toomilk wrote:dexterfp@utas.edu.au wrote:
1. Astral Weeks (Van Morrison)
Really? I would have never guessed. It's a great album, but the GREATEST? I don't know.
Ahhh...I was drunk and did not see the "in rough order"...my apologies.
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funnily enough i would agree with a lot of this - though i do love the record, it really only placed so highly in that list of mine due to some tactical voting. if i was being honest i would have both #1 and in utero ahead of it!Spamela DeBarres wrote:twentysixdollars wrote:Pop:Segregation, yeah, I don't dig. Bop and McGuinn blew that apart already.twentysixdollars wrote:Jazz:
Figures. He's always been about weighing an album down with 10X too much selfpity and introspection.bunnyben wrote:one of richard ashcrofts fav albumsjack white wrote:9: Chris Bell – I am the Cosmos
IATC is over heralded. Good for what it is, a way unfinished album project that it's creator couldn't get off the ground (not just due to the frequently mentioned industry hassles, but because he'd fallen majorly and couldn't get the shit together), but nowhere near the classic that people make out. It's more a posthumously compiled set of demos and works in progress than an album.
"There Was A Life/Light" was already a depressingly Beatley drag when Big Star deemed it too mediocre/unformed for release. The subsequent version on IATC is pasty enough to make that earlier pass sound like Funka-fuckin-Delic by comparison, to the point where you're wondering if the ambition was to write Hurricane#1's "Let Go Of The Dream" 25 years before Andy Bell dribbled it.
Where CB's stellar "#1Record" contributions offered affirmation, swelled the heart and inspired empathy, too much of the stuff on IAMTC only reeks of Mama's boy type "I'm a genius and nobody knows it" indulgence. And not in a compelling way.
Don't mean this to be cruel, because I'm a big admirer of Chris' talents at their most exalted, but when he whines the line "spending all my time, waiting to die" you just wish someone would put him out of his misery/apathy. For his sake. It IS possible to scream of suicide while still betraying a deep desire for life (YER BLUES, IN FREAKIN UTERO), but Chris just says he wants to die and that's it. Bye then, see you in the next one.
And that IS sad...not heroically, as most seem to think, but pathetically.
Of the good stuff..."Speed Of Sound", You And Your Sister" and "Look Up" are stunning, complete productions. The superior 45 mix of the title song is left off. And roughly tuned guitars, guide vocals and nonexistant production that the Beatles obsessed studio-perfectionist in Bell would've built over (use the quantum leap of "Get Away" into "I Don't Know" as your proof) relegate brilliant tunes like "Better Save Yourself" and "Though I Know She Lies" to unfinished gem status.
Jody Stephens' void is massively felt, the dynamics and propulsion required to send potential-fat slabs of boogieNsnarl like "Make A Scene" into the stratosphere completely absent from Rosebrough's lifeless drubbing.
"Fight At The Table" is just rancid.
Kinda like half of a great album -- still essential, but a frustrating non-contender in trueblue LP terms.
I think I might be about to open up a whole nest of musical vipers here, but I rate Moondance over Astral Weeks...it brought an extra element of soul to his music, as well as moving towads a more outward looking perspective in his songs.toomilk wrote:toomilk wrote:dexterfp@utas.edu.au wrote:
1. Astral Weeks (Van Morrison)
Really? I would have never guessed. It's a great album, but the GREATEST? I don't know.
Ahhh...I was drunk and did not see the "in rough order"...my apologies.
Quick one while I've got the chance. You're not alone in rating Moondance over Astral Weeks, as no less a luminary than Robert Christgau has always gone thumbs up on the former and thumbs down on the latter. I guess I'm a fan of Van's, but Moondance holds very little interest to me - you talk about a soul influence, but much of the record sounds awfully plastic - prefab soul, if you will, or pastiche. "These Dreams of You", "Crazy Love", "And It Stoned Me", I mean, they're all impeccably crafted, in every way, but they're also nothing more than pastiche - readymade Ray/Smokey/Van himself (respectively). "Into the Mystic" no longer does anything for me (it didn't for years, it did for some reason from ~2001-~2004, it no longer does) and "Everyone" has always irritated me. In my opinion His Band and the Street Choir, which is much looser, feels much more authentic, by virtue of the fact that the songs finally sound like Van's own rather than like pastiches. And though the songs are ostensibly not as memorable, there are more of them, and the convivial atmosphere is irresistible. Anyway, it's clearly the best of his pop work. Into the Music from 1979 is almost as good. In the last year or so I've lost patience for the likes of Tupelo Honey, St. Dominic's Preview, Hard Nose the Highway, etc., even Veedon Fleece, which has some of his best material and some of his most diffuse. I still like (love?) most of Common One and Beautiful Vision, even Inarticulate Speech of the Heart.mojo filters wrote: I think I might be about to open up a whole nest of musical vipers here, but I rate Moondance over Astral Weeks...it brought an extra element of soul to his music, as well as moving towads a more outward looking perspective in his songs...Van Morrison's voice still sound[s] strong though.
http://www.topix.net/forum/who/the-white-stripesdpspac3@yahoo.com wrote:I guess you could put most of those albums in a "top 10" list, but Storm in Heaven? Really? I've been a huge Verve fan, but these days their stuff is starting to sound a bit thin, too precious, even. Not even one White Stripes album? What about their debut? I'd say its as good as any Velvet Underground album, a band which has bored me lately as well. Hell, just line up White Stripes, De Stijl, Elephant, and White Blood Cells and fill in the rest after that. Jack White's outdone about everyone, at this point; even old
Spaceman, whose lackluster stage prescence has become tiresome. Twenty years of sitting down onstage...give it up already. Him and Richard A. are so '96. I'd rather see jack and MEg any day of the week.
I've listened to that album once-scares the shit out of meveiko wrote:
in no certain order:
Suicide "Suicide"
Righteous.drones wrote:Rememeber John, fuck that sugar spun sister, kill that bad man and piss in that waterfall. I saw you, yeah you John, change from that 12 string to your lead where Tears picks up and kicks off and we were the kids 'shouting there's only one John Squire'. So John, so long man and cheers for the Jack Daniels.
It was that good...hence named twice...much as I appreciate the guitars on Second Coming, they could never have bettered the official debut!drones wrote:Why is there so much respect for the Stone Roses-Stone Roses? So good they named it twice!
The Second Coming was loads better IMO. Then the Seahorses, wow, now there was a band.
i am the resurection, waterfall, she bangs the drums, i wanna be adored, need i say more?mojo filters wrote:It was that good...hence named twice...much as I appreciate the guitars on Second Coming, they could never have bettered the official debut!drones wrote:Why is there so much respect for the Stone Roses-Stone Roses? So good they named it twice!
The Second Coming was loads better IMO. Then the Seahorses, wow, now there was a band.
Thought, opinions people?
Yes: Made of Stonebunnyben wrote:i am the resurection, waterfall, she bangs the drums, i wanna be adored, need i say more?mojo filters wrote:It was that good...hence named twice...much as I appreciate the guitars on Second Coming, they could never have bettered the official debut!drones wrote:Why is there so much respect for the Stone Roses-Stone Roses? So good they named it twice!
The Second Coming was loads better IMO. Then the Seahorses, wow, now there was a band.
Thought, opinions people?
I can't listen to that twee effort at all now. It's destiny was always your local boozer' jukebox...why?...because it's a memory you and yer mates can tap into for 10mins when yer pished on bottled beer...but thats all it is...a memory...mojo filters wrote:It was that good...hence named twice...much as I appreciate the guitars on Second Coming, they could never have bettered the official debut!drones wrote:Why is there so much respect for the Stone Roses-Stone Roses? So good they named it twice!
The Second Coming was loads better IMO. Then the Seahorses, wow, now there was a band.
Thought, opinions people?
oh shit yeah, ol' sally cinamon aswell. all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sallymojo filters wrote:
Sometimes I fantasise
When the streets are cold and lonely
And the cars they burn below me
Dont these times fill your eyes?
"Sally Cinnamon" wasn't on the album. That one's from the Garner era, predates their Zomba deal.bunnyben wrote:all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sally
I guess my particular generation grew up with the roses and so it's sometimes hard to remember other great songs like Elephant Stone, Sally Cinnamon, What the World is Waiting For etc were not included on the official debut album.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:"Sally Cinnamon" wasn't on the album. That one's from the Garner era, predates their Zomba deal.bunnyben wrote:all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sally
'Poor'? Not as poor as the man whose ears are too jaded to hear one of the greatest records of all time for what it is. If you can get past the pasty hordes of clueless indie-disco go'ers who worship it, that LP stands up with the best of any era. Save the indifference for crap like James...The Stone Roses were a band to believe in, a passion.
I never said it was poor at all - quite the opposite, just at the time we we're so into the band as they stood head and shoulders amongst their baggy peers, the release of the stone roses was eagerly anticipated but the quality was no real surprise, like I said I was already familiar with some of the songs.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:You just said it was poor a minute ago, I'm dead confused now. Help a divvy out -- do you like the Stone Roses first album or not?mojo filters wrote:it's only in hindsight I came to realise what a landmark it was...at the time it was just the roses making more great music as expected.
I think the reference to Sally Cinnamon was relating to a body of work pre-dating the Second Coming.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:"Sally Cinnamon" wasn't on the album. That one's from the Garner era, predates their Zomba deal.bunnyben wrote:all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sally
'Poor'? Not as poor as the man whose ears are too jaded to hear one of the greatest records of all time for what it is. If you can get past the pasty hordes of clueless indie-disco go'ers who worship it, that LP stands up with the best of any era. Save the indifference for crap like James...The Stone Roses were a band to believe in, a passion.
Is that not maybe a reflection on the bands who are citing influances, as opposed to a critique of an album that takes pride of place in many a music fans' collection?drones wrote:If it stands up in any era...would it stand up now? Are kids who are in bands now, enthusing about the Stone Roses as a major influence on them? I haven't heard that said often.
What a lot of bollocks.drones wrote:'I told Sally i was never happy, I needed so much more'
What a lot of whiney wank.
Right, no band before them ever stood out against a backdrop of shite, they were the first. Ok.drones wrote:They only stand out because the British Music Scene was infiltrated by American shite and SAW (no, not Mr. James but rather Stock, Aitken & Waterman) for the majority of that period.
Yeah, but don't ALL these things come and go then come back around again? 10 years ago it was au courant to namecheck the Beach Boys as a hip influence, now, less so. Who gives a fuck? They matter, and always will matter, to people who love music. If you're a cretin, they don't matter.drones wrote:Are kids who are in bands now, enthusing about the Stone Roses as a major influence on them? I haven't heard that said often.
drones wrote:It's difficult to see past the indie-disco aspect
drones wrote:as that is what/who they have to come to cater for.
And, again, insincere hyperbole isn't an issue across the board with about a thousand other great bands? That's exclusive to the Roses?drones wrote:The bitter legal split, if it hadn't been for that would they have been half of what they now 'seem' to be in some peoples eyes.
No, it's all fuckin' nostalgia.
Yeah, so here's where I stop taking you seriously. If you truly believe that, and aren't just mouthing off before you actually think, I don't belong on a thread with you. Not digging the Roses that much is one thing, ignoring their context is another.drones wrote:They are IMO to the late 80's/early 90's what Coldplay were to the late 90's/early 00's
drones wrote:I think the reference to Sally Cinnamon was relating to a body of work pre-dating the Second Coming.
But, whatever.bunnyben wrote:all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sally
drones wrote: 'I told Sally i was never happy, I needed so much more'
What a lot of whiney wank.
Very smartly observed, man.radioshack wrote:Regarding the whole 'new bands don't namecheck the Roses' thing, what I have noticed are a lot of these new bands (Arctic Monkeys, the View) mentioning Oasis, who themselves referenced the Stone Roses back in the day.
Too right sir!Icily fantasizing the murder-by-gunshot of a presiding monarch over the strains of a folksong as ingrainedly relatable to Englishness as royalty itself? Call me when Coldplay have ideas like that. Call me when Coldplay subvert anything.
...obviously you have never heard of sarcasm... but the personal judgemnts of you will take their pride of place in my heart. thank you kind sir...Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:"Sally Cinnamon" wasn't on the album. That one's from the Garner era, predates their Zomba deal.bunnyben wrote:all in all a poor album if one can forget made of stone and sally
'Poor'? Not as poor as the man whose ears are too jaded to hear one of the greatest records of all time for what it is. If you can get past the pasty hordes of clueless indie-disco go'ers who like one band for every letter in the alphabet - Stone Roses fits just nicely after Radiohead in the wall-mounted plastic wavy CD holder thingy and your friends will think you're cool when they come round and see what a badass indie tastemaker you are instead of some fake clone pop fan who likes Britney Spears or something corporate and sad like that, ooh yeah baby - that LP stands up with the best of any era. Save the indifference for crap like James -- The Stone Roses were a band to believe in, a passion.
p/s: I love "Second Coming" too. Always have.
Yeah, missed that. It's not always easy to tell, sorry. We need a 'sarky' emoticon.bunnyben wrote:...obviously you have never heard of sarcasm...
Dude, I go a bit tangential sometimes, the thing about wannabe tastemakers weren't meant 4 you ("you" in the rant not literally meaning you), just the CooperTemplehaircut-sporting hordes mentioned.bunnyben wrote:but the personal judgemnts of you will take their pride of place in my heart. thank you kind sir...
Sad? Why? It happens man! Hearing some of those tunes a few times a night, a few nights per week in a crazy shithole with punters doing the 'indie shuffle' will do that for almost anybody eventually! Give me a few years and no doubt they'll sound a bit fresher but not now.Spamuel wrote:
The bit about being jaded, err, I just meant anyone whose appreciation of the band has been blunted by overkill. That makes me sad.
Still sad tho! Just a shame that has to be the way with some stuff.Bza wrote:It happens man! Hearing some of those tunes a few times a night, a few nights per week in a crazy shithole with punters doing the 'indie shuffle' will do that for almost anybody eventually!
Now you're talking, those were always my faves anyways.Bza wrote:...like 'Badman' or 'Sugar Spun Sister'. Now there is a tune and a half.
Trying!Bza wrote:Top 10 albums anyone?
....Does sound like the band described as Primal Scream without the tunes or what Funkadelic would have sounded like had they shouted out from a modern urban hip London, but The Regular Fries always had the tunes to shoot a sky rockets up the backsides of Coldplay.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote: when the dinosaurs in shrines realised something was going on and that their choice was either to get on board or just get the fuck out of the way.
No way could i do that list, but ''War On Plastic Plants'' is kicking a hole in my head right now, plus i also love listening to One Giant Leap.BzaInSpace wrote: Top 10 albums anyone?
Cool, I dig. I've calmed down now. Burn on, dude.drones wrote:why i feel that The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses is not a top-ten all time fav and that i feel it is vastly overated. It's just a feeling. I don't try and make sense of it.
I'm very neandertal when it comes to music, as you can see. If i like something i'll growl with glee and if i don't i'll growl with disdain.
I have been tryin' honestly. I am strugglin' to find albums (in there entirety) that cut it.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:
Did you do a top10, droney? What's yer faves?
that's ok , i understand.Spamuel L. Jackson wrote:Yeah, missed that. It's not always easy to tell, sorry. We need a 'sarky' emoticon.bunnyben wrote:...obviously you have never heard of sarcasm...
Dude, I go a bit tangential sometimes, the thing about wannabe tastemakers weren't meant 4 you ("you" in the rant not literally meaning you), just the CooperTemplehaircut-sporting hordes mentioned.bunnyben wrote:but the personal judgemnts of you will take their pride of place in my heart. thank you kind sir...
The bit about being jaded, err, I just meant anyone whose appreciation of the band has been blunted by overkill. That makes me sad.
What's yer fave Bunnymen album, champ?
Respect! cheers mate, thats extremely high praise from someone whos so Educated and passionate about music!Si, you're a true believer, a music-lover of the 1st degree and a consistently level head around here (which latter is where I fail).
Long may you run.
if it wasn't for ocean... evergreen would be my fav alsoSpamuel L. Jackson wrote:"Evergreen" (really),,,,,,,,of the Defreitas era stuff, probably "Heaven Up Here".bunnyben wrote:...yourself?
I second the love for "Ocean Rain" tho.
Top choice. I think your others were albums we would all have chosen but this one is really an overlooked classic. Most people would have plumped for Carry On Up the Charts instead but this, as amazon would have it, "for consistent quality and stylistic variety ranks with their very best".Genius wrote:6. Blue Is The Colour - The Beautiful