "similar" songs (in a somewhat vague sense maybe... :P) over the years (i'm especially thinking AG here), and i am happy that there is not yet another one on the new album.

i really like 'you get what you deserve' and 'hey jane'. on a side note -- would it be too difficult to imagine what 'hey jane' would have sounded like with lots of tremolo, echo and bubbling base à la LGM? i don't think so? :)
Multi
Known user
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:12 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
bunnyben
Known user
Posts: 2676
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: inside aimless privacy

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

jadams501 wrote:I respect your opinion, Multi, but don't necessarily agree with your take on the arc of J's career. I think he's a pretty cerebral, in some ways emotionally removed, artist. Which isn't to say that his material isn't from the heart or coming from his personal experience, but that J has always been conscious of its influences and the deliberate artifice of well-arranged music.
the cerebral aspect of the work, in my opinion, highten the emotional aspects. as with a lot of great classical music it is the levels of intelectualism that helps one enter a deeper state of feeling. whilst AG was a 'garage' album in the sense they turned up he said this is this and they banged it out, so to speak, i still reckon that many months went into perfecting the elements of the songs before they were taken into the studio. for me his work is just an idea that he is trying to expand on. whilst it is not perfectly realised as an overall form (exceptions being ladies, out of sight, lord, you lie etc) it is still a hell of a lot better than a lot of the stuff out there trying to convey the same concepts, ahh*ashcroft*chooo, excuse my sneezing there.

if he made an album of 15 songs drowned in strings, if the arangements and structures were well concived i'd be very happy, if he made an album of noise, if it was full of intersting patterns and feelings then i'd be happy, if he made an album of things i don't like (for example if he made a metal album in the metallica vien) i'd listen, respect him for putting out his thoughts, and listen to a different album or artist.
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
scratch
Known user
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Elfr, Ranafylke, søndre Vika

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by scratch »

AG is not a garage record.. can someone please explain why so many consider the whole album garage?
I think it has good production and about 65-70% of it is beatiful low key songs with controlled outbursts.. classic spiritualized

If you call that one "garage" then you might as well call the new one "home demo" or something.
The disease of desperately having to label everything even when it´s far from spot on. Lazy stuff..
"the greatest example of self-violation in the history of art"
bunnyben
Known user
Posts: 2676
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: inside aimless privacy

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

scratch wrote:AG is not a garage record.. can someone please explain why so many consider the whole album garage?
I think it has good production and about 65-70% of it is beatiful low key songs with controlled outbursts.. classic spiritualized

If you call that one "garage" then you might as well call the new one "home demo" or something.
The disease of desperately having to label everything even when it´s far from spot on. Lazy stuff..
it's how it was refered to in the currently strokes obsessed media
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
jadams501
Known user
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:51 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by jadams501 »

scratch wrote:AG is not a garage record.. can someone please explain why so many consider the whole album garage?
I think it has good production and about 65-70% of it is beatiful low key songs with controlled outbursts.. classic spiritualized

If you call that one "garage" then you might as well call the new one "home demo" or something.
The disease of desperately having to label everything even when it´s far from spot on. Lazy stuff..
I agree that the garage tag stuck to AG in part because of media trends, but it's also substantially scuzzier and more stripped down than any previous Spiritualized album. And, J talked extensively about how it was rawer and more spontaneous than his earlier stuff. All things considered, I'd say that "Spiritualized does garage" is a fair description of the album.
angelsighs
Known user
Posts: 4876
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by angelsighs »

it's all relative, compared to LICD, AG is White Light White Heat!!
nghst
Known user
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:05 pm

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by nghst »

I haven't listened to the lyrics much thus far.. but what I've heard is okay.. apart from isolated moments, the band were never really a 'lyrical' act anyway.
i have to say i'm getting a little tired of the lyrical cliches myself.. both songs have references to "lord", "jesus" and "fire" it's like come on.. i know he's clearly a music first/lyrics second guy but it's a bit disheartening
I have to agree that Spiritualized is probably a "music first" act, but I would like to know more about where he's coming from with his lyrics. Whenever I've heard him interviewed he is always talking about the music or the art of the project, he never brings up the lyrics. I wish someone would do a documentary on him, so people could see the story behind his musical creativity. However he may never agree to such a thing. There's a good documentary on Jason's friend Daniel Johnston, "The Devil and Daniel Johnston." Of course Daniel is very different from Jason, but they're both creative geniuses.

I really like the new material. My favorite songs right now are, Hey Jane, Hey Little Girl, Too Late and So Long.
flokie
Known user
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:29 pm

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by flokie »

Haha I won't get into some of the debate here, but I'll add my voice in favour of So Long!
Yip, in spite of EVERYTHING. My first reactions at the Queens Hall gig were "that melody is lovely, but enough "Help me Jesus"", and then "oh god this is going on for too long now, we're moving into 'Stop your crying'/'Soul on Fire' wave your lighters territory". But it's definitely won me over now and could actually go on for even longer - although I still feel a bit guilty about it! :oops:
It's just so catchy and pretty that I'll forgive all its flaws. Ok, I still feel a bit guilty.

Can only agree about Hey Jane, the other standout track.
Anyone else gets the feeling 'Little Girl' could be the single... I still find it a bit 'meh' - even though it's still more inspiring than 'Freedom'.
I rather like "Life is a problem" - enjoyed it more on this tour than I did the previous one.
bunnyben
Known user
Posts: 2676
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: inside aimless privacy

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by bunnyben »

hey jane is about 10 mins too short :(
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
Gruff
Known user
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: UK

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Gruff »

I find myself a little in both camps I'd say.

I do love the new stuff and agree that for songwriting, Jason is getting better. Or at least; more conventional.

I also prefer the earlier stuff (some of it) as far as 'the music I love' is concerned.

I guess the only argument I am having difficulty matching up is the whole 'innovation' thing.

In all honesty; what is actually genuinely innovative about Jason's work? Free jazz begun in the 60's, as did psychedelic drone based music (I know pedants among you will disagree with dates but I'm talking about these items in general terms). There isn't anything on any of the Spz albums that actually genuinly is 'ground breaking' or 'innovative'. There are unconventional aspects in that most pop music (term I am using to separate avant garde from music in general circulation) does not use; for example drones, largely 2-chord based songs, 'white noise' sections, improvisation (normally only really the reserve of jazz artists), but as far as 'cutting edge'? Modern cutting edge music is plumbing the depths of human hearing using machines or using new technologies to make loops and arrangements hitherto not possible (or at least very difficult).

Jason's music is different to the usual, but it is not 'innovative' to my ears-just not following conventional pop templates.

Has this changed over time? Well, a little. The earlier albums are far less 'conventional' than the newer albums (tracks segue more etc); but the newer albums have more polish and the sonic soundscapes created by the improvised sections as unconventional as anything on the earlier albums.
When the hand points to the moon only the fool looks at the finger
TheWarmth
Known user
Posts: 3959
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by TheWarmth »

Kyle/Multi: Thanks for the link to the Roskilde '98 set. I have to say that this might be the best live recording of Spiritualized that I have every heard! Killer.
Chris Barrus
Known user
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Sierra Madre, CA
Contact:

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Chris Barrus »

angelsighs wrote:it's all relative, compared to LICD, AG is White Light White Heat!!
Always thought that AG was J's version of a Saints album. Hard to define but feels like Phil Spector at 200mph.
Multi
Known user
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:12 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shinesalight
Known user
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: Brighton, U.K.
Contact:

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by Shinesalight »

Multi wrote:
TheWarmth wrote:Kyle/Multi: Thanks for the link to the Roskilde '98 set. I have to say that this might be the best live recording of Spiritualized that I have every heard! Killer.
Hey Paul, sorry about the delay, I must've missed this post. This set is unlike anything else I've ever downloaded. Good times.
where/how can I get my grubby little hands on this?! :wink:
www.dronerockrecords.com
The Home of Drone
TheWarmth
Known user
Posts: 3959
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by TheWarmth »

somakoma
Known user
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:57 am

Re: General opinion on new songs?

Post by somakoma »

I have only seen them four times after that roskilde 98 show although it´s been almost 14 years.. none of those shows were as impressive.

saw them three times in 93 though.. I know that I enjoyed that years roskilde show more than the one from 98
- partly because I had been a fan for less than a year and expectations were lower but mostly because I prefer LGM and its lineup over LAG´s.

cant find it now but I know I had a recording of it.. very good sound as well - maybe a slightly less stellar recording (than rosk98) if you look at it from a strictly technical view point
Post Reply