jadams501 wrote:
For me the low point of Spaceman's vocals was all the unnecessary reverb on the Recurring material, particularly in those versions of Feel So Sad.
Wow...
This is a great site for differing opinions but wow....slightly off point but I'd argue that Jason's best period was from Perfect Priscription to Pure Phase, 87 to 95ish... Anyway still awaiting the vinyl....
jadams501 wrote:
For me the low point of Spaceman's vocals was all the unnecessary reverb on the Recurring material, particularly in those versions of Feel So Sad.
Wow...
This is a great site for differing opinions but wow....slightly off point but I'd argue that Jason's best period was from Perfect Priscription to Pure Phase, 87 to 95ish...
Just to be clear, I was referring to the two versions of Feel So Sad on Recurring, not the later single version that is epic and got the vocals right. I think the material on Recurring is great, but the vocal approach from LGM and the early singles would have made it even better.
jadams501 wrote:
For me the low point of Spaceman's vocals was all the unnecessary reverb on the Recurring material, particularly in those versions of Feel So Sad.
Wow...
This is a great site for differing opinions but wow....slightly off point but I'd argue that Jason's best period was from Perfect Priscription to Pure Phase, 87 to 95ish...
Just to be clear, I was referring to the two versions of Feel So Sad on Recurring, not the later single version that is epic and got the vocals right. I think the material on Recurring is great, but the vocal approach from LGM and the early singles would have made it even better.
Yoiks, Perfect PrEscription I mean.
Fair enough jadams, I love the sound of Jason's side on Recurring. I only listen to the LP really not the 15 track CD, I don't like the Feel So Sad/Drive mix at all. Drive on the Big City 12" is good though. I got into Spacemen 3 when Playing With Fire was released, that and Recurring are my favourite S3 albums.
Just spent a very happy hour listening again to the album, and just can't really hear the issues many are concerned with. I've got the white vinyl (which was absolutely caked in crud, and took several cleans and wet plays to get rid of), but to my ears it sounds absolutely blinding! I just aren't hearing surface noise, compression, paper thin instrumentation or poor definition. The vocals are up front and untampered with, which sounds great to me (and also in line stylistically with A&E) and the overall production sounds just spot on to me. It brings to mind what I imagine Dylan was speaking about when describing "that thin wild mercury sound".
I must say i'm too pretty underwelmed by the quality of the vinyl album. Haven't heard the cd or wav download yet. I've got the black pressing, bought at my local record store in Holland. It sounds muffeld and distorted. Even on my Beyer headphones, project turntable and Rotel amp. It sounds even worse on my b&w speakers.
I can't imagine that the same person who gave us the perfect production and pressing on vinyl with LGM and PP, would be satisfied with this.
Maybe the sound of the SHSL vinyl is the way it should be, according to Jason, but if so, he should make a statement saying so. Just because it is so, well, not his style, basically.
I'm disappointed by the sound, cause the songs are so good.
"I've been drinking all night long, but my hands are steady"
I have not yet heard my copies, from the US and the UK, BUT, Colored vinyl alone does not a poor recording make; some of the finest quality recordings I own are colored waxes, from all over the world; it is the quality of the material and the endless detail that goes into that master stamper that makes a Great recording or makes shit.
This is very disappointing; I have ordered discs from the UK and the US; who knows what I will get.
After all the hassle J Spaceman has been through, and to have fans waiting for this new release; to have some twit gloop on the release agent is by ITSELF too much.
I will just wait, and see what happens. Good Grief, what a fucked up way to begin a release.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus
So, I have listened to the official US CD twice tonight. First time on my stereo with the volume turned up pretty loud. I sat myself about 12 feet in front of the speakers for perfect audio balance. I then listened to it a second time through Grado headphones.
I haven’t heard the LP nor the UK pressing but judging on my CD through my stereo and even with the Grado 'phones I have to say that my feelings are the lo-fi, almost mono sound on this mix, is intentional. I say that because it seems very deliberate and comparable to, say....the lo-fi of the Lips, ‘Clouds Taste Metallic’ LP. It also made me think of Ike Turner’s ’Rocket 88’ that was recorded with a damaged amp and unintentionally became one of the first examples of distortion. As silly a comparison as it may be if you think about it….maybe it’s not so silly. Ike intentionally decided to release the “strange fuzzy†sound and the rest is history. Again, I don’t know how my US CD sounds compared to the UK LP so I can't comment fairly on the several negative comments. Poor vinyl quality possibly?
I really like the sonic crunches on 'Heading For The Top' and I REALLY love when the bass comes in on 'Get What You Deserve'. That is a magical moment that is on par with the bass coming in on Zeppelin’s ‘That’s The Way’. The song comes to life, sucks this listener in and it is moments like this that I will greatly anticipate when they perform it live. I also love the wah and the screeching, howling, feedback in ‘Mary’ that are wonderfully juxtaposed with the strings. The banjo too at the end of ‘So Long You Pretty Thing’ is a nice touch. In fact, there were several nice touches that I really enjoyed. Only two listens in and I am excited to play it again.
Could it be mixed to have more dynamic range and fuller sound? Sure. But, I am sure if that is what Jason wanted he would have done so. As somebody said, the test pressing must have been heard before it was given the green light. So unless something happened between test pressing and the final product it seems to me that it has to be intentional.
One thing I will say is….this album is excellent! Great songs, some great compositions and in my humble opinion it blows ‘A&E’ away. I honestly cannot wait to hear these songs live where they can truly come to life and have a lot more space to breathe.
beaker73 wrote:I'm disappointed by the sound, cause the songs are so good.
ditto. this is what is really frustrating me. if I didn't like the songs then I really wouldn't give a shit, I'd just file it away under 'never listen to it again'. but I love a lot of these songs and the mastering just isn't pleasing to my ears. just compare it to A&E and that sounds much fuller...
tommy_b wrote:Just spent a very happy hour listening again to the album, and just can't really hear the issues many are concerned with. I've got the white vinyl (which was absolutely caked in crud, and took several cleans and wet plays to get rid of), but to my ears it sounds absolutely blinding! I just aren't hearing surface noise, compression, paper thin instrumentation or poor definition. The vocals are up front and untampered with, which sounds great to me (and also in line stylistically with A&E) and the overall production sounds just spot on to me. It brings to mind what I imagine Dylan was speaking about when describing "that thin wild mercury sound".
Oh, and the songs aren't half bad either.
I totally agree sound is very good on my vinyl particularly Jason's vocals. Also thought I'd mention thay my download sounds good too on my ipod in fact I had to turn volume way down when I first played it as very loud
BzaInSpace wrote: but suffice to say blanket adulation is boring as fuck.
Now that's funny.
How? As in funny haha or...
Huh?
Well as, perhaps, Jasons No.1 cheerleader round these parts, who tends to not take kindly to criticism of any of Spaceman's endeavours, it made me laugh to see you say blanket adulation is boring as fuck, when you've always given the impression that blanket adulation is exactly what should occurr with anything Pierce is involved with.
Have been listening to the mp3s on the iPod - sounded pretty good, particularly the latter songs. First few not quite as sharp, but ok.
Have just tried the vinyl briefly, side A only. Sounds muddy, with no real clarity. I don't believe it's lo-fi, just low quality. Looking forward to Domino response..
Side A isn't amazing, but the rest of the record sounds fine with the bass turned up a little.
I am concerned about the amount of dust and crap on a shrinkwrapped record, though? Maybe the white vinyl is making a normal amount of dirt more obvious, but still.
I listened again this morning on my way to work on my ipod. I have better earphones than the standard ipod phones but nothing overly special (Sony's). On the whole the bass on my ipod phones is pretty decent. There is a definite distortion in the mix and not just in the louder rock songs. 'Freedom' is a good example. This is what I meant by "lo fi" in my previous post. Another moment is the hammering piano in "Heading for the Top'. More significantly (because I love the moment), I couldn't hear the bass come in on "Get What You Deserve" when listening to it on my ipod.
I do think this "lo fi" (for lack of a better word) is intentional though. If Jason wanted it to be more grand and full in scope I think he would have made it as such. I did prefer listening to it on my stereo and even through my Grado's more than on my ipod. But, this is always the case. I like music to fill the room rather than via 'phones.
Song wise though this records is having much more of an impact on me than 'A&E' (which I liked!). I love his howl in 'Mary' and how it stretches out for several seconds becoming the most important sound.
After adjusting the integrated amp, obsessing over the graphic equalizer settings and speaker setup, and from the 6th straight play through of the Fat P download, this is quite possibly thee quintessential Spiritualized album.
I was really hoping not to join in on the vinyl pressing issues rant but I just put on the Hey Jane 7" for the first time and it's pressed really poorly. I'm not talking about the mix or the mastering either. There's tons of surface noise before and after each side but what bothers me the most is the really annoying distortion throughout both sides. Sounds like an old 60's/70's record that looks NM to the eye but most of been played with a worn out stylus. Who does the pressing for Double Six/Domino vinyl?
UPDATE:
I cleaned it a few more times and it sounds a lot better. I'm also thinking that maybe the problem is that the heavy "high end" of vinyl isn't conducive with this already "bright" sounding record?
UPDATE #2:
^^^ Me making excuses for a sub-par pressing and not wanting to feel cheated.
Last edited by Minky on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
One look at the SHSL white vinyl and I can tell how it is going to sound. The grooves are soooooo shallow!!! Any less and the disc would be flat. Unacceptable!
So I have mine a further few wipe downs and it sounds *slightly* better. Thing is, I don't have time to clean a brand new record 100 times just to hear it properly. It's a joke. I want a replacement and I want one that sounds properly.
finally got my copy of the white vinyl double from domino yesterday. have been listening a lot to the album from spotify recently (i.e. streaming). i am definitely not an audiophile, my equipment is adequate but not expensive. i only had time to listen to side A yesterday evening. some surprising surface noise at the beginning, but music played a lot louder. hey jane sounded superb. however, little girl sounds distorted in the choruses. it's like listening through a not-so-perfect FM-reception. i really love the new album, but this vinyl edition will probably not be the definitive way to enjoy it, i'm afraid.
I got my white vinyl UK version in the mail yesterday, and it sounds really messed up.
I listened to it all day and it sounded really weird, I couldn't figure out why. Besides the hideous crackling and popping.
My system isn't top end but not rubbish either, RP1 and rega mini phono stage, I think the record has been pressed really badly. I'm listening to the download now on my iTunes and it sounds fine.
I was going to email Domino and mention something but I think I will monitor this thread for the time being.
listened to the album on headphones and it does sound noticably better on there. some songs still just don't sound right though (Get What You Deserve especially)
Bought a copy of the CD. Much, much better than the vinyl, which is not something I thought I would ever say. As far as my copy goes, there was a total absence of quality control at the pressing plant/ record company with respect to the UK white vinyl. This is a very, very fine album, sadly let down by such shoddy product.
I will be interested to hear if the USA or Japanese pressings are (ahem) up to scratch.
Played the album twice through while in the RSD queue earlier today and have to agree it sounds much better than the double white vinyl. Fuck me, it even sounded better when I put the i-pod through the cassette adapter thingy in my car stereo!! Such a shame as I'm loving the album put probably won't be putting the LP on heavy rotation
Domino / Double Six will be issuing a statement today regarding the problems that have arisen with the white vinyl and how they intend on dealing with it.
(um- hate to bring this up but I have a cd copy which is sounding pretty weird too... similar issues to what's described in this vinyl thread. Mastering!!! Pressing!!! Two words any soundengineer hates and fears on any given day)
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
sunny wrote:(um- hate to bring this up but I have a cd copy which is sounding pretty weird too... similar issues to what's described in this vinyl thread. Mastering!!! Pressing!!! Two words any soundengineer hates and fears on any given day)
What's the issue with your CD? I think my copy sounds fine, but I haven't gotten around to playing it on any high-end equipment.
I wouldn't want to see the record company completely caned on this. I'd be happy with free black versions, no sleeves, posted out to all purchasers- proper sounding of course...
as mentioned above, the CD sounds 'squashed' with not much high or low end.
I think it's particularly noticeable on Get What You Deserve. no space between the instruments.
the bassline to Heading For The Top is weak
on Hey Jane there are musical parts that I can't hear, that I could hear on the music vid.
My copy just sounds so muffled it is like a joke- like it's under the blankets, haha. It's clearly a faulty copy, doesn't make sense on any sort of level. But I don't get the impression everyone has the same thing? It must be that some runs are bad or faulty? Shit happens... I'm happy rebuying it from somwhere else. Lucky for me I have a load of studio gear here at home so I can re- EQ and change things to my hearts content till I get what I like... I do tend to buy all formats and several different versions anyway, so no biggie. Spiritualized is one of those bands I am more than happy to spend some money on.
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
When I start seeing reports around here that people are happy with their vinyl, I suspect I'll take the plunge and buy that too. This record is too good not to own in proper form.
Anyone who has purchased a vinyl product that they feel is faulty should email customerservice@thevinylfactory.com (please attach proof of purchase) and a black vinyl replacement will be despatched to you free of charge.
sunny wrote:My copy just sounds so muffled it is like a joke- like it's under the blankets, haha. It's clearly a faulty copy, doesn't make sense on any sort of level. But I don't get the impression everyone has the same thing? It must be that some runs are bad or faulty? Shit happens... I'm happy rebuying it from somwhere else. Lucky for me I have a load of studio gear here at home so I can re- EQ and change things to my hearts content till I get what I like... I do tend to buy all formats and several different versions anyway, so no biggie. Spiritualized is one of those bands I am more than happy to spend some money on.
I have vinyl and download - the vinyl is obviously not right as has been pointed out. But I am with you here Sunny - I find the range of sound on the download very compressed/limited as I mentioned earlier. No grumbles about the best of the songs - some absolutely beauties on there - just the way they sound. I am not au fait enough with studio equipment to know what the issue is, just that my ears can't hear everything!
I bought the CD on the weekend. I cannot tell the difference between it and the WAVs I downloaded. This suggests that this is the way the album is meant to sound. I am very pleased to hear that the black vinyl is available to those of us who received the poorly pressed white vinyl. This is a very impressive, and no doubt costly, gesture.
As I started this thread I think I'll say two things. (i) This is a really, really good album and (ii) I'm looking forward to hearing it as it should sound on vinyl.
Many thanks to Spazed99 et al for sorting this out so well.
Actually, I did a print screen of my online account for piccadilly which shows I pre-ordered and collected the LP. Hope that is enough, surely better than a receipt that doesnt even name the lp bought.
Just e-mailed them along with an attached screen print of the order I made with my local record store so I hope that's enough. Would be great to have a decent vinyl version of the album as I'm loving the music on it...just not the way its currently sounding. Good to see that the management have taken our concerns on board. Thanks to Olan for starting this all off, thanks Spzretent for alerting them and thanks to Spazed99 for helping to resolve this unfortunate matter.
Yeah thanks to everyone who's helped sort this out. Right from when I got the LP home and made my first comments in the other thread I have been considering buying a black vinyl copy to try it out, so I'm glad to hear that I will be given one free of charge.
Has this problem been communicated with indie stores? Piccadilly and Norman are still selling at the moment and I think they need to be made aware there is a problem because it could reflect badly on them in the long run.
Shinesalight wrote:. Thanks to Olan for starting this all off, thanks Spzretent for alerting them and thanks to Spazed99 for helping to resolve this unfortunate matter.
Its you guys who reported this issue. Its nothing i would have been aware of had I not been reading this thread. I was just the conduit between you guys and Spazed99. Glad I could help out in any way but you guys deserve the credit.
http://www.lilmoxie.com
Detroit, Music, Sports and Other Stuff(including Spiritualized, Spacemen 3)
Oh well, White Vinyl IS pretty; (AND USUALLY SOUNDS GREAT), but I can live with some "collector" whiteouts/wipeouts and obtain the UK Black vinyl AND the Fat Possum release too.
I do feel badly for EVERYONE, since the band (J?P) the stores and the fans ALL got burned simply for wanting something a little different; aesthetically pleasing. It is a Cold, Cruel World Indeed.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus
This is good service from Domino. My white vinyl was delivered saturday, but i gues i'll just leave it sealed, since I already have the black pressing. Which sounds fine, apart from mastering-issues: good, silent pressing.
Guess I'll just have to learn to live with the muffled sound.
"I've been drinking all night long, but my hands are steady"
I received my SWSL yesterday from Rough Trade and when I opened it it was the black vinyl version when I'd pre-ordered the white version. Sent a fairly pissed-off e-mail to Will who said keep the black copy and he'd send out a white vinyl version as well.
Can you ask Will to send me my replacement of A&e that he promised 4 years ago?
Ha, there is a lot of complaining on this threAd. There is nothing wrong with the cd, the mixing or mastering. Those complaining about the mix.... It's just a very dry, upfront mix. It is not very common to mix like that and people aren't used to it. I love it! There is a problem with the while vinyl tho. I've a/b the two and the vinyl sound is lacking.
But hey, maybe you guys got the promo cd copy??? Jk. What a storm that would be.
I never wanted to join the complaints but i felt i had to in the end, even though i bought direct from Domino, do i still have to contact the vinyl factory for a replacement black version?
i bought it directly from domino and i e-mailed the vinyl factory as described now also on the official spz webpage. got a reply today saying they will send me a black vinyl replacement.
although i was very disappointed when the white vinyl was a failure, this more than makes up for it in my book. what a superb customer support! thanks to everyone involved/responsible. cannot wait to listen to this album from a functional vinyl pressing - the songs are really really awesome!!
emailed vinyl factory, got a reply within 10 minutes saying replacement on way, so far, thats excellent customer service, its just a shame this has happened, hope it isnt Spz thats out of pocket on this one....on the bright side, The Pharmacy has two thousand copies of the white version at 7 pence each
solarflarez wrote: The Pharmacy has two thousand copies of the white version at 7 pence each
So.....I don't want to keep harking back to this BUT, do we think the white vinyl is at fault here? If not, then why are they repressing and exchanging white for black? If it is the white vinyl at fault it confirms to me what I have often heard about colored vinyl being inferior. But, somebody else (Sunny?) did say the grooves were very shallow too.
What a bummer for the fans and for the band. It's good that it is being dealt with though and very efficiently, it seems. The power of the people. Well done all.
I wouldnt say that the discs were bad because the vinyl was white.
Ive got a few discs on white vinyl that all sound much better, acceptable at the very least. The problems would have been with either the vinyl product itself or the process administered. Maybe someone who works in a plant and knows what they are doing might be able to characterise the fault by listening to it....
As for grooves being shallow, i must admit i had that impression myself but then the white vinyl doesnt show the grooves as much anyway, so maybe its just appearances being deceptive
I told redcloud that I also don't think the problem was caused by the colored vinyl. That just doesn't make any sense to me and in dealing with United Record Pressing in Tennessee in the past, they have told me that they are of the opinion that colored vinyl is just as high quality as black vinyl (or CAN be pressed just as well as black vinyl ... obviously that's not what happened with SHSL). So, I'm anxious to hear how the replacements sound.
Bought a white vinyl copy in Tower Records, Dublin on Sunday. It appeared to be their last copy.
It was misfiled on the shelves (was lucky to find it) so i almost got the impression it had been
taken off the shelves, but this one stayed out cos it was in the wrong place. Anyway, i now see/hear
what the fuss is about. Very muffled with wav version being far superior....email off soon to vinyl
factory.
synthiA wrote:Can you ask Will to send me my replacement of A&e that he promised 4 years ago?
Ha, there is a lot of complaining on this threAd. There is nothing wrong with the cd, the mixing or mastering. Those complaining about the mix.... It's just a very dry, upfront mix. It is not very common to mix like that and people aren't used to it. I love it! There is a problem with the while vinyl tho. I've a/b the two and the vinyl sound is lacking.
But hey, maybe you guys got the promo cd copy??? Jk. What a storm that would be.
maybe, i dunno, really cant listen to it, especially after listening to other stuff that sounds great on my stereo. awaiting my Japanese copy with baited breath.