ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

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The Dr
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ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

Embarrassing.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

To be fair, I think he was taller than the rest of them.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by burningwheel »

So sad. This sucks. Time hasn't been kind to him either, looks old as fuck. Should have stopped smoking years ago
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by burningwheel »

People used to think Mac was arrogant, Ashcroft goes way beyond and is pissing on his legacy it's depressing af
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

burningwheel wrote:People used to think Mac was arrogant, Ashcroft goes way beyond and is pissing on his legacy it's depressing af

though to be fair ashcroft was trying to hang around with kids whilst mac was high on coke beating up a woman in a toilet

could you argue that the bunnymen got better with their forst 4 albums- croc, heaven up here, porcupine, ocean rain whilst the verve got worse storm, norhetn, urban , the imagintaively entitield 4th- almost the same name as the 4th one direction album, four?


ps there's an amusing anacdote of mccullch forgeting to remove a condom and urinating in it and it exploded and he ran around thinking his penis had just exploded
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

The Dr wrote:ps there's an amusing anacdote of mccullch forgeting to remove a condom and urinating in it and it exploded and he ran around thinking his penis had just exploded
Well, we've all done that at one point, right?
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by simonkeeping »

In 1000 years the history books will show that robert Fryer was right: chris martin...david gray...bono..and richard ashcroft were all his favorites.

Great to see also so many people who have been asleep since 1997 pop up and start posting comments on that youtube video. He's the man, genius etc etc. Although my favorite comment would have to be: paulkazjack: Just him on a chair with a guitar would have been fine.
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mc
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by mc »

Err, I don't really know what to say right now... :shock:

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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

mc wrote:Err, I don't really know what to say right now... :shock:

Oh dear.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by mc »

heisenberg wrote:
Oh dear.
I can't stop watching. It's so funny...
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by angelsighs »

that is just horrific. absolutely horrific. at first, I thought it was a joke that someone had made themselves. at least, unlike the Roses, it's not directly shitting on the legacy of The Verve.

I'm just gonna forget his solo career exists now.
he's not the first singer to have a crap solo career. time to move on :lol:
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by simonkeeping »

mc wrote:Err, I don't really know what to say right now... :shock:


Erm, to be honest I have a few questions about this:

Is this real?

What does he start doing Alan Partridge 'air strings'?

Why is he using a gas mask as an accessory?

If someone can clear these up I'd very much appreciate it.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

simonkeeping wrote:
Why is he using a gas mask as an accessory?

If someone can clear these up I'd very much appreciate it.

it's profound! 8)
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

His new song 'This is how it feels' actually sounded ok as an acoustic song when he performed it on Radio 2, albeit it was about 3 minutes too long. The song 'Hold On' is beyond saving though. Sounds like a 1990s boyband album track.. And those videos are the sort of thing where you feel sorry for his kids.

He'd maybe go halfway to redeeming himself if he released a stripped-down album of mostly acoustic strummy songs (because that's his forte) and banned himself from using 'yeah heh, uh huh' ad libs every two seconds in his music.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by moop »

heisenberg wrote:The song 'Hold On' is beyond saving though.
Hodor!
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by mc »

I thought it was a fan-made joke at first too. Then I saw the link to it on his website :shock:
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by BzaInSpace »

Surely not... :shock:

Not a fan of the Verve at all really but this is so bad it's almost amazing. Wow.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by niamhm »

I think the gas mask alludes to the `Tear gas and pepper spray, water cannon`s on the way` lyric in Hold On.
Heard it on 6Music yesterday and Radio 2 today, good radio song, think I`m starting to like it. :lol:
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

moop wrote: Hodor!
This video would benefit from some pictures of Hodor inserted at the appropriate times, I think.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by moop »

heisenberg wrote:This video would benefit from some pictures of Hodor inserted at the appropriate times, I think.
yup, that and some well-timed cries of 'Hodor!'
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

Isn't the guy who plays Hodor a DJ in his free time? Should've got him to have a stab at a remix.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by moop »

he is! i can imagine him freestyle-Hodoring over the top. it'd be a bit like this.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

http://www.nme.com/news/richard-ashcroft/93606

Ashcroft live 'comeback' review and footage of the new songs- and yes the gas mask. maybe he is just too honest about what he feels about his new music?

Later in the set, Ashcroft thanked the crowd for being patient with the new material. “Next time you hear this, there will be a room full of people singing 'These People,” he said after performing the title track to his new record, before he added: “But until then it is just another guy singing a new song.”

But there were huge cheers when he performed classic hit singles by The Verve, which at one point saw Ashcroft perform 'The Drugs Don't Work' during a short acoustic section which also included his 2000 debut single 'Song For The Lovers'.
Last edited by The Dr on Fri May 20, 2016 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
The Dr
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

BzaInSpace wrote:
Not a fan of the Verve at all really .

no verve but the new stone roses?! WTF!? :roll: :P 8) :wink: :lol:
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by BzaInSpace »

As though the two were mutually inclusive you mean?
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

BzaInSpace wrote:As though the two were mutually inclusive you mean?
seems so. you seemed to be getting stick for liking the new stone roses single and, as this is pretty much verve central... :wink:
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by burningwheel »

niamhm wrote:I think the gas mask alludes to the `Tear gas and pepper spray, water cannon`s on the way` lyric in Hold On.
Heard it on 6Music yesterday and Radio 2 today, good radio song, think I`m starting to like it. :lol:
Or he stole the idea from a black submarines video
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

Ashcroft, do you think you will be bigger than the Verve?

"yeah heh, uh huh. Yeah heh, uh huh"
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by natty »

Oh my word, it's absolute bum gravy.

He's nothing without McCabe.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by toomilk »

I saw the album at a record store today. Has anyone here picked it up? Is it as bad as I think it is?
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by angelsighs »

natty wrote:
He's nothing without McCabe.
I don't think it's as simple as that. McCabe may have been able to add his guitar wizardry to this, but it would still be a bobbins song.

I think the truth is that Ashcroft shot his songwriting bolt many moons ago and no amount of spacerock guitars are gonna change that (although it may ameliorate it a little :) ). he seems unwilling or unable to develop his basic songwriting style. when's the last time he learnt a new chord ?? or wrote a middle eight??

and not to slay a sacred cow but I think McCabe's truly transcendent days are behind him too. Black Submarine was just.. okay. some good moments, but compared to the likes of Reprise or Gravity Grave?

every musician has their peak. I guess what gets people's backs up about Ashcroft is his ego is actually bigger than ever.

I don't want to hear the full album as I am sure it's as bad as expected. none of the reviews are indicating there's any surprises. it's funny though, on twitter i've seen some fans/#LADS say stuff like "best album ever", "legend" etc. how bad would an album have to be for them to abandon him?

he's just announced gigs at the London O2 and Liverpool Arena with an orchestra. a bit ambitious in terms of bums on seats, no? I do reckon the big Verve hits would sound great with proper strings actually. I think Song For The Lovers is a good song too.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spunder »

toomilk wrote:I saw the album at a record store today. Has anyone here picked it up? Is it as bad as I think it is?
I downloaded a leak a few weeks ago for the LOLz but haven't tortured my ears with it yet. may pluck up courage this weekend :-)
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

I've probably said this before, but ... generally, I don't believe in artists ruining their legacies. It doesn't really bother me that the Stones haven't released anything worthwhile since the 70s, for example. However, Ashcroft is the one instance where I struggle with this. I put on "XXYY" recently to remind myself that he actually did have some great solo tracks when the Verve first split. Obviously, Storm and ANS are still great, but everytime I play those records, the first fucking thing that comes into my head is, "how did Ashcroft become so terrible?" That is a serious bummer. Ashcroft and the Verve were big heroes of mine in high school and college. Now you can't utter Ashcroft's name without people snickering, and for good reason.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spacemanrich »

The " sum of the parts doesn't equal the whole " that's the way I look at it. I only bought his first solo album and it was just " okay " and never bothered with the Black Submarines. Same thing with Ride. Funhouse (Mark Gardner) or Hurricane #1 (Andy Bell) anyone ?

Aren't those big venues i.e. - London 02 and Liverpool Arena ? Can he fill those seats ?
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

Animalhouse, you mean. I have that album on cd. Haven't listened to it in ages, but I remember being pretty into it when it came out. I should go back to it.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

i think the verve was the coming together of two people at their peak who fed off one another and then without the other the music suffered. how many who go solo of songwriting teams match or better the previous work? lennon/mccartney? seargent/mccullcoh? richards/jagger? morrissey/marr? etc, the one exception album would be, for me, candleland by ian mcculloch- a staggeringly beautiful album but his other solo stuff or will's solo stuff can;t touch the bunnies
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spacemanrich »

Your right, it is Animal house. I'll admit and say that I did buy the single and album when it came out and didn't like it all. I think I might still have it ? Never bothered with Hurricane #1 - someone said it's an Oasis ripoff.

Funny thing, I'm just reading excerpts and certain chapters of the Creation book right now and it mentioned that they did an advert of Hurricane #1 in the Sun and basically that killed the band being that the Sun is a right wing rag of some sort ?
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

I bought the debut singles by Hurricane #1 and the Seahorses at the same time, which was in 1997, I believe. Both were disappointments. I wanted to love those bands, but they didn't deliver. They also had tough competition, as that was the year that L&GWAFIS, Radiator (SFA) and OK Computer were released.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by niamhm »

TheWarmth wrote:I bought the debut singles by Hurricane #1 and the Seahorses at the same time, which was in 1997, I believe. Both were disappointments. I wanted to love those bands, but they didn't deliver. They also had tough competition, as that was the year that L&GWAFIS, Radiator (SFA) and OK Computer were released.
Really? I still get a buzz from hearing the full version of Love Is The Law, a few good track on The Seahores album miles better than the new `Roses song.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spzretent »

The Dr wrote:i think the verve was the coming together of two people at their peak who fed off one another
I totally disagree with this. Verve was 4 guys hanging out, getting stoned, living and breathing their music and all hitting their peak with their first 2 1/2 records. Especially live.
They practiced, toured and lived together long before ASIH. The sound Nick McCabe created live was unlike anything I had ever seen before or since but you cannot discount what Simon Jones and Pete Salisbury brought to the table. They were the backbone.
Some bands are like shooting stars. They just aren't meant to be around forever. In this case it was 3 albums.
What RA has done since gets more embarassing with each release. It seems his ego is getting bigger too. He better brace himself for quite a fall after booking arena shows.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

spzretent wrote: I totally disagree with this. Verve was 4 guys hanging out, getting stoned, living and breathing their music and all hitting their peak with their first 2 1/2 records. Especially live.
They practiced, toured and lived together long before ASIH. The sound Nick McCabe created live was unlike anything I had ever seen before or since but you cannot discount what Simon Jones and Pete Salisbury brought to the table. They were the backbone.
.
sure, i agree. i was just going off the rest of the thread focusing of ashcroft/mccabe. the same way that the velets could not have been the velevets without tuckers drums etc or the bunnies without pete and les or the beatles without ringo's brilliant drumming (giggles) etc
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spzretent »

First, all songs are credited to The Verve. That is all four of them unlike the Velvets and The Beatles. You can throw in the Stones too.
I did spend a lot of time around them on their first two US tours and honestly, RA seemed the odd one out. He was very much the mouth while the others were more reserved. They were interested in record shopping and not being the spokesman for the band.
So for about 5 years they created some amazing music that seems to be a footnote in 90's rock. It isn't like new people are getting turned onto them. The people who are into them are really, really into them.
I will base that on the amount of those ASIH triple lps I have sold.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by angelsighs »

spzretent wrote:... you cannot discount what Simon Jones and Pete Salisbury brought to the table. They were the backbone.
Some bands are like shooting stars. They just aren't meant to be around forever. In this case it was 3 albums.
agree with all of this (I would say that there is some great stuff on Forth too, though and the gigs showed they still had it).

gotta disagree on couple of other points though. some songs on Urban Hymns are credited to 'Richard Ashcroft' (unless you're choosing to disregard that record as a true Verve one?)

I think it's a bit harsh to call them a footnote, too. their legacy hasn't been maintained that well (which hopefully the upcoming reissues should fix a bit) but it's important not to forget just how huge Urban Hymns was. that ginormous mainstream breakthrough still hasn't quite dissipated and I am sure they are getting some new fans (even if not many of them necessarily go and work back towards ASIH). they played stadiums on the reunion tour.

really interesting firsthand points about their various personalities. Ashcroft does across as much more extroverted than the others. but that's part of what made him such a great frontman (and also what made them stand out from the shoegaze bands of the time) there's also stories of in the early days, him literally being a catalyst and pushing them along when the others were much more laidback. but I guess it's that classic story of the very evident musical chemistry not managing to fix the personality clashes.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by spzretent »

angelsighs wrote:
gotta disagree on couple of other points though. some songs on Urban Hymns are credited to 'Richard Ashcroft' (unless you're choosing to disregard that record as a true Verve one?)

I think it's a bit harsh to call them a footnote, too. their legacy hasn't been maintained that well .
I am guilty of only looking at ASIH and ANS for credits so I stand corrected. Footnote may be harsh yes. Agreed there as well.
As I was listening to ANS last night, as good as that record is, I noticed Richard's vocals mixed way higher up and a slicker sound. That was the beginning of the end for me. Especially when we had a magical Spiritualized record signing in my shop and we mentioned Verve and Jason said they had heard an earlier version of ANS that was scrapped for the newer, slicker version. A side note Kate was sitting right next to him.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by The Dr »

angelsighs wrote:
really interesting firsthand points about their various personalities. Ashcroft does across as much more extroverted than the others. but that's part of what made him such a great frontman (and also what made them stand out from the shoegaze bands of the time) there's also stories of in the early days, him literally being a catalyst and pushing them along when the others were much more laidback. but I guess it's that classic story of the very evident musical chemistry not managing to fix the personality clashes.
that's the same with the bunnies too, they bemoaned mcculloch getting the headlines but if he was not there they didn't work or speak to journalists. in terms of personality (mcculloch, ashcroft, bono, liam etc), 'necessary evil'?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by heisenberg »

I wonder if we can expect to hear the 'original' version of ANS that Jason spoke of at your record signing in the deluxe versions of the verve albums that are coming out.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by TheWarmth »

I doubt we'll get the alternate mix of ANS. I'm assuming all of the b-sides will be included as well as (hopefully) some live material.
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Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by BzaInSpace »

niamhm wrote:...I still get a buzz from hearing the full version of Love Is The Law, a few good track on The Seahores album miles better than the new `Roses song.
Haven't heard 'Love is the Law' in near enough two decades - which is scary. I really liked it at the time - nothing to me was of consequence after that really, but dunno if I ever even heard a full version? I did have a CD single...

I think Ian Brown said at the time the Stone Roses chose not to record it? Could have done with that Mani & Reni rhythm section on it. And a half decent busker on vocals

Plus... "...blind cobbler's thumbs.." :lol:


Was on holidays most of last week, and basically couch surfed in various locations during so. For a magic 24 hours, it was constantly 6Music, and at one point this song was on and I was enjoying the sheer goodwill of the whole thing and I realized it had to be 'Hold On' by Richard Ashcroft.

I actually thought it was pretty decent. Having never heard it before, and having only listened to that truly bizarre remix.

I said it.... :o
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toomilk
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Location: San Diego

Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by toomilk »

So no one has listened to the album in full?

anyone?
niamhm
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Posts: 1894
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: ashcroft thinks he'll be bigger than the verve

Post by niamhm »

toomilk wrote:So no one has listened to the album in full?

anyone?
Yes, been listening to it for a fortnight now and rather enjoying it.
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