Britpop spleen x 20

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plastic37
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Britpop spleen x 20

Post by plastic37 »

Here in the UK we are hearing a celebration of 20 years since/of Britpop.
What this amounts to is the BBC scheduling various documentaries, some weekend newspaper articles by them that know and many blogs etc etc etc
The programmers and editors have taken the death of Kurt Cobain as the starting point. Which kind of fits directly in with ideas of junctures in music histories - tidy time slots which lend themselves to equally tidy narratives.

The reason i am bringing it to your attention is that the negative reactions to this have been the most entertaining aspect of it. So, i am inviting your spleen! And i am sure you good folks have a few choice words to say on the matter. And i'm looking for your alternative interpretations.

For me 1994 was about Stereolab, Ill Communication, Seefeel and a very good local band called Subaqwa who should have been bigger than Pulp. Oasis were a dirge but i have to admit that by the end of the year the inescapable exposure to some of their singles had worn me down. Y'know, there is a feeling there. It's loud guitars.

When i think about this time i'm also reminded of the business aspects of it. How advances still existed and so on. And Rwanda.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by TheWarmth »

I hate the fact that so many talented bands that sounded nothing like each other were lumped together basically out of journalistic laziness. Blur, Oasis and Pulp (the three primarily "Britpop" bands) sound nothing like each other. I think all three were great. Suede were great, too. The Auteurs were fucking fantastic. Somehow, though, mashing them together under one banner makes them all fairly repulsive. It's pretty sad. The same argument can be made for shoegaze. The genre label itself becomes an insult, because it's doesn't allow for the individuality of the bands that it encompasses.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Laz69 »

It always bugged the hell out of me that The Boo Radleys were lumped in with the Britpop thing... they were SOOOO much better than all the crap that came with that... still annoys me to hear this

:evil:
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by simonkeeping »

I remember a TV interview with the Boo Radleys around the time of Cmon Kids and they were railing against bands Like Kula Shaker and Ocean Colour Scene and how they were fooling people with there bland music.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

bands like the boo radleys only became famous because they clutched onto blur's coat tails by ripping them off

i liked oasis etc at the time. i don't listen to that stuff now but it had its time and place for me. i can't knock it. i'll just leep the bbc music shows i neve rlisten to anyway off :)
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by coffeepotman »

It looked like everyone was having fun in contrast to what was happening in the states with the tail end of grunge and that awful rap-rock thing. This was pre-internet for me so you had to really search out music. I lost faith in rock and roll during that time except for a few bands and got turned on to a lot of techno/jungle and going to clubs.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Laz69 »

The Dr wrote:bands like the boo radleys only became famous because they clutched onto blur's coat tails by ripping them off
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but thats probably the most ridiculous thing i've heard yet. Give me one example of where they did this, as i'm not aware of any...

The Boo Radleys never ripped off Blur... they had a slight Dino Jr thing going on when they first started, but there is NOTHING about them that sounds, looks or mimics Blur in anyway whatsoever. From Everythings Alright Forever through to the end, they were their own band with their own influences. I'm obviously slightly biased, but they had so much more going for them that they didn't need to imitate anyone. Jeez, they threatened to make a No1 pop album on a whim to see if they could, and they did (even if it did spawn one of the most annoying songs of the 90s! :lol: )

An i don't recall any comparisons to Blur when their Giant Steps album came out and blew the critics away either!
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by James T »

2nd Idlewild album was great, they supported Blur along with Super Furry Animals way back when I saw them. I was like 9 years old. I also think Symposium played with Blur. I really liked their first EP 'one day at a time' at the time it came out, but the album was awful. (Turns out both were not too good, but I was young.)

Would've been good to see the shows Pulp did with Saint Etienne
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by spzretent »

Totally agree about Boo Radleys owing nothing to Blur. The only possible crossover would be Blur's She's So High being way more guitar oreinted like the early Boo Radleys stuff. But this era is hardly what either band are known for.

I will also add that the whole Britpop era totally killed my interest in UK independent releases. So many shitty bands: Shed Seven, Menswear, the afore mentioned Kula Shaker, Powder, The Bluetones, Echobelly, Northern Uproar, need I go on?. As a retailer who's customers religously read NME/Melody Maker/Select etc. we were expected to stock all these CD singles. When I closed shop I had tons of these. They are probably in a landfill somewhere. Where they belong.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

Laz69 wrote:
The Dr wrote:bands like the boo radleys only became famous because they clutched onto blur's coat tails by ripping them off
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but thats probably the most ridiculous thing i've heard yet. Give me one example of where they did this, as i'm not aware of any...

The Boo Radleys never ripped off Blur... they had a slight Dino Jr thing going on when they first started, but there is NOTHING about them that sounds, looks or mimics Blur in anyway whatsoever. From Everythings Alright Forever through to the end, they were their own band with their own influences. I'm obviously slightly biased, but they had so much more going for them that they didn't need to imitate anyone. Jeez, they threatened to make a No1 pop album on a whim to see if they could, and they did (even if it did spawn one of the most annoying songs of the 90s! :lol: )

An i don't recall any comparisons to Blur when their Giant Steps album came out and blew the critics away either!

he he gottcha! :wink: :D :lol:
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

spzretent wrote: They are probably in a landfill somewhere. Where they belong.
speaking of landfills what are you guys thoughts on radiohead? they were in/out of the britpop thing. i never got into them that much with the exception of a few songs (landfill reference to no surprises)
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by nickh »

The Dr wrote:
spzretent wrote: They are probably in a landfill somewhere. Where they belong.
speaking of landfills what are you guys thoughts on radiohead? they were in/out of the britpop thing. i never got into them that much with the exception of a few songs (landfill reference to no surprises)
Used to love Radiohead, I had a copy of Creep, thought the Bends was a great record and loved OK Computer. The only records I listen to occasionally now are Amnesiac and Kid A.

I have to say I now just find them a bit, well, depressing?
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by nickh »

I loved Seefeel around 93/94 but started to lose interest when they ditched the guitars. My favourite records from this time were Selected Ambient Works II by the Aphex Twin and Giant Steps by The Boo Radleys. I thought Blur made some good records but didn’t buy Damon Albarn’s Chelsea / 80’s casual / geezer image. The Great Escape I thought was a dreadful record. My girlfriend of the time listened to What’s the Story Morning Glory solidly for about 6 months and I did become quite fond of it, never listen to it now.
Last edited by nickh on Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by olan »

The Dr wrote:
spzretent wrote: They are probably in a landfill somewhere. Where they belong.
speaking of landfills what are you guys thoughts on radiohead? they were in/out of the britpop thing. i never got into them that much with the exception of a few songs (landfill reference to no surprises)
I find Radiohead utterly unlistenable. There are few bands I am less able to deal with, but the Manic Street Preachers are also a huge source of discontent IME.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by sunray »

Awful time for music. Must admit I've mellowed out towards Blur, Pulp and Oasis over the years (all three do have some decent tunes) but I would never listen to them by choice.

Other than Super Furries and Supergrass it were all shite. I wouldn't lump Boo Radleys in with Britpop at all though.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

did you see damon allbran recently said that heroin was good for writing songs- it's not like he has a new solo album and tour...o wait...never really liked blur (a handful of good songs- beetlebum, tender, out of time) gorilliazs and i haven't listened past there...
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
plastic37
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by plastic37 »

TheWarmth wrote:lumped together basically out of journalistic laziness.
That's an interesting point. I know what you mean but at the same time the way music criticism conjure scenes shows a certain creative agency.
The Dr wrote:he he gottcha! :wink: :D :lol:
You had me too. I was thinking: "what planet is this guy on?"
Laz69 wrote:It always bugged the hell out of me that The Boo Radleys were lumped in with the Britpop thing... they were SOOOO much better than all the crap that came with that... still annoys me to hear this
Well, they only have themselves to blame. They appeared on the Britpop Now television programme which kind of defined the whole thing. Its possible that they didn't fully understand the concept of the show. It may not have actually been called Britpop Now when they agreed to the booking. Maybe they were put under pressure etc etc. But Martin Carr once reported that he had turned down a Loaded interview so he clearly knew his own mind when it came to media appearances. I'm sure that by 1995 the Boo Radleys were in a position to pick and chose in a way that say... Powder weren't.
sunray wrote:Awful time for music.
... great time for many elements of the music industry.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Ian »

I find it hard to join in the cynicism. It was an exciting time, and I still adore many of the bands (Blur especially), and equally despise the same ones I did at the time (Shed Seven, OCS, etc.). But you had to take the poor with the good, and there would inevitably be dross when there were several new bands every week. There was no obligation to buy them all.

Menswe@r were great fun and had some good pop records. Many of the bands that didn't have an album's worth of material still had some good singles.

The Boo Radleys weren't really part of it, but without their exploitation of the mood of the moment, they would never have had any hits. Not sure they were glad that they did, after the event, but they were well up for it at the time. (As I'm sure I've said here many times, I ran their fan club from just after Giant Steps.)
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by James T »

That song The Circle by Ocean Colour Scene is a nice little ditty, but I don't like the rest of their stuff. Blur are brilliant but I agree that the great escape isn't a particularly good album. I still enjoy it but I think that is more just because I grew up with it.

What about the manics? I'm a big fan, up until 1997...
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by olan »

James T wrote:What about the manics? I'm a big fan, up until 1997...
Utter tosh IMHO. I couldn't understand why the NME stuck the boot into them so much when they first emerged as I thought they were crap and didn't deserve any attention (the '4 Real' incident IIRC was a particular low point) Can't understand what people see in them really. However, it takes all sorts. Runcie is a massive fan of the Manics though..... :wink:
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by jack white »

I reckon James dean bradfield is one of the greatest British guitarist players of the past 30 yrs. I don't like MSP at all & actually a lot about them turns me off but he's got serious chops. Undervalued. & in fairness to the 3 of them they've forged a career out of it & are still going so they obv struck a nerve w/some folk.. I think they do try & reinvent themselves to a degree every so often but that might just be PR guff I dunno..

Re Radiohead
I actually think In Rainbows is prob their finest record. I like the trajectory of their career & evolution into a properly mature state. A lot of their baggage is misplaced hype & miserableness but I still have a connection w/OkC & KidA. The first half of OkC & Lucky I think are fantastic, biting & full of anger & energy & KidA has many great (borrowed) ideas such as the Tom waits-ian Motion Picture Soundtrack. In Rainbows I really thought they'd found their identy at last & it had some really wonderful moments.
The bends has not stood the test of time & is their most britpoppy moment, except maybe the debut?? It has about 3 songs (street spirit & just... Ok 2songs) & the rest are kinda embarrassing..

Sfa have just gotten better w/age. Remarkable band. Mindblowing just thinking about how great they are, never mind listening to them.. They make life better.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by redcloud »

I lived in London at the time...young (25 in '94) and no kids. Great memories and it felt like the UK was the center of the world and London its capital. I bought the MM and NME and tried to keep up with the latest new bands but it really did seem like both those rags would champion a band based on their looks before they even released something. Menswear are a good example. The whole media concocted strife between Oasis and Blur, North v south, working class v posh boys was laughable too. That said, some great albums came out....to this day I love "Wild Wood" and it was cool that Weller was adopted as the godfather of the movement. OCS album was lame and the "Riverboat Song" totally overplayed as Chris Evans chose it as the opening song for his popular show.

You know, the one band that I REALLY liked a lot back then were The Longpigs out of Sheffield. I love their raw, brusing debut album and I saw them live at the Kentish Town Forum and they were equally as raw, punishing yet full of emotion. The follow up record didn't make quite the same splash but it was much more complex than the first. To this day I still play both those albums and the 2nd has grown over the years to really reveal itself.

I never really felt Radiohead were part of that scene though. People can also say what they want about them but I have great respect for that band. Some of their albums don't work for me ("Amnesiac", "King of Limbs") but, "The Bends" is brilliant rock album and to release "Kid A" after the huge success of "OK Computer" was admirable, creative and a huge risk. "Kid A" is probably my favorite album by them but I agree that "In Rainbows" is also superb as is "The Bends".

I also always had great respect for The Charlatans. They seemed to stay out of a lot of the media nonsense and quietly got on recording some superb albums. I know there was tragedy with the death of Rob Collins but they stayed focused and released some top notch records.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by runaway »

1994 was the year of Second Coming, aka the final nail in the Brit Pop coffin.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by redcloud »

I recently voiced my opinion of Suede to some friends. I'm not a fan. I'm not comparing them to either but, they fall somewhat in that category of Bowie or Queen. Yes, Butler is a decent guitarist but I never liked Anderson and the albums came off cold, over the top, pompous, pretentious and full of themselves. I know I will probably be massacred in here for saying that but...there you go.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by spzretent »

I think Radiohead were absoutely considered Brit Pop only because of Pablo Honey. A below average Brit Pop-ish record. The rest of the catalog is quite different. I love The Bends. Thats it. I am not a Radiohead fan at all. In fact I dont think I have heard anything past Kid A.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by redcloud »

spzretent wrote:I think Radiohead were absoutely considered Brit Pop only because of Pablo Honey.
I always saw "Pablo" as a British latecomer entry to grunge. It seemed to precede the whole "Britpop" scene.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by spzretent »

Timing wise it fits right in there.
Britpop started in the early 90's Pablo Honey was released in 1993. From a US perspective that is how it was pushed by the record companies to retailers. Lumped right in.
Except that record wasn't very good including Creep which sounded like a second rate Suede.
They were unremarkable and forgettable live too.
No inkling of them becoming the most important band ever. Well for a year or two anyway.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Dreamweapon »

nickh wrote:I loved Seefeel around 93/94 but started to lose interest when they ditched the guitars. My favourite records from this time were Selected Ambient Works II by the Aphex Twin and Giant Steps by The Boo Radleys. I thought Blur made some good records but didn’t buy Damon Albarn’s Chelsea / 80’s casual / geezer image. The Great Escape I thought was a dreadful record. My girlfriend of the time listened to What’s the Story Morning Glory solidly for about 6 months and I did become quite fond of it, never listen to it now.
I really loved that first Seefeel album 'Quique' especially the track 'Industrious'. Very in keeping with the 'Selected...' album you mention by Aphex Twin ('Xtal' etc). Saw Seefeel supporting Spz at Manchester Uni MDH in 1995. I have got a CD somewhere of 'CH-VOX' by Seefeel too - not listened to it in ages but agree that the early stuff was much better.

Does anyone else also remember that Select magazine with the 'Ynks Go Home' front cover? The bands mentioned there also included The Auteurs, St Etienne (still have a soft spot for them), and Denim (I still think their first album is superb). On the subject of which, has anyone seen the 'Lawrence of Belgravia' film and can comment on it? There were a couple of promo bits on YouTube but that's all I know. There was also an offshoot of Denim in a band called Fly which Martin Duffy played in - all instrumental stuff and not at all unlike some of the Neu! 75 album. We are talking around 2002 ish now, so slightly off at a tangent, but they still deserve a mention!
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Bull Lee »

The whole Britpop thing seemed to me to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, as already mentioned the grunge scene was way past it's sell by date and a lot of mediocre indie bands were finished when Oasis came along and rightly so but a lot of good stuff was criminally ignored if they weren't part of the scene. Pure Phase as far as I can remember went totally under the radar with a short interview with Gary Crowley on the T.V. and a poor piece with Jason in NME.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

redcloud wrote:
You know, the one band that I REALLY liked a lot back then were The Longpigs out of Sheffield. I love their raw, brusing debut album and I saw them live at the Kentish Town Forum and they were equally as raw, punishing yet full of emotion. The follow up record didn't make quite the same splash but it was much more complex than the first. To this day I still play both those albums and the 2nd has grown over the years to really reveal itself.

d to release "Kid A" after the huge success of "OK Computer" was admirable, creative and a huge risk. "Kid A" is probably my favorite album by them but I agree that "In Rainbows" is also superb as is "The Bends".

what do you think of richard hawley's solo stuff (he was guitairist in longpigs before joining pulp)? i used to really like it but have gone of off it

ok computer then kid a were radiohead trying to make albums that no one would like, a big f you to those who loved creep and the bends, seems it didn't work as they had planned...
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

Dreamweapon wrote:
nickh wrote:much better.

Does anyone else also remember that Select magazine with the 'Ynks Go Home' front cover?!

was that the one with liam gallagher and patsy kensit on the cover looking 'sexy'?


in the excellent book about britpop 'the last party' and the film 'live forever',



coxon speaks of having to listen to nirvana under the covers on headphones in his bunk as the anti-us thing was rife on the blur bus and in the uk 'scene'
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Dreamweapon »

It was this one:

http://selectmagazinescans.monkeon.co.uk/?cat=650

Here are some Spz scans - can anyone make them bigger and readable?

http://selectmagazinescans.monkeon.co.u ... ritualized
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

...simply...Suede ripped britpop a new arsehole before the term had even been coined...

...looking back where's the camaraderie now that britpop, lads mags, girl power, MDMA, Sky Sports, budget airlines et al promised?...it's fucked...and the UK seems far more polarised and marginalised from the come down...

...Suede ripped the mask from Blair' mandatory middle class before they could ejaculate over there ISA's...

...although I'm grateful that I was around that music in my teens and not Pitbull featuring Jason Derulo featuring Will.I.Am tag teaming Miley featuring Kei$ha featuring Enrique...
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by jack white »

Stuart X.Hunter wrote: ...looking back where's the camaraderie now that britpop, lads mags, girl power, MDMA, Sky Sports, budget airlines et al promised?...it's fucked...and the UK seems far more polarised and marginalised from the come down...
Huh?

it's prob just a generation thing.
20yrs from today's teenagers will be saying, "ugh it wasn't like this in my day".
camaraderie? or a means of exclusion? doesn't hold any value for me so what am i to do? lump it? i find my own fun.

& what was going to happen w/this mass friendship movement? the same thing that did happen: fuck all. except standing in a field or a hall w/ur mates getting shitfaced & dancing. & guess what? they still do that, only like i say it's the next generations turn to be sold the same bullshit in different packaging.
& it'll die out too & nothing will change. then it'll be on to the next group who go to their festivals & their music until you & me are old & die & rot away & it'll continue after that as well.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Dreamweapon »

Anyone else remember this?

http://vimeo.com/7029399

Mark and Lard played it quite often when they did the Radio 1 afternoon show.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

jack white wrote:
Stuart X.Hunter wrote: ...looking back where's the camaraderie now that britpop, lads mags, girl power, MDMA, Sky Sports, budget airlines et al promised?...it's fucked...and the UK seems far more polarised and marginalised from the come down...
Huh?

it's prob just a generation thing.
20yrs from today's teenagers will be saying, "ugh it wasn't like this in my day".
camaraderie? or a means of exclusion? doesn't hold any value for me so what am i to do? lump it? i find my own fun.

& what was going to happen w/this mass friendship movement? the same thing that did happen: fuck all. except standing in a field or a hall w/ur mates getting shitfaced & dancing. & guess what? they still do that, only like i say it's the next generations turn to be sold the same bullshit in different packaging.
& it'll die out too & nothing will change. then it'll be on to the next group who go to their festivals & their music until you & me are old & die & rot away & it'll continue after that as well.
leonard cohen said that the 60s lasted for 15 minutes...
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'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by redcloud »

The Dr wrote:what do you think of richard hawley's solo stuff (he was guitairist in longpigs before joining pulp)? i used to really like it but have gone of off it
I've only heard one Hawley solo LP and it was years ago at a dinner party. That was kind of the impression that was left on me...dinner party music for people in their 30's and 40's. I'd be interested in hearing it again though as I haven't heard it since.

I think the main guy behind The Longpigs was the singer - Crispin Hunt. His dad was a vicar and many of their songs tapped into his restrained childhood growing up with an ultra-religious father.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by TheWarmth »

Some of Hawley's solo output is really good. Quite different from Longpigs, though. A lot of it is very 50's Elvis and Roy Orbison-inspired. He's got a wonderful voice and is a great guitarist. I recommend Late Night Final.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

redcloud wrote:
The Dr wrote:what do you think of richard hawley's solo stuff (he was guitairist in longpigs before joining pulp)? i used to really like it but have gone of off it
I've only heard one Hawley solo LP and it was years ago at a dinner party. That was kind of the impression that was left on me...dinner party music for people in their 30's and 40's. I'd be interested in hearing it again though as I haven't heard it since.

I think the main guy behind The Longpigs was the singer - Crispin Hunt. His dad was a vicar and many of their songs tapped into his restrained childhood growing up with an ultra-religious father.
some hawley for you

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2n3r8v

enjoy
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by mc »

I remain a fan of Blur and revisit them from time to time, and I still utterly adore Pulp. Their pre-"Britpop" output is sadly overlooked in favour of their classic era, and it's all worth getting if you're a fan. The latest re-releases of "It", "Freaks" and "Separations" are great value if you don't have them already - they come with bonus discs containing their non-album singles and EPs of the era. So many wonderful songs...
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by olan »

mc wrote:I remain a fan of Blur and revisit them from time to time, and I still utterly adore Pulp. Their pre-"Britpop" output is sadly overlooked in favour of their classic era, and it's all worth getting if you're a fan. The latest re-releases of "It", "Freaks" and "Separations" are great value if you don't have them already - they come with bonus discs containing their non-album singles and EPs of the era. So many wonderful songs...
I'm by no means a Pulp fan, but have a bunch of their early releases via my wife who is a fan. However, I have very strong memories of how good they were at Reading on a hot afternoon in August 1994. IIRC they closed up shop with 'Babies' and 'Do you remember the first time' and the whole place went joyfully nuts. One of the best festival sets I've seen....
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by TheWarmth »

The Dr wrote:the film 'live forever'
I enjoyed the bit where the journalist from Loaded magazine explains that Americans have a lot of confidence but no talent.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by runaway »

TheWarmth wrote:
The Dr wrote:the film 'live forever'
I enjoyed the bit where the journalist from Loaded magazine explains that Americans have a lot of confidence but no talent.
But he forgot to mention a horrible sense of style.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by plastic37 »

redcloud wrote: The Dr wrote:what do you think of richard hawley's solo stuff (he was guitairist in longpigs before joining pulp)? i used to really like it but have gone of off it



I've only heard one Hawley solo LP and it was years ago at a dinner party. That was kind of the impression that was left on me...dinner party music for people in their 30's and 40's. I'd be interested in hearing it again though as I haven't heard it since.

I think the main guy behind The Longpigs was the singer - Crispin Hunt.
Yeah, its pretty SAFE stuff. The first Richard Hawley release on Setanta was a mini lp. That's the one you want. Its not vastly different to the later stuff but for some reason... Maybe because it was the first one before he had any idea if what he was doing was any good and before he had settled on a style. Late Night Final and Low Edges are also OK but like The Dr i too have been unimpressed with the lps since. It seems as though the elements of his style that he has emphasised in later work have been the crooner, twangy thing. Maybe the first mini lp was a bit more risky.
I just remembered, there is a Long Pigs Bside by Hawley that really showcases his best side. I wouldn't play this at a dinner party!


Its a great shame that we haven't heard Crispin Hunt's voice since.
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SHIT-POP

Post by BzaInSpace »

May Britpop Burn In Hell!

Getting that out of the way, now I'll tell you how I really feel.

Britpop? Shitpop, more like. At it's worst, a truly crappy bunch of bands playing reductive, fascimile nonsense with some jingoistic, flag-waving bollocks thrown in for good measure.

The likes of Oasis set back pop music for years - people like Liam made it fashionable to be thick as fuck, while his wizened (and absurdly overrated) older brother's songwriting chops were ludicrously compared to Lennon & McCartney... for seriously bland, path-of-least-resistance, 'lager 'n' coke' anthems topped off with say-nothing, meaningless "moon-in-June" lyrical pish.

Where exactly was even a fraction of the Beatles forward-thinking, progressive, daring and experimental side here?

Morning Glory - one of the most tedious and overrated albums of all time. When it was released I couldn't figure out what the fuss was about - and I still don't. The fact that it remains one of the biggest selling records in the UK proves that the public generally are fucking stupid.

Blur weren't much better - a few decent pop hits but the albums were mostly rubbish. It's hard to really love a band that seems so insincere and lightweight. Plus a fucking cheese-monger on bass, and a Labour MP on drums. Nice.

Suede? Regular readers will know I think the first two albums were amazing - Dog Man Star is outstanding, and remains the greatest British pop record from that era by some distance. They sorta kicked off the whole Britpop thing by accident with their early glammy hit and heavyweight music press hype - a music press that, to be fair was bored by The Wonder Stuff and Molly Half Head.

To their credit they quickly disassociated themselves with all the 'Eng-er-land is wonderful' bullshit - although it could be argued that Coming Up was their attempt to align themselves a bit with all the fashionable nonsense at the time.

Either way it was a strictly 2D reductive record compared to their earlier records - such a shame Bernard Butler left as they approached audio critical mass...

As mentioned here already, one of the finest records releases in 1995 (Pure Phase) was all but forgotten about as the press and public writhed themselves into a frenzy celebrating such dire garbage as the previously mentioned Oasis abomination, The Great Escape, and stacks of bands who were resolutely shit. I need not name them, but surely in a 100 years or so people will chant the likes of Sleeper, Northern Uproar, Menswe@r, The Latrines, The Twats, Embrace, Powder, Smaller and such like in a bid to ward off evil.

Lastly, anyone who has read John Niven's awesome Kill Your Friends might realize that this probably really told the truth about what was going on behind the scenes of the record industry during the mid-to-late 90s...

Elastica had some good songs though. :wink:

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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Ian »

There isn't much point arguing against people's taste, and indeed I agree that some of the bands mentioned were worthless (although I still rate post-Butler Suede, although almost as a different band, and have a bit of a soft spot for early Embrace as well). Blur made some superb albums, though, and there's quite a lot to love on The Great Escape, although it's far from their best.

But anyone who thinks that, in the absence of Britpop, Pure Phase would have been a smash hit and Jason would have been on the cover of Smash Hits has a tenuous grasp on reality... PP is one of my favourite Spiritualized albums, but it fulfils a completely different function to pop music (which, essentially, Britpop was). I love both, but for very different reasons.

I remember seeing The Verve at Phoenix in 1995 (in between The High Llamas and Spiritualized - that was a night!), and Richard was haranguing the audience for not being more active. I thought that this was silly - you've crafted fantastic slabs of atmosphere, which the crowd are loving, but don't expect them to be jumping up and down with abandon. Be happy with the amazing space you've carved out, you're not a disposable pop band. (Not sure this analogy works considering what happened to them afterwards, so I'm not sure why I started on this tangent...) But great as they were (and it was a good Spz show as well), Suede on the first day was one of the best performances I've ever seen.

Oasis did go pish very quickly, though. Country House was hardly Blur's finest moment, but I'm glad that pop won that particular battle over rock.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

you can't really say becasue you don't like a band that the people who like the band are stupid. different people get different things from music. being a child and listening to oasis i liked their positive attitude (some might say i don't beleive in heaven, go and tell it to the man in hell) and tender love songs (now that you're mie, we'll find a way of chasing the sun, let me be the one that shines with you...). i didn't know what drugs were, nor that there was a 'war' going on over music. i used to enjoy noel gallagher's interviews 'cos he was very funny (but swore too much). you could easily say anyone who likes the beatles early records 'i want to hold your hand' are stupid. lennon said to dylan 'wouldn't it be great if we wrote songs for each other and recorded them' and dylan replied 'none of that i want to hold your hand shit'. generally britpop was pop music. it had no pretensions of being wagner or cohen or hank willams. it was just pop songs. it is hard to get angry at pop music because it is so inoofensive, unless they butcher a song you love (i heard an awful cover of mrs robinson the other day, ugh!)
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Kurious Oranj »

i think that was the last era that people really gave a shit about bands

these days it seems like hip hop artists are the new rockstars
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by BzaInSpace »

Ian wrote:But anyone who thinks that, in the absence of Britpop, Pure Phase would have been a smash hit and Jason would have been on the cover of Smash Hits has a tenuous grasp on reality...
Hahaha, but of course. Isn't that why all post here?

Seriously though, I'm under no such illusions that Jason would have been Smash Hits fodder if not for Britpop - although that is an amusing idea in itself. But if only a fraction of the press than even Shed Seven (ugh!) let alone Oa*is garnered was blown on Pure Phase... well who knows, it might have even gotten to Ladies and Gentlemen... levels of success at least. Which isn't all that much granted.

Ultimately I still believe Pure Phase is mostly a pop album, albeit with some abstract and experimental touches. Much like Ladies and Gentlemen... then. Certainly I don't think it's too hardcore for the charts. Not in 1995 anyway.
The Dr wrote:you can't really say becasue you don't like a band that the people who like the band are stupid...
Well I didn't actually say that... although I think within reason I can post what I like. :?

That said, I did throw out a disparaging, judgemental comment on the Great British Public's collective taste in records, which indeed is mostly bullshit IN MY OPINION.

How else can we explain the success of say Coldplay, Miley Cyrus or Tiësto? Or indeed U2.

To reply from your point of view - because millions of people like something that equates to it being good? I think not.

I'm also puzzled - you are suggesting Hank Williams or Leonard Cohen aren't pop? Weird.

Still, at least you didn't mention Dylan in this post...
Dr wrote:lennon said to dylan 'wouldn't it be great if we wrote songs for each other and recorded them' and dylan replied 'none of that i want to hold your hand shit'...


Ah.

PS - The early Beatles records are fantastic and vital and totally essential!
Unlike the cobblers punted by the Gallagher twunts.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

BzaInSpace wrote:
The Dr wrote:you can't really say becasue you don't like a band that the people who like the band are stupid...
Well I didn't actually say that... although I think within reason I can post what I like. :?

That said, I did throw out a disparaging, judgemental comment on the Great British Public's collective taste in records, which indeed is mostly bullshit IN MY OPINION.

How else can we explain the success of say Coldplay, Miley Cyrus or Tiësto? Or indeed U2.

To reply from your point of view - because millions of people like something that equates to it being good? I think not.

I'm also puzzled - you are suggesting Hank Williams or Leonard Cohen aren't pop? Weird.
my apologises, i meant 'you' as in 'one', it was not directed at anyone in particular, just generalisations. my tastes differ to a lot of othe people's, that doesn't make them smart or dumb. all music is pop music. mozart wrote great pop music. and just because a few people like something doesn't make it good. there are many cult films that are rubbish. what is good is good whether people are tuned into it or not. the bible has had billions of readers and is a great book, the da vinci code has had millions of readers and is utter tosh

ps. i'm flattered that you read my posts in depth :D
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by natty »

The Dr wrote:bands like the boo radleys only became famous because they clutched onto blur's coat tails by ripping them off
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by angelsighs »

I was in my mid teens in the mid-nineties so kind of a perfect age for Britpop.. it was kind of a gateway for me from cheesy pop to 'proper music'.
a lot of the music has aged badly. yes, much of it was conservative, retro, formulaic, lumpen and with no sex, swing or rhythm to it. god knows what Americans thought of us if that was the best music we could offer them!
what I do remember quite fondly is it was possibly the last time that 'indie' music made a big splash in the mainstream. even your Nan knew who Liam Gallagher was. everything seemed a BIG DEAL... now the music scene has become atomized into little scenes, for better or worse.

also, thinking back I wasn't really so sure that the term was really restricted to JUST white retro guitar bands (at least in my young mind at the time).. that seems to be a reductive thing that journalists do. I remember any music that was successful and British being lumped in with it.. at festival and on compilations you had dance and electronic acts rubbing shoulders with rockier and grungier ones, including some bands who predated it (look at the Manics- they weren't Britpop per se but Everything Must Go fits right in with that zeitgeist- the eyeliner and nihilism was out and sports casual and stadium anthems was in!).
not sure what point I am trying to make really.. a lot of the music seems crap in retrospect but as a youngster it was all quite exciting at the time. the music scene as a whole seemed in quite rude health, really. even the cult bands must have got some residual benefits from some bands like Oasis being so massive.
not sure about this anniversary nonsense though. just leave it be!

another mention for Idlewild from me too.. I guess they started just at the end of Britpop but always liked them. they were trad guitar rock, but they had both a snotty punk side and a melancholy quality that added something to it. I think they're still one of the bands I have seen live the most! :)
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by heisenberg »

The whole Britpop celebration party, as mostly hosted by the BBC, simply serves the same function as the original Britpop- to make some money for people in offices somewhere. Not about music per se, more taking advantage of people's good nature.

So what? I liked early oasis where the drummer and guitarists don't seem to play at the same tempo. It was badly produced, silly, but tuneful and optimistic. When they started consistently mentioning the band beginning with 'B' and hanging with future terrorists of third world countries then yes, the party was over. And The Great Escape is still the most cheesy and nasty album by a 'big' band that I've ever heard in my life.

In 1995 it was an ok summer weather wise, people seemed vaguely happy. Most of the dodgy and shed seven fans probably listen to Bruno Mars through their iPhones to keep their kids quiet on a car journey these days. And they probably can't remember how the third single of Cast's debut album goes despite buying CD 1 and CD2 back in the day. Were they really 'into music' as they made out.?Who cares. Does anyone watch Men Behaving Badly today and find it funny? Nope. Some might have chuckled back them. Didn't stop a load of people making money out of caricature rubbish, though. Still, The Day Today stands up after all this time.

When Spread Your Wings gets its first live airing for a long time in 2014, twenty years after its release, the people who matter give a shit. It's a big deal to the PP fans, regardless of when they got on board with its genius. It's a 1995 album. But it's also my 2002 album. It's timeless.

Sorry, a ramble. Let's ignore the nostalgic look at a horribly nostalgic time in music history. Good music doesn't rely on anniversaries or 'The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame' to support it. Let's boycott the whole lot, and stop the people living in the past getting rich for repackaging us tat.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by BzaInSpace »

Heisenberg, that's a great post.

I salute you - well said!

Bonus points for mentioning the handiwork of the great Chris Morris - the legendary Brass Eye perhaps hastened the end of Britpop - or at least kicked against a few pricks.

Remember the bit about "Liam Builds Staircase Out Of Gear"? Awesome work.

And then there was this.

:shock:
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by heisenberg »

BzaInSpace wrote:Heisenberg, that's a great post.

I salute you - well said!

Bonus points for mentioning the handiwork of the great Chris Morris - the legendary Brass Eye perhaps hastened the end of Britpop - or at kicked against a few pricks.

Remember the bit about "Liam Builds Staircase Out Of Gear"? Awesome work.

And then there was this.

:shock:
Haha I love those Chris Morris parodies! Cheers BZA.

You know that awful Katy Perry tune 'Roar' (or is it 'Eye of the Tiger?')? I don't know why, but every time I hear that song's bridge melody I can't help but think of Chris Morris' hilarious Eminem/Durst mashup popstar JLB-8 and his song Little White Butt. In my head they're vaguely similar melodically. Just a brain fart of mine, but seeing as I'm talking about music that sounds familiar, I guess it's right at home in the Britpop thread.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

As the Talmud says, there's good wine in every generation.
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by plastic37 »

Good article here
http://thequietus.com/articles/15092-bl ... ary-review
The media's been full of it, but then it always was. They pretty much control the media now, that Britpop generation – these are the new baby boomers, second-rate and shallow like the times. And this is how the glorious anniversary has been celebrated: all the usual bores, saying all the usual boring things. And I mean... just listen to them. A voice on the radio telling me that Britpop's commercial success, and its prominence in the media, was "youth culture winning". Seriously – youth culture winning. They actually said that! In 2014!
Includes a film of something that Damon Albarn's dad 'invented' which is a nice way into/reminder about the massive upload of Pathe News clips to Youtube.
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by The Dr »

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: Britpop spleen x 20

Post by Bull Lee »

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