Free Jazz

For new sounds, old sounds and favourite sound discussion...

Moderators: sunny, BzaInSpace, runcible, spzretent

Post Reply
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Free Jazz

Post by simonkeeping »

Right folks all this talk of guitar loops and the Red Rose gigs has put me in a real free Jazz mood.Ive been listening to alot this week and thought it would be good to open it up to you people and see what albums etc you rate.

Couple of albums that have been hurting my already confused mind this week.

Alexander von Schlippenbach's Global Unity Orchestra - Globe Unity 67/70
Recommended by Jason as one of his favorite albums of the year in NME a few years back. F'king hairy Euro Jazz freakout. Not in the least bit 'NICE" or jazz club. Listening to it makes you feel like a dog with the wind whistling past your ears with your head out the car window.

Guitar Loops

John Tchicai - With Strings
from the second Treader series. Really nice. Not really lairy free stuff but quite nice and relaxing.

The Peter Brotzmann Sextet / Quartet - Nipples
Again a bit of hoary Euro business.

John Coltrane Om/Acension
Im not sure if its true but apparently when they recorded Om they were all on acid. From my experience American free Jazz is alot more mellow sounding?

Anyway be interested to know what free jazz albums you lot rate.

cheers

si
Shinesalight
Known user
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: Brighton, U.K.
Contact:

Re: Free Jazz

Post by Shinesalight »

simonkeeping wrote: Anyway be interested to know what free jazz albums you lot rate.
Free Jazz....never! It should be locked away and the key thrown away. :wink:
will this do?
Known user
Posts: 1036
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Somewhere in the South of England

Post by will this do? »

Years and years after I last saw it, I got a DVD of Jazz on a Summers Day... it don't mean a thing if it ain't got THAT swing, Dada.
Lipsmackin' thirstquenchin' acetastin' motivatin' goodbuzzin' cooltalkin'
highwalkin' fastlivin' evergivin' self aggrandizin' willthisdo?
duppyconquerer
Known user
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:08 am

Post by duppyconquerer »

Damn, I thought you were giving away your Jazz collection. I'm no expert really but isn't improv abit (albeit slightly) different to free? Just heard the sound of hairs being split, no doubt some clever muso snob type will be able to treat my split ends. Or just pluck it out. Failing that a comb-over for my musically bald ramblings, going a little grey around the temples/tempo. Notice the quote of Coltrane's asscension in the first part of SHJ live album? Thought I was the only person that rated om. William Parker? Really digging the Prevost more here, you gotta check out AMM if you're not down with those crrrazee cats. Jonn Zorn, Keith Jarrett, William Parker, Steve Lacy, Dave Holland.
Repent by Charles Gayle
Interstellar Space by Coltrane

Free/improv/avant guarde - it's all good stuff







also see JAMIE CULLUM.











Image
"I may flake out tonight if I cannot get my way"
twentysixdollars
Known user
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by twentysixdollars »

The best of Coltrane's free period is Sun Ship, which is also one of his greatest albums ever. Interstellar Space (which is a sax-drums duet LP) is also up there. Ascension is a big lumpy thing, very good but not flawless.

European free jazz is mostly very overrated.
duppyconquerer
Known user
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:08 am

Post by duppyconquerer »

that's two votes for Interstellar Space.


I think everyone needs this in their life. I do believe it enriches the soul.

26, what do you think of Guitar Loops, on first impression? (other thread)
"I may flake out tonight if I cannot get my way"
twentysixdollars
Known user
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by twentysixdollars »

duppyconquerer wrote:that's two votes for Interstellar Space.


I think everyone needs this in their life. I do believe it enriches the soul.
True. I've been giving it out as a gift since it was reissued on CD. "Venus" is just about the most monolithic piece of music I've ever heard. The quartet version on "Stellar Regions" doesn't really compare, although it's quite beautiful.
26, what do you think of Guitar Loops, on first impression? (other thread)
Haven't bothered with it, to be honest. Too pricey. I liked the Evan Parker disc quite a bit, though.
duppyconquerer
Known user
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:08 am

Post by duppyconquerer »

The Evan Parker Treader was very good indeed. Perfect for a summers day.
In case anyone is confused, just wanted to point out William Parker is a different guy. If you are interested in this type of thing do go and seek him out. And Evan Parker.
"I may flake out tonight if I cannot get my way"
appledelphy
Known user
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: FISHING WITH JOHN!

Post by appledelphy »

twentysixdollars wrote: European free jazz is mostly very overrated.
brötzmann especially - it´s like as if everyone who ever read a book would say their favourite author is Shakespeare - 26$ country wins this one.
ro
Known user
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:45 pm
Location: LET THE LIGHT BE FOREVER GREEN

Post by ro »

duppyconquerer wrote:The Evan Parker Treader was very good indeed. Perfect for a summers day.
In case anyone is confused, just wanted to point out William Parker is a different guy. If you are interested in this type of thing do go and seek him out. And Evan Parker.
i'm so curious about this record, i missed out on it. i ran out and got Lines Burned In Light when i first heard it, but that's all the evan parker i know besides what he's done w/ spiritualized. can anyone tell me if it's like the one that i have? perhaps a lot like the one i have, but.... with birds?
twentysixdollars
Known user
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by twentysixdollars »

The Jig wrote: I'm not sure what catergory of Jazz this one falls into....Adam Pieronczyk, Leslaw Mozdzer ~ Tell Me Anything About Your Life Mr. Buk Pieronczyk on Saxaphone, Leslaw on Piano.
A little long-winded. But that's the Tynerest piano I've heard by a Euro. Try some Eric Dolphy if this interests you - Out to Lunch because it's great and cheap, and Out There because it's airy and good-humored.
appledelphy
Known user
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: FISHING WITH JOHN!

Post by appledelphy »

I have out to lunch bot no fuckin way that I would agree it´s free jazz!

although I admit that I don´t know what "free jazz" is.. seems that only the ones who hate it knows what it is!

and yes mcoy tyner is a legend of course although at times I feel he plays a bit too much in the context of the me lody but it´s certainly not free jazz cause he´s usually very structured ( BUT GOOD) - fucjk I m propbnably to drunk to make jazz comments at this point.

but dont know really cause I talking bout juju and adams apple speak no evbil etc

I havent heard (or rather havent bought it or have an opinion on it) "better together"... 26, should I buy it?
big big holes in my jazz collection but I sort of know what I want and only some of it is possibly categorized as free jazz..
Last edited by appledelphy on Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
twentysixdollars
Known user
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by twentysixdollars »

appledelphy wrote:I have out to lunch bot no fuckin way that I would agree it´s free jazz!
I totally agree - it's avant-garde, but not free. It's actually quite composed. I was commenting on the attached yousendit file, which in my opinion probably wasn't free either. No more so at any rate than, say, "Hat and Beard".

Free jazz doesn't always have to be abrasive. One of my favorite "nice" free records is called Inventions and Dimensions by Herbie Hancock. It's basically a piano trio record, except instead of a drummer it has two Latin percussionists. The sound is quite unique, the tunes bracingly (and almost totally) improvised. "Succotash" is certainly one of the most glorious things in the whole Blue Note catalogue. Jesus, is Herbie underrated. There has never been a better pianist. His whole acoustic catalogue is close to flawless. He did ruin his reputation a little with the early seventies. And late seventies. And eighties. And nineties. And noughties.
appledelphy
Known user
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: FISHING WITH JOHN!

Post by appledelphy »

guess the noughties is the right time to get interstellar space then.. I only have 7 trane records.. :roll:

herbie and shorter I think I have all their solo albums before they became jazzrockers. :shock:
Guest

Post by Guest »

hey will this do!!! Jazz On A Summer's Day is a classic! Chico Hamilton's stuff on there is absolutely brilliant. I can't tell for sure but it looks and sounds like Gabor Szabo on guitar no less.
Gruff
Known user
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: UK

free jazz

Post by Gruff »

Free Jazz/Avant Garde splitting hairs etc taken for granted...

Surprised nobody has mentioned Miles Davis. An obvious starting ground for getting into most 'jazz sub-genres' I guess. Not my personal favorite but Bitches Brew/Live Evil era stuff pretty good.

Bill Evans-conversations with myself. That's great piano playing!

Sidsel Endresson?
When the hand points to the moon only the fool looks at the finger
twentysixdollars
Known user
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: free jazz

Post by twentysixdollars »

Gruff wrote: Surprised nobody has mentioned Miles Davis. An obvious starting ground for getting into most 'jazz sub-genres' I guess. Not my personal favorite but Bitches Brew/Live Evil era stuff pretty good.
Miles never recorded anything remotely free or avant-garde. (I don't think he quite had stamina). Bitches Brew/Silent Way/etc. are 'weird' in a sense, but they're really just gimmicky fusion, and not 'out'.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Doesn't Guitar Loops sound like a bedroom demo of Pharoah Sanders' Black Unity by the way?
veiko
Known user
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Estonia

Post by veiko »

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Guitar Loops sound like a bedroom demo of Pharoah Sanders' Black Unity by the way?
more like a Jan Jelinek remix of Black Unity....
Gruff
Known user
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: UK

Free Jazz

Post by Gruff »

Gruff wrote:

Surprised nobody has mentioned Miles Davis. An obvious starting ground for getting into most 'jazz sub-genres' I guess. Not my personal favorite but Bitches Brew/Live Evil era stuff pretty good.



Miles never recorded anything remotely free or avant-garde. (I don't think he quite had stamina). Bitches Brew/Silent Way/etc. are 'weird' in a sense, but they're really just gimmicky fusion, and not 'out'.
yeh indeed. I was suggesting that to many, the mere notion of improvisation might be classed as free and so therefore these may be considered. Colloquially I mean. I guess I didn't say that though.

Ditto Bill Evans.

I always prefered second wave anywho.[/quote]
When the hand points to the moon only the fool looks at the finger
wtd?

Post by wtd? »

Is that Bill Evans as in 'Everybody Digs Bill Evans'?

I love that album - the first xmas present I gave to my (now) wife... way way back in '94.

As you were.
ro
Known user
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:45 pm
Location: LET THE LIGHT BE FOREVER GREEN

Post by ro »

for anyone interested in free jazz, :!: PLEASE :!: check out paul flaherty and chris corsano.
leave your mind at home or be prepared to lose it. (sorry, stole that quote from sonic about something else, but it's right on for these guys, too)

http://yod.com/hatedmusic.html
seems they have upcoming dates in the UK and in new england/new york.
BLOCKALLGUESTS!

Post by BLOCKALLGUESTS! »

I have an even greater respect for Santa now.
Duppy
ro
Known user
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:45 pm
Location: LET THE LIGHT BE FOREVER GREEN

Post by ro »

Note:
you kinda have to BE there- i don't think the videos on that site do justice, but in person it just carries you away.
ro
Known user
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:45 pm
Location: LET THE LIGHT BE FOREVER GREEN

Post by ro »

BLOCKALLGUESTS! wrote:I have an even greater respect for Santa now.
Duppy
ha! now you know what he's up to the rest of the year!
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Post by simonkeeping »

twentysixdollars wrote:

European free jazz is mostly very overrated.


brötzmann especially - it´s like as if everyone who ever read a book would say their favourite author is Shakespeare - 26$ country wins this one.

Nothing like a bit of musical snobbery. Why do you think its overated?
sunny
Site Admin
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by sunny »

duppyconquerer wrote:that's two votes for Interstellar Space.
I think everyone needs this in their life. I do believe it enriches the soul.
Three! I love it. Had the pleasure of seeing Rashied Ali playing live recently. Of course I wish I'd had the opportunity a long time ago, but it was still worthwhile.


Speaking of Evan Parker, Spring Heel Jack are doing a set with him this Friday at the Whitechapel Art Gallery.
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
Juzba
Known user
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by Juzba »

Peter Brötzmann Octet - Machine Gun

Ornette Coleman - Free Jazz


Sun Ra Arkestra - Heliocentric worlds of Vol 2


All of the above = hot shit.
Meo
Known user
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:05 pm

Post by Meo »

Nice one Sunny - sounds great - where did you find out about that then?

- Tried to have a look at SHJ t'internet webpage the other day and it links to Cricklewood Homeless Project's home page!!!!
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Post by simonkeeping »

Sun Ra Arkestra - Heliocentric worlds of Vol 2
Always mean to buy this album but everytime I go to pick it up I end walking out with something else. Whats it sound like?
Juzba
Known user
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by Juzba »

simonkeeping wrote:
Sun Ra Arkestra - Heliocentric worlds of Vol 2
Always mean to buy this album but everytime I go to pick it up I end walking out with something else. Whats it sound like?

Bonkers. Not quite as menacing as Brötzmann et al. , but most certainly free jazz of high quality. I got the vinyl for 11 euros or 7,5 quid, well worth the price.

It's strange, because I could swear he's using electronics (especially on "The Sun Myth", which covers all of side A), but according to the credits all instruments are acoustic...

Buy it.
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Post by simonkeeping »

Nice one, Im going to get on that one. He loves the electronics. I got a couple of live albums hes done. Start off a bit big band and then decend into madness. Lots of keyboards fizzing and whistling. genius...

I remember many, many years ago I was in Rays Jazz Shop (amazing music store in London, sadly no longer there) and Ray told me a story about the directors of whatever label Sun Ra was on walked in whilst someone was playing the yet to be released album by him and they asked what it was, the guy replyed Sun Ra's New album. the exec said "No its not we're not releasing that" and apparently it was shelved cos they thought it was too scary. Nice
sunny
Site Admin
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by sunny »

Meo wrote:Nice one Sunny - sounds great - where did you find out about that then?

- Tried to have a look at SHJ t'internet webpage the other day and it links to Cricklewood Homeless Project's home page!!!!
Haha!
(Word of mouth). But here's the link to to the venue & tickets.
http://www.whitechapel.org/content.php?page_id=2334
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
Meo
Known user
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:05 pm

Post by Meo »

Hey Sunny!

Was this any good then? Had to miss it and was rather annoyed!
sunny
Site Admin
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by sunny »

Meo wrote:Hey Sunny!

Was this any good then? Had to miss it and was rather annoyed!
Hey there!

Yeah I thought so. It was very different from the previous two Red Rose gigs, much more mellow. Evan Parker was playing against Coxon's and Wales' background of birdsong and atmosheric sounds. His playing was realy beautiful, with a lot of subtetly.

The space was quite tiny and it got really packed. You could hear a pin drop in there- which makes for a different kind of intense experience. :D
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
B-Z-Z-Z-A

Post by B-Z-Z-Z-A »

simonkeeping wrote:
Sun Ra Arkestra - Heliocentric worlds of Vol 2
Always mean to buy this album but everytime I go to pick it up I end walking out with something else. Whats it sound like?
IT makes Guitar Loops sound like Richard Ashcroft - truly.

I think there are many better Ra records than that one, although it was the first album of his I ever owned it's a difficult one to get through, although I agree with Juzba on how he makes bassoons sound like synths...back in 1965.

But talk about uneasy listening! I think the first volume had a similar feel, and I know there was a third volume, but I haven't heard it.

I would suggest a few alternate titles from Ra's vast discography, such as:


'Night Of The Purple Moon' 1970...a special one this, a condensed Arkestra line-up and a lot of solo piano...soothing

'Nature God' - Live in Egypt 1971...great sounding live record, great line up.

While the 'Space Is The Place' LP on Impulse! is widely available try and hunt down the soundtrack album of the film of the same name. Bizarre album indeed.

Also the 'Singles' double set is excellent..some of those early sides are doo-wop on acid...'Daddy's Gonna Tell You No Lie'...magic!

There is an unreleased - although bootlegged - album from 1973 called 'Crystal Spears And Cymbals' that is definetely worth tracking down, as is a 1976 album called 'Cosmos' that i found last year in Fopp, vinyl and all.

'Disco 3000' has been mentioned before but is worth mentioning again.

Sun Ra gets the funk...cold robot funk though
BzaInSpace
Site Admin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: HELL

Post by BzaInSpace »

Ach...that was me.
magick

free jazz

Post by magick »

i think my prior response somehow did not show up. anyhoo, look up the work of keith tippett. he oversaw the 50-piece madness known as CENTIPEDE in the 70's. their album "septober energy" was produced by fripp. kind of a tough listen though. he also played on king crimson's LIZARD album, and their early single "CAT FOOD". speaking of king crimson, try to find THE CRIMSON JAZZ TRIO. really amazing takes on crimson tunes in a super jazzed out format. other names to investigate, surely SUN-RA ("sun-ra meets john cage" is a treat), HASIDIC NEW WAVE w/ the fuse is excellent, ORNETTE COLEMAN, TONY WILLIAMS and JOHN ZORN'S "taboo & exile", which is not real jazzy, but just real good. MIKE PATTON and DAVE LOMBARDO guest on the album. enjoy.
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Post by simonkeeping »

Has anyone heard Sun- Ra 'Nuclear War'? Its quality. Hes was so far ahead of his time its ridiculous. Think its from the same period as Disco 3000.
Meo
Known user
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:05 pm

Post by Meo »

Yo Le Tengo's version of Nuclear Wars pretty legendary Simon as well....
Juzba
Known user
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by Juzba »

I love Nuclear War too, but it's funny because my favourite Sun Ra (and quite possibly my favourite jazz record of all time) LP is "Jazz in Silhouette", which is basically traditional bebop. Words can't describe how accomplished a record this is. I've had a really hard time trying to find it, but have to keep on searching, it's just that good.
jack white
Known user
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Tralfamadore

Post by jack white »

http://www.tommytiernan.com/

under sounds. need quicktime.
simonkeeping
Known user
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Contact:

Post by simonkeeping »

Free jazz sounds like a Fire in a pet shop.
genius.


Spring Heel Jack are in the wire this month. Was going to scan it in a post it up here but I forgot to bring it to work. whoops. Guitar Loops gets reviewed too with a thumbs up.
Juzba
Known user
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by Juzba »

Supersilent.

Fantastic free jazz orchstra on Rune Grammofon


Just listening to Supersilent 7 (in DVD format only) and it sounds incredible.

http://www.runegrammofon.com/v2/catalog.php?shownews=50
sunny
Site Admin
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by sunny »

This month's Wire lists Spring Heel Jack as playing with John Tchicai on Fri 31 March at the Spitz. There's also an interview with Coxon and Wales (and a review of guitarloops in the review section).
'Come and rock and roll me over, Let's get this damn job over.'
duppyconquerer
Known user
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:08 am

Post by duppyconquerer »

for plenty jazz stuff check:

http://www.emanemdisc.com/index.html

it still has all the Treader stuff and Guitar Loops in stock, plus a bank depleeting array of all other free improv modern jazz stuff. :wink:

edit: there is some very indepth articles, descriptions etc of the genre on that wallet worrying site as well.
"I may flake out tonight if I cannot get my way"
Post Reply