Vinyl

[PopeJez]

Fascinating article in the Guardian today...

Are they referring to Plain Recordings when they talk about shit 180gm reissues mastered from MP3..?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/j ... t-comeback

[James T]

Almost certainly.

[spzretent]

You know its not good when these new MBV Loveless 2x LP bootlegs have appeared and they sound better than the Plain reissues. Plus you get 5 extra songs.
Insanity I tell you.

[semisynthetic]

Some of the best packaged, best pressed, (sometimes pressed on fantastic quality wax) that I have in my collection are also Bootlegs.

During the late 1980's, absolutely fantastic pressings of ROIO came out of Germany and Italy; very often, Italian ROIO are superior to commercial Italian pressings. I look for a small comment in the bottom of the reverse of the Italian jacket; if it says "a private pressing", and is a common or apparently commercial recording, it is almost always a higher quality ROIO.

[olan]

Some of the best packaged, best pressed, (sometimes pressed on fantastic quality wax) that I have in my collection are also Bootlegs.

During the late 1980's, absolutely fantastic pressings of ROIO came out of Germany and Italy; very often, Italian ROIO are superior to commercial Italian pressings. I look for a small comment in the bottom of the reverse of the Italian jacket; if it says "a private pressing", and is a common or apparently commercial recording, it is almost always a higher quality ROIO.

Abso-fucking-lutely!

I needn't bang on about German (and/or Dutch SP3 bootlegs here). My favourite Loop LP is an Italian bootleg pressing. As for my pre-Spacement interests, my favourite New Order LP is also an Italian bootleg pressing from 1982 of a gig played at the Rolling Stone in Milan, then there are a raft of Dutch and German Joy Division and Smiths pressings....(Sigh! -happy days).

[BzaInSpace]

That article was quite interesting - I liked reading about the German pressing plant more than the vaguely hipster-ish proselytizing about the magical qualities of vinyl.

Have to say I found some the comments more insightful. Especially the real secret to great sound is ultimately a decent hi-fi set up, not the supposed 'warmth' from a piece of vinyl. Don't get me wrong, I love records and spent a good chunk of my income last year on them but a lot of it is pure fetishism, which record companies are very well aware of and a large part of the resurgence of vinyl sales is based on.

The comments also suggest it is Four Men With Beards that are pushing poor quality records with the fabled 180gm weight to somehow make up for shitty mp3-based transfer.

Elsewhere in the comments Music On Vinyl takes a bit of a kicking too, which I totally disagree with. All their reissues have been particularly high quality IMO.

[plastic37]

If anyone comes up with a new angle for the ubiquitous vinyl revival article let me know!
We can't be far off a CD revival.

The stuff about the album playback sessions reminded me of my grandfather who formed a music group in his village. Friends would visit each others homes for playback sessions. This would have been 1940s/50s. He had Leak equipment. The amp and tuner still work. I regularly listen to the radio on it.
He also made an box for transporting discs to fellow group members homes. I'll post pictures of it one day.

[davedecay]

I know a guy who has listening sessions at his place, him & 3 friends will each offer up an album or EP for the session.

[olan]

Years back when I lived in Australia I used to participate in the musical equivalent of a 'book of the month club' via a bulletin board. One person would recommend an album everybody else would d/l it, listen to it a couple of times, and then discuss the pros and cons of the record. Some of the banter was excellent so you did need a thick hide and not be too precious about your favourite LPs while they were ripped to ribbons . It seems to me in the Spotify age this is something that is easy enough to do.....

[PopeJez]

I had friends come over and we would get a little bit shit faced then drag out 12" records to play. After 30 minutes of picking great stuff it would always revert to picking the guilty pleasures instead (EMF, Jesus Jones, Happy Mondays etc). Utter stupid fun.

I agree with the journalist, vinyl can be good or bad. But I am really happy to have seen it almost die out (and so pleased that Jason stuck with it) and to see a new vinyl section appear in my Reading HMV store. I'm now flicking through the vinyl section like I did in the early 90's.

People buying any music in a physical format has got to be good for the artists.

[plastic37]

I like the "one track pass" approach to communal listening.
Each person plays a single track in turn. It really focuses the attention when you are trying to turn other people on to your passions/entertain.
It works well with non music YouTube clips too.

[plastic37]

If anyone comes up with a new angle for the ubiquitous vinyl revival article let me know!

I would love to read some confessions of a second hand record dealer. If anyone can point me to such articles I'd appreciate it.

One of the most interesting aspects of my music consumption this year was deciding that 1000 records is enough for any man and that somewhere in the world someone else might really like to own something i haven't listened to myself for decades and holds zero attachment. I reviewed everything prior to listing it on discogs and sent it on its merry way across the oceans.

As a result i have had a healthy paypal balance all year and treated myself to more records, really nice books ...everyday household stuff. All summer i sat at a really nice outdoor table that cost the exact price i sold a flexi disc for. Funny thing is that because the flexi had come free with two different fanzines i had ended up with two copies of it. I had never thought i'd enjoy selling records.

[spzretent]

4 Men With Beards? I bought the Funkadelic S/T Lp on that label and it does suck.
Buying Plain Lps is like buying expensive Cds.
Music On Vinyl? I love that label and own a lot of their reissues.
3x Screaming Trees
Mark Lanegan- Bubblegum
Primal Scream- Screamadelica
Lawless soundtrack
Dylan- Time Out Of Mind
" /The Band - Basement Tapes
Stranglers- Aural Sculpture
Mercury Rev- Boces
Dennis Wilson- Pacific Ocean Blue

I wish they would reissue everything. They are defintely worth the extra $$.

[runaway]

4 Men With Beards and Plain are basically the same company. All this talk has scared me off vinyl and I'm just waiting for it all to blow over.
p.s. just shelled out 150 bucks for a rare CD/DVD of Simple Minds' New Gold Dream.

[plastic37]

p.s. just shelled out 150 bucks for a rare CD/DVD of Simple Minds' New Gold Dream.

this comment led me to check the SM pages on Discogs.
I noted that the Early Years CD that i have seen on Amazon isn't listed.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Early-Years-197 ... arly+years

If you are the kind of guy who spends 150 on NGD its worth asking if you've got the above disc?

[spzretent]

Is the New Gold Dream CD you bought the SACD version? I know those go for $$$.

[runaway]

I don't have the Early Years release but it it looks very interesting.
I believe it is the sacd version, Japanese perhaps? I haven't yet received it - maybe I'll report on it in a CD enthusiasts thread!

[spzretent]

I had that until mty SACD played passed on to that great electronics graveyard in the sky.
I used to be quite the completist with SM.
Stupid question but do you have either of those recent 5x5 box sets? Some of the bonus tracks used to be impossible to track down. Particularly the 12" version of NGD here to fore only available on an Italian 12" and the b-side to the German I Travel 12" reissue.

[runaway]

I had that until mty SACD played passed on to that great electronics graveyard in the sky.
I used to be quite the completist with SM.
Stupid question but do you have either of those recent 5x5 box sets? Some of the bonus tracks used to be impossible to track down. Particularly the 12" version of NGD here to fore only available on an Italian 12" and the b-side to the German I Travel 12" reissue.

Don't have the recent box sets, they're hard to find too. I believe the NGD tracks in those are the same remasters that are on this disc I just bought (?). My obsession with NGD stems partly from the fact that the 2003 "remastered" version I have sounds pretty weak. The Hoffman forums are pretty much in agreement that this 2005 DVD version is the best sounding out there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351281221452

[plastic37]

I used to be quite the completist with SM.
Stupid question but do you have either of those recent 5x5 box sets?

No, i didn't buy it.
Seeing the discogs listing raised an eyebrow and of course made me wish i had but there were no new tracks i didn't have - just the odd version - notably the NGD extra tracks. I had picked up the early singles over the the years. When i got into them (1985 ish) it was still possible to buy everything (except 7"s) on Virgin from my local record shop. Over the course of a year or so i got everything that had a non lp track.
I remember doing my homework for the 5x5 gigs and marveling at how i have managed to keep those records in such good condition. And how they have sounded better as hi fi upgrades have come along. And how re buying something is still rebuying it even if it seems great value. I felt as though i was asserting authority over an addiction by not buying it.

My favourite Simple Minds extra is a couple of tiny snippets of extra music on the Astaria 12" of Celebrate/Changeling/I Travel. There's just a little extra intro/outro at one point but its totally new. I love that.

[spzretent]

Ooh! 5.1 Surround. I am not set up for that. Did all those CDs for SACD and 5.1 Surround formats go out of print?
I have an original UK Lp and Japanese Lp for NGD plus all the various colored vinyl.
As massive a fan as I was my go to record is still Sons/Sisters. Not quite as dreamy and lush as NGD but still sounds amazing all these years later.
It used to be so uncool to mention S Minds and now they are getting the love the deserve. They did make some timeless records. I will say anything post Sparkle I dont listen to at all. I bought the new one which is ok. Not sure where all these amazing reviews came from. Maybe I need to listen some more.

[plastic37]

and now they are getting the love the deserve.

Notably from Manic Street Preachers!
Apparently the reversed R on their record sleeves is a direct homage to Empires and Dance.

[plastic37]

another great article about vinyl.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/hot-stampe ... al_twitter

Makes some interesting points about the ascription of value to different pressings. It seems to be asserting that it is possible to tell the difference between every single disc from a print run, while different editions or remasters are totally unrecognisable from one another. The interviewee is totally down on remastered heavy weight stuff. Parallels are made with the discourses surrounding fine wines.

It reminded me of an interview with Stephen Fry i heard recently where he talks about the qualities of the moment when a recording is first heard as being the most magical ingredient of the experience. For him the fidelity of the sound was not important. The situation - the room, the company etc etc sealed in the memories and gave the experience its allure.

The article reminded me that i have many records that would only have been issued once.

[TheWarmth]

Here's some good news:

http://www.factmag.com/2015/03/03/vinyl ... ng-plants/

[BzaInSpace]

another great article about vinyl.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/hot-stampe ... al_twitter

Jesus. Some of the people in this article make even the maniacs at the Steve Hoffmann forum seems like mere dilettantes.

I just find this whole thing bizarre. And look at the albums they're talking about - Steely Dan's Aja? Blood Sweat and Tears?

Those idiots are welcome to that crap, 'white hot press special' or not.

There's a point where this elitist, financially-motivated record-collecting bullshit gets outta hand and these guys have way passed the point of no return: one could argue that Tom Port is "out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct..."

It reminded me of an interview with Stephen Fry i heard recently where he talks about the qualities of the moment when a recording is first heard as being the most magical ingredient of the experience. For him the fidelity of the sound was not important. The situation - the room, the company etc etc sealed in the memories and gave the experience its allure.

Fry nails it really. In the end, this trainspottery stuff has little do with actually enjoying and engaging with the music.

Read that part of the interview about Port's "shootouts" with various pressings of albums - that's not enjoying music, that's being part of a fucking focus group.

Some of the best music I've ever heard has been on 40+ year old vinyl shredded to bits, crappy nth generation cassette dubs and via a bad FM reception taped to mono by accident. Some of the best music ever made had virtually no production applied whatsoever. Sometimes when I've heard a remastered and reissued album after getting to know and love it as a crappy bootleg it no longer has the same effect. Set and setting and situation are everything.

The actual vinyl pressing? Not so much.

IMO.

[plastic37]

Those idiots are welcome to that crap, 'white hot press special' or not.

There's a point where this elitist, financially-motivated record-collecting bullshit gets outta hand and these guys have way passed the point of no return: one could argue that Tom Port is "out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct..."

Yeah, i can imagine a Buzzfeed/Daily Mash pisstake article about the whole thing.

Did you check the inventory on Tom Port's website? Almost a parody in itself with many Dire Straits lps included. And they would have been runs of 100's of thousands.

Neverthless, with the way that music culture works i think we will see an amplification of both positions. It would have been good if the Wired article had presented the opposing view. To me the word audiophile should or could cover both takes on listening experience. Or maybe there is a better word for those who go for content/set/setting over optimum clarity - audiopunk?

While i'm with you Bza, I would like to attend one of these hi end playback sessions one day.

[spzretent]

I like my vinyl but this is sad. This guy also seems like a bit of an asshole laughing all the way to a six figure income.

[BzaInSpace]

Yeah, i can imagine a Buzzfeed/Daily Mash pisstake article about the whole thing.

Did you check the inventory on Tom Port's website? Almost a parody in itself with many Dire Straits lps included. And they would have been runs of 100's of thousands.

Neverthless, with the way that music culture works i think we will see an amplification of both positions. It would have been good if the Wired article had presented the opposing view. To me the word audiophile should or could cover both takes on listening experience. Or maybe there is a better word for those who go for content/set/setting over optimum clarity - audiopunk?

While i'm with you Bza, I would like to attend one of these hi end playback sessions one day.

Ah, those undisputed masters of production genius - Dire Straits. Pff...

I'm down with audiopunk. Damn right!

If it was the right album I'd agree. The way those guys talk about it it sounds like a chore though. I'd also argue after listening to the same record over and over again in a single sessions your ears would be fatigued and stuff.

[semisynthetic]

That "hot stampers" article was complete shit.

I refuse to have someone give the Imperial thumbs up or down based on their system and all the rest of it. I have NEVER seen anyone "froth" their recording on their turntable like a Drive-thru Car wash! Just the opposite is better for the disc unless it is already crap or was found in an incredibly filthy state and Hope Springs Eternal that it may be saved!

A quality pressing needs only the slightest bit of moisture and a minimal and careful brush to remove contaminant dust and attenuate static. (In my opinion).

It was the "long way 'round the barn" excuse for an explanation to simply say that for various reasons some pressings or recordings have become sometimes very expensive; but not because of that self-indulgent $elf-appointed record guru.

I have splurged, but certainly not for the weak reasons given in that article.

[mc]

Followed links from the Fact piece on the unearthed vinyl pressing machines, and ended up on this useful article:

http://www.factmag.com/2015/03/03/how-t ... ds-online/

[semisynthetic]

Followed links from the Fact piece on the unearthed vinyl pressing machines, and ended up on this useful article:

http://www.factmag.com/2015/03/03/how-t ... ds-online/

Thank You mc!

This is very useful indeed; I do not have Photoshop, but I do have a similar program; if that "beautiful sheen" is not real, you can easily see even the smallest problems IF THE PHOTO IS A CLEAR one, like the one used in the article. When I saw a recording I really wanted, the photo that accompanied the ad was a blur - and that tends to mean "skip this recording"; the fellow sent a better but still unclear photo (during which time he had agreed to hold the disc for me for 1 day, and during that one day he tried to sell the recording for $4000 to another collector- [my price was half that!] - I know, who ONLY by coincidence that this other collector sent me an email to warn me this clown, for this "dealer" he had received the solicitation from was a crook he had learned from yet someone else months earlier! It does show the importance of Honesty, and how a bad reputation does not simply vanish; as soon as this dishonest person "reappeared", I received the other collector's email, it was sort of weird, really, but certain types of recordings no doubt have a specific and limited audience.

Anyway, I was able, even with the less than ideal photo to show the would be seller that the disc was no where close to his description - (after I sent the collector who warned me that this guy was bad news). Usually I receive very clear photos that show the true nature of condition of a disc; but for those photos from people I don't know, or they do not properly photograph, I use this method, and avoid buying unaccceptable recordings.

I JUST received an enormous digital image of a great Danish rarity, and it looks essentially new from 1968; I did not use this method on the image, it was an honest depiction of a the Pristine disc I just bought looks; he has a very expensive camera to yield "question free" images; I usually take this fellow at his word anyway, I have learned I can, since he is as particular as I am; (I just think he enjoys producing these wonderful images)! I had hoped to use his image along with this "Photoshop like" method to show another example than just the article, but the image was just to huge for my computer to deal with; and HAL froze up.

This was a FANTASTIC ARTICLE and thanks to "mc" for posting it. I feel embarrassed that I never thought to point this method out, but I can assure you at least, that it is valid. Not all bad photos are bad recordings, but a beautifully photographed disc, at numerous angles and directly on in ideal light is what you should receive from a serious collector or dealer. Once I receive the disc, it is viewed under a stereomicroscope and ANY microscopic flaws are exposed.

More and more I tend to obtain the more Obscure (and generally more costly) recordings from people I have learned I can trust; which is a relatively small universe of 2 dozen or so from around the world, and often only after many years and purchases. This method, that "mc" has shared will save many of you a lot of disappointment, and it will not take years!