SUICIDE

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:38 pm

Got a hold of the first album the other week. Have to say I found it piss boring. Did sound ahead of its time I must admit. Thern I never have been into futuristic shite.

Starfish · Post by **Starfish** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:57 am

But "Cheree" is lovely. You can definitely see the influence on the Spacemen/Spiritualized sound.

Frankie Teardrop is plain scary, especially if taken with hallucinogens.

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:56 pm

ORBITAL, maybe you should get the wax out of your ears and give it a proper listen....

How anybody can call Ghost Rider, Rocket U.S.A., Cheree, Frankie Teardrop et al BORING is beyond me ! Minimal maybe but not boring.
All the songs on that album greatly influenced Spacemen 3, especially Playing With Fire.

they were true innovators, ie punks.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Opinions eh?
I agree with some of the oints you both made. About the inflluence on SP3/SPZ and also about them bein innovative which I alluded to in my initial message.
Listened toit a few times and tried to get into it.
Again the Key word was 'boring' JUst didnt excite me. Maybe its for listening to at a certain time. MAybe it wasnt the right time for me.

roger plywood · Post by **roger plywood** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:00 pm

ORBITAL wrote:Got a hold of the first album the other week. Have to say I found it piss boring. Did sound ahead of its time I must admit. Thern I never have been into futuristic shite.

you aint seen my tron t-shirt then orbital. it's the pinnacle of futuristic shite.

purespace · Post by **purespace** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:02 pm

I have to chime in here with Orbital. I've tried many times to get into Suicide over the past few years based on recommendations from folks on the board but just couldn't. Alan Vega's spastic vocals on Rocket USA w/Spz on the NME Clean Sweep CD is painful to listen to and sometimes embarrassing even when I'm listening to it alone. Perhaps they were very innovative/ahead of their time, but they sound dated and cheesy today. Props for those that they influenced though.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:48 pm

NO roger....The pinnacle of Futuristic shite would be the digital 007 watch I got in the early 80's that played the theme tune that would have been more suited to 00wankstick.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:48 pm

Saying that is was more interesting than said album

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:10 pm

I have an awful lot of Suicide material. During my more desperate days I really liked them, although there were a few years when I didn't have the records as my copies were on tape and they wore out. But I've found that when I'm straight and sober the results are pretty tiresome. The poppier numbers - Johnny and Cheree, for example - have aged really well - they sound a bit silly but really enjoyable - and Frankie Teardrop is still a gripper if not necessarily musically interesting, but the rest of the records, especially the first one, are difficult to sit through, not simply because they're 'ferocious' (which it really isn't), but because the music becomes repetitious in a way that's not necessarily hypnotic. (Apologies for the preceeding Henry James-grade sentence.) Periodically I play them again with renewed interest but generally they're a memory to me, not an active force, and I can fully understand and largely agree with any criticism.

roger plywood · Post by **roger plywood** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:43 pm

ORBITAL wrote:NO roger....The pinnacle of Futuristic shite would be the digital 007 watch I got in the early 80's that played the theme tune that would have been more suited to 00wankstick.

sorry orbital, i stand corrected. 007 watches fuckin' rule man.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:14 pm

Thats a fair point about the music bein rpetitious without bein hypnotic 26. Fair shout. There has been music that Ive not relly fancied when Ive been in straight and thought it may be better to stick on when Im mashed. Suicide didnt seem like music I would enjoy in either state.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:33 pm

wow orbital, nice set of balls for starting this thread. yes they were innovative, yes they have influenced countless amounts of bands, and yes some of their music sounds extremely dated. BUT, alot of people say the same thing about VU. I think both bands you either get or you don't, cheers for being honest.

xxshonnxxx

p.s. i still don't like mars volta

nicolai · Post by **nicolai** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:31 pm

suicide is on of the best bands ever. looks like $26 is being an old fart here. suicide is for the 70's what the velvets was in the 60's and what the mary chain was in the 80's. suicide still doesn't sound like anything else though it's easy to hear who they inspired. suicide is desperate and nervous rock'n'roll with an attitude no-one ever can beat. martin rev's static way of playing style and alan vega's elvis from hell vocals. they pushed the borders and they still do.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:18 am

nicolai wrote:suicide is for the 70's what the velvets was in the 60's and what the mary chain was in the 80's.

I don't think that's a valid statement. Suicide didn't nearly have the breadth of styles and tones that the VU had. Neither did the Mary Chain, but at least they had some dynamics. As I mentioned, Suicide gets really monotonous, in the literal sense, repetitive without being hypnotic. And anyway, Suicide were as influenced by the VU - fifties approach to an 'avantgarde' aesthetic - as anyone. I don't argue that their records are necessarily dated, just not that interesting.

Old fart? Come on, Nicolai. Just how old do you think I am?

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:21 am

get off it $26, you gotta be pushin' 40!

xxxshonnxxx

Ian Goodchild · Post by **Ian Goodchild** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:36 pm

Suicide good things:
(1). Most of the first LP...Ghost Rider, Rocket USA, Girl, Cheree, Johnny are pioneering, were absolutely revolutionary at the time, and are fantastic tunes in their own right, then and now.
(2). The reissue of the first LP by Mute: all of the songs slightly remixed/enhanced, addition of 'Keep Your Dreams' and a bonus CD of live material - 'Mr Ray' is great! The lyrics go: 'My name is Mr Ray/And I'm a cop/an' I'll bust your fuckin' head in.'

(3). The fact that Spiritualized, Spacemen 3 and Spectrum have covered/stolen from all of the best Suicide songs:
Spacemen 3 - Che (Revolution B-side)
- Suicide (every song on Red Star - BTW, $26 you were
right on the credits issue. It was just Kember/Pierce)
Spiritualized - Rocket USA (live in 1998, and yes it sucks)
- Metatron [okay, it's a Martin Rev solo tune, but listen
to this, then listen to 'Take your Time'...just a bit similar)
Spectrum - Rock n' Roll is Killing my Life (on 'Spectrum' LP)
- Girl (played live several times)

(4). Lots of good bands have also covered them: JAMC, Primal Scream etc.

(5). The second LP wasn't too bad.

(6). Alan Vega's solo stuff can be pretty amazing, as has his collaborative work with PanSonic, Revolutionary Corps of Teenage Jesus (whose Frankie Teardrop remix is ear-bleedingly good). Martin Rev's 'Clouds f Glory' is damn good too.

The bad things:
(1). Although their first LP was a pioneering, near work of genius, as a band they were, and are limited, and not comparable to say, Velvets, MC5, Stooges. They're nowhere near Kraftwerk either.

(2). Live, they're awful. When I went to see them in London for 'The Kings of the 2-1-2 return' gig a few years back, they just made a noise, and Vega spluttered 'poetry' over a wheezy analogue synth. Although I had a slash in the toilet, standing next to Morrisey (Nick Cave, Jarvis Cocker, half of Primal Scream and various other luminaries were there at the gig) it was a dispiriting experience.

(3). Those silly shades they wear look like cataract glasses.

Still, I have great affection for Suicide

. They are an important band, and I'd unhesitatingly recommend LP 1 ...it kicks ass in fine style.

nicolai · Post by **nicolai** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:24 pm

Suicide have a different approach no matter how monotone or simple their music is/was. They have pushed the music in ways no-one else could have done, yes Kraftwerk did push too, and I don't give them less credit, but Suicide pushed the music in another way.

Ian G.: Martin Rev's shades have always been dead cool.

Listen to Ghost Riders. (the live casette/cd on ROIR)

roger plywood · Post by **roger plywood** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:26 pm

nicolai wrote:Suicide have a different approach no matter how monotone or simple their music is/was. They have pushed the music in ways no-one else could have done, yes Kraftwerk did push too, and I don't give them less credit, but Suicide pushed the music in another way.

Martin Rev's shades have always been dead cool.

yeah, so are bono's.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:58 pm

Ian G I respect the knowledge you have on the band. Again I agree with some points raised in your message as I have with others on the thread.
I just think that by tryin somthing diffent with the technology they chose to use they might have done somthing a bit less monotonous. Im not talkin about layers an layers more. I guess thats not what thery were about.
Maybe a lttle more consideration to melody texture etc might have made it more interesting to me. Again...just mty opinion.

Post by **runcible** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:30 pm

All rather interesting.

I'd agree with Orbital to a certain extent in that much of Suicide's appeal is as a reference point although I do like a lot of the 1st album. Without Suicide I can't imagine what Spacemen 3 would have sounded like. Their influence on Pete Kember is immense - the first time he came to my place I was selling records and he pulled out every Suicide record in stock for himself. Appreciating Suicide as a reference point works in the same way, for me, as a lot of the Velvets stuff; everyone raves about the 3rd album and it doesn't do that much for me, yet I can appreciate its worth and significance.

I don't, however, agree with the criticism about Suicide's 'texture' at all as I think most of their feel is about texture.

Finally large hats off to Ian Go for mentioning Martin Rev's Metatron which is utterly extraordinary and combines Suicide's basic chord structure with what I always thought The Orb were trying to do and failing miserably. Drone/ambience at its best and rather advanced for its time. I can't recommend that track enough although God knows where you'd find that album nowadays...

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:59 pm

The Orb are touring soon. HAvent followed their path carefully but thought it may be interesting to go see. Anyone vouch for em.

By the way. Im gona try the suicide stuff again under diferent labratory conditions and see what the results are.

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:18 pm

ghostrider, motorcycle hero
bebebebebebebe he's lokkin' so cute
sneakin' round round round in a blue jumpsuit

ghostrider motorcycle hero
bebebebebebebe he's a-blazin' away
packin' stars stars stars in the universe

ghostrider motorcycle hero
bebebebebebebe he's a-screamin' the truth
america america is killin' its youth
bebebebebebebe he's a-sceamin' away
america america is killin' its youth
america america is killin' its youth

whooooooppth !!

The coolest fuckin' monotonous rock'n'roll song EVER!

AND it's fucking hypnotic! In my FUCKING opinion !!!

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:34 pm

Ian Goodchild wrote:Revolutionary Corps of Teenage Jesus (whose Frankie Teardrop remix is ear-bleedingly good).

I heard John Peel play a song which was a Suicide cover/remix in the mid 90's. I'm wondering if this is it but I'm pretty sure the song he played wasn't Frankie Teardrop. I only heard it once and it was awesome...

Starfish · Post by **Starfish** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:10 am

runcible wrote:Finally large hats off to Ian Go for mentioning Martin Rev's Metatron . I can't recommend that track enough although God knows where you'd find that album nowadays...

I guess on the recording of JP's Breezeblock set (can't remember which one)

veiko · Post by **veiko** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:54 pm

Starfish wrote:
runcible wrote:Finally large hats off to Ian Go for mentioning Martin Rev's Metatron . I can't recommend that track enough although God knows where you'd find that album nowadays...
I guess on the recording of JP's Breezeblock set (can't remember which one)

it was on Pierce first breezeblock set. 1998.

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:01 pm

I think I was a lil drunk last nite.... :-/

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:40 pm

veiko wrote:
Starfish wrote:
runcible wrote:Finally large hats off to Ian Go for mentioning Martin Rev's Metatron . I can't recommend that track enough although God knows where you'd find that album nowadays...
I guess on the recording of JP's Breezeblock set (can't remember which one)
it was on Pierce first breezeblock set. 1998.

YES... it's magnificent isn't it? .... for those turned off by Vega's vocals Martin Rev's 'CLOUDS OF GLORY' is the place to be...

I heard 'Metatron' at least a year before any Suicide material.

Am I the only person here who likes the Spiritualized/Suicide live version of 'Rocket USA'?

About 5 mins in it gets really intense... again Vega is all over it but I like the random swearing....."FFFAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCK"

Its a lot better than the Spiritualized/Sonic Youth track... 'Soup' I believe its called.

SUICIDE are great, but people can REALLY hate them... I saw a girl CRY at 'Frankie Teardrop' once.... i've seen people laugh at them too!

Just a pity Suicide were responsible for every keyboard/singer duo... that means Erasure and, God help us, A.R.E. Weapons........

(also known as AAARRRRGGGHH! Weapons....)

TIP FOR THE TOP - 23 MINUTES OVER BRUSSELS

Post by **runcible** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 6:37 pm

You're right on the bit about people hating Vega and Rev. At some show at the Forum (then Town and Country Club) a few years back I think they were supporting someone like Pop Will Eat Itself. People threw stuff at them such as lit fags, beer etc. At one point someone managed to get the whole of the pane of glass from the gents toilet window (which was huge apparently) and flung that at them too. Doesn't bear thinking about if they'd hit them really. But then there are twats everywhere I guess...

Clownbait · Post by **Clownbait** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:40 pm

Suicide have a new live album coming out on Sympathy

http://www.sympathyrecords.com/news/index.html

Jebus Sabes · Post by **Jebus Sabes** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:36 am

In a similar vein, would anyone recommend The Silver Apples? I downloaded their 'Program' song (after hearing tasty covers from Low and Windy&Carl), and quite liked it. What's their early material like? I understand they've done some recent albums as well, and some material with Sonic Boom.

Juzba · Post by **Juzba** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:36 pm

Anyone listened to the Half-alive album by suicide?
Worth getting?
Love the first album, a true fucking classic! Can't praise the Mute re-release highly enough, the bonus disc is probably the best of its kind ever. It's the kind of disc you'd buy even separately.

Someone mentioned PanSonic and their collaboration with Alan...
While Endless is a good album, I really enjoy Pan sonic's own stuff even more. Suicide have clearly been their single most important influence (I could have sworn the first track on suicide's 1st album's bonus disc was Pansonic). While it's debatable if Pan Sonic is even music, it's one of the most enjoyable, original and interesting acts out there. You should also definately chech out Mika and Ilpo's solo work. Bought the new solo 12" by Mika , called Happi, a couple of months ago. Fantastic ep.

Ian Goodchild · Post by **Ian Goodchild** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:27 pm

Did someone say Silver Apples? And genius? Oh, yes. Buy the Contact CD [+] - where their first two LPs were reissued on one CD about two years ago (around the time Sonic had kind of exhumed them for collaborative work on 'A Lake of Teardrops' on Space Age, which was bloody awful), and they have a magnificent selection of songs on them 'Oscillations' in particular is ten years ahead of Kraftwerk, and has some of the most amazing drums, 'I have Known Love' is beautiful and has been plagiarised by Sonic Boom, Spiritualized, the Chemical Brothers, Flaming Lips and a million others. Truly great. 'A pox on you' is also on there and sounding superb.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:46 am

I too will salute the Silver Apples. Their first album in particular is deliciously entertaining and years ahead of its time. They also would appear to have the sonic depth and breadth and diversity that I've often noted is absent in Suicide. I am also of the minority opinion that "Lake of Teardrops" is OK, better than most of Petesey's recent output.

mbv · Post by **mbv** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:05 pm

Juzba wrote:Anyone listened to the Half-alive album by suicide?
Worth getting?

it's definately worth getting if you like the first album. The sound is pretty good, mine's on clear vinyl so the CD should sound more than ok. I haven't played it for years but from what I remember I would recomend it for sure. There is a lot of stuff not on the first album such as Cool as Ice and it's got Sister Ray.
It's amazing that they started as a band in '71/'72 and it took them 4 or 5 years to get a deal. Same with all those CBGB's bands I guess, record industry scum didn't want to touch 'em.

SUICIDE

SUICIDE

Re: SUICIDE