Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

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toomilk
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Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by toomilk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:07 pm

Raiding my archives
I am selling a few items from my old Spacemen 3/Spiritualized days.

First up …a box of old tape cassettes from Spacemen3, Spiritualized, and Spectrum. Featuring studio outtakes, odd mixes, live recordings and rehearsals.
https://willcarruthers.squarespace.com/ ... /cassettes

Looks like Will is selling these old demo cassettes. This would be incredible if some of us pooled together some resources and then made this stuff available to everyone else...Anyone want to help out? I'm going to contact will and make an offer.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by mc » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:13 pm

This looks amazing - I'd happily chip in :D

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by toomilk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:54 pm

I gave him a low ball offer just to get a feel for the prices he's looking for. I think I offended him. Haha.

Looks like upwards of 1,500 pounds is the territory.

Let's hope that whoever buys it converts and shares it.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by catweazel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:22 pm

Good luck with that price tag. I don't see him reaching anywhere close to it...

The Sheffield gig is already circulating (that's the only live tape I can figure out from the pics) For the rest, you would need to establish what's already been released to see if there's anything new - but I'm guessing a large amount is already out there. One of them is labelled 12" mix so I wonder how many are copies from DAT masters of the official releases.

If he wants to get that much, he'd need to break it down and point out what's released/unreleased.

Just the fact that he'll leave it up to the buyer makes me suspicious... but good luck all the same.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by good dope/good fun » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:36 pm

Talk about rarest Spiritualized releases...

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by Sim » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:14 pm

In the video clip Will mentions Didgeridoo, which turned into Sway. This is on Blue On Blue, so I guess some of the other cassettes will contain stuff that was on both that and Friendly Fire? Probably quite a lot more though.
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by heisenberg » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:05 pm

Not to diss Will, but didn't Jason eventually put Blue on Blue and Friendly Fire up here for free when Will tried to sell them? Wonder if something similar will happen again with this stuff.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by mojo filters » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:49 pm

heisenberg wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:05 pm
Not to diss Will, but didn't Jason eventually put Blue on Blue and Friendly Fire up here for free when Will tried to sell them? Wonder if something similar will happen again with this stuff.
I don't think you are dissing Will. As I recall, he made the point that the limited release combined with the nice packaging didn't really make them much of an earner for him.

To be fair, I suspect that was on purpose as at least 3 tracks were clearly copyrighted as previous releases on Dedicated / Sony, and I strongly suspect Jason was due the rights for the rest.

It would be nice if the current website had that kind of content. Right now it's a mix of style-over-substance+expensive merch+stupid expensive shipping! (Not that I begrudge Jason the chance to earn from the new album.) However it's very nicely stylish, as per the ANH aesthetic - as opposed to the previous two lacklustre efforts.

I vaguely recall that originally the old Outpatients site had both Blue On Blue (minus commercial releases) and Friendly Fire available initially both as lossless and lossy formats. But then just the mp3 type version was left up, until the whole site went dark.

My memory might not be quite right there...

I really hope we get the chance to hear at least the best bits of these new tapes. I thought the unused fast fiddle part from Any Way You Want Me was better than any of the official 4 12" versions. Hopefully there are some more hidden gems out there!
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by sunray » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:01 am

I'd quite like to hear Jason's demos of Steve Earle covers :wink:

Also, what could 'I Need Your Love' and 'Jokes Light' be? A Cheap Trick cover and comedy version of Shine A Light perhaps?
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by olan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:45 am

I bought a box full of Durrutti Column tapes at an auction of items from Tony Wilson's estate. We eventually recovered nearly 60 unreleased pieces of music. After digitising the tapes we passed the material over to the band and it has started to appear on their reissue program. While Durrutti Column column never had the commercial success and/or profile of Spiritualized I'm afraid £1500 is just a little bit speculative without any clear idea of the contents of the tapes or indeed their condition.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by selib » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:37 pm

If any of the old guard here wants to set up gofundme type thing to buy this. I would be willing to chip in!

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by ABOCA » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm

Me too! Maybe a while back we could easily have got around 100 people chipping in £ 15 - £ 20 each. Not so sure these days, sadly. But you never know. Somehow it only seems right that this board gets to give Will what he wants and to acquire ownership of these tapes. FFS, let's not let Gerald Palmer anywhere near these. He'd probably find enough here for another 30 years of Record Store Day!

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by olan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:04 pm

I just heard from Will. He is looking for more than the £1.5K mentioned earlier in the thread. I honestly hope he gets top whack for it, but I don't think I see the value in it (even as an avid Spiritualized collector).

:(

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by toomilk » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 pm

Yeah, he's saying over £3k now.

It's now out of my price range unless a few others want to commit a thousand quid. LOL.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by burningwheel » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:45 pm

Is that what bids are up to now?
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by clewsr » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:14 am

£3k? Too rich for my blood! Although I would have loved to support a crowd funded shared effort, I doubt there's enough people here to reach that.

I can't help wondering how much unreleased work there will be on there tapes, - I guess Will already worked through the best stuff for the friendly fire and blue on blue projects?

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by olan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:25 am

clewsr wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:14 am
I can't help wondering how much unreleased work there will be on there tapes, - I guess Will already worked through the best stuff for the friendly fire and blue on blue projects?
This is the point isn't it? Without knowing what is on the tapes, and what condition the tapes are in, it is very difficult to value them. Given the low numbers of regular posters I think we could be looking at £100-150 each to buy this stash. I can't see it having broad enough appeal at that price even for us.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by angelsighs » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am

even if much of this is already in the public domain, there's gotta be enough over all the tapes for a pretty solid selection.. having said that, as others have mentioned, it's hard to say without knowing exactly what is on the tapes. It's basically a total gamble to bid on this without actually knowing the contents.

the early rehearsal would be interesting- is that the one that the version of Sometimes came from?

How would this even work regarding the buyer having the right to share it? even if they buy the tapes, they don't get the copyright of the compositions or performances do they? could they share it, but just not sell it commercially?

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by spzretent » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:12 pm

angelsighs wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am
How would this even work regarding the buyer having the right to share it? even if they buy the tapes, they don't get the copyright of the compositions or performances do they? could they share it, but just not sell it commercially?
It depends on Sonic & Jason. If they step in. I just aquired 250 demo and rehearsal tapes from another band from an ex original band member. The others politely asked I don't sell or upload any of this material. Otherwise they are fine with me having them. I promised I wouldn't.
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by BzaInSpace » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm

toomilk wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 pm
Yeah, he's saying over £3k now.
Ridiculous.
O P 8

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by mojo filters » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:47 pm

BzaInSpace wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm
toomilk wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 pm
Yeah, he's saying over £3k now.
Ridiculous.
[My emboldened text]

I thought Willie's exceptionally well written personal musical memoir, was the perfect foil to Erik Morse's generic (though giving him the benefit of the doubt) well-intentioned and solidly-sourced valuable tome, which was full of pertinent facts yet plagued by the kind of repetitious hacky writing tropes Willie carefully avoided.

£3,000 for tapes with no assurance of specifically interesting content, good quality, redundant duplication of previous releases, or most importantly copyright - can realistically only appeal to the moneyed private fan and completist.

I would like to send Willie all the best wishes one can convey. He has been an extremely reliable trooper in this mix. The complexities created by the revolving artists appearing on Spacemen 3 and early Spiritualized records, present legitimate grievances I think he can fairly air, and does so with gracious humility.

Sadly this current situation seems like a desperate money grab. On the surface, it does not reflect the WBC I've conversed with privately, nor the exceptionally humble-yet-honest broker of information reflected in his own endearing published writing.

I'm struggling to recall all the specifics, around the contractual obligations of Spacemen 3 and early Spiritualized recordings. I do clearly recall reading all the public transcripts around Gerald Palmer's victory in respect of The Enid case - they are fascinating, yet required one to further reference all the law school lectures I zoned out in!

In the latter Enid case, Palmer was able to use and abuse the law via the sustained brute force he applied, combined via his willing and industrious business partner (a qualified solicitor and Officer of the Court) - plus the resources he could marshal, when more specialised legal representation was required and needed funding.

If Palmer (or other interested parties) can potentially lay claim to the copyright of any portion of these "new" recordings, any potential purchase would appear to be fraught with litigious problems.

If Willie gets what he wants, I wish him nothing but the best. However on the surface it would seem he is potentially just passing on a pile of problems - whilst not necessarily offering the expected commensurate rewards.
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by BzaInSpace » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:05 pm

mojo filters wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:47 pm
BzaInSpace wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm
toomilk wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 pm
Yeah, he's saying over £3k now.
Ridiculous.
[My emboldened text]

... a desperate money grab.
My emboldened text.

There's no way there's gonna be some lost gold/holy grail recording stashed away in a box of tapes degrading in decades in a shitty cassette box. Particularly from the bootlegs he sold back in 2005.

I appreciate your sentiment but this is really sad.
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by A saint » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:50 pm

Will just aired some snippets of this via Twitter. Truthfully, I'm sure there's amazing stuff on there (he aired a stellar "Take Your Time," an early "Why Don't You Smile," a killer "Hypnotized" demo) along with plenty that's . . . not. I'm not sure that I begrudge him doing it (read: the Spiritualized fanatic in me would be thrilled to have this stuff to listen to at will, on a proper stereo), although I also think it's weird --wrong-- for this stuff to get into the world without the enthusiastic consent of all the players, and without all of them being compensated. Whatever. I'd pitch in if there were enough folks willing to do as much. Sounds like the price is rich enough it would take quite a few of us though.

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by burningwheel » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:59 am

Yep. Need to know exact contents and if they play ok especially fot that price. I bought a demo tape from a guy in ebay once and only about half of it played
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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by angelsighs » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:12 am

spzretent wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:12 pm
angelsighs wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:32 am
How would this even work regarding the buyer having the right to share it? even if they buy the tapes, they don't get the copyright of the compositions or performances do they? could they share it, but just not sell it commercially?
It depends on Sonic & Jason. If they step in. I just aquired 250 demo and rehearsal tapes from another band from an ex original band member. The others politely asked I don't sell or upload any of this material. Otherwise they are fine with me having them. I promised I wouldn't.
thanks- that makes sense, interesting.

from the little I know about Jason, he is totally fine with people sharing live recordings.

but demos and studio stuff- I would imagine he is much more guarded about. as he works so long to get the albums just as he wants them.

I remember Jimmy Page talking about this in the past- he said that Led Zep live bootlegs are fair play, as people have bought a ticket, also it's a public performance. Whereas unfinished studio stuff feels more of a violation- like they are looking at your personal diary or something. I imagine this is one of the few things that Jason and Jimmy agree on!


I'd also agree that it's a bit risky to bid on this without knowing what's on there, but that's no reason for anyone to have a personal dig at Will?

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by ABOCA » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:09 am

Surely Jason would still be in possession of some of this stuff, wouldn't he? Especially the Spiritualized material. I've always wondered why J has never brought out more unreleased stuff, especially in between new albums, which as we all know can be an excruciatingly long time. Alright, we had Complete Works 1 & 2, which was great and the additional LAGWAFIS discs to coincide with the Don't Look Back RFH gigs, but the material on these tapes possible could have had an official release on say a Deluxe Lazer Guided Melodies reissue. Similarly, there must be enough previously unheard outtakes to fill at least one disc on a Deluxe Pure Phase reissue. When you look at what other bands are bringing out it is all a bit frustrating!

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by BVCP206 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 pm

BzaInSpace wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm
toomilk wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 pm
Yeah, he's saying over £3k now.
Ridiculous.
Agreed
'Remember, change is not good'

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by heisenberg » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:54 pm

ABOCA wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:09 am
Surely Jason would still be in possession of some of this stuff, wouldn't he? Especially the Spiritualized material. I've always wondered why J has never brought out more unreleased stuff, especially in between new albums, which as we all know can be an excruciatingly long time. Alright, we had Complete Works 1 & 2, which was great and the additional LAGWAFIS discs to coincide with the Don't Look Back RFH gigs, but the material on these tapes possible could have had an official release on say a Deluxe Lazer Guided Melodies reissue. Similarly, there must be enough previously unheard outtakes to fill at least one disc on a Deluxe Pure Phase reissue. When you look at what other bands are bringing out it is all a bit frustrating!
I'm still waiting for the Acoustic Mainlines show that were filmed to be released!

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by dselevan2 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:31 am

Dang! I am considering selling some of my spiritualized records for some of this. Talk about rare. Half my old spiritualized records sound distorted and half warped anyway, I doubt this can sound much worse. Has anyone thought about pooling resources and divvying up the loot? I don’t know Will, but have been satisfied with everything he has sold over the years and seriously can’t imagine him ripping anyone off. He seems to take a lot of pride in everything he puts out there and like a nice dude from the couple email exchanges I had with him many years ago and from following his instagram. This looks like a seriously cool thing to have in the collection. The tapes sound good in the clips !

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Re: Box of Spacemen 3/Spiritualized Cassettes

Post by dselevan2 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:33 am

ABOCA wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:09 am
Deluxe Pure Phase reissue!
Hell yeah.

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