sonic boom takes a backseat to spiritualized?

shifting_images · Post by **shifting_images** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:55 am

Do you think in any way, shape, or form that sonic boom(spectrum) is jealous of J. Spaceman and the success of spiritualized. Cause in any recent interview i read with him he's saying he'd love to collaberate with j. again, but j. has gone on to bigger and better things after the breakup of spacemen 3. In a way I kind of feel bad for sonic (for some reason.) What do you think (if you even give a shit) by the way at the moment I'm bored and i'm just writing what i've always have been wondering.

herman · Post by **herman** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:39 am

That's hard to say. I think Sonic and Jason are operating on different levels. Where Sonics music takes a high flying experimental caracter, Jasons music (especially the last 2 cd's) is more 'commercial'. I really dig both of them musically but I figure that they don't share the same musical horizon anymore

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:52 pm

I think if Sonic is really jealous there is no way he would be caught dead at a Spiritualized show. Which he was. Recently. He has never slagged off Jason. He has always said he would absolutely work again with Jason if the opportunity presented it self.
I do think they operate on two completely different levels. Sonic continues to push the envelope and experiment. Jason is, in a way, reeling the envelope in. He has tasted success both critically and I would have to assume financially. He apparently likes it. A lot!

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:51 pm

wouldn't you???

after years of barely keeping his head above water, he finally gets to taste commercial success. as long as jase can continue to offer music that he feels is truly honest and soulful while making a living at it with the admiration of more than a 'cult' following, all the power.

if sonic wants to continue to 'push the envelope' it makes it difficult to be accepted by a wide enough audience that he can survive as an artist. don't get me wrong, i have never been a big fan of sonics work, but i do respect him for the road he has chosen to take with music. all the power.

i don't think it's fair to compare the two, but you must assume that sonic is a touch jealous of the success that jase has recieved. i would think it's only natural. as far as working together, i don't see it unless it was a remix or a one off.

xxshonnxxx

anorthernsoul · Post by **anorthernsoul** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:03 pm

i've only heard bits of sonic's work, i can't believe that the concensus suggests it's more experimental than jason's stuff though ... i'm still surprised that jason successfully exposed so many people to things like no god only religion, the individual. i can't believe that the guy who played ten minute suicide-esque, droning jams, wrote and composed ladies and gentlemen, broken heart, anything more etc etc ...

sonic's stuff seems to be drone, phase orientated light, gliding, spacemen styled mood pieces - nothing as progressive or structured as feel so sad, nothing as subtle as feel like going home, nothing arranged like the instrumental i didn't mean to hurt you ... i don't know, i don't mean this as a dig at him, but i think that the exposure of spiritualized hasn't reduced - or, if people want to argue, has only recently reduced - the experimentation. jason's much farther afield from where he started, in comparison to sonic.

recommended listening to showcase sonic's other talents encouraged ...

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:50 pm

To each his own.
If success breeds the last two Spiritualized releases than yes I do mind. Jason may not have been struggling so much were it not for the overblown orchestration of LICD. Nor for the incredible amount of studio time paid for for a couple of those releases. The packaging didn't help either but as a fan/consumer that I like.
I am not a fan of Sonic's E.A.R. stuff but his self titled release and both Spectrum releases are pretty fucking good. Weird that they are so easily dismissed.
Spacemen 3 were ok too.

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:36 pm

i guess the next release will tell us much about whether jason has some fresh creative form, but I think a collaberation between the two would be something. Accademic really because Jason has never given any indicaiton he would be prepared to work with sonic again, which I feel is a shame.

I was a Spritiualized fan first, then found spacemen 3, and from that perspective it is very easy to fall into the trap of thinking it was all Jason, and Sonic was a poor second. I moved on from that imature viewpoint a long time ago; and on their best collaborative release perfect prescription, they produced something more than the sum of their parts.

Sonic was unlucky with his record deal wasn't he. Runcible mentoned stuff about this in the past. A lot of these things are down to cirmustance I guess. Sonic has definately followed a less mainsteam course, so I guess its to be expected he hasn't achieved the same level of commerical succes.

anorthernsoul · Post by **anorthernsoul** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:34 pm

Sonic has definately followed a less mainsteam course

i'm still not sure i agree with that at all - he hasn't been accepted by the mainstream, but i don't think that's necessarily because he's deliberately more avant garde; although jason's albums sold, the stuff he's done's been just as far out as sonics, or more so. like i said before, he's been a million miles away from the guitars he started on, too, which i'm not sure one could say about sonic.

corrections welcome because i'm a little out of my depth, but it seems that people are equating success with dumbing down and making music accessible, which is something that spiritualized weren't - be it twelve thirteen minute singles or whatever.

Post by **spzretent** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:49 pm

anorthernsoul wrote:
corrections welcome because i'm a little out of my depth, but it seems that people are equating success with dumbing down and making music accessible, which is something that spiritualized weren't - be it twelve thirteen minute singles or whatever.

Thats where I think the disagreement is. Many of us think Jason has been dumbing down his later releases especially the last one. He never used to follow trends and it seems he got caught up in the whole White Stripes way of recording. I was excited prior to hearing AG but the problem is he keeps re-writing the same tracks over and over.

I was a Spacemen 3 fan first so it was very easy for me to follow the split both ways. There is no question in my mind that LGM is by far the best post Spacemen release. It stills seems fresh today. But I am telling you, the Sonic Boom S/T release as well as the two Spectrum releases(proper ones) are really good. Not that easy to find at the moment but worth the search.

If you enjoyed Perfect Prescription, Playing W/Fire or Recurring Sonic was responsible for half of those. And to say he is not as "avant garde" or "experimental" than Jason is ludicrous. And I an not equating those to his lack of success. His collaborations w/Delia Derbyshire, Silver Apples, Fuxa et al bear that out.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:51 pm

lets just make a few observations about the last post.

a.) not all of sonics collaborations have produced gold, the one i was most excited about sounds terrible. stereolab.

b.) many of us LIKE the last spiritualized album.

c.) according to jason, now you can take my word since i spoke with him in depth about it, but spring heel jack had the biggest impact on the way the album was recorded, not the white stripes.

it appears that you are just as bad as the media, taking comments out of context. i believe jason is quoted as saying that there is aspects of the white stripes that he likes, as in strapping on a guitar and playing rock n' roll. i don't think jason wanted to record on all analog equipment, in tiny vintage studio in attempt to replicate the sound of the past.

xxxshonnxxx

p/s retent, this isn't a jab, more of a balanced view.

Post by **spzretent** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:24 pm

a beautiful noise wrote:lets just make a few observations about the last post.

a.) not all of sonics collaborations have produced gold, the one i was most excited about sounds terrible. stereolab.

b.) many of us LIKE the last spiritualized album.

c.) according to jason, now you can take my word since i spoke with him in depth about it, but spring heel jack had the biggest impact on the way the album was recorded, not the white stripes.

it appears that you are just as bad as the media, taking comments out of context. i believe jason is quoted as saying that there is aspects of the white stripes that he likes, as in strapping on a guitar and playing rock n' roll. i don't think jason wanted to record on all analog equipment, in tiny vintage studio in attempt to replicate the sound of the past.

xxxshonnxxx

p/s retent, this isn't a jab, more of a balanced view.

Good morning Shonn. Good thing we can wake up on a sunday morning and duke it out

I never said any of Sonic's collaborations turned to gold. Hell, I hate the EAR stuff. I will go out on a limb and says its more groundbreaking than AG. Dont even get me started on Stereolab. They haven't been relevant since Lo Fi IN MY OPINION!

I purposely worded the "many of us" for a reason. There are just as many on the message board that dislike the last two Spriritualized records as those who do. Kind of like red states and blue states.

I am just paraphrasing what Jason has said in interviews leading up to the release of AG. I really think Jason thinks he is more avant garde than he really is. And I think that bit you quoted is exactly what he was going for. Go in and bang out a record naturally. Not shitloads of overdubbing and tweaking. And I think the analog thing also played a big part.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:32 pm

haha! your quite correct, it is still mornin' here.

i still feel that what jason was going for on AG he captured. to me at least the album feels alive. you can feel the 'electricity' in some of the moments.

have to agree with northern boy, jason is still avant garde. but thats just it, he can go from a track like 'rated x' into 'lay it down slow' the ability to 'play' outside of the box then bring you right back home to those warm and fuzzy tones we ALL love and adore.

thats just my take on it though.

xxxshonnxxx

anorthernsoul · Post by **anorthernsoul** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:29 pm

lots of interesting comments, folks.

i didn't really mean to start an argument about who was further-out, who was more avant garde, because it doesn't mean a lot to me - however bizarre sonic's collaborations stuff might be, from what i've heard it just isn't as good as jason's stuff - be it album tracks from the last ten years or the last record, or be it collaborations like steve martland at flux, the 22-20's mix, whatever. if jason was playing dilute stooges rip offs int he style of the little leather jacket bands around today, and it was better than sonic's stuff, then that's what i'd be listening to. so, when it comes to E.A.R versus amazing grace or let it come down, i'll take spiritualized just cos it's better. good-er. i think a lot of jason's good work, a lot of successful experimentation, is being discounted because it was so successful - a collaboration with a hundred piece orchestra, to me, means as much as a collaboration with delia derbyshire. the instrumentals on complete works two knock me out. i'm not going back further than the last two albums because it seems that those two are contestable. and because anyone who doesn't adore ladies and gentlemen baffles me.

i think the white stripes comment's a little harsh. the last lp to me's an experiment in recording, it doesn't totally come off - and neither did let it come down - and jason's said, he doesn't really agree with the authenticity vibe of younger bands, that the jacket has to be vintage and the guitar has to smell of jack daniels. they were doing something different and spontaneous, which was kind of inevitable given that they've been spending years at a time on lps. they're recording at the mo, though, so let's see what happens.

props to beautiful noise for the shj reference; they're sound's more prominent than that of a fuzzy guitar on amazing grace, the horns from amassed or lit are a pretty big influence i guess, and the freedom in recording, responding and all that.

noOne · Post by **noOne** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:51 pm

i like every Spiritualized album i ever heard. though it's not my favorite, lyrically Let It Come Down is the greatest album they ever wrote. and i'm actually a big fan of the classical arrangements he uses a lot more nowadays. i don't see it as dumbing the music down i think it makes it better. i see it as him maturing as a song writer.

pretty much everything i ever heard from Sonic, i liked. yes, including the E.A.R. stuff (am i the only one who get's into drone pieces on this board?).

as for Pete being jealous of Jason. well, only he could answer that question right? but i would assume that he's very proud of Jason for the commercial success he has achieved.

i would love to see those two work together again. they wrote some brilliant fucking music together (yes, i love Spacemen 3).

SpacemanRob · Post by **SpacemanRob** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:12 pm

Hey noOne i totally agree that people seem to ignore Sonics/Ear output.... I have listed before that much of EAR's records i have really enjoyed and the search for a pure drone is never boring.... Live At The Dream Palace/Mesmerised/Data Rape/Kone Experiment/Vibrations are all records i go back to..... If i use some of the debate from this thread each is acutely different, each is exploring and each provokes different drone dreams....
Sometimes it seems wrong after the demise of SP3 that Jason is seen as the only (s)onic explorer.... Sure i wouldn't be here if i didn't love much of Spz but Sonic's career has equally teased us and i suspect many have not listened further than the odd minute of EAR and have become scared accordingly.....
Sometimes the more accessable doesn't mean its the best....

Rock on.....

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:32 pm

SpacemanRob wrote: i suspect many have not listened further than the odd minute of EAR and have become scared accordingly.....

Scared, bored, whatever.

Post by **spzretent** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:05 pm

that has to be your shortest post ever.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:54 am

yet funniest!

xxxshonnxxx

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:38 am

just a quick tuppence worth...

I think the only time Jason and Sonic's work could be compared as such was probably on their first couple of solo efforts after the SP3 split. Thats when they were probably still on a similar level musically. I think both have chosen their preferred path in the music world and have set out on that path accordingly... to compare the last two Spiritualized albums to Sonic's EAR work (whether you are a fan or not) is rather silly because they are totally different styles of music...
I think in what they have set out to achive individually, both guys are probably happy with their output. Both seem to strive to produce sounds and textures and hooks, but in totally different ways.

Maybe they DO still have more in common that either would admit (Jason anyway...), but i would find it hard believe Sonic is sitting in his bedroom cursing Jason, his work or his success.

Post by **runcible** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:04 am

One of the most interesting threads for a while - stimulating stuff without anyone getting cross!

Several key points - the last one from Laz69 - the similarities between Jason and Pete were very indeed noticeable in their first solo efforts and have gradually drifted further apart ever since. The first few Spectrum shows I saw were very rock band in structure - Pete has been into that a lot less in the last few years - and had more in common with the Spacemen/Spiritualized.

As for him being jealous in any way... That's never been an impression I have got - he is happy that Jason's talent has had recognition. The thing that always suprised me is that if Pete felt like it he could make a lot of commercially orientated music that would earn him a decent load of money. But the guy has no interest in what others want or expect of him - his path has been a very personal and individual one. He simply doesn't care if people think he's too way out or self-indulgent - that is the music he wants to make so he does it. In terms of -way out-ness' I don't think Jason has ever gone as far as re-wiring Speak and Spell machines! That must rate as pretty out there.

Silvertone treated Pete pretty shittily by the end (which is what someone referred to earlier). How many labels will release an album (Highs, Lows) by one of their artists then delete it just as the supporting tour kicks off? That's what happened at the end of the deal - disgraceful behaviour.

I still yearn for the full wall of guitar the Spacemen were so magnificent at producing. It frustrates me no end that Pete doesn't put together a straight 2 guitar, bass and drum band and get out on the road. I know he could do a much better job at making a serious racket than just about anyone and I've told him just that many times. I wish he'd just do it, but maybe that's what he thinks everyone would expect so he doesn't.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:29 pm

Laz69 wrote:just a quick tuppence worth...

I think the only time Jason and Sonic's work could be compared as such was probably on their first couple of solo efforts after the SP3 split. Thats when they were probably still on a similar level musically. I think both have chosen their preferred path in the music world and have set out on that path accordingly... to compare the last two Spiritualized albums to Sonic's EAR work (whether you are a fan or not) is rather silly because they are totally different styles of music...
.

I dont think anyone was comparing the two musically. It was about who each of us felt was "pushing the envelope" more. Which was more groundbreaking, whether you like the results or not.

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:33 pm

I dont think anyone was comparing the two musically. It was about who each of us felt was "pushing the envelope" more. Which was more groundbreaking, whether you like the results or not.

Sorry if i picked this up wrong.. i thought the music was being considered too. Hope i haven't confused matters too much...

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:15 pm

Sonic Boom is more avante garde out of both of them, especially w/ the E.A.R. projects that he has done. Mentioned before by Sprezent that the Spectrum albums are worth getting (if you haven't done so already). I think this is where Jason gets his 'inspiration' for unusual packaging from Sonic Boom i.e. - self titled l.p. in a colorful, spinning kaleidescope and limited release of 'soul kiss' in a soapy/watery cd packaging. The self-titled album is brilliant w/ hints of desperation, loneliness, reconfirmation w/ God - ' heard i said. i thought but Lord you know i tried. but where was the guardian angel on the day my best friend died. '

Sprezent mentioned both Spectrum albums, but in fact there are three of which I personally don't think that 'forever alien' should have been considered Spectrum, but rather an E.A.R. project. I have all of the E.A.R. stuff and no I don't like all of them, but neverless appreciate the direction that he is going w/ both bands, each seperate and disctinctive musical paths. Try smoking pot w/ E.A.R. 'vibrations' on w/ candles lit and you'll know what i'm talking about.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:33 pm

One of the funnier moments I encountered w/Sonic was when he did the Speak & Spell tour. I cant remember if it was under the EAR moniker or Sonic Boom. It was in the Shelter in Detroit. There were about 20 people when he started. There were about 8 when he was done. He knew what he was up against and he did it anyway. I stayed because I like Sonic. I appreciate what he was trying to as well. As for the sounds? I'd have left too if i didn't want to hang out with him after he was done.

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:25 pm

lol. one other thing to consider is that all of the singles from let it come down were playlisted on radio 2. They don't exactly having a challenging playlist, albeit it being the station I listen to most often. Its pretty certain that even if sonic had had as much commercial success as spiritulaized nothing from his back catalog would get the same playlisting. I'm not suggesting spiritualized doesn't have its challenging / avante guard moments, but much of its discography is easy to listen to. And thats not a criticsm

Post by **runcible** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:47 pm

I saw some funny reactions when EAR supported Pavement many years ago. This was a full EAR band too - Kevin Martin, Eddie Prevost, Scott Reilly, etc. I stood at the front and thought it was amazing what they were doing - a real shimmering wall of vibrating noise, but with real direction to it. Everyone around me was going 'what the FUCK is this?' before a few people started to recognise Pete. Most shook their heads and retired to the bar after that.

I've seen a few EAR slots, most would be described as 'difficult' but that first one was truly inspired as it featured a really panaramic sound effect, and Scott's guitar was astonishing. To play ambient noise of that heaviness which actually did something was an achievement. First time I saw Flying Saucer Attack they did a similar thing (with a similar reaction from the Stereolab audience standing bored through the support act).

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:02 pm

In my simple view, I always viewed jason as better with the instruments and sonic as the ideaman. In the book jason's playing gets praised a lot whereas it seemed to me that sonic learned what he needed to and that's about it - neither is wrong or right. a very nice match i think, and probably partly why they made such good music together...nowadays i think jason could use some of sonic's mad creations, and sonic could use some of jason's guitar.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:45 pm

[quote="runcible"]I saw some funny reactions when EAR supported Pavement many years ago. This was a full EAR band too - Kevin Martin, Eddie Prevost, Scott Reilly, etc. I stood at the front and thought it was amazing what they were doing - a real shimmering wall of vibrating noise, but with real direction to it. Everyone around me was going 'what the FUCK is this?' quote]

Thats exactly what my reaction to Pavement was the first time I saw them.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:25 am

Wow, an E.A.R. show w/ Kevin Martin, Eddie Provost, Scott Reilly ! The only musicians missing may include Kevin Shields, Thomas Koner and the late Delia Derbyshire ! Those first three musicians played and recorded on various E.A.R. albums, but I never knew that they toured w/ Sonic Boom, especially opening for Pavement (quite unusual).

The E.A.R. 'Speak n' Spell' tour only had a couple of people (also maybe about 20) and it was only Sonic with his back turned most of the time tweaking the machines, but neverless I enjoyed it because it was unusual and interesting that one can manipulate different sounds with children toys. Even w/ the 'What the Spacemen Taught Us' tour in S.F., it was in a small, heavy metal venue in a bad part of town w/ a full house of about 50 people. Friends and I were out in the back patio area before Sonic came on and one can see him taking drugs in his touring van w/ the other musicians (funny as hell) ! Maybe that explains the false starts on a couple of Spacemen 3 songs ...

botox · Post by **botox** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:18 am

The EAR project always causes divides in opinions. People seem to forget that the first album 'Mesmerised' was actually pretty good. Gentle and relaxed and nice bliss out stuff. I also liked some of the Delta 6 10" - it was after that that the project went into weirdness. The first few things were just classic ambience.

porkchop · Post by **porkchop** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:04 pm

someone mentioned pete playing with a full band, i saw the us "songs the spaceman taught us" tour both with and without the band, i much perferred him with the band(including will curruthers). you never know what your gonna get, and yeah the crowd at any EAR show should have an idea what they're gonna get, and if yer into it, you just kick it and listen.

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:28 pm

spacemanrich wrote:
Sprezent mentioned both Spectrum albums, but in fact there are three of which I personally don't think that 'forever alien' should have been considered Spectrum, but rather an E.A.R. project.

This is nonsense. Not sure of your logical deduction here but perhaps you think that he should have saved Ecstasy Symphony for E.A.R. as well? Shall we put aside Suicide, Repeater, and Honey for E.A.R. as well? Is the ratio of songs vs. soundscape/ambient pieces on Forever Alien any different than on Soul Kiss? Or do you consider the choice of of one instrument over another a necessity for a band name change?

Its always mystified me how people draw these boundaries around this subject. Have you actually listened to Forever Alien recently? Feels like I'm Slipping Away is no less a beautiful SONG than say, Sweet Running Water, Love you to the moon and back, or Undo the Taboo?

Forever Alien sounds like no other record I've heard. Why shouldn't it be a Spectrum record? The spooky sound transformation effect it emits is the same underlying sound that interested me in Spacemen 3 from the beginning.

Since SpacemanRich seems to share the majority of the opinions on this matter, (suspicious therein) please go listen to Forever Alien and then help me understand just how it is fundamentally different than any other Spectrum release or rather why it should have been an E.A.R. record. I feel that a good fresh listen will help dissolve some of these old preconceptions.

Close your eyes and you'll see.

--tom

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:45 pm

i think spacemanrich was comparing Sonic's output and the inference was Forever Alien really sounds more like E.A.R. release than a Spectrum release. The fact is Sonic has released records under Sonic Boom, Spectrum and E.A.R. From there I think he is dead on in his observation/opinion. I'm sure Warner Brothers were surprised when Sonic delivered Forever Alien as a new Spectrum record. And not in a good way. It sound nothing like his previous efforts.

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:37 am

yep, and I don't think Forever Alien sounds like any other record made. So by your reasoning, a band's records should sound just like the previous records? OK, so this is obviously the mentality of a WB exec but I have always been disapointed that fans of the music were so surprised. Everyone takes such comfort at knowing and predicting exactly what they are going to get next. How dull and sad is that!?

Forever Alien is a Spectrum record. In fact, it ties with Soul Kiss as my favorite Spectrum record. What is it that makes you think it sounds like an E.A.R. record???

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:11 am

So by your reasoning, a band's records should sound just like the previous records? OK, so this is obviously the mentality of a WB exec

Dont put words in my mouth. Change is good. Bands dont usually change quite this drastically. If hindsight were 20/20 we would have seen this coming. This was the first clue. This wasn't change, it was a 360. I think if a label signs someone based on their track record and this is whats delivered it would come as a pretty big surpise. They could have refused it a la Wilco i suppose.

Forever Alien is a Spectrum record. In fact, it ties with Soul Kiss as my favorite Spectrum record. What is it that makes you think it sounds like an E.A.R. record???

What makes it sound like an E.A.R. record? I dunno. Maybe the experimental ambience of it.
This is pinched from his own web site
"In 1996 Spectrum released the "Forever Alien" album - a groundbreaking effort, in which he fused together inspirations ranging from experimental music, tape manipulation, the output of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and the "Punk Soul" he had worked with since the early 80s. Sonic aptly described the LP as "quite otherworldly". Forever Alien was an album which both confused and delighted critics everywhere and heralded a new wave of output."

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:07 am

spzretent wrote: What makes it sound like an E.A.R. record? I dunno. Maybe the experimental ambience of it.

Experimental Ambience......
Right.. an element that was lacking in Spacemen 3 and earlier Spectrum records? Sorry, I don't see how Forever Alien is a 360 change in direction. Seems pretty on course from Soul Kiss which is quite experimental itself. That too was groundbreaking... a quality missing in just about anything that has come out this side of the 21st century.

Sounds to me like you have not listened to the record since you orignally dismissed it.

As for WB, they didn't give a shit. The suits saw it a an opportunity to cash in on this Spacemen3 thing (They did hire some good a&r peeps which is how the deal came about to begin with). The execs probably did freak out (video anyone?) but that was the least of that label's worries at that time. Anyhow, point is, I doubt the PK or any of the other people involved in making the record thought it was 360 degrees upsidedown from anything else. Pushing the envelope + surprising people... sure.

Go listen to the record please.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:38 am

Experimental Ambience was missing in Spacemen 3 music? From start to finish I think you are wrong. Maybe not quite tot he extent Sonic took it w/E.A.R. but hey people evolve.
I dont want to listen to the record again. I haven't listened to it since it came out. I hated it. I didn't think we were debating the the quality of the record or I never would have chimed in. It was whether or not it is, in the minds of many Spacemen 3 fans, a Spectrum release or perhaps more akin to an E.A.R. release. Thats all.
Where is the a&r guy now? It was great back then. Warner Brothers was the best in the US record company biz. Now he is putting out Warlocks and Blues records which is cool enough I suppose.

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:05 am

I dont want to listen to the record again. I haven't listened to it since it came out. I hated it. I didn't think we were debating the the quality of the record or I never would have chimed in.[/quote]

So we are back to the beginning then. As I suspected you are basing your opinions on a record that you listened to once 8 years ago and are now drawing relations to other things. I know this record well. It is in bounds with all other Spectrum releases. I only suggest you listen to it now because I don't think it is so off the path as you probably remember it. (You is most folx out there). You might still hate it but it is certainly NOT an EAR record. Someone who actually knows F.A. please raise your hand and tell me haw I can remove the Spectrum logo from my yellow glitter vinyl!!!

spzretent wrote:
Where is the a&r guy now? It was great back then. Warner Brothers was the best in the US record company biz. Now he is putting out Warlocks records which is cool enough I suppose.

Actually, better than the Warlocks and closer to the Spacemen ethic is the Greg Ashley record followed by his band, Gris Gris (both on Birdman). SHIT, have people not heard these records??? Well, since I doubt you will go buy back your copy of F.A., I'd guess that you and most people on this list would find the Greg Ashley LP quite enjoyable. Give that some listens. Gris Gris is a bit noisier but same vibe.

Anyhow, I'd think that Dave Katznelson wasn't thinking "oh, fuck they're gonna killme" when he heard what Pete was doing. The guy was generally interested in that stuff and still is, I believe.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:26 am

thanks for the tips. i know David too. more power to him for getting the record released on WB. I just doubt thats what they were counting on.
I do know enough about Spacemen 3, Sonic and Spectrum to form my own opinion that to me, this sounds less like a Spectrum release and more like an E.A.R. release.

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:28 am

spzretent wrote:thanks for the tips. i know David too. more power to him for getting the record released on WB. I just doubt thats what they were counting on.
I do know enough about Spacemen 3, Sonic and Spectrum to form my own opinion that to me, this sounds less like a Spectrum release and more like an E.A.R. release.

And I respect your opinion. My question is why does this sound like an EAR release when the SONGS are based on a 2 chord pop-like structure, no different then many of the other songs that I have mentioned. Is it purely the use of something like a ring modulator that breaks it into a different catagory? Really , please stop quoting press releases and tell me what YOU think. I'm not trying to give you a hard time.. but I just don't see the great divide.... I never have and I usually find that people share this opinion were just not open to it when it arrived next to the much more commercial and accessible LAGWAFIS. As of yet, no one has backed this up with anything.
?

Juzba · Post by **Juzba** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:52 am

Can't compare EAR and Spz, in my opinion.

"Soul Kiss" and "Highs, lows...." are magnifficent, but I think Sonic's best work is The KÃ¶ner Experiment (as EAR). Hypnotic as hell. Call it cold psychedelia, machines on acid. If you are familiar with Pan Sonic, then you'll
know quite what this sounds like.

By the way, someone mentioned Flying Saucer Attack. What's Dave Pierce doing these days? Last I heard, he released the Clear Horizon album on Kranky records with Jessica Bailiff in 2003. A beautiful album, that.
FSA has always been most underaprreciated, I find. I think Dave is almost on par with Sp3/Spz. Certainly the Clear Horizon album sounds a lot better and more inspired, than the last 2 Spz albums I'm afraid.

SpacemanRob · Post by **SpacemanRob** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:42 pm

Seems a shame in this forum that perfectly reasonable discussions are admonished by the same people again and again. SynthiA makes some great points yet tthe veterans of the board chose to dismiss with the contempt of supposed 'fleeting meetings' and hearsay.
Forever Alien is a great album full of wanton paranoia and shows that at least Sonic trys to move things on AND is willing to experiment. Each of his new albums show a marked change in direction and a desire for change.
All of us would love another Perfect Prescription but its not going to happen.
Shame as always the $26's and Spzretent are stuck in the same time-warp and welcome new visitors to the site with such contempt......
To dismiss EAR in such a glib way is criminal.....
Totally agree with Juzba that FSA were(are?) excellent. Somebody was recently offering FSA live shows on drone-on lists and they are excellent.... Once again they would probably scare the shit out of the conservative members of this board.... Have a terrible image of $26 as the old basterd in the Fast Show, always drunk and mumbling incoherently about the past.... Move on.....

Still the new voices in this thread have made it a good read.....

Rock on....

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:54 pm

haha this is getting interesting.

kinda like poking a dead animal with a stick!

xxxshonnxxx

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:37 pm

Its always interesting when you chime in SpRob. The same guy who goes on as nauseum about Julian Cope and every spin off and splinter group. Yet chides someone else for having an opinion.
I have no idea what you are on about attacking new members of this board. That is flat out bullshit. As for $26 having a pop at you every now and then? You asked for it and he's turned it into a sport.
I cant honestly sit here and argue fairly with Synthia because I did dismiss Forever Alien and have not listened to it. I found I had accumulated a rather large record collection full of records I never listened to. I sold them. I may be wrong about this being more like an E.A.R. release but that is my opinion. It is also an opinion many others share on this board. I still have the other two Spectrum releases + a whole load of other live Spectrum CDS.
Wow! You are into FSA? Welcome to 1993.
You want to accuse me of being stuck in a rut? Look in the mirror.

SpacemanRob · Post by **SpacemanRob** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:38 pm

I just feel Spzretent that you answered many of SynthiA's points in a patronsing way and sometimes on here you are happier to cosy up to the same old people with the same old opinions.
Forever Alien is an excellent album which really confounded me to begin with but has grown and grown. I challenge anyone to listen in thew dark, suitably medicated, and not find the album astonishing. Again and again you can hear different vibes and you feel different dreams.... I will even send a copy to you to prove my point....
For $26 I am sure we can answer seperately....
As for FSA fair call on dating them but it was their musical proximity to EAR that i was highlighting nothing else.... We all dip in and out of the past but it still seems only a few move on as well.... As for Mr Julian H Cope i think his new album Citizen Cain'd is one of the best i have heard for ages.... Maybe there are some similarities with Sonic in the sense that at least LAMF and Brain Donor show some sort of exploration and some sense of excitedly moving forward..... Sure this will cause consternation with the die-hards but.....
As for newness i talked excitedly about Winter North Atlantic and still i can find nothing about them.... From Canada so surely someone can help.....

Rock on....

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:13 pm

From Sonic's own website:

"In 1996 Spectrum released the "Forever Alien" album - a groundbreaking effort, in which he fused together inspirations ranging from experimental music, tape manipulation, the output of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and the "Punk Soul" he had worked with since the early 80s. Sonic aptly described the LP as "quite otherworldly". Forever Alien was an album which both confused and delighted critics everywhere and heralded a new wave of output. "

seems to me like it's the bridge between the two, and probably less pleasing to those who aren't crazy about EAR. Me personally - I don't think I could live without my highs/lows record, and I am not sure i could live with Forever Alien...

synthiA · Post by **synthiA** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:03 am

SpaceLine wrote:From Sonic's own website:

"In 1996 Spectrum released the "Forever Alien" album - a groundbreaking effort, in which he fused together inspirations ranging from experimental music, tape manipulation, the output of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and the "Punk Soul" he had worked with since the early 80s. Sonic aptly described the LP as "quite otherworldly". Forever Alien was an album which both confused and delighted critics everywhere and heralded a new wave of output. "

seems to me like it's the bridge between the two, and probably less pleasing to those who aren't crazy about EAR. Me personally - I don't think I could live without my highs/lows record, and I am not sure i could live with Forever Alien...

what? sorry, I don't get it (that press release again?? - - says nothing of EAR??). So it seems that the new reasoning is that if people like it then its worthy of a Spectrum title and if they don't it should be an E.A.R. title. THis way, you don't accidentally spend $10 on somehting that you didn't expect. Well, thank god for record companies and corporate marketing cause most of you might not have any idea what to do with yourselves otherwise.

Has anyone actually listened to an EAR record after DataRape? I find Continuum and Vibrations to be the more accessable of all of the EAR stuff.

ononist · Post by **ononist** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:01 am

I have. I have all the EAR stuff and generally like most of it and love some of it. Need to be in the right mood as generally it enhances or emphasises a mood rather than changes it.

Personally I like Mesmerised and the Phenomena comp the best. Didn't enjoy the Koner at all and the moods and sounds do appear to have become 'colder' over time. Much like Spz in fact.

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:48 pm

synthiA wrote:
SpaceLine wrote:From Sonic's own website:

"In 1996 Spectrum released the "Forever Alien" album - a groundbreaking effort, in which he fused together inspirations ranging from experimental music, tape manipulation, the output of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and the "Punk Soul" he had worked with since the early 80s. Sonic aptly described the LP as "quite otherworldly". Forever Alien was an album which both confused and delighted critics everywhere and heralded a new wave of output. "

seems to me like it's the bridge between the two, and probably less pleasing to those who aren't crazy about EAR. Me personally - I don't think I could live without my highs/lows record, and I am not sure i could live with Forever Alien...
what? sorry, I don't get it (that press release again?? - - says nothing of EAR??). So it seems that the new reasoning is that if people like it then its worthy of a Spectrum title and if they don't it should be an E.A.R. title. THis way, you don't accidentally spend $10 on somehting that you didn't expect. Well, thank god for record companies and corporate marketing cause most of you might not have any idea what to do with yourselves otherwise.

Has anyone actually listened to an EAR record after DataRape? I find Continuum and Vibrations to be the more accessable of all of the EAR stuff.

all i meant is that it's described on sonic's own website as being groundbreaking which i take to be very different from previous work(ie, a big change in sound). honestly, i could care less what the artist title is and i was just trying to point out that maybe, since the records are done by the same person, that they will have similarities.

and no, i've never heard continuum and i never will. there are way, way, way too many great records in this world and my time is limited.

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:38 pm

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:22 am

Spiritualized

sonic boom takes a backseat to spiritualized?

sonic boom takes a backseat to spiritualized?

sonic boom takes a back seat to spiritualized?

Re: sonic boom takes a back seat to spiritualized?

sonic takes a back seat...

sonic boom takes a back seat to spiritualized