Brian Jonestown Massacre

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:39 pm

So, apart from seeing Dig a couple of times and owning Aufheben on vinyl, I'm slightly embarrassed to admit I haven't really heard much of the Brian Jonestown Massacre's back catalogue. I've been tempted to investigate more, especially after all the high praise they seem to get, especially in the "what are you listening to now" thread. My question, therefore, is if I am to delve into their back catalogue what are the 3 essential albums to start with?

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:14 pm

'Take it from the man!' is their finest lp & best collection

Try also maybe 'Spacegirl & other favourites' & 'and this is our music' for examples of their variety.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:34 pm

methodrone

Sorry for being terse.

I will pull up a similar thread from a year or so ago in a minute.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:38 pm

Found it: http://ideensynthese.de/spiritualized/v ... =1&t=11140

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:08 pm

I still stand by my post in Hof's thread:

http://ideensynthese.de/spiritualized/v ... 40#p104316

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:24 pm

Ads,
I know you like your vinyl. With BJM that can be a really expensive propostion.
My suggestion would be Tepid Peppermint Wonderland: A Retrospective. The CD should be cheap and its a double.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:21 pm

spzretent wrote:Ads,
I know you like your vinyl. With BJM that can be a really expensive propostion.

Totally agree on this too. Most of the BJM vinyls you will find are reissues too at $40+. I have a hard time with this. Sure, they look and probably sound nice, sure they are probably double LP's and 180gm but $40+ reissues are a pricey pill to swallow (imho).

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Methodrone is the only one I have a physical copy of - it is indeed pretty beautiful, wonderful hard cardboard? What's the word for the sturdy material that's used for nice gatefolds? Beautiful translucent blue (not transparent) heavvvy vinyl (feels more than 180, or maybe just everything else that is supposed to be 180 doesn't quite feel it!), great sound etc, but that's the only one I could spend the 40 bucks on, at least right now.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Have to say, I'm a bit of a skeptic and scrooge when it comes to this. I don't think it is higher than 180gm. If it is...then why? Also, $40+ (I've seen them higher than 40 even), in my humble opinion, is simply too much for a reissue.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:13 pm

All the mid-90's stuff is fine. Their Satanic Majesties' Second Request is a must have for Anenome alone!
(this thread prompted me to put on my Japanese CD copy of Bravery Repetition And Noise)

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:01 pm

the three essentials i'd say are-

'bravery, repitition and noise'- which would be good to start with- a reasonably priced vinyl copy would be easy to find (even the purple version). plus i think it'd be the best jumping off point (this one sold me on my complete fanaticism).
'methodrone'
'and this is our music'

the mid-90s stuff is all good as well. the above three are my favourites.

all of the bjm vinyl is manufactured in the UK so to those of us trying to get it in the states we're always having to pay a lot of money for it. since you're in the UK you can probably order all of it brand new through the cargo records website- i think they're all listed for around Â£20 each.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:36 pm

shalloboi wrote:all of the bjm vinyl is manufactured in the UK so to those of us trying to get it in the states we're always having to pay a lot of money for it.

So, that is news to me. I thought the reissues were coming from Rob and the Committee to Keep Music Evil, which are in LA.

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:38 pm

20 pounds is still $32+. This is a lot in my book.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:53 pm

spzretent wrote:20 pounds is still $32+. This is a lot in my book.

And I repeat....they are reissues!

Now, I saw a limited edition reissue (500 pressed) of a ridiculously rare/obscure 60's LP that was put out with the band's blessing, came in a gatefold thick card stock, 180gm double LP reissued direct from master tapes, 12 page booklet of rare art/photos + a bonus 7" of a couple unreleased cuts for $39. Now, an original LP would be nearing a $1000. This is as close as I can come to owning this album on vinyl. But, even this legit reissue with all the art, added 7", assembled with love and care made me stop and question if I wanted to fork out $40 for it. In the end, I bought it simply because I like the album a lot, it was a one off purchase and, as I said above, it's better than listening to my CD-R burned from my old cassette tape.

With every BJM album costing this much and more it quickly becomes REALLY expensive. Especially in our post-recession era (have we ever gotten out of it?) where yes, I DO still think twice before spending.

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:06 pm

spzretent wrote:20 pounds is still $32+. This is a lot in my book.

yeah, from an american perspective i agree. since so many people here are based in the UK and could order these albums on vinyl at a reasonable price for their own currency and not have to pay for overseas shipping on top of it, it's a pretty good deal. it's a bad deal for us in america because they're only available as imports. plus i found 'bravery...' for $22 in a record store. that's not a bad deal for a 180gm import- that's why i recommended that one. the others are extra expensive because they're double LPs as well as 180gm and colored vinyl.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:08 pm

redcloud wrote:Have to say, I'm a bit of a skeptic and scrooge when it comes to this. I don't think it is higher than 180gm. If it is...then why? Also, $40+ (I've seen them higher than 40 even), in my humble opinion, is simply too much for a reissue.

It's possible that it was 200gm. Heavy vinyl feels really nice, but it doesn't make for a better sounding record.

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:50 pm

I have a few 200 gram vinyl Lps that sound superb. But I cant imagine 20 extra grams making that much difference.
The best sounding record i own is Beck's- Sea Change Mobile Fidelity LP. That is 180 gram. I guess I am sitting here contradicting myself.
I should go back and watch either Tigers vs Yankees or NCAA Final Four game one and stop posting.

Minky · Post by **Minky** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:04 am

When pressed well 180g/200g vinyl sounds great but the frequent problem I've encountered with 180g pressings is the "non-fill" issue which drives me nuts. For example, the copy of the new Black Angels I picked up has it on 4 of the 7 tracks on side 1. I don't ever remember this being a problem with 150g vinyl in my lifetime of buying vinyl.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:42 am

Minky wrote:When pressed well 180g/200g vinyl sounds great but the frequent problem I've encountered with 180g pressings is the "non-fill" issue which drives me nuts. For example, the copy of the new Black Angels I picked up has it on 4 of the 7 tracks on side 1. I don't ever remember this being a problem with 150g vinyl in my lifetime of buying vinyl.

Good point. The quality of the pressing is more important than the record weight. But, I've also read shorter playing time allows for better sound. Saying that, I have some early 70's albums on very thin vinyl that near the 60 minute mark that sound absolutely fine.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:53 am

Obviously quality drops when you go past 22 minutes on a side because you are trying to cram too many rings onto one side so to compensate you have to lose some of the dynamic range is lose my understanding - I wonder though what the deal is when you have fewer rings it seems to me that if you are able to conversely gain any range, it wouldn't be anything that is actually audible, otherwise why would we have settled on 22 min? just speculation I have no real knowledge of this.

As for weight, I had no idea there was even such a thing as 200g pressings of records! I was just more struck by the overall package and was thinking that it sort of psychosomatically made me think it was heavier because everything was so nice - does anyone have a scale we could check this on??

Guess it makes sense they exist though. I for one can definitely never tell any difference in SQ based on weight, I totally concur that it is the pressing itself.

davedecay · Post by **davedecay** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:56 am

not to stray too far off-topic of BJM, but addressing heavy vinyl, etc.:

some say virgin vinyl is more important than weight/thickness of 180g/200g.
add to that proper mastering from quality (not compressed for CD) masters.

some bands have issued full albums as 2x45rpm for maximum sound quality.
Radiohead's King of Limbs, for example.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:52 am

Hmm I have a bunch of those actually, I always assumed it was just because the lengths were too long for one LP but too short for a full four sides, cool to know that there is something more to it than that!

THe LGM reissue I have is one of those - during a radio show for dublab I actually forgot about the speed (I was a little bit toasted at the time

) and I left the turntable on 33 when I started symphony space (i didn't figure it out because I didnt need to cue it in advance because it kicks off that side and I had checked levels before and wrote down where the gain should be for everything so I wouldn't have to worry about it in my toasted state).

But hey it was symphony space so I just let it be and it was totally fine, cause, ya know, SS. When I posted the setlist I just called it Symphony Space (Slow Version)

Maybe this is totally boring but I thought it was funny and maybe some of yall will chuckle. Sorry for getting this thread so far off topic with that first post about weight and this one mr shines.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:09 pm

Hofstadter wrote:Obviously quality drops when you go past 22 minutes on a side because you are trying to cram too many rings onto one side so to compensate you have to lose some of the dynamic range is lose my understanding - I wonder though what the deal is when you have fewer rings it seems to me that if you are able to conversely gain any range, it wouldn't be anything that is actually audible, otherwise why would we have settled on 22 min? just speculation I have no real knowledge of this.

I have no clue on the mathematical side of all this. But, In the 70's vinyl did go much thinner. They did this to cut costs in both production and to the customer. Going thinner allowed them to keep it a single LP but I think it also allowed them to squeeze more songs onto the play time. Keep in mind, by the late 60's/early 70's album play time had gone up dramatically from albums of previous years/decades. Subsequently, there are many 70's albums you will buy at used record stores that are really flimsy and thin but near the one hour mark. Yes, many sound like shit. But, I also have some that, quite honestly, sound fine. A 180gm album, as a product, is lovely. But, as Minky said above...the quality of pressing is key to sound.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:51 pm

Going back on topic.... I don't think the Â£20 price tag for a 180g double album is that steep in relation to other double albums over here in the UK, regardless of the fact it's a reissue. Bravery, Repetition and Noise comes in at Â£13-Â£14 over here which, again, is in line with the price of most single LPs. Also, aren't these reissues on Anton's own label so its not like some third party has come along and cashed in or anything. I may have to wait for this year's Record Store Day to come and go before I dip into the BJM back catalogue but, having taken on board the thoughts of the forum, I think I'll probably go for these 3 first:-

Methodrone
And This Is Our Music
Bravery, Repetition and Noise

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:58 pm

By the way, I'm not saying that Â£20 for a double vinyl album is an acceptable thing, just that its in line with the cost of other double albums in this country. Of course I'd rather not pay that amount but that's how much they cost. Bear in mind my other half had to pay over Â£60 to get me the last Neil a young album for Christmas.

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:24 pm

Shinesalight wrote:Also, aren't these reissues on Anton's own label so its not like some third party has come along and cashed in or anything.

yes, a records is anton's label. while $40 is a lot for me spend on one record i've bought every single one that's come out on his label- i know that the quality of the pressing is consistently great and that the money is going mostly to anton so he can continue putting the rest of the bjm stuff on vinyl. also, most of these records never came out on vinyl in the first place- as far as i know the only ones that are reissues are 'and this is our music' and 'take it from the man' (which was fetching bonkers prices on ebay- around $75-80).

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:43 pm

shalloboi wrote: also, most of these records never came out on vinyl in the first place- as far as i know the only ones that are reissues are 'and this is our music' and 'take it from the man' (which was fetching bonkers prices on ebay- around $75-80).

A few were released on LP. 'Spacegirl' for example was on Candy Floss Records (?). But also TeePee Records, TVT etc. released on LP. Their discography is somewhat murky and confusing because there have been several releases issued from various labels. Bomp, Tangible, TVT, TeePee, CKME, 'A' etc.

So, are the CKME reissues totally different than "A Records"?

Regarding the original 'ATIOM'...I think it went for silly money because the cd pressing cut out the answering machine at the start and end of the album.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:40 pm

redcloud wrote:So, are the CKME reissues totally different than "A Records"?

Looking on Discogs I think the only vinyl reissue that Committee to Keep Muisc Evil have done is "Their Satanic Majesties..."

There's no info about CKME on Discogs so I did a Google search and it seems there's a bit of a crossover with CKME and A Records.

Is it just a simple case that CKME did the reissues in the States and A Records did them in the UK?

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:58 pm

Shinesalight wrote: Looking on Discogs I think the only vinyl reissue that Committee to Keep Muisc Evil have done is "Their Satanic Majesties..."

This is the best discography of the band I know. I think it was set up by a super fan and has blessing of Anton:

http://www.bjmarchives.com/disco/disco.htm

Isit just a simple case that CKME did the reissues in the States and A Records did them in the UK?

No idea. I am pretty sure Rob Campanella is behind CKME tho.

KingHarry · Post by **KingHarry** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:19 pm

There's lots of stuff outside of the actual physical releases to hoover-up too.

There are the semi official releases (Peel Sessions, Diane Perry, Pol Pot, etc) but I've never known an artist just continue to trundle stuff out and put it up for public consumption through his youtube and DeadTV channels.

I have a weekly visit to the AntonFjordson site to pick up the new tracks he has posted - works in progress as he terms it all.
Very satisfying much if it is too.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:11 pm

KingHarry wrote:There's lots of stuff outside of the actual physical releases to hoover-up too.

There are the semi official releases (Peel Sessions, Diane Perry, Pol Pot, etc)

Burger Records and Joel reissued Pol Pot's on cassette last year. Limited edition tapes (only 1000?). I have one. It's a very good collection of pre-Methodrone/early BJM stuff. I believe the link I listed above has a download link to the Diane Perry Tapes. At least some of the songs are available.

Shines, as you are coming to this band relatively new there are some really superb releases that I think will rock your world. '92-2003/4 being my favorite period. But, I know there are many who really like the direction that Anton has taken with albums from 'My Bloody Underground' (2008) onwards.

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Shinesalight wrote:
redcloud wrote:So, are the CKME reissues totally different than "A Records"?
Looking on Discogs I think the only vinyl reissue that Committee to Keep Muisc Evil have done is "Their Satanic Majesties..."

There's no info about CKME on Discogs so I did a Google search and it seems there's a bit of a crossover with CKME and A Records. Is it just a simple case that CKME did the reissues in the States and A Records did them in the UK?

kind of. my interpretation is that anton had a hand in CKME while he was living in the states and now that he's living in berlin everything he's released has been on his own under a records and he just hasn't bothered to get the a releases distributed stateside. i also know that there's an a version of 'their satanic majesties...' and a CKME version. plus there are other releases that CKME has released since- i know they did that 'these flowers...' vinyl release for asteroid #4 and a telescopes compilation.

any bjm reissues are going to be identical, though, as i read in an interview that anton doesn't have the original master tapes for the earliest bjm stuff- he said he destroyed them all at the time. i assume this means he has the master copies of the final mixes, just not the original multitrack tapes.

totally forgot that 'spacegirl' was originally a vinyl-only release and all of the EPs were vinyl releases as well.

redcloud wrote:
Regarding the original 'ATIOM'...I think it went for silly money because the cd pressing cut out the answering machine at the start and end of the album.

the answering machine messages were on the copy of the cd that i bought in 2003.

the pol pot's tape is out of print last i heard. i have the mp3 files on a backup drive if anyone wants it, though- just send me a pm.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:55 pm

Burger did a Pol Pot tape!?!? Will have to find that. Hopefully shouldn't be too hard since they are local for me. Missed Burgerama a few weeks ago, was bummed, heard it was a little bit of a bust because you weren't allowed to leave the observatory or something once you were inside until it was finished, I'm sure it would have been fun though.

Out of curiosity, is there any BJM news to be aware of right now? Story behind the rsd release? Etc. It'd be nice to get to see em play again soon.

Also, shines, since nobody has mentioned it so far, check out dig! (film). Well actually, maybe wait until you have sorta figured out how you feel about everything musically before seeing it and letting it color your feelings one way or another.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:28 am

Hofstadter wrote:Burger did a Pol Pot tape!?!? Will have to find that.

Yep. I believe it was ltd. ed. 1000 (maybe 500) and all were numbered w/cover art by Joel. They sold out pretty quickly.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:36 am

Dig! One of the many reasons I cant stand Anton the person.
I was even accused of throwing a beer bottle at him one night in Detroit. I was confronted and surrounded by the band.
I wish it were me. It was a great shot. Him him squarely in the head. This was after a racist rant on Detroit and him ripping Iggy & The Stooges all while playing with a swastika on his guitar. I know it is the Indian symbol for power but it was clearly there to provoke.
Not sure what he expected after that.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:11 am

spzretent wrote:I was even accused of throwing a beer bottle at him one night in Detroit. I was confronted and surrounded by the band. I wish it were me. It was a great shot. Him him squarely in the head. This was after a racist rant on Detroit and him ripping Iggy & The Stooges all while playing with a swastika on his guitar. I know it is the Indian symbol for power but it was clearly there to provoke. Not sure what he expected after that.

That's pretty appalling. I attended a gig where homophobic slurs and the "n" word were liberally used. Nobody in the band did anything during the rant/tirade. It was disgusting. Musically they have created some tremendous music but behavior like that is totally unacceptable.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:25 am

To be honest it ruins the music for me too. There are so many other alternatives. Another reason I would not spend a dime on their vinyl.
Lets face it. Anton is, or at least was, a Class A fucking asshole. Racist, unbalanced, obnoxious and crazy.
This has nothing to do with my "confontation" with him. The band at that point were a bunch of pussies making excuses for him too. One said "I am Jewish and I wouldn't play in a band with him if I thought he were a racist" to which I replied really? Even when he spouts from the stage "Detroit is just filled with nword, sp#*ks and Jews" to which this band member shut up and walked away.
Someone else went after him for his barrage of Stooges insults. He wishes he has 1/10 the guts and balls The Stooges have.
There. I feel better.

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:14 am

spzretent wrote:To be honest it ruins the music for me too. There are so many other alternatives. Another reason I would not spend a dime on their vinyl.
Lets face it. Anton is, or at least was, a Class A fucking asshole. Racist, unbalanced, obnoxious and crazy.
This has nothing to do with my "confontation" with him. The band at that point were a bunch of pussies making excuses for him too. One said "I am Jewish and I wouldn't play in a band with him if I thought he were a racist" to which I replied really? Even when he spouts from the stage "Detroit is just filled with nword, sp#*ks and Jews" to which this band member shut up and walked away.
Someone else went after him for his barrage of Stooges insults. He wishes he has 1/10 the guts and balls The Stooges have.
There. I feel better.

i could see how that would ruin the music for you- that's really fucked up. i actually think he might not be racist, just willing to stoop to that level in order provoke people- which i actually think is worse in a way. that's a truly disturbing story.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:56 am

Dig! didn't help matters. It put on film just how crazy he is. Minus the racist stuff. I'm glad Redcloud mentioned that because that isn't something I would want to go around accusing someone of. It validates what I heard with my own ears but was reluctant to really mention because lets face it thats pretty heavy and stupid in this day and age. The other stuff is well documented. And I think calculated. And it backfired in my case.
I think BJM were/are a band who maybe could have been signed to a decent label and sold quite a few records. I am sure Anton's personality messed that up. And scared others off.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:26 am

Yeah because I've been aware of the fact that he is a big ole asshole, I've always just tried to stay away from information about him so as not to spoil the music - for instance I had no idea about the racism. I have heard that he has also had a lot of alcohol problems, but that he's mellowed out a bit. Maybe that perhaps contributes to all this shit, but maybe it's just an excuse some people come up with? If true, that's a bummer/hard thing for anybody to deal with, still doesn't excuse actions though. Wonder if maybe things are going a little smoother for him now. There was none of the sort of these purposefully provoking, horrible comments when I saw 'em. They just played straight-ahead.

Always an interesting sort of philosophical/aesthetic question of where the line is drawn between art and the artist. But that's a topic for another thread.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:39 am

Most people I know dont have the hard time I do separating the personalities from the music. I find it nearly impossible.
To be fair, the list of bands who's music I wont listen to is really pretty small.
The way I look at it I would rather play something by an artist or band I either know very little about or ones I totally respect.
Like I mentioned before, there are so many alternatives. Especially with the endless recommendations from this message board.
It's not like I ever get bored.

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:20 am

spzretent wrote: Like I mentioned before, there are so many alternatives. Especially with the endless recommendations from this message board.
It's not like I ever get bored.

Let me take the moment to say - musically, this has been the most important year of my life, largely thanks to this board. Thank you all. /endmelodrama

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:22 am

Thankfully, these days he isn't like that. At least not the past few shows/years that I have seen them. I praised the band just last year for putting on probably one of the best shows I have seen them play. They seem much more professional and sounded like a well-oiled rock and roll machine. Drink and drugs were obviously a huge factor back then and from what I can see the drink is nowhere near what it once was. No obvious bottles of vodka next to the stage etc.

Still, no excusing behavior like that on drink/drugs alone. It is a shame too that nobody in the band stood up to it. Maybe they did behind the scenes but on stage, in full public view, they just stood/sat there and allowed the shit storm to happen. Sad.

heisenberg · Post by **heisenberg** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:30 am

The thing with Anton is, he's still trying way too hard at nearly 50 to be the Anglophile hipster he was 20 years ago. It's highly cringeworthy and totally redundant. The absolute vanity of the man reaches its peak once you check out his twitter- desperate to be everyone's friend, thinks he knows everything about everything and actually quite the muso bore and Barley-esque drone without the intoxicants in his life.

Twitter will demystify any human being. All it does for Anton is highlight how boring and empty he can be unless he's bitching, fighting, being racist etc... I believe the guy can't truly be racist due to his passion for music and art. If anything, I think his behaviour is purely for attention and to sell gig tickets in the early days.

His weighing in on Thatcher's death on twitter may be admirable. But you get the impression it's more that he desperately wants to be a part of something he isn't (Britain) and again look knowledgable when really, how aware is he? As a kid who grew up in 1980's Scotland I had no choice but to understand why so many adults were angry by Conservative, I can't help but feel with Anton "what the hell do you really know?" .

Everyone has their story and noone is perfect. But from what I've seen in dig he was a spoilt brat kid, sponged off a lot of people to make his records, hurt those who didn't deserve it and has always looked for attention in the poorest and most unpleasant ways. I think the band is great, love much of their music and can continue to enjoy it, purely because I don't take the man seriously at all, and that's a shame cos I'd like to respect him more but that's the choice he made. His ridiculous behaviour means he will never be held in the same regard as any of his numerous heroes/inspirations that he pastiches.

purespace · Post by **purespace** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:21 pm

We chatted with Anton, Matt and Joel at Psych Fest last year. Anton was hanging out and mixing with everyone that Saturday afternoon in the outdoor courtyard and seemed in great spirits. He and Joel both signed my partner's t-shirt (along with 15 other bands like Wooden Shjips, Moon Duo, Asteroid #4, Black Angels, Thee Oh Sees, Entrance Band et. al. as we thought about auctioning it for charity at some point). I didn't get that he-may-get-volatile feeling like times I've talked with him in the past. Sadly, Anton's history of behavior does speak for itself, but the band was a fucking awesome festival closer playing well over 2 1/2 hours and so right on.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:25 pm

I know a few people who've known Anton for donkeys years. Although he is much calmer now as a result of quitting the booze I have been told that the person in Dig! is absolutely totally and utterly Anton at that time. I believe it's like they've taken massive care to portray the guy as he really was during that period.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:40 pm

I honestly believe a lot of that persona was calculated. I've seen some amazing shows in the Detroit area by BJM that were incident free. But as Anton drank more he became quite the asshole onstage. Maybe he though he was a crazy tough guy but when you start saying the things he did onstage someone will always take you on. And people came to the shows to watch meltdowns. Is that what he really thought was going to propel them as a band?
What shocked me about the Detroit incident I was part of was that I was the one taking them on about the racist shit he said and that dumb ass swastika on his guitar. Everyone else was pissed off about his ripping on the Stooges. Which maybe says more about Detroit. I dunno.
I am not a Twitter person but it sounds like he would not be anyone I would follow. It sounds like a twitter case of chronic verbal diahrrea.

Aquarian-Time · Post by **Aquarian-Time** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:49 pm

Gotta agree, he knew what he was doing, they were also selling jack shit records before dig and when i last saw them they sold out the ritz in Manchester. He is a loose cannon thats for sure and believes he is some kind of messiah but he also had a plan and the plan (eventually) worked. The recent stuff they have realised is bollocks though and as Matt rightly says that 5 album run late 90's early 2000's was genius.
I have seen them 5 times (well 6 but that was before I knew anything about them and paid little attention) The first time(not long after Dig) was mesmerising and the band and Anton were in great form. The next 3 were so/so and all had completly pointless Anton rants, the 3rd of which was embarrasing (for the audience and and his band) as I couldnt see who or what was pissing him off, he just got pissed off and went off on one. The Ritz gig last year wwas spellbinding good though.
Not sure i'm making much point, so lets just say these words above are my observations.

oh and Mattben, you boys tore the roof off the soup Kitchen on Friday (even the missus was impressed, no mean feat).

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:57 am

Some good points in here and I agree with pretty much all. Musically the LP's from 'Methodrone to 'ATIOM' are superb. But Aquarian-Time, I don't actually think they did have a plan. I think everybody loves an underdog and the way they were portrayed in 'Dig' was the creative but totally unhinged band while the Dandy's were portrayed as the band who knew how to play the game but ultimately were not as creative as BJM. This is what propelled them from 100 people at their gigs to 2,000+. But, I also think MANY came to see on-stage antics they saw in the film. I saw many gigs after 'Dig' where some in the audience were equally as bad as Anton and seemed to go simply to irritate him and sadly, he played along.

In terms of twitter dribble....I too don't do twitter but I'm not surprised. His old myspace account was similar too. Constant posts that whenever you went into the page it would freeze your computer!

Their forum too can also easily descend into senseless name calling and I've even seen posts where the band members insult their own fans. I simply don't get it. I sometimes lurk over there because there are some knowledgeable people but in terms of music boards this place wins the prize.

KingHarry · Post by **KingHarry** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:17 pm

Aquarian-Time wrote:The recent stuff they have realised is bollocks though and as Matt rightly says that 5 album run late 90's early 2000's was genius.

I just don't agree with that - Sgt Pepper is patchy, and some of it is very bad. My Bloody Underground has some great stuff on it, but again patchy and suffers from horrific production. Some of the EPs (Smoking Acid) are worse than patchy.
But the last LP and the mass of demos that preceeded it that didn't even make the cut is really great imo and I get a lot out of the stuff he continues to lash out on a daily basis via ytube.

burningwheel · Post by **burningwheel** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:16 pm

MattBenn wrote:His Twitter persona at the moment is off the fucking rail. I've never known anyone chat so much bullshit in all my life.

haha. tis true. he ripped on my primal scream forum as looking "dated" or something like that? wtf? why does he care?. crazy

hurricane number 1 · Post by **hurricane number 1** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:32 am

Anton does pretty well for a mentally ill dude...he's mellowed out alot...no kicking anymore. Give him a break. plus he just had a kid.

When he had a facebook I thought it was crazy how much he seemed to be posting on that and twitter etc until i realized he was also putting out shit tons and shit tons of songs at the same time...it didn't hamper his creativity...he made aufheben durring that time and thats a piece of super genius. the shows this last tour were joyous and beautiful.

he still seems the realest to me. working hard.

just found out about spiritualized...going to see them tonight in vegas. good times.

Post by **spzretent** » Fri May 17, 2013 2:45 am

Wow. Anton had a kid?
I am going to eat some crow here. As much as I say I cant separate personalities from the music I am listening to And This Is Our music for the third time since saturday on glorious multi colored splattered vinyl.
This record really is something of a masterpiece.
There I said it.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Fri May 17, 2013 5:51 am

spzretent wrote: I am going to eat some crow here. As much as I say I cant separate personalities from the music I am listening to And This Is Our music for the third time since saturday on glorious multi colored splattered vinyl.
This record really is something of a masterpiece.
There I said it.

It's certainly my favorite BJM album. Strangely, a lot of Jonestown fans do not rate it!? Weird. I think it is an incredibly deep and emotional piece of work from start to finish. 'Prozac vs Heroin' is worth the cost of admission alone (additionally, the guitar solo in it is enough to make a grown man cry). 'Tschuss' is also heart-wrenchingly beautiful. Even details such as the "Odd Couple" music adds to its pain.

Lovely record.

shalloboi · Post by **shalloboi** » Fri May 17, 2013 8:51 pm

redcloud wrote:
spzretent wrote: I am going to eat some crow here. As much as I say I cant separate personalities from the music I am listening to And This Is Our music for the third time since saturday on glorious multi colored splattered vinyl.
This record really is something of a masterpiece.
There I said it.
It's certainly my favorite BJM album. Strangely, a lot of Jonestown fans do not rate it!? Weird. I think it is an incredibly deep and emotional piece of work from start to finish. 'Prozac vs Heroin' is worth the cost of admission alone (additionally, the guitar solo in it is enough to make a grown man cry). 'Tschuss' is also heart-wrenchingly beautiful. Even details such as the "Odd Couple" music adds to its pain.

Lovely record.

a lot of people overlook it, don't they? it was the first one i bought and it took me a really long time to warm up to it- i think i got into it one track at a time. it's so dense and lush it's very overwhelming at first. a lot of people also rate it lower because there aren't more songs on it like 'when jokers attack'- i think most bjm fans were expecting more of that classic bjm sound of the 90s.

it's become one of my favourites of theirs over the years. it's one of those rare albums that i grow to love more and more each time i hear it.