Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

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TheWarmth
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Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:11 pm

Pitchfork has lost a lot of credibility for a number of reasons over the past few years, at least in my eyes, but I still read it frequently for the news posts and interviews. However, over the past six months or so, the amount of attention they have given to Fiona Apple has been absolutely off the charts. I am 100% convinced that her label and/or management is paying them for this coverage. Has anyone else noticed this? It's driving me crazy how shamelessly they are plugging this woman who, as far as I can tell, is a complete lunatic (see the ridiculous interview with her from yesterday) and doesn't hold much appeal to that website's core audience.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Hofstadter » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 am

http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/2012/04/wh ... t-her.html

If you don't already know what HipsterRunoff/carles is all about, this might be a tad offensive/not funny at all. If you do, it's one of the better posts from this year and you will surely love it. But seriously, don't read it if you don't "get" hipsterrunoff.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by shalloboi » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:16 am

i've taken everything pitchfork has praised with a grain of salt since about 2006. i went to see serena maneesh after reading pitchfork's review of their first album and i think i left after about 20 minutes. not impressed. they were also going on about that band stars back then and where the hell are they now? they regularly give fantastic albums lukewarm reviews because they lack hooks and then back-pedal in a few years when what they originally said is proven unmistakably wrong by the passage of time and their flavor-of-the-month pet bands from that year have inexplicably disappeared never to be heard from again. they also outright ignore great bands for years only to give them attention once it's safe for them to bestow their heavenly praise upon them (perfect example- thee oh sees or pretty much any of those san francisco garage bands).
as if that weren't enough the writing is unbearably pretentious and up its own ass.
i have noticed that they won't shut up about fiona apple. i think that hipster runoff post is right on the money as to why- they often retreat to the 90s when they run out of flavor-of-the-month bands to praise to the skies.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by TheWarmth » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:23 pm

I think there is more to it than Hipster Runoff claims. I think they're getting paid to promote Apple, which really disgusts me and is completely unforgivable. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've discussed this with friends and we can't really see any other explanation.

Here's my favorite part of the recent Pitchfork interview:

Pitchfork: Have you been especially reclusive since you put out Extraordinary Machine seven years ago?

FA: I'd say that I've been reclusive the last 34 years. That was my big thing as a kid, staying home from school. I've trained myself to be psychosomatically sick a lot. To this day, if I go to [L.A. club] Largo-- which is a very comfortable place for me-- I tell my brother, "I have show stomach," which feels like the flu. Anytime I go out, it is just something to deal with, even walking to the grocery store. If I'm supposed to go from one place to another place that isn't that comfortable, I usually don't go.

Pitchfork: Do you go anywhere at all?

FA: I still don't know how to drive. I don't go anywhere, really, except for Largo. My brother drives me. I walk around my neighborhood but I don't go anywhere, nor do I want to. I want to move back to the East Coast. I like Venice, but L.A. is ugly. I would kill myself if I had to look out the window and see some places in L.A. every day.

Pitchfork: What's kept you there for so long?

FA: It's my dog, Janet, who's 13 now. She's pretty sick and she's going to die soon. She had Addison's Disease and it's very dangerous so I don't want to move her; she's never had to ask to go out to pee in Los Angeles because there's always been a backyard and a dog door. This is going to sound morbid, but-- when I'm not with her, I pretend she is already dead. I can't take her on the road and I'm pretty sad about it. She is the most consistent relationship of my life and I will keep her around forever. But I like this idea of pretending that she is dead so that, when she's actually dead, I can pretend she's in another room. Just blur the line. I'm kind of waiting for her to die.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Multi » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:17 pm

TheWarmth wrote:Here's my favorite part of the recent Pitchfork interview:

Pitchfork: blah blah blah

FA: blah blah blah
...so?

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by jack white » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:43 pm

P4K has always been full of shit.
I don't really care if people are paying for coverage. It's all the sheep that read that crap deserve really. Cretinous dump.
gonna burn brightly
for a while

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by debased » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:35 pm

TheWarmth wrote: Has anyone else noticed this?
Yes, I've noticed and you're right.
shalloboi wrote:they regularly give fantastic albums lukewarm reviews....
Have you ever seen their reviews for the Warlocks?

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by nghst » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:50 am

I actually liked Extraordinary Machine and When the Pawn... I haven't heard any of her new songs yet though. Maybe she is getting a lot of coverage, but you have to admit she makes for an interesting interview and story. As one album title put it, sometimes It's the Cracked that the Light Shines Through. It could be that I just have a thing for crazy women. :)

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by jadams501 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:09 am

I feel like Pitchfork kinda messed with my head in my teenage years when I thought their overblown Radiohead reviews "meant something." When I finally realized how big a pretentious scam it all is I pretty much stopped paying attention at all. I assume that most of what they hype at any given moment is disposable, but that being said I have no opinion on Fiona Apple.

A lot of groups from this modern internet era seem to aim to please pre-existing microniches, as opposed to really swinging for the rafters with something universal. By trafficking primarily in this material they become irrelevant to me, and I find their editorial voice pretty unappealing.

But, as we've seen with their recent interviews with J Spaceman, they do sometimes cover some cool stuff.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by shalloboi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:53 am

debased wrote:
shalloboi wrote:they regularly give fantastic albums lukewarm reviews....
Have you ever seen their reviews for the Warlocks?
it's funny you mentioned this because i almost started that tirade.
their 'heavy deavy skull lover' review isn't even that high of a rating, but it has this hilariously begrudging tone. it's like the writer kept being reminded that he's not supposed to like the album.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Multi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Multi wrote:
TheWarmth wrote:Here's my favorite part of the recent Pitchfork interview:

Pitchfork: blah blah blah

FA: blah blah blah
...so?
What exactly bothered you about that part of the Pitchfork interview? Was it Fiona herself or the questions being asked?

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by TheWarmth » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:11 pm

It's a perfect example of the ridiculousness of both Pitchfork and Apple. PFork has said how fascinating and clever she is, but she comes off like a teenager keen to have the public believe that her fragile personality makes her barely fit to function in society. On top of that, I'm supposed to believe that this full-grown woman, who is a professional musican that tours the world to make money and promote her records has so much social anxiety that she is not capable of going to the grocery store? Come on. It's bullshit.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Multi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:01 pm

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Last edited by Multi on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by scarecrowz » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:39 pm

Multi wrote:
TheWarmth wrote:It's a perfect example of the ridiculousness of both Pitchfork and Apple. PFork has said how fascinating and clever she is, but she comes off like a teenager keen to have the public believe that her fragile personality makes her barely fit to function in society. On top of that, I'm supposed to believe that this full-grown woman, who is a professional musican that tours the world to make money and promote her records has so much social anxiety that she is not capable of going to the grocery store? Come on. It's bullshit.
Well, she suffers from mental disorders and was raped as a youth, so I'd say that she likely does have social anxiety--especially as a recognizable public figure.

As for Pitchfork, the questions they are asking seem to be fairly standard if one knows how she commonly behaves.

I dunno, there's no right or wrong here, I just think that the way you view Fiona is the way many view Morrissey; the whiny rich singer (who should just "get over it") that is only comfortable while performing on stage.
Marketing "the talent" as "damaged goods" that can only truly blossom by exorcising their demons through their art is a always a healthy dollar return... Stick a pin in any list of alt rock stars of the last 30 years and you'll hit one with a bunch of issues that will resonate with their management or label's target demographic


... or maybe I overdid the cynical pills today

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Multi » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:06 pm

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by TheWarmth » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:49 am

Well, I had no idea that she was raped as a youth or had/has mental illnesses. For the record, the primary issue that I wanted to address was not Apple herself, but the extreme amount of coverage she has received from Pitchfork leading up to her album release. It's suspect. I have been reading that website on a pretty regular basis for years now and I have never seen them devote this much coverage to any artist.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by scarecrowz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:41 pm

"Mind Is Your Might: Fiona Apple's Oversharing
Why the singer-songwriter's devil-may-care-about-your-buzz-band presence once again holds an unflinching mirror up to our current cultural moment."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClcwKgxu2wk

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by redcloud » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:42 pm

Is the artist's story important to the viewer/listener? Whatever did or didn't happen to Fiona Apple is somewhat irrelevant as her words may mean completely different things to her listeners. Because of this her words may also move in directions that were beyond her original intention.

We often had these debates in art school. The artist's story may give us background info on their art and it may allow us to understand it more but ultimately what each of us bring to the piece and what it speaks to us is just as important (if not more so). That, to me, is the beauty, power and spirit of art and is also what keeps it honest, real and organic.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by flamingrev » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:13 am

She's getting a lot of coverage because a lot of people (myself included) think that she is very talented. I don't keep up with her personal life and I don't care how she comes across in interviews, but others that like her probably do. It's a music site, she makes music, and she isn't exactly prolific so it's a big deal to some people when she releases a new album.

Are you butt-hurt because they haven't given Spiritualized enough attention or something?

I find out about a lot of music that I like through Pitchfork. If there's a better music news site with as much content, please point the way.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by shalloboi » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:45 am

flamingrev wrote:She's getting a lot of coverage because a lot of people (myself included) think that she is very talented. I don't keep up with her personal life and I don't care how she comes across in interviews, but others that like her probably do. It's a music site, she makes music, and she isn't exactly prolific so it's a big deal to some people when she releases a new album.

Are you butt-hurt because they haven't given Spiritualized enough attention or something?

I find out about a lot of music that I like through Pitchfork. If there's a better music news site with as much content, please point the way.
she's been getting a lot of coverage from mainstream media outlets, though. she doesn't really need extensive coverage on a site like pitchfork which is where a lot of people (including you) like to find out about new bands. i doubt anyone's finding out about fiona apple on pitchfork for the first time. the coverage seems like it was bought and that's disappointing for a site like pitchfork which is supposed to have some shred of journalistic integrity.
i'd explain it more but paul already did that at the top of the page. reading about fiona apple on pitchfork constantly is about as odd and out of place as the fact that people are passionately arguing about fiona apple on a spiritualized forum.
it seems to have sparked an interesting dialogue, though. and brought the term 'butt-hurt' to wider awareness.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Multi » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:09 am

flamingrev wrote:Are you butt-hurt because they haven't given Spiritualized enough attention or something?
I think Pitchfork has done a great job helping Jason and SWSL this year.
shalloboi wrote:the coverage seems like it was bought and that's disappointing for a site like pitchfork which is supposed to have some shred of journalistic integrity.
They seemed genuinely excited for her SXSW performance this year and the unveiling of new songs.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by scarecrowz » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:49 pm

shalloboi wrote:
flamingrev wrote:She's getting a lot of coverage because a lot of people (myself included) think that she is very talented. I don't keep up with her personal life and I don't care how she comes across in interviews, but others that like her probably do. It's a music site, she makes music, and she isn't exactly prolific so it's a big deal to some people when she releases a new album.

Are you butt-hurt because they haven't given Spiritualized enough attention or something?

I find out about a lot of music that I like through Pitchfork. If there's a better music news site with as much content, please point the way.
she's been getting a lot of coverage from mainstream media outlets, though. she doesn't really need extensive coverage on a site like pitchfork which is where a lot of people (including you) like to find out about new bands. i doubt anyone's finding out about fiona apple on pitchfork for the first time. the coverage seems like it was bought and that's disappointing for a site like pitchfork which is supposed to have some shred of journalistic integrity.
i'd explain it more but paul already did that at the top of the page. reading about fiona apple on pitchfork constantly is about as odd and out of place as the fact that people are passionately arguing about fiona apple on a spiritualized forum.
it seems to have sparked an interesting dialogue, though. and brought the term 'butt-hurt' to wider awareness.
Exactly

I don't think anybody is knocking Fiona Apple as an artist here, it's Pitchfork's credibility and teen-hipster hyperbole that's being criticised

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Shinesalight » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:46 pm

Er, who is Fiona Apple?! Have I been living in a bubble or something? :?
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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by niamhm » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Shinesalight wrote:Er, who is Fiona Apple?! Have I been living in a bubble or something? :?
I`m with you ,the name means nothing to me :?

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by flamingrev » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Pitchfork doesn't exclusively cover new bands. They cover music that fits within their "taste." Daft Punk is an established artist but Pitchfork goes nuts for them.

If you read Pitchfork regularly, I don't get how you can be surprised at their type of coverage. Rolling Stone might cover Fiona Apple as well, but the same people that read Pitchfork don't necessarily read Rolling Stone.

It's an issue of what you like and what you feel deserves promotion, which is entirely subjective. Pitchfork's audience is interested in Fiona Apple so Pitchfork covers her. If you want to make the leap that this attention is purchased by the record companies, go right ahead. But it's not based on anything credible that I can see.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by flamingrev » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:21 pm

I was working at a record store in the late 90s when a promo of Fiona Apple's 2nd album came out. Nobody else wanted it, so I took it home to try it out. I thought that I didn't like her based on her image and who I thought listened to her. I was surprised that I really enjoyed it. I dig the way her vocals slide around, but mainly I like Jon Brion's production work. For me, it's a pleasure to listen to these recordings, the way all the instruments are balanced and the little details are what makes it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Here's a track I like if anybody doesn't know who she is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK30r_SIZ-g

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by nghst » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:59 am

Here's what Fiona might say if she were privy to our conversation: "Be kind to me or treat me mean. I'll make the most of it, I'm an extraordinary machine!" - from her song Extraordinary Machine :) If only we were all so extraordinary!

As for Pitchfork, who knows why they are so into Fiona? If I read the magazine I would be glad, because she happens to be in the .001% of artists that I like. My musical tastes are an inch wide, but a mile deep, so I'm really thankful when someone I like gets coverage. I can see why someone who isn't a fan could be put off by all the sudden publicity surrounding her, but I think it's because of her eccentricity and the fact that she only puts a record out about once every seven years.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by nghst » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:30 am

Here's something she has in common with Jason and that is making hard to watch videos. Her video for her new single Every Single Night is here: http://www.inquisitr.com/251618/fiona-a ... ght-video/ :shock: She is nothing if not eccentric.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Hofstadter » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:12 pm

If you didn't see the BNM coming...

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/167 ... l-ever-do/

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by TheWarmth » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:48 pm

I wasn't going to comment again in this thread, but since someone bumped it with today's album review, I figured I'd try to make a better case for my argument. Obviously some of you disagree with me, but doesn't this seem excessive?

January 26: News: New Fiona Apple Album "Absolutely" Coming in 2012... But Not in the Next Few Weeks
February 14: News: Fiona Apple to Play Pitchfork SXSW Showcase
February 21: News: Fiona Apple Announces U.S. Dates
March 7: News: Fiona Apple Reveals Album Title
March 14: News: Watch Fiona Apple Perform Two New Songs at SXSW
March 14: News: Report: Fiona Apple at SXSW
March 19: News: Watch Fiona Apple Perform Another New Song
March 30: News: Read a Letter Fiona Apple Wrote to a Young Gay Fan in 2000
April 2: News: Fiona Apple Reveals Album Tracklist, Artwork
April 3: News: Fiona Apple's Album Gets June 19 Release Date
April 3: Feature: Articles: Mind Is Your Might: Fiona Apple's Oversharing
April 9: News: Fiona Apple Announces North American Tour
April 23: News: New Fiona Apple: "Every Single Night"
May 8: News: Fiona Apple Details The Idler Wheel... Deluxe Version
June 4: Feature Interview
June 4: News: Listen: New Fiona Apple: "Werewolf"
June 6: News: Fiona Apple: Interview Outtakes (This is the post where I think they're really taking the coverage too far.)

June 9: Video: Fiona Apple: "Every Single Night"
June 18: Fiona Apple Adds Leg to Idler Wheel Tour
June 18: Album Review (BNM 9.0/10)

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by runaway » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:51 am

Without Fiona Apple there would probably be no Joanna Newsom.
That's reason enough to hate her.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Horrorflick » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:13 am

Multi wrote:
TheWarmth wrote:It's a perfect example of the ridiculousness of both Pitchfork and Apple. PFork has said how fascinating and clever she is, but she comes off like a teenager keen to have the public believe that her fragile personality makes her barely fit to function in society. On top of that, I'm supposed to believe that this full-grown woman, who is a professional musican that tours the world to make money and promote her records has so much social anxiety that she is not capable of going to the grocery store? Come on. It's bullshit.
Well, she suffers from mental disorders and was raped as a youth, so I'd say that she likely does have social anxiety--especially as a recognizable public figure.

As for Pitchfork, the questions they are asking seem to be fairly standard if one knows how she commonly behaves.

I dunno, there's no right or wrong here, I just think that the way you view Fiona is the way many view Morrissey; the whiny rich singer (who should just "get over it") that is only comfortable while performing on stage.
Hey, whoa there! Let's not go comparing Fiona Apple to Morrissey. That man's got serious talent, and loads of it, even if he is a bit "eccentric" She's put out, what, 2 albums? The. Smiths. Even suggesting a comparison is like saying "I just view 8-point lake and the pacific ocean as bodies of water." Not even close...
Something Wicked That Way Goes...

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by Horrorflick » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:22 am

nghst wrote:Here's something she has in common with Jason and that is making hard to watch videos. Her video for her new single Every Single Night is here: http://www.inquisitr.com/251618/fiona-a ... ght-video/ :shock: She is nothing if not eccentric.
okayyyyy...??? Ah, those kids do have a thing for that marketing though, don't they? I'd bet my left nut that Showtime or HBO will buying this. It's practically tailor-made for the next Six Feet Under or Girls or whatever the fuck...
Something Wicked That Way Goes...

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by juepucta » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:47 pm

runaway wrote:Without Fiona Apple there would probably be no Joanna Newsom.
That's reason enough to hate her.
I blame Bjork for the Newsom elf. Hope the harp falls on her ;)

-G.

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Re: Pitchfork : Fiona Apple : WTF?

Post by nghst » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:14 pm

What I like about Fiona is what I like about Jason. They both march to the beat of their own drums. They aren't trying to please anyone. They are instead working to make something new, creative, something they can be proud of, even if critics and listeners turn against them. One can certainly judge Fiona based on her skills musically, but they can't fault her for being vulnerable and passionate in her songwriting. I've listened to her new album 3 or 4 times and it's not as easy listening as her last two albums. I really like her first single Every Single Night though. The critics seem to love the album, as she is scoring a 93 on Metacritic right now. I'm going to listen to it more and see if it grows on me.

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