Mark Kozelek / Sun Kil Moon - "Benji"

[mojo filters]

Until a couple of days ago I don't think I'd ever heard of Mark Kozelek or Sun Kil Moon, nor consciously listened to their music. That changed when I was browsing the Guardian website and by chance clicked through to an article written by Lucy Snoop (or similar, a name I vaguely recognized related to music journalism). She told the story of how she had ended up becoming the subject of a half-finished song with somewhat disparaging lyrics directed at her. Well I was really more interested in the artist in question, as opposed to Lara Snark or whoever the journalist is.

I was intrigued by an artist who will only conduct interviews via email. This made more sense and seemed less pretentious when I found out why. He's stated that he doesn't want interviewers quoting him using works like "dunno". I quite sympathize there - whilst I have only been interviewed once or twice, I remember how shocked I was when many years ago I was interviewed for some obscure thing on Radio 4. I hated how I sounded, I had no idea that I spoke so badly - punctuating my speech with phrases like "you know" as well as "umms", "aahs" and guttural sounds - all of which really devalued the meaning of what I was saying.

Hence I sympathized with someone else who wanted to plan and prepare responses that could end up in the public domain. I was also impressed with the fervent debate at the bottom of the website page. Guardian comments so often descend into rude slanging matches, but this one didn't. Lily Sneak (or whatever) had already piqued my interest in Mark Kozelek's work by describing how his songwriting style had evolved to a rather dramatic unfiltered verse, unencumbered by use of metaphor and other figurative stylistic devices. It sounded fascinating and from the volume of comments this provoked I had to explore further. I'm glad I did.

First I found this impressive piece of concert footage:


Lizy Snake (or whoever) had managed to find some nice things to write about the recent Sun Kil Moon album Benji (after she'd finished whinging about getting some grief for poking about and intruding somewhere she shouldn't have). A brief bit of research backed up this recommendation, so I took the plunge.

I honestly couldn't say now what I was expecting, but I was completely blown away by Benji. The unfiltered narrative lyrics combined with the intense, close-mic'd vocals were so unexpectedly compelling. The overarching haunting quality of the music only further serves to draw the listener ever closer into Mark Kozelek's sometimes banal, sometimes poignant, but always touching stories. I can't think of another artist who manages to not just arrest my attention, but involuntarily involves me by entwining his deepest feelings with my own. I certainly didn't recognize the insensitive brute Loopy Snook seemingly described.

So ever since I've been listening to Benji several times a day. However I'm struggling to decide what to get next. Mark Kozelek has such a prodigious back catalogue, but having hunted the net for reviews I still can't decide what else from such a varied body of work to try. I get the impression whatever I choose, it probably won't be as impressive as Benji. So I'm really keen to solicit advice from folks on this place, as it's normally such a good resource for finding new music.

I get the impression that while Mark Kozelek can divide opinion - not only with his music but also his sometimes unusual behaviour such as on stage, interacting with audiences - I'm not the first person to find his work deeply effecting and unusually inspiring. As an erstwhile if not particularly productive musician and songwriter myself - I tried writing some lyrics in the casual reportage style of the songs on Benji. It was incredibly difficult. I hadn't realized how much I relied on imagery and figurative language as a shield behind which to hide my own insecurities. I'm quite taken with the bravery of baring all your innermost thoughts and feelings, without recourse to the sheltering filter of emotions such as reticence and embarrassment.

If it helps, I also enjoyed a clip from the Jimmy Fallon show with MK playing an older song called Mistress with The Roots backing him up. I guess that was from his previous band, and his electric guitar style was impressively different to the nylon-strung tones that apparently dominate his more recent output.

Finally if anyone is reading this but like me hadn't heard of Sun Kil Moon / Mark Kozelek - I recommend at least giving the concert clip linked above a serious listen with decent quality sound. I was surprised how he barely featured when I searched this site. I was especially surprised since he can apparently sell out the 1900 seat Barbican concert hall. I hope there's some better informed fans reading this who can give me some advice!

[James T]

The only thing I am surprised about regard Koz is that it has taken so long for this to come out about him. He regularly makes highly questionable remarks about a whole range of things, on his last tour he performed a sogn about wanting to "fuck" a teenage girl who worked in Nandos (chicken place in UK/SA/AUS) but she wouldn't.

I met him and he was nice, I have mutual friends with him (one of who is playing drums on the very clip you posted) who talk highly of him as a person and as a colleague, but he clearly has some complex issues going on which cause him to act in a certain way at times. He is an incredibly awkward and unusual person when it comes to his relationship with fans, the public, and journalists. Plenty of acts have made awful comments and don't have to put up with what he is right now though, I really think he is kicking against them and deliberately making it worse.

There is no defended a lot of his behaviour, but one thing can be said is that he has an absolutely outstanding catalogue of releases of which I love almost all of it.

[runaway]

The first three Red House Painters albums are essential. I don't have Benji yet but have been meaning to get it, and thanks for reminding me to do so.
I'm just a little bit amused by all the recent hype regarding his personal behavior, nothing more.

[mojo filters]

Maybe I was slightly star-struck on discovering such inspirational new music. However it seemed to me like Laura Snape made far too big a deal of his justifiable reaction to her deliberate and relentless pursuit of his friends, family and musical collaborators (because he wouldn't adhere to her own expectations of him).

If folks know other folks involved and have felt obliged to form an opinion, I can only respect those opinions - I couldn't possibly contradict. Is it not perhaps possible that 30+ years scraping a living as an artist, on top of some pretty heavy experiences growing up, at least gives the artist the benefit of standing on higher ground? If you then choose to abuse such a position, well that would be the time to start asking questions.

All reports from regular audience members at the Barbican gig indicated they never even caught her name, when it was referenced. So to hear her state it made her feel sick when her mate/colleague from Uncut told her about it, rings about as hollow as David Cameron saying the idea of European Court of Human Rights decision that UK prisoners should get the vote turns his apparently conveniently easily-discomforted stomach.

I've had a lot more success writing about music than I've had making it. However I take exception to some presumptuous, entitled journalist mistaking her job as equally or more important, compared with that of an artist.

Music journalism and music making is not a "chicken and egg" type scenario. If all the music journalists died in a convenient-yet-unlikely natural disaster tomorrow - would that affect the behaviour of artists who believed in their art?

[mc]

Irrespective of whether Laura Snapes overstepped her bounds in pursuing material for an article, for Kozelek to publically ad-lib a very unpleasant sexual song about her (regardless of whether her name was easily audible or not) not once but at least twice is deeply disreprectful, downright nasty and hugely out of proportion. The world has far too many misogynist wankers spouting nonsense about 'getting in line to fuck me, bitches' as it is. Or was it supposed to be an "ironic" joke? Well, fuck irony. I haven't heard any of Kozelek's music, but everything I've read about him (previous audience incidents, the War On Drugs debacle) makes him sound like the kind of self-obsessed, precious, egotist fuckwit I can do without in life. Laura made a mistake; she didn't deserve public humiliation. The minute you start thinking you're superior than everybody else, you're lost. A difficult childhood and an adult life spent as a struggling artist does not give you free license to be an asshat. Can you not feel at least a little empathy for Laura's position? Obviously not; you called her "Sneak", "Snoop" and "Snake". How kind. Public shaming: it's so very 2015, isn't it?

[mojo filters]

So he's been performing a song live about wanting to fuck some girl who works in a cheap chicken restaurant? What's the issue?

When you strip back the metaphor, similie and all other flowery figurative language - how different is the essence of such a song to say the Beatles classic I Want You, or numerous other well known love songs where the protagonists' intent is shrouded in language that fuzzies up the picture, instead of bringing it sharply into focus?

I think an argument can be made that it is the music press who are ill-equipped to deal with Mark Kozelek's direct narrative style, which he's taken on and innovated as a songwriter - as opposed to his behaviour being in some way actually shocking and unnecessary? Furthermore if it can be described as shocking and unnecessary - why is it that the audience has to change their expectations?

I'm only playing devils advocate here. Yet it seems like the music press want to make out they've found some fundamental character flaw - because that's the simple solution that doesn't require anyone in the audience to readjust their stale expectations...

Of course Mark Kozelek may just be a bit of a twat, who happens to also have some musical talent. Having heard the War on Drugs repost and read a transcript of the lyric - it's self evidently ironic, as is much of his other "controversial" behaviour. Though I concede others will interpret it differently, as they will the overreaction to Loopy Snooper taking offense when she overstepped the privacy boundaries.

Yes, I inflected my original post with jokey disrespect aimed squarely at Laura Snape. If she was so apparently shocked and affected, how come she was just fine when it came to filing copy that would inevitably raise her own profile? I suggest the answer is that at the end of the day she knows which side her proverbial bread is buttered. If it was so traumatic, how come she could bear to write about it?

To be honest I don't really care about Guardianistas or chicken shop staff, when there's interesting music in the air. Pretentious music writers have been given too many opportunities that make them think they have the right to make and change the weather ... instead they should take a reality check, stick a finger in the air and find out for themselves which way the wind has been blowing while they were too busy not looking...

[mc]

I'm not talking about his songwriting process, his stripping back of metaphor, songs about waitresses or anything like that. I'm talking about publically humiliating somebody in that tired old misogynist "you must wanna fuck me, baby" manner. She made a mistake, that's all. He could've told her via email to "never contact me again, you've overstepped your bounds" or something like that. Y'know, something dignified. And why should she remain silent about being shamed in such a manner? Whether this was a truly traumatic incident for her or not, you obviously haven't got a fucking clue what real trauma is if you think "if it's bad, you shouldn't be able to write about it".* Just be quiet, you pretentious female journalist: you obviously deserved the abuse, because it came from an ARTIST with a direct narrative style that confounds audience expectations. Sheesh. I'm well aware that others will think differently about this; I'm stripping all the baggage away and looking at this as an interaction between two human beings. Person one makes a mistake and oversteps private bounds; the other person indulges in a spot of sexual public humiliation. Not good in my book, no matter how great a (pretentious?) ARTIST he or she might be.

*Mental illness; sudden death; terminal illness; miscarriages; sexual abuse; physical and verbal abuse suffered by LGBT people around the world; slaughter; genocide; the list could go on forever. Are these traumatic? Should nobody write about them? Just internalise all the pain and stress and anguish and just get on with it? This incident is obviously chicken-feed in comparison, but the logic remains.

[spzretent]

Totally agree with you mc.

"To be honest I don't really care about Guardianistas or chicken shop staff, when there's interesting music in the air."

This sentence made me sick to my stomach.

It's all good if makes an interesting tune. How totally fucked up.

[mc]

I am so, so tired of irony in modern culture. Everybody's so fucking cool and detached and cynical about the world and nothing means anything any more. Misogyny, racism, rape jokes, homophobia etc: "I'm being ironic, man. It's just banter". Utterly sick and tired of it all. And on that cheerful note, to bed.

[mojo filters]

I think I've done a fine job of mis-representing my own opinion. I've no sympathy with cynical misogynist sentiment - I agree it is essentially cruel and unnecessary. However it's also quite easy to demonise without knowing all the facts, and I'm certainly in no position to make such a determination in this case, I just thought there may be other factors worth exploring, beyond the record itself ... and I feel I've exhausted everything I have to say in that regard.

I probably mis-judged my ability to call the particular situation in question. One week ago I'd never heard of Mark Kozelek. In discovering his undeniable ability to write some of the most tender, loving and gentle lyrics that also acknowledge the gritty and unpleasant sentiments which go hand in hand with his unique way of telling stories, I guess I got far too caught up in recognising his take on a situation that arouses strong opinions.

It was probably not ideal that my introduction to this music got caught up with a controversy that clearly provokes strong feelings all around. Likewise I never intended to belittle genuine offence caused by an artist who I only know via a single recently discovered work. I can see why my attempt to fold the circumstances into my discovery are potentially misguided and liable to cause offence.

I still struggle to put this properly into perspective. I'm still caught up in the beauty, wonder and contradictions that make the album Benji such a notable find, that's given me so much pleasure I just never expected nor was prepared for!

Maybe it's best to divert this unnecessary direction back to the essence of my original post, minus the sarcasm. For those familiar with Mark Kozelek's work beyond the single album I've been enjoying - where would you suggest going next?

[mojo filters]

(snip)

It's all good if makes an interesting tune. How totally fucked up.

If you can make sense of everything going on around you, you're a better man than me.

As far as I can see there's very little out there that isn't fucked up to some degree or other. Sometimes parsing the difference don't seem worth the bother ... others are free to disagree.

[spzretent]

(snip)

It's all good if makes an interesting tune. How totally fucked up.

If you can make sense of everything going on around you, you're a better man than me.
.

How did we jump from your(in my opinion) disturbing sentence to my being able to make sense of everything? I'm lost.
I quoted you. You connected some invisible dots.

[heisenberg]

I loved all of the previous Sun kil Moon albums and most of the Red House Painters albums, and I'd argue that a lot of the guy's best work has been overlooked (April, for example). But I just can't understand the hype over Benji. To me it's just talking over fingerpicked guitar in a rambling, stream-of-consciousness style which begins to grate pretty quickly.

People seem to dig the directness and honesty of the new stuff. Admirable as all that is, I find it to be very dull musically and a huge step down from the great stuff he has put out before. He was starting to develop this new style on the previous album Among The Leaves, which was far warmer and had a good dose of self-deprecating humour (as well as tunes) to carry it through. Benji is a chore to listen to. It just makes me think of Pitchfork hipsters.

It's around the release of Benji that I gave up on him. Aside from the boring album, listening to a 50 year-old man singing about his sex life, slagging off other bands in a cringey and heavy-handed way, and being extremely misogynistic and vulgar on stage is just really undignified and embarrassing. I dont really have time to invest in such negativity, I'm afraid. Apparently the new album covers similar ground to Benji, except the songs are ten minutes long. Definitely not for me. To think this is the same guy who made Ghosts of the Great Highway and Rollercoaster. Oh well.

[clewsr]

Hi certainly sounds like a prick with issues.

My friend persuaded me to listen to Benji. Not for me.

The only thing I'd heard of his previously that I thoroughly enjoyed was his mini album of Bon Scott era AC/DC covers. Acoustically done he completely changed the songs and that mixture of familiarity and difference worked really well.

He seems to be lacking grace and humor that might be necessary to get away with the comments he is making. The War On Drugs insults sounded funny, but insulting that Journalist on stage sounds like someone disappearing up his own backside of self importance.

[mkb]

If she was so apparently shocked and affected, how come she was just fine when it came to filing copy that would inevitably raise her own profile? I suggest the answer is that at the end of the day she knows which side her proverbial bread is buttered. If it was so traumatic, how come she could bear to write about it?

This is a pretty disturbing and depressing post, but sadly an all-too common viewpoint when it comes female victims of male entitlement.

[runaway]

Men can be assholes but women can't be bitches?

[mojo filters]

I loved all of the previous Sun kil Moon albums and most of the Red House Painters albums, and I'd argue that a lot of the guy's best work has been overlooked (April, for example). But I just can't understand the hype over Benji. To me it's just talking over fingerpicked guitar in a rambling, stream-of-consciousness style which begins to grate pretty quickly.

(snip)

That's quite interesting to get such a different take on his changing style. I've by chance now managed to obtain April and listened to it several times. It's a beautiful album. The music and instrumentation is both more varied and more interesting than that on Benji. I love the production on tracks like "Tonight The Sky" where the distorted guitar complements the acoustic tones, to create an epic song with lyrics to match.

However "Tonight The Sky" is not quite representative of the whole album. April took several listens to properly appreciate. It certainly didn't grab my attention and hold it in the remarkably dramatic and unexpected way Benji managed to. In far too many places my attention just drifted - the music always perfectly lovely, but there all too often was nothing compelling about the lyrics. In many places they were little more than the obligatory human voice one expects to hear accompanying the lush, gentle layered guitar textures. I guess I was looking for the immediate intense narration that managed so effectively to capture my attention on my first listen to Benji, holding on right through to the end.

Just the process of typing this out has whetted my appetite to hear the familiar opening lines of "Carissa" while I contemplate whether the children of a tragically dead woman from Ohio are still carrying guilt, because one of them might have put an aerosol can in the trash - which exploded with such tragic consequences. The fact I actually care about someone from another country I'd never heard of one week ago and whom I'm never likely to meet, is surely a powerful testament to the strength of Mark Kozelek's lyrics on that song.

I'm now reluctant to pick up a guitar, as my short stubby fingers also stretch to an awkward shape sometimes when I play a barre chord! Thankfully I can take my mind off the prospect of collapsing in a fit, considering the humorous similarity of my current situation to that of one of Mark Kozelek's exquisite and delicately described childhood friend's current disposition, as described on Benji. Or I think back to when I first saw "The Song Remains The Same" and all the stuff that's changed since then, like my recurring gastro-intestinal problems, my fear of turning 40 and my depressing increasingly-diminished libido that significantly impacted on my last notable relationship.

I am sorry that nothing on April affected me so. It's strange that one person can be so strongly affected, yet others are reporting such contrasting responses, but still acknowledge their appreciation for Mark Kozelek's other material.

The resonant sentiments chime so disconcertantly with where I am right now. Have I been been emotionally blindsided by an artist, who's poignant lyrics struck so close to an uncomfortable home? When one develops such a personal relationship with such a remarkable work so fast, it's inevitable these things not only divide opinion but prejudice one to discard anything remotely distasteful, in favour of that which I was impressed by and recognized. It's probably sufficient to skew judgement to a degree, but I would not want to imply it excused judgement calls made in haste which could be liable to cause offence to others.

[James T]

In regards to the War on Drugs thing, one of them was a total dick with him privately from what I can gather which is what resulted in his (what I believe is kinda funny and fair game) public joking around. TWOD are really lame anyway.

Wanting to "fuck" someone from a chicken place is fine, the way (and where) you talk about it means a lot.

[spzretent]

In regards to the War on Drugs thing, one of them was a total dick with him privately from what I can gather which is what resulted in his (what I believe is kinda funny and fair game) public joking around. TWOD are really lame anyway.


Wanting to "fuck" someone from a chicken place is fine, the way (and where) you talk about it means a lot.

I think you have nailed it here James. He seems to be lacking a filter between his thoughts and what would make good art.
I never knew much about MK until I read that piece attached to your FB page a few weeks ago. It seems it isn't just his songs but his abusive banter that turns people off.

Isn't it possible he brought the poor treatment from WOD on himself with said lack of filter. Who knows what he said to get that reaction.
Side note I really enjoyed the last two WOD albums(opnion).

[James T]

Even when I saw him about 5 years ago he made a remark about how he hates England and the crowds in England and he was only there because we pay the most.

[spzretent]

Gotta be tough liking a guy like this who seems to enjoy burning bridges and being a misogynistic pig.

[mojo filters]

I found this short yet insightful interview online. It was conducted just after Benji came out:

 "I wonder how that all happens, how we end up on such different paths. Things don’t just blow by me."

That may be a pretty prosaic observation at first glance. Yet to my perhaps-naive mind, it encapsulates his ability to casually juxtapose the everyday with the unusual and extraordinary - rendering the resulting confluence so colourfully into simple and ragged phrases ... with such stark realism, exposed in its simplicity and superficial triviality. All the while he grabs the listener's attention, through smartly chosen subject matter combined with direct, merciless diction.

Once again (and apologies, I fear I'm beating a tired drum here) I like how his songwriting on Benji has dramatically evolved - from conventional layers of metaphor, imagery and whimsy that have been so well-travelled. All of which could be said to confuse and diffuse the meaning of the traditional singer-songwriter's craft, instead of complimenting it. By choosing the direct unfiltered route, Mark Kozelek brings a fresh immediacy to lyrics and their context. Frequently this contrasts the lyric's sharp tone with his soft and gentle melodies, via the strumming or finger-picking of a nylon-strung guitar.

I'm gonna keep this post short, as I don't want to end up sounding like the irritating online equivalent of guys in tennis shoes, to borrow shamelessly from Mark's own lexicon.

I'm not attempting to apologize for, or justify any extraneous offence that might have been caused. Any questions raised can only be answered by Mark Kozelek himself. I don't believe the creation of an amazing album goes in any way to excuse or ameliorate other negative stuff folks have encountered. I doubt he would want anyone to attempt such. He appears big and ugly enough to take care of that kind of business himself, should he feel so obliged or inclined. But at the end of the day Ben's My Friend, Mark just had some questions - he never put any flammables in the trash.

[olan]

I tend to apply a simple rule: Trust the art, not the artist. No further comment is necessary....

[niamhm]

I tend to apply a simple rule: Trust the art, not the artist. No further comment is necessary....

I`m with you almost 100%, but some folk don`t half make it hard for you to like them.

[BzaInSpace]

Me too. Unfortunately having never heard of this chump and any of the music he's made, reading this depressing thread means I'll never probably bother.

Why?

Art is long, life is short

There are literally endless records I need to hear (and even own!) which I need to find a proper time to listen to - the misanthropic ravings of an overweight loser with "lady issues" comes nowhere close to stuff I want to seek out.

[clewsr]

sounds like an entirely sensible approach bza.

[runaway]

sounds like an entirely sensible approach bza.

I was hoping this was sarcasm but I fear it's not.

[mc]

Meh. I'm definitely with Bza on this one. Maybe I'll hear some of MK's work one day, but it's not something I'm going to seek out. I expect he actively wouldn't want me as a listener, TBH...

[clewsr]

sounds like an entirely sensible approach bza.

I was hoping this was sarcasm but I fear it's not.

Come on then runaway, lets hear your enlightened thoughts on 21st century Misogynists in Rock and why one should waste time listening to their dreary ditties. No, really, I am interested.

[runaway]

Never been a fan of name-calling, or believing what the commercial media wants to feed me this week. I just listen to the music.

[clewsr]

On the whole I share your opinion. But in terms of the name calling it is fair to say Kozelek started it.

The music of his I have heard of his does not inspire me in the slightest and there is a lot of music out there to listen to.

Not that silly to move along and find someone more interesting in that context.

[runaway]

[jack white]

http://www.stereogum.com/1860563/stream ... y-ep/mp3s/

[heisenberg]

http://www.stereogum.com/1860563/stream ... y-ep/mp3s/

Absolutely hilarious! Nailed it!

[clewsr]

Enjoyed it more than Benji!

[runaway]

Too funny.
But the new Jesu/Sun Kil Moon album is really good.