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Forwarded email from old Spiritualized list

Post by spzretent » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:17 am

On a covers record called: Sunday Nights - The Songs of Junior Kimbrough

Spiritualized - Sad Days Lonely Nights

A total throwaway track, Sad Days Lonely Nights is yet another nugget
of noodling self-indulgent waste of time and precious MBs in my iPod mini.
I truly, truly hope that Spaceman gets these freeform jam noise blasts out
of his system. It's getting real tough for me to go back and listen to the
later albums without getting real bored real fast. Maybe I've changed over
the years but what's been constant is my love, admiration & devotion to
this man's music. I realize this is a cover song and I have not heard the
original, but Spz covers used to have the Spz 'sound'. So much so, that it
wouldn't sound like the original at all. Lately, there is just nothing
remotely interesting about listening to incessant noodling that seemingly
accompanies every single or b-side of the last few years, particularly after
the Let It Come Down era. We heard glimpses in 1997 with Cop Shoot Cop,
The Individual et al. But now I'm left to deduce that Pierce has simply run
out of creative juice. That's hard for me to say or to believe but what else
could it be?

Sorry to say, and this is coming from one of the biggest spiritualized fans
around, this new song (if you can call it that), left me truly disappointed
with Spaceman. In fact, it's safe to say that from Amazing Grace on, I've
lost
total interest. I mean, even the two Complete Works' records have *nothing*
new or even remotely rare. Any of those songs can be found pretty easily.
How about something new Jason? It's all just filler.

Hear this Mr. Pierce: Less mock-schlock, more psyche-rock.
And please, drop the Spaceman moniker. It just doesn't fit anymore.


One of your biggest & most loyal fans


This email came from someone who used to post on the old site. I deleted his name. I just thought this would an interesting post for this message board.

mag

Post by mag » Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:31 am

my thoughts exactly

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Post by u_nderscore » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:11 pm

i'd much rather jason made records the way he wants to, than he started trying to re-create moments from his past.
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Post by spzretent » Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:26 pm

Thats all part and parcel of being an artist I suppose. I, as a fan, would never want to dictate what direction I would want to see him go in. Thats where art and commerce collide. He'd just be doing it to make money.
Its like the oft mentioned Flaming Lips. I despise the last 2 records. However, they have probably sold more of the last 2 releases than all the others combined. So whos right? Probably both of us. But they are making more money.

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:22 pm

I don't mind the free-form noise - indeed, sometimes it is of that that the most listenable moments on the new releases emerge - but I have begun to wish that someone would play a recognizable solo once in a while to distinguish the various jams. Both Jason and whoever's playing the While My Guitar Gently Weeps thing on The Ballad of Richie Lee are competent lead guitarists.

But I think my comments elsewhere (especially in regards to Amazing Grace) indicate my sympathy to this poster's disillusionment. I still believe that Let It Come Down was an admirable experiment, but as a statement of intent it's a dead end, because it completely dissolves the distinction between individual tribute and outright pastiche. Jason has always been a collage artist above all, but on that record his single-minded classicism overcame any novelty. So he abandoned that approach too. Amazing Grace is understandably perfunctory even in moments more identifiably "Spiritualized". I think most of his future records will sound similar.

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Post by Clownbait » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:00 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:I think most of his future records will sound similar.
In short, It's over.

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Post by a beautiful noise » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:40 pm

well to me thats quite ignorant. to complain about a cover yet not here the original?!?!?!?!?

sorry maybe you cats don't get the blues, but junior kimbrough is an untapped gem in the blues world. give his name a google and see what the rest of the world has to say.

as for the current/recent releases, first before you bitch about it, think about it. as a musician myself, i totally respect AND appreciate what jase and co. accomplished with Amazing Grace. i mean to record a track after only trying to figure out your part is impresive. to see how the tracks evolved after they played them live for year was astounding.

if your looking another lazer guided, go listen to one of the copyists bands that are out there. if you wanna follow an ever-changing and ever-evolving project hang out here.

and to the original poster, if you want something that stays the same and sounds the same, try SPECTRUM!!!

xxxshonnxxx

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:20 pm

Shonn, I don't think the point you're arguing against is at all in the spirit of what others are saying or what I intended. As for admiring the spontaneity of Amazing Grace, well, all I can say is that most of the songs sound painfully produced ("Oh Baby") and the ones with genuine improvisation ("Rated X") aren't successful at all.

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:27 pm

Clownbait wrote: In short, It's over.
I guess that's more or less what I mean. Or, more accurately, Jason's period of innovation is behind him, and the records which follow could accurately be termed 'latter-day'. Which is to say that Amazing Grace mark two would be to Pure Phase what the reunion album was to Marquee Moon, or what any reunion album is by comparison to canon LPs. It is a subjective rather than objective difference, but there are objective differences too.

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Post by JPB » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:46 pm

I think it's all about context. If you listen to any of the records in isolation they are really strong. It's only when you start to compare them that you start to find fault. But, it's harder said than done, of course.

I would rather a band released a record that sounded different to the last (but I didn't like so much) than stuck with the same thing.

This sounds a little blunt compared to the previous posts. So be it.

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Post by a beautiful noise » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:09 am

$26

"I realize this is a cover song and I have not heard the
original, but Spz covers used to have the Spz 'sound'. So much so, that it
wouldn't sound like the original at all"


uhhm, how would they know if he hasn't heard the original.

sorry i should have clarified it was intended for the original post.

JPB- i totally agree, treading water musically can get really old really quick for me. i commend the gang for trying something different, yeah AG has it questionable points, but it also contains some real gems.

bytheway $26, curious how Rated X isn't successful??

xxxshonnxxx

p/s it's also very difficult to place a time limit on ones creativity.

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Post by twentysixdollars » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:23 am

a beautiful noise wrote: bytheway $26, curious how Rated X isn't successful??
...because no-one can think of anything interesting to say on their instruments, and the vocal section is banal.

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Post by a beautiful noise » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:46 am

ha-ha $26,

i thought Rated X was nice go at it.

could have been longer! :D


xxxshonnxxx



p/s go to bed it has to be late!

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Post by TheWarmth » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:41 pm

Regarding "Rated X," I have to say that I think that song is one of the true standouts off of AG. The Maida Vale/Zane Lowe session version (b-side of "Cheapster") is much better, but either way I think that song is great. The into/outro bits could be shorter, but the song is lyrically very powerful and the melody is classic Jason Pierce in it's simplicity. I even like the telephone vocal effect. I don't really see what's not to like.

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Post by JPB » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:07 pm

Erm... me too. But then, I really like AG as a record. The poor bugger got trashed for the 'overproduced' Let it come down and then got trashed for the more simplistic AG.

Love the debate!

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Post by candy-cane-girl » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:12 pm

As a lady who likes her blues, i must admit, i think this song is great.

A good cover version, and if not that then one imagines it would be a great song to er "make the lurve" with, the constnat hammering at the start if the song got my heart racing anyway.

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Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by SpacemanRob » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:11 pm

Occasionally old and new equals good. From the Amazing Grace EP 'Do It All Over Again' segues perfectly into 'Come Together'....
Again maybe the cause of complaint is really more to certain peoples lack of muscial listening to move on and less on Spz to offer more variance?....
Sure we would all like to hear the perfection of PP & LAGWAFIS again but maybe we dream too hard....
However because of our stunted listening growth we have been unable to move beyong the Byrds and Brain Wilson doesn't mean music hasn't....
And maybe this is where our trans-atlantic hearing becomes most exposed....
Maybe the Byrds never impacted because they could never experiment, never rock, never sing the blues and committed the cardinal sin of venturing near c*****y music.... Never a worse strain of music to taint the ears of anyone outside of Texas.... As before maybe Brians inability to truely expand upon rather dull, popular, lift music failed to save him and maybe his 'inability' to make music for 20 odd years saved him....
I felt far more excitement and meaning at Julian Cope's gig last Friday than Brian's piss-poor re-cycling of lift music last year.... Maybe we should all claim mental disabilites to ensure credence from overly sentimental music journalists....
And as in previous posts here maybe Spz will never reach the special heights of LAGWAFIS and PP but maybe this is asking the impossible.... At least he is moving on.... If you want the same formula indefinately then ejoy REM, U2, and the insufferable Beach Boys.... If you want at least somer variance come back to Spz.... But maybe you cannot move on from piss-poor, ordinary lift-music, maybe you cannot hear anymore.... and just maybe you are scared of anything different.... Maybe like $26 you can only see 1 dimension and this has to include Bush.... Maybe, just maybe, this account for the 51% bigots, racists, sexists and the evilly surreal shit happening right now????
Think outside of the box, think away from the pedestrian MOR mainstream, think the Byrds climazed quickly with no effect, think Brian has no discernable talent outside of mental disability and think maybe i want something else.....
Fuck me i can see more excitement on the House Of Love re-forming.... Outside of Destroy The Heart they were shit as well.... The Wedding Present???? And yet they provoke more excitement than the usual shit discussed here.... Blur, Byrds, Beach Boys, C******Y.....
Open your ears and you might just hear.... This is the real travesty....

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Post by spzretent » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:31 am

Nice thinly veiled fight picked with $26. His response ought to be a doozy!
While I have nothing good or bad to say about the Beach Boys, the Byrds are another matter altogether to me personally.
Whats wrong with veeringly closely to country. The Stones did it too. Or are they another piss poor non Julian Cope-ish band. The man himself, JC(Cope that is) has plenty of crap records in his arsenal. And I am a fan. Or maybe I didn't listen properly :shock:
As for the House Of Love. IMHO one of the most underrated of the Creation bands on record and live. The enitire fisrt record, most of the second and almost everything off the first four singles are fantastic. Granted they weren't "weird" but they were a great band.
Wedding Present? Not a fan of unibrow bands.
Last edited by spzretent on Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by BzaInSpace » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:32 am

Now, there's nothing wrong with crumbly music

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by Clownbait » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:37 am

SpacemanRob wrote:And as in previous posts here maybe Spz will never reach the special heights of LAGWAFIS and PP but maybe this is asking the impossible.... At least he is moving on....
I dont have a problem with Jason moving on, I have a problem with the song quality not being up to par.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by telliott3 » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:14 am

[quote="SpacemanRob"]
Maybe the Byrds never impacted because they could never experiment, never rock, never sing the blues and committed the cardinal sin of venturing near c*****y music....

You will be judged :twisted:

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Post by twentysixdollars » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:44 am

(cracks knuckles)

I really can't be bothered to argue with SpacemanRob, with whom I've been through this nonsense before. Generally speaking we came to the mutual conclusion that he likes music only to the extent that no-one else likes it, doesn't like anything unpretentious, doesn't like anything pretentious, doesn't like white music, doesn't like black music, doesn't like anything with guitars, doesn't like anything without guitars, doesn't like anything American, doesn't like anything British, doesn't like anything soft, doesn't like anything loud, doesn't like anything fast, doesn't like anything slow, doesn't like me, and has a weird crush on me which precipitates tired old arguments such as these. He dismisses country (and American folk) music outright, but not the blues, even though they're one and the same. He follows a circuitous logic by which his strongest opinions are reserved for music to which he has not listened, deeming it not worth his time, even though he's never had the opportunity to actually listen and thus come to a conclusion as to its worthiness. He hates Brian Wilson because a lot of intelligent people like him. He hates country music because a lot of intelligent people hate it. He dismisses acts outright for not being eclectic enough. He likes only one kind of music.

He accuses anyone who likes something he doesn't like of being a bigot, a sexist, a homophobe, what have you, or even a Bush supporter (who, by his word, are Republicists). I have absolutely no desire to explain why this reasoning is stupid. I will simply paraphrase, and say that it is.

I figure he hates the following, despite zero familiarity with their recordings, principally because I like them: Marvin Gaye, the New York Dolls, the Velvet Underground, the MC5, Otis Redding, Joan Baez, Leonard Cohen, Van Morrison, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Love, the Verve, Brian Eno, Burning Spear, Freddie Hubbard, Django Reinhardt, the Zombies, Smokey Robinson. I'm sure he's got some absurd reason for disliking all of them stemming from their 'endless commercial concessions' and 'boring elevator music' tendencies. And yes, I just picked twenty artists I like at random, all of whom I think have moments of brilliance and innovation. And I'm sure he thinks they all suck. And he's wrong.

He's right generally about the Byrds being unable to sing the blues. John York could, but he was only on two of their records. So could Gene Clark, but ditto, and anyway he didn't start till his solo records. The one great Byrds blues was an instrumental and with that guitar was closer to jazz.

I have broader taste than him. I have better taste than him.
I enjoy more music than he does. I enjoy music more than he does.
I'm older than him and smarter than him.

Spzretent & Runcible are older and smarter than me, and thus older than him and smarter than him, and in my absence well-armed to deal with him.
TheWarmth is a really nice guy with a lot of talent.

At least Guerrilla is fun to twit.
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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by twentysixdollars » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:47 am

Clownbait wrote:
I dont have a problem with Jason moving on, I have a problem with the song quality not being up to par.
Well put. Same here.

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Post by jess farr » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:16 pm

agree
I liked the production on AG (or non-production)
I just didn't think the songs were there.
a cool concept that kinda missed the mark for me.

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Post by TheWarmth » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:05 pm

SpacemanRob ... I agree with you that it's unrealistic to expect Spiritualized to return to the days of PP and LAGWAFIS. Obviously, we're not going to get another one of either of those albums. However, I don't really see how it's relevant to dismiss the Beach Boys and the Byrds, not to mention the entire genre of country music. How can you be so narrow-minded?

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Post by sly saxon » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:54 pm

TheWarmth wrote: How can you be so narrow-minded?
Asnwer: All Too Easily.
It's all happening!

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Post by sly saxon » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:58 pm

JPB wrote:The poor bugger got trashed for the 'overproduced' Let it come down and then got trashed for the more simplistic AG.
But all that was 'more simplistic' about AG is the instrumentation, and lack of rehearsal. It is just as overproduced as LICD.

I prefer LICD on the whole. It is baroque, where AG is stilted.

(By the way, you meant 'simple' rather than simplistic, I think).
It's all happening!

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Post by twentysixdollars » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:26 pm

sly saxon wrote:
But all that was 'more simplistic' about AG is the instrumentation, and lack of rehearsal. It is just as overproduced as LICD.
...if not more so: there are several orchestral tracks where the strings and horns aren't integrated at all ("Oh Baby", "Lay It Down Slow"), not to mention the same ungestupt rocker four times, and if there wasn't any rehearsal, they must have done a few hundred takes.

Incidentally, about half of Let It Come Down is unabashed country music. ("The Straight and the Narrow", "Anything More"; "Lord Can You Hear Me"; bits of "The Twelve Steps"; "Stop Your Crying", even "Don't Just Do Something", which is anyway as obvious a Beach Boys pastiche as Jason's ever done - ditto "Do It All Over Again", though the intended tribute might have been to Spector.) Hmm.

So SpacemanRob can defend LICD, even though it's principally a country-western Beach Boys tribute, principally because it's made by a middle-aged Englishman? And when you work out the fact that country and country-gospel are the same thing, that covers practically every song Jason's ever written.

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Post by spzretent » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:08 pm

...and with current and former members of Julian Cope's band!

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Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by SpacemanRob » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:51 pm

JC/JS band last Friday rocked.... Without out doubt the recent Spz tours have made Doggen an even better rock n roll guitarist and surely becoming the best band JS has had....
Much of $26 list i enjoy and love BUT crucially i have carried on loving since many of these bands have ceased to exist or to perform..... We can all support bands that over the years have produced 1 or 2 great records but many can move on from this. It is through an arrogant egotistical mind that competition ensures and nobody can move on....
I would rather enjoy the perpetually changing shows of John Peel than transform into 'reality tv shite'.... You have to move on.... To become a simple sycophant of somebody who may or may not have been relevant 40 years ago shrieks of the inability to move on.... Get over it....
This Xmas a great present came from someone that googled Spz and found Winter North Atlantic.... This band made no more sense than Spz or anyone else to this person but at least showed they were trying.... Equally its an album i can continue to listen to.....
With regards to c*****y i find this genre the least accessible and the most offensive.... Made me think of Michael Howerd's new immagration policy this week and maybe me think of all the apologies for Thatcher years ago.... Makes me think of Bush and the Republicans(spelling is crucial for the weak) and makes me think of the 'Future Dictionary of America' which again still is too conservative....
To inter-link the blues with c*****y for me is heresy..... Willie Dixon, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee, Robert Johnson.... All were fighting the bigots of the South.... The South listened to c*****y while wearing their hoods....
And yet again i listen as most days to Spz and i am excited as otherwise i wouldn't be here.... But i can combine my love with them for the new....

Come on....

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by runcible » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:39 pm

SpacemanRob wrote:Without out doubt the recent Spz tours have made Doggen an even better rock n roll guitarist and surely becoming the best band JS has had....
Personally I can't link the guy who tears psychedelic guitar style apart in Brain Donor with the floppy fringed guy who stands at the front of Spiritualized gigs and you can't work out which bits he's playing. Doggen is completely wasted in Spiritualized and remains a mere journeyman although his talents are obvious.

I'm with spzretent on country. I loathe it generally but I can't resist the Stones stabs at it, and I like quite a bit of the Byrds efforts in that direction.

And um, May The Circle Be Unbroken? Spacemen 3's version is pretty close to how it sounded originally. Care to 'classify' that, Rob?

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Post by a beautiful noise » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:53 pm

yeah rob, you had me unto the "country" bit.

i think doggan is more than a mere journeymen with spiritualized. i think that jase has found his line up that he can direct spiritualized in a way that makes it worth it for doggan and the rest to stick around.

and as far as 'will the circle be unbroken", SP3's version is a glorious take.

most country is difficult to swallow, but there has been way too numerous achievements in that genre to mention. it's foolish and close-minded to avoid it as a whole.


xxxshonnxxx

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by BzaInSpace » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:58 pm

SpacemanRob wrote:
To inter-link the blues with c*****y for me is heresy.....

Like Ray Charles? Mixing the sacred and the profane? Risky stuff Rob.

Accessble? The voices on some of those records never cut right through you?


Come on...


Eileen

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Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by SpacemanRob » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:46 pm

Doggen can play with Spz, can play with JC, can play the blues and looks 'fantasticly' like a fucked up gorgeous Ronnie Wood.... And now after the Spz tours (could) and can rock.... Many times i felt last Friday the sheer enjoyment of playing, rocking, yellow faced that there was a guitarist in tune with the night, himself and next time ....
The Stones as previously mentioned loved and continue to love the blues.... Much respect to using many early supports such as HW to show this education.... Little Red Rooster(Genius Willie Dixon) etc .....
Ray Charles definately had the blues, loved the blues and played the blues....
Sure it is wrong to generalise but c*****y can offer nothing of the above....
Love rock n roll but hear nothing with a country twang.... Even sometimes can enjoy the occasional Neil Young, Devandra Banhart, 'the man in black'..... Nothing but the blues....
Come on....

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Post by spzretent » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:47 pm

I am perplexed, to say the least, that everything you name check either Julian Cope or someone with one degree of seperation from JC.
As far as your argument basically saying all country fans are bigots. That is just flat out idiotic and you can dismiss the whole genre because you dont care for it. But you aren't helping your argument by equating country to bigotry. By the way, almost half the US didn't vote for Bush and i'm not quite sure why he keeps popping up in your posts.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by twentysixdollars » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:12 am

SpacemanRob wrote:To inter-link the blues with c*****y for me is heresy..... Willie Dixon, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee, Robert Johnson.... All were fighting the bigots of the South.... The South listened to c*****y while wearing their hoods....
Heresy or not, it's historical fact. The blues is a crossbreed of Anglo/Irish folksong and strophic worksong (sea shanties, in other words). So is gospel. So is country. There was even a half-baked history that traced all to Portugal some years back. Whatever it is, at a certain point in history the line between blues and country is so tenuous it's practically non-existent. What sort of music did Lead Belly play? He's often referred to as a bluesman, or the first career folksinger. So how come his music sounds so much like country? And, because I suspect you'll have to look him up, Lead Belly was in fact black.

There were a great many African-Americans who loved country - Ray Charles among them. I imagine he's tossing in his grave that forty-three years after "Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music" his faithful intentions and historical insight have to compete with idiocy like yours. There's also the Staple Singers and countless others.

Incidentally, you know what the white supremacists listen to now? Punk rock.

Asshole.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by twentysixdollars » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:13 am

SpacemanRob wrote: Little Red Rooster(Genius Willie Dixon) etc ......
That's a Sam Cooke song.
He liked country too. ("Ain't That Good News")

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by spzretent » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:44 am

[quote="SpacemanRob"]
Sure it is wrong to generalise but c*****y quote]

Whats your problem? You wont even spell country. You need help.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:35 am

twentysixdollars wrote:
SpacemanRob wrote: Little Red Rooster(Genius Willie Dixon) etc ......
That's a Sam Cooke song.
He liked country too. ("Ain't That Good News")
$26 ... Cooke didn't write "Little Red Rooster." It's credited to Burnett/Dixon, isn't it? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post. I agree with you on all your other points in this thread, though.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by twentysixdollars » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:24 pm

TheWarmth wrote: $26 ... Cooke didn't write "Little Red Rooster." It's credited to Burnett/Dixon, isn't it?
You're right, of course. That post was written in a hurry. I suppose I intended something like "Sam Cooke did that song too." My post didn't suggest "Sam Cooke wrote it" (although I wasn't sure), but I realize it was awkwardly phrased. I needed some sort of segue to "Ain't That Good News", which he did write (sort of).

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by ash » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:37 am

spzretent wrote:Whats your problem? You wont even spell country. You need help.
He won't even tell us which c*****y he comes from!

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Post by sly saxon » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:56 am

C*****y = cockney (On the basis of other run-ins I've had with this character, who also hates Blur on the basis that they're posh boys pretending to be Salt of the Earth London types - in fact, they're neither posh, nor pretending).

I really admire the people here who've had the patience to argue with this person; he is SO wrong in almost every opinion he has, it's almost as though he decides he doesn't like something (which would be fair enough), and then sets to work post-rationalising any number of reasons why (often, this will be along the lines: "I imagine lots of horrible people like this, therefore it is bad." From there, it's but a short step to: "The 'fact' that some of the people who like this stuff are horrible, must mean that Everyone who likes it agrees with the horrible people. Grrr.")

Like I say, well done for arguing with it. I simply couldn't be arsed.
It's all happening!

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Post by SpacemanRob » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:44 pm

Still after many irrelavent posts(stand up SS) nobody has contradicted my original post on this topic. Sure we can digress into the merits or not of the evil sinful genre of c*****y but.....
Where are the discussions on new bands? Where are the people falling over themselves to support something wonderfully new and adventerous.... The point being that whether you agree with my opinion of Brian Wilson, the Byrds etc.... Nothing posted her contradicts to date that new Spz segues with old at least is something if nobody else is looking forward.... Keep looking back....

Come On....

$26 - Sam Cooke..... Really poor way out of trying to admit your wrong as well.....

SS(Are you some biazarre Judas Pries fan-club????) - If after all this time you cannot see Blur as middle-class, private school educated wankers then you definately have no mind. But rock on if you are a huge JP fan....

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Post by BzaInSpace » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:44 pm

Easy Robbie - I know for a fact that a lot of people who post here listen to all kinds of music, as hardcore as you like...certainly new and adventurous.

Is Julian Cope any more new and adventurous than Spiritualized? Cope will be indebted to krautrock eternal
Understand... myself and many others here listen to the full whack - why set these limits about what you can and can't listen too?

Music isn't dictated by fashion... but you know this right?

Rob, give us some bands you are into to chew over - but you can't mention Julian Cope. [...or the Spiritualized band pool].


And get a ride, or something.

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Post by TheWarmth » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:48 pm

I like Blur, The Byrds, Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys, some of the songs on Amazing Grace and a fair amount of country music. I think a lot of the people who post on this board do too, so you’re not going to have much luck convincing everyone that all of the above are shit. Come on.

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Post by TheWarmth » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:53 pm

Speaking of brand new music ... the new Doves album leaked. Has anyone else heard it? I'm a little disappointed. I thought it would be better.

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Post by spzretent » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:02 pm

Rob:
You are just another one of those people who post something and as soon as it hits the board you think its the truth. Like people who believe their own bullshit even thought they know full well they are bullshitting. What about The Earlies?...see thread. What about Bloemfontein?...oft mentioned on this board?( I was so excited by this band I started a label and put out their CD)! What about David Viner? Soledad Brothers. You want me to go on? Truth is this is one of the most active message boards out of a slew of band message boards. Taste in music here runs pretty diverse too.
No, we dont all get along all the time but there is still much respect given in terms of musical taste.
Your condescending generalzations not whithstanding. Your posts are bullshit. You dont think people have not only poked holes in your argument? I think they were pretty well blown to smithereens!

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Post by SpacemanRob » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:05 pm

Sunn o))), Mercury Rev, And You Will No Us By The Trail Of Dead, M83, Wolf Eyes, and indeed JC Citzen Cain'd...... Just a few but each time something excites....
However new Suicide makes SS's Judas Priest sound good....

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Post by SpacemanRob » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:13 pm

Spzretent - Often i can dig your threads and nice finally we are discussing newness.... The Earlies and Mr David Viner i can dig....
For Bloefontain i respect you love and desire and its this emotion i am particularly appealing to....
For the Soledad Brothers i think they are lazy and spent too much time clinging to the White Stripes reputation.... Afraid to let go and afraid to move forward.... To pedestrian and to concise.... I dont think they understand the blues and at the Electric Ballroom they were shite....
But still the thread is improving....
And in an earlier thread if there is anyone from Canada would love to know more about Winter North Atlantic as i am digging them a lot.....

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by TheWarmth » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:15 pm

SpacemanRob wrote:Sunn o))), Mercury Rev, And You Will No Us By The Trail Of Dead, M83, Wolf Eyes, and indeed JC Citzen Cain'd...... Just a few but each time something excites....
However new Suicide makes SS's Judas Priest sound good....
Sunn O))) ~ gave their album a listen at the record store. Thought it was horrid sludge and boring as hell.

Mercury Rev ~ new album is fantastic

Trail Of Dead ~ new album is supposed to be awful, but haven't heard it. Also, they were terrible at Coachella '04.

M83 ~ Good! Saw them live at the end of '04. Like the new album.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by sly saxon » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:17 pm

SpacemanRob wrote:SS(Are you some biazarre Judas Pries fan-club????) - If after all this time you cannot see Blur as middle-class, private school educated wankers then you definately have no mind. But rock on if you are a huge JP fan....
Surely it is obvious (as in OBVIOUS) that my log in is a reference to Sky Saxon, aka Ritchie Marsh, lead singer and bassist with the hilarious The Seeds, ace one-chord-wonders from way back when, and nothing to do with the NWOBHM. Or at least it would be obvious to anyone who took some trouble to know stuff before opening their mouth. Or something.

As for Blur, once again; as long as you consider it relevant, I will reiterate that at least three (3) of them (including Damon Albarn), went to state schools (Albarn and Coxon to a Comprehensive in Colchester, James to a Grammar School in Bournemouth). I don't think their first album was their best by any means.

Middle class, perhaps they are. There are a lot of us around. I hope you don't expect us all to apologise to you personally.

But let me get this straight. Eveything we (ie those of us who are not you) like is shit, and conservative (all the wide and varied types of music, old, new, difficult, popular, country, soul), and poor naive souls that we are, we must have been conned into liking it by the man.
Whereas everything you like (which is straight ahead rock, and ersatz kroutrock, and blues (as long as there's no country influence in sight) is fabulously adventurous and generally wonderful.
It's all happening!

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Post by spzretent » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:22 pm

Rob:
You are confusing your opinion with the fact these are new bands being mentioned. Opinions are different.
IMHO I think the Soledads are more interesting than the White Stripes. To take it one step further, one could accuse Mr David Viner of clinging to the Soledads coat tails. They are all over his record and the label that put it out is right here in Dee-Troit! I think they are all worthy of repeated listens. I only heard of David Viner here on this message board.
Like this band being mentioned Mainline. Whatever tracks are on their website were really good. Derivative? Yep. But good none the less.

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Post by SpacemanRob » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:38 pm

SS - Open your ears... To eulogise a band that apes Chas n Dave, Pavement, and Spz(Thirteen???) can mean nothing more than you cannot hear the truely obvious derivative but often straight copy.....
Spz - It just seem Mr David Viner is trying to express himself more... The Soledad Brorther seem not to be trying and seem to have no personaility.... Sometimes laziness belies lack of expressionn and they seem to have this.....
Warmth - Try Sunn O)) again as their majestic drone bursts into a brilliant wipeout and ensures many different and wonderful dream-like dreams.... On an early morning they provoke many highs and remind me of SP3 without lead guitars but forced to use only bass....

Rock on....

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Post by twentysixdollars » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:22 pm

I like Metric.

I've always liked God Is My Copilot.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by twentysixdollars » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:23 pm

SpacemanRob wrote:SS - Open your ears... To eulogise a band that apes Chas n Dave, Pavement, and Spz(Thirteen???) can mean nothing more than you cannot hear the truely obvious derivative but often straight copy.....
...truely obvious indeed. I bet Rob is in a band. I bet it sucks.

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Post by sly saxon » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:33 pm

I don't think I've been 'eulogising'. Defending, perhaps.

Why do you do it Rob? I like what I want to like. I (even) like a lot of the same things you like (Trail of Dead ferinstance). And yet when I like something you don't like, you attack me and the band I like (never the music though - just the profile, or the personality, or the background, or YOUR PREJUDICE). And yet at the end I'm the narrow minded conservative! For having the strength of conviction to listen to something, and maybe like it IN SPITE of the fact that lots of other people like it.

Furthermore, you do so in the most unfathomable English I've ever seen - you should try to use more simple words - your misuse of 'difficult' words makes it hard to distinguish between what you actually mean and what you seem to mean. Who knows, if you stopped trying to put so much invective in your posts, you might come across as a nicer person.

I've heard a bit of Sunn 0))), and would like to hear more. However, I already have Earth's record (Earth 2 Ultra low frequency edition, Sub Pop 1993). I think it's ok (my housemates thought I'd got a record of someone hoovering): do I need to bother getting Sunn 0)))?
It's all happening!

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Post by twentysixdollars » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:56 pm

I don't know why you bother, sly. I figure that if enough people learn to like it, he'll stop, and he'll be telling us to crack open the mystic flaps on our eardrums in some other direction while trilling some other swahili incantation to get at the 'real rock n roal'.

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Post by SpacemanRob » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:22 pm

SS - Ok definately buy Sunn OO)) as their bass drones truely fuck with you. Kind of like 'Take Me To The Other Side' if the emphasis moves to the drone utopia of the bass. Each album, much like Sp3, needs to be listened to from start to finish as one endless trip.... I think 'White 2' is astonishing in its intensity and sheer paranoia.... Take a walk Sunday morning across, hopefully, deserted area with your bag of medication and i am sure you will write by the evening on a great trip and eulogise a great group.....
$26 - As always cheap digs which are getting cheaper.... Must hurt that it is becoming apparent you can't move on from BW & the Byrds.... Still you have your memories of what its like to discover something cool and where it lead you.... Maybe i am wrong and in fact you lead the Judas Priest fan club..... Shame as a washed up music journalist you have nothing to say of any interest..... At least Lester * Nick fucked up in style..... Move on man and open your eyes.... Sure i can bring you glasses and you can enjoy the new colours and the new dreams.... Shame....

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Post by TheWarmth » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:13 am

Just curious, Rob ~ when you say "move on," do you mean that those of us who enjoy the Beach Boys and the Byrds should stop listening to those records? Should we come to our senses and decide that they aren't very good? I don't understand. What would you say if someone told you that you're too obsessed with Spacemen 3, you need to move on, man. You'd think it ridiculous. I listened to Surf's Up the other day and loved it. Why would I want to stop listening to it? Just to prove that it's not the only thing I listen to, I also gave Golden Sun by Manual & Syntaks a spin today ... have you heard that album?

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:57 am

I don't like bands whose names I can't pronounce.

I tend to prefer older records because it is reasonable to return to the point of origin for a sound that has otherwise not evolved much. It makes me comfortable to know that I'm listening to music evolving teleologically rather than something made in a vaccuum, which, by the way, sums up your knowledge of pop history. You can't convince me that any of the new generation of droners are any more worthy than Spacemen 3, and those goddamn records are twenty years old, and I have them already, and they don't cost anything as a result. Why bother listening to a Marsalis when there's perfectly good Miles sitting around? Of course the former is OK if you've exhausted your supply of the latter. New records also cost a lot of money. And when they're shit it's money that could have been parlayed into some nice wine. I think at least Runcible will concur with the latter point.

But you're right, Rob. I took your advice today. I threw away all my Byrds albums. I'm going to spend the weekend listening to my radiator. The bass drones man. They fuck you up stylin'. And you ain't wrong about my being washed up.

There's no reason whatsoever to defend myself. Your main arguments in this thread are that country music is listened to entirely by white supremacists and that listening to old records is pathetic. I responded by saying that Jason Pierce primarily plays country music now, country music from old records; also, that there's lots of great country music made by black artists, and that listening to nothing but new records is ignorant, and fuck you, I'm old, and I can listen to whatever the fuck I want, because it's better than the shit you listen to.

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Post by Clownbait » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:28 am

sly saxon wrote:I've heard a bit of Sunn 0))), and would like to hear more. However, I already have Earth's record (Earth 2 Ultra low frequency edition, Sub Pop 1993). I think it's ok (my housemates thought I'd got a record of someone hoovering): do I need to bother getting Sunn 0)))?
No, Earth is all you need. If you want easy listening Earth pick up "Pentastar in the style of demons" or yes get "Earth 2" or "Extra-Capsular Extraction". While not for everyone, if you're in the mood for sludge, earth is the way to go. If you want some Sunn0))) I'd say pick up "Flight Of The Behemoth". The artwork alone is worth the price of admission.

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Re: Forwarded e-mail from old Spiritualized list

Post by Clownbait » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:29 am

SpacemanRob wrote:$26 - As always cheap digs which are getting cheaper.... Must hurt that it is becoming apparent you can't move on from BW & the Byrds.... Still you have your memories of what its like to discover something cool and where it lead you.... Maybe i am wrong and in fact you lead the Judas Priest fan club..... Shame as a washed up music journalist you have nothing to say of any interest..... At least Lester * Nick fucked up in style..... Move on man and open your eyes.... Sure i can bring you glasses and you can enjoy the new colours and the new dreams.... Shame....
I fucking hate people who .... constantly. Go back to your high school english class.
Last edited by Clownbait on Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Clownbait » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:33 am

twentysixdollars wrote:New records also cost a lot of money. And when they're shit it's money that could have been parlayed into some nice wine.
I've been on a decent wine kick lately. Cellar #8 is damn fine for $10 a pop (at trader joes that is.) Also, the new Trader Joes President Reserve is very very good for only $10. Some Kendall Jackson is always fine, and the ol Yellow Tail or Barefoot when I am down to affording no more than $5 a bottle. I need to start drinking zinfandel.

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Post by runcible » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:35 pm

Speaking of wine...

The new Turley offer landed on my doorstep the other day. Bollocks - always comes when I'm skint, and the idea of spending about 800 quid on 40 bottles of admittedly incredible wine is just not possible. I LOVE Zinfandel...

You taking your allocation spzretent?

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Post by spzretent » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:51 pm

you were offered 40 bottles? I was offered 24. I'm sure I can shift them all and keep a few for myself.

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:43 pm

I love you boys.

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