Pining for the good old days (continuing Ian G's topic)

Post by **runcible** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:55 pm

Ian G made some very interesting points about older Spiritualized line ups and eras. Many people gave what I thought were very useful replies and I read them with some fascination. The question is...

Are fans of particular bands going to continually yearn for the 'good old days'? Will there always be an elitist side to enjoying a bands music? I guess what I'm getting at here is how many bands do you know who are just as good or even better than they used to be? I babble on merrily about Bardo Pond here on a regular basis. I've been into them for about 8 years, yet last night's gig was the best I have ever seen them, their recent material is on par with the high points of their catalogue and they seem to be just as incredible as I always felt they were. How many bands are there who manage to stay consistently brilliant? I can't think of many. In Spiritualized's case Jason managed it, for me anyway, for about 6 years, 1990-96, and then again from about early 98 til a couple of years ago. I'm part of the 'they're not as good as they used to be' brigade despite still counting myself as an obsessive fan. I know what I think isn't right but that's not the point. Which bands are there who can keep the quality unwavered for year after year?

slim · Post by **slim** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:10 pm

I'm a big Fall fan, and if you know anything about the Fall it's they have had lots of line-up changes (IIRC there has been over 40 members of the Fall over the last 25 years).

I know the Fall arn't for everybody, but to me they've usually come up with the goods, found a fresh angle and essentially made a noise that I like time after time, year after year, band after band. Some stuff is not as good as others but when you're on your 28th or 29th album, what do you expect.

Greeny · Post by **Greeny** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:10 pm

I personally think Radiohead seem to have cracked the consistency thing be being very brave (in commercial supergroup terms anyway) with the directions they take their music, showing an openness to all sorts of diverse music styles, as well as being extremely solid line-up wise.

The second night of their Earl's Court shows last year is the best gig I've ever been to. Period.

Just MHO of course....

roger plywood · Post by **roger plywood** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:24 pm

the bee gees.

i can't get enough of the goofy cunts.

nasty · Post by **nasty** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:40 pm

Sonic Youth are a band who for me maintain the quality in their material without continually treading old ground. As much as I rated daydream nation etc. in the late 80s, I've been impressed by pretty much every major release since.

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:50 pm

My music knowledge is no where near as broad as most on this board but now you've asked, I'm completely stumped. I can't think of any band who have managed to stay vital over long period or for more than 3 or 4 albums. I supoose Greeny has got a point with Radiohead, although I am not a fan. Maybe it is just the way of things that success doesn't breed creativity. Perhaps you need a bit of hunger which you probably wont have if you own 4 cars and a mansion.

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:17 pm

I think there are artists who have had more than 3 or 4 good albums over time, just maybe not all in a row. Neil Young, for example, has put out fantastic records since the late 60's. Sure there have been poor ones, but I think overall he's solid. I know my father loves his Neil and he thinks the new disc (greendale) is amazing, even went to see it live and he hasn't been to a live show since he took me to see gladys knight when i was about 10.
Dylan is another example, you've got his mid to late 60's period and his mid 70's masterpieces and then you have got his recent stuff which seems to be as well received as ever.
i don't know much zepplin but didn't just about all their records fair very well? or pink floyd, who have the syd barrett records and all the 70's and 80's hits? i don't know them well either but i know they had at least 4 big ones...and do live records count?

i realize there aren't many, but i think they do exist. there is another thing that confuses me a bit about this topic and that is what determines a quality record? reviews? sales? hardcore fan acceptance? take our band for example, has LGM really sold that many more copies than LICD? i still see people sign on here to rave about AG or live shows or to argue that LICD is the best spz release ever. i happen to genuinely relish all of them so in my opinion spz fit the criteria.

Post by **runcible** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:44 pm

Neil Young is a good shout actually, although he's not without his dullard records. But yes, a pretty consistent artist.

Led Zeppelin are also worth mentioning although In Through The Out Door is very ropey compared to everything else. To veer off into $26's point about no good double albums existing - Physical Grafitti is about as good double album I know. It's all really excellent IMHO.

Pink Floyd? Christ - what about those abominations released after Waters departure? The Final Cut was pretty awful too. Odd you mention Syd Barrett as I've been playing his stuff recently.

And you're right in that Spiritualized are definitely one of the more consistent bands. But when I compare the excitement I used to get in the days approaching a gig to how I feel when he plays now... well, its not the same as I don't believe the quality is as high. Last night I expected one hell of a show from Bardo Pond, and I got it (and more besides). I will expect the same again next time they play and would be surprised if they didn't deliver. That's why the first time I saw a bad Spiritualized show (LAGWAFIS tour, Astoria 1997) I was absolutely appalled as I had such expectations. I was grumpy about it for months! There was a moment which summed last night's Bardo Pond gig up for the strength and quality it contained. After 2 songs my companion and I were in such a state of delirium we suddenly realised we wouldn't be able to get any more drinks in as neither of us would be prepared to miss one second of the set. It requires something special to have such priority!

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:04 pm

But when I compare the excitement I used to get in the days approaching a gig to how I feel when he plays now

Completely understandable. when you first start a relationship of any sort it's always the best. it's new, it's fresh, it's exciting. after 2 years(or months or weeks) it's still better than watching the tv but it's not the same. same thing with most bands i think. they are the best when you first get into them and as you really get to know them(say 2, 3 albums on). after that, no matter how much the band changes, you are just too familiar with them and that's the point when things'll never be the same.

the fact that they play many of the same songs year after year, show after show doesn't help either. i'd look forward to the gigs a lot more if i thought they may bust into hypnotized or feel so sad from time to time

Heady · Post by **Heady** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:16 pm

Runcible, you should've asked me to get the drinks in for you last night - my friend and I took a slightly different view of Bardo Pond and decided to relocate to the bar for the rest of the night. I think it was the moment when the singer got down on her knees during the first verse of the third song....hmm. Guess that one passed me by.

But, you know, each to their own. Funny though, how people who can love one band can have completely opposite views on an other. But that's life...

However, at least that was better that than the Jackie O Motherfucker mob, I had heard great things about them but once I saw the kazoo I couldn't stop myself smiling and had to return to the bar. Again, though, each to their own.

Greeny · Post by **Greeny** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:19 am

Heh heh...we lasted precisely half a song of Jackie O Motherfucker as well....

Talking of the ICA the other night, did anyone else mingle with the celebs attending that Beck's Futures bash, and help themselves to loads of free Champers??

will this do? · Post by **will this do?** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:34 am

Blur...they were good for ages, and all their albums were good except mabe the last one...

Not sure what this post contributes to the topic as it all seems to be going a bit popbitch (people talking about being out? on the blag?...in that London?)

Greeny · Post by **Greeny** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:09 am

Sorry, should have made it a bit clearer that this Beck's thing was at the ICA on the same night as the Bardo Pond gig we were all at, so it was sort of relevant to Runcible and Heady....

will this do? · Post by **will this do?** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:16 am

S'alright, I got that, but they're talking about Becks Futures on the popbitch board today too...

(I'm sorry, it's quite funny, but I only lurk, I never post there!)

"I didn't see his cock"... hilarious catchphrase!

Post by **runcible** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:02 pm

Completely agree about Jackie O Motherfucker - what on earth was that all about? Much honking and farting clarinet noises and little else. That was the bit where I ended up in the bar.

Heady: of course we all have a different view. Christ - the guy next to us at the ICA said he 'preferred the first band' (which was the Jackie O thing!). I loved the Bardos the other night and can cope with clumsy slightly out of tune starts to songs (The Flaming Lips used to get away with at when they were at their peak).

Spaceline: the bit about not looking forward to Spiritualized dates as much referred to the fact that there are few acts that can keep up your enthusiasm. What you're talking about is the same as that that old Flaming Lips song 'Hit Me Like You Did The First Time' - that initial blast of pleasure rarely being equalled. My point is that I felt just as elated by Bardo Pond on this outing as I ever did and that's 8 years down the line. They've kept my excitement up to the same level - in fact I'd say they've exceeded my initial feelings as I regard them as better than ever. I can't say that about many bands.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:24 pm

runcible wrote:Completely agree about Jackie O Motherfucker - what on earth was that all about? Much honking and farting clarinet noises and little else. .

Theyre awful aren't they? For me they completely fail to connect emotionally, yet space jazz madness normally appeals to me. Is it a fashion thing?

Bollocks man, they're for the likes of Wire magazine to drool over ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also regarding main thread...

I'll tell you who's 'kept it up'

for a long time... Prince.

As a writer, arranger, producer, singer, multi-instramentalist and artist for how long?

I don't believe he's ever made a bad album, some are better than others and weirdly, the one album that always appears in TOP 100s by clueless white music journalists ('Sign O' The Times') remains for me one his least satisfying.

Some of my favourites include 'GOLD', 'FOR YOU' , 'PURPLE RAIN', 'PARADE', 'ONE NITE ALONE', 'COME', 'OLD FRIENDS FOR SALE'... too many to mention. But play PARADE... it will make tour life better. No higher recommendation. Even if you don't like Prince i'm sure you would like this...

Prince writes a song a day, and has a real life vault of songs....
1000s of songs heard by NO ONE.

Unreleased sessions with Miles...

Last year he released an album called 'N.E.W.S' ... four 14 minute tracks, largely instrumental. Amazing and funky!

Also THE RAINBOW CHILDREN from a couple of years back is unbelievably good, the title track is a must-hear in itself, and shows Prince's mastery of the electric guitar... ghost of Hendrix...Hazell...liquid fire...1983...

Also as a good starter find 'THE HITS/THE BSIDES which is a 3 cd set going for fuck all now... you can get them seperately but lose the B-SIDES but then you'd miss out on 'SCARLET PUSSY' and 'FEEL U UP' and the delightful 'HORNY PONY'.

And if you want to hear the greatest! Ever! Prince song search out 'Crystal Ball'... the eleven minute version. Mad, Flips through so many changes, orchestras etc. MIND BLOWING. Truly scary lyrics, and one of the most hypnotic, drugged out songs ever....

Sorry to froth but my anticipation of any new Prince music (usually once a year) is always rewarded.

Hope he plays some festivals.

0)+> !

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:55 pm

Super Furry Animals have released six proper studio albums so far and all have been superb! Not to mention the b-sides collection, Out-Spaced AND the forthcoming remix album, Phantom Phorce, which is out next month.

I agree that Radiohead have maintained extremely high-quality output, other than their first album, which is pretty middle-of-the-road.

What about:

The Verve ~ I like all of their album and most of the b-sides
The Smiths ~ almost EVERY SONG in their entire catalogue is a winner Slowdive ~ some don't like Pygmalion, but I enjoy it quite a bit
Bowie ~ from Man of Words/Man of Music through Scary Monsters
The Charlatans ~ maybe they've released a few so-so albums (ie Us & Us Only), but they've never released a dud.

Comments on those?

appledelphy · Post by **appledelphy** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:27 pm

comments? ok..

the verves last album sucks..(the b-sides are better) I have had it 3 times (legal copies) but not anymore - still getting new early boots though

the smiths - ok but they were quite young when they quit

bowie - agreed he actually improved in his early thirties..then suddenly letÂ´s crap happened

charlatans - I enjoy us and us only a lot

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:08 pm

appledelphy wrote:
charlatans - I enjoy us and us only a lot

Me too. I think Us and Us only was their best album in ages. Its their new one I was really disappointed in. Why does Tim Burges feel he has to sing in a stupid falsetto voice these days? Its even more annoying than the guy from Mercury Rev doing it.

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:16 pm

here's another vote for Us & Us Only, it's the only Charlatans album i really like(tellin' stories was ok). i don't know much about the band, but i know some fans used to tell me that us & us only was merely Tim's poor Dylan imitation but i actually thought it was pretty darn good. Blind Stagger is one of my favorite tunes period.

jess farr · Post by **jess farr** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:47 pm

Bza 's correct, Prince has kept it up longer than anyone.
glad to see somebody else digs his shit, to me he's the best guitarist alive: hands down.
Agree about Parade, one of his finest. your crazy if you dont like Sign o"the Times. also worth mentioning; Around the world in a day, the Black Album, Emancipation.
did you happen to catch the hall of fame induction the other night? He did a guitar solo on 'My Guitar Gently Weeps' that blew my mind.

Post by **runcible** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:36 pm

No one has mentioned the Beatles yet (leave the solo stuff for now) have they? You can't argue with the fact that quality songs appeared on every album they made and despite their career length being short compared to many artists we've listed the consistency was pretty remarkable.

Other notables, whose catalogue is brief, would probably include the Stooges, Nirvana and the Velvets although another debate could start on whether the final Squeeze album should be included there.

As I'm so ludicrously narrow minded when it comes to music from the last decade or two I have little or no interest in most of what has been listed in this thread but I tend to avoid replying to posts where I think the music that has been mentioned is poor. I would add that I hated Urban Hymns by Verve but list both the 1st 2 albums as among my all time favourites. I like a couple of songs by The Charlatans but took offence at a couple of Burgess interviews. Not a Radiohead fan either but I have enjoyed a few songs. Bowie's interesting period recording wise stopped for me after Scary Monsters. Smiths, bar Panic and How Soon Is Now, didn't interest me.

Prince? Wow - a strange little change of direction. I can have some admiration for the guy's talent, no question, but find his music too synthetic although I did own Purple Rain when it came out. The thing that I can't get away from is that I really loathe that whole showbizz celebrity lifestyle he was part of in the 80s. Those artists that regard themselves as being 'above' the audience really do repulse me. 80s glam metal bands treating groupies like shit... That whole Hip-Hop 'let's drink Cristal through a straw' thing... Barbara Streisand refusing to inhabit a dressing room unless there were rose petals sprinkled in the toilet... JLo bringing 2 masseuses and an eyebrow technician on her publicity tour... PDiddy inspecting his guests fingernails before admitting them to his parties... All highly offensive behaviour. The 'do you know who I am?' brigade. That whole superior thing simply casts whoever is responsible in a very poor light as far as I'm concerned and for me Prince was the epitomy of it for quite a while.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:47 pm

runcible wrote: As I'm so ludicrously narrow minded when it comes to music from the last decade or two I have little or no interest in most of what has been listed in this thread but I tend to avoid replying to posts where I think the music that has been mentioned is poor. I like a couple of songs by The Charlatans but took offence at a couple of Burgess interviews.

Just out of curiousity, what did Tim Burgess say that offended you? He seems fairly humble ... I met him a few years back after a gig and he was pretty cool.

Why do you think it is that so many people are narrow-minded regarding music that isn't 20 or more years old? I often run into people like that. I really feel that there is an enormous amount of quality music being made these days, you just have to be willing to dig a bit to find a lot of it.

jason_godman · Post by **jason_godman** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:44 pm

I totally agree with SFA. That's what I was going to say before the warmth pointed it out. So consistent and not consistently ok, but consistently brilliant. Going to see them next week. Can't wait.

Adovadotchka · Post by **Adovadotchka** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:48 pm

I think that the older you get the less time you have to sort through all the mediocre crap out there to find the really good stuff...if I had a pile of money I would hire someone to do it for me.

Post by **runcible** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:25 pm

There were a couple of Burgess things that irritated me but they were so long ago I can only really recall one although a lot of the early interviews were pretty arrogant. When The Charlatans toured the US the first time they were made to change their name to The Charlatans UK as the name clashed with one of the first ever psychedelic bands who hailed from California in 1966 (may even have been earlier - $26?). The original Charlatans importance and influence is without question although their music ended up being slightly left behind once the more famous bands were in full flow. I saw Tim Burgess interviewed about this name change and he was most pissed off saying it was 'because of some bunch of 60's no hopers'. Being right in the middle of a 'let's listen to the origins of Californian psychedelia' this struck as being so pompous it stayed in my memory.

By the way its the gorgeous 'Opportunity' from the first Charlatans (UK) album that I love. The other stuff doesn't do anything for me, and I felt rather alone when everyone else thought 'The Only One I Know' was the greatest thing ever while I sat yawning throughout.

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:41 pm

I wish I could remember the old days.......

did anyone see spz at the Dance Weekender at Finsbury Park? that was a wicked year..... I think it was a couple of weeks after they played Phoenix.
I remember bits....

andyblacktoo · Post by **andyblacktoo** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:34 am

speaking of old spiritualized line ups,

i stood in a pub in northampton last friday night and watched mark refoy, jon mattock and ray dickaty complete an ace slipstream set, whilst will carruthers and the jazz butcher propped up the bar in applause....

pure genuis, an ace night

Starfish · Post by **Starfish** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:01 pm

Are they still going by the name of Slipstream?

Give us a shout next time they're playing

andyblacktoo · Post by **andyblacktoo** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:17 pm

they certainly are, although both spend most of their time busy with other projects. mark has sunshine valley dance band and the pet shop boys, whilst jon mattock has lupine howl

it was an ace gig by the way

gig review

http://www.jazzbutcher.com/htdb/gigs/2004/Apr2.html

best to look here

http://www.slipstreamweb.co.uk/index.htm

or here

http://www.sunshinevalleydanceband.com/

ericdbn · Post by **ericdbn** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:19 pm

The Brian Jonestown Massacre consistently put out one great album after another... I think 'And This Is Our Music' may be the best so far. With the exception of 'Thank God For Mental Illness' I don't think there's a weak one in the bunch.

Haven't heard the new one, but I've never been disappointed by Monster Magnet either.

As far as 'the good old days' of Spiritualized... I remember being disappointed when Pure Phase came out seeing as how half the album were reinterpretations of Spacemen 3 and EP tracks. I think the last three albums rank right up there with Lazer Guided.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:34 pm

Interesting post.

Brian Jonestown Massacre records are all good Some even great.

Monster Magnet have been dissappointing consistently post Spine Of God.
I find it all unlistenable.

Post by **runcible** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:43 pm

I'd agree with the BJM stuff but I only have 2 gigs to go on, but I would say their albums are remarkably consistent and the last is as good as ever.

And I'd agree with spzretent about Monster Magnet too. They played some of the best gigs I've ever seen in the earlyish 90s, then one time I went and it was limp and dull. Plus they'd dropped Black Mastermind from the set which was a cardinal sin. You can scrape a few moments from Superjudge but Spine of God was the end of the line really despite them being good live for a while after.

ericdbn · Post by **ericdbn** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:01 pm

I wouldn't want to live in a world without Dave Wyndorf.

Staying on subject, I think Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds are as good as ever. The last album was a bit of a letdown, but 'No More Shall We Part' is as strong as anything put out in the last five years. I was at the Chicago Theatre for the last tour and it was amazing.

Primal Scream's another band that's been pretty consistent (although it's been close to 10 years and 'Give Out But Don't Give Up' still hasn't grown on me).

I totally disagree with both the Prince and Sonic Youth posts. Most of their stuff in the mid-to-late '90s was self-indulgent. I would take '85-'89 Sonic Youth and '82-'88 Prince over today's versions. I think Murray Street and Washing Machine were OK...but compared to Evol and Daydream Nation? And you can't say anything Prince has put out since LoveSexy can compare to what he put out before that. I'll be seeing Prince in June because he's promising a final look back at the good old days... even HE wants to get back there.

One Asian Under A Groove · Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:52 am

The Super Furries were gonna have my vote too, but here are a few other suggestions:

The Chemical Brothers - Come With Us was a little disappointing, but only because of the quality of albums that preceded it. Exit Planet Dust's opening half is still fantastic, as is Life Is Sweet; Dig Your Own Hole just rocks like a big bastard, and The Private Psychedelic Reel is mindblowing; their mix album Brothers Gonna Work It Out is actually my favourite Chemicals album; Surrender was the soundtrack to the first summer of uni and holds very happy memories for me; Come With Us is worth having for Star Guitar alone (what a video); and I really liked the two new tracks on their Best Of. I do think they peaked with The Private Psychedelic Reel, but they're still very listenable.

David Holmes - this may be cheating a little, given that I'm including his mix albums... I don't really listen to This Film's Crap Lets Slash The Seats that much, because I prefer his funkier stuff that started with Let's Get Killed. His Essential Mix double CD is inspired, although the Essential Mix that he did which was actually broadcast on Radio 1 is even better. The Out Of Sight soundtrack is pretty effortlessly cool, but Bow Down To The Exit Sign sounds like he was trying a little too hard to do this whole "soundtrack to an unmade film" stuff (69 Police is phenomenal though). The Ocean's 11 soundtrack is very classy and suits the film perfectly. And then there's Come Get It I Got It, which introduced me to the Staple Singers, and his Free Association album which is deliriously funky.