I Love Spiritualized

[toomilk]

Seriously now.

How many people consider Spiritualized their favorite band of all time.

You may call me naive, but all things considered, Spiritualized are by far my favorite band ever.


Thoughts?

[purespace]

yes. addicted since 1991 and it's utterly ridiculous according to my mate.

[Gruff]

yeh, I'd say certainly out of bands which are 'still with us' Spz are my favourite.

Of all time? maybe-especially if 'solo artists' were not allowed.

[Zenchan]

Definitely my most favourite "still active" band.

[angelsighs]

Yep, it sounds kind of lame on a Spiritualized message board but thinking about it there's no other band who tick all the boxes for me, and move me in the same way. They go across the whole musical spectrum, doing both pulsating drone rock and exquisitely arranged 'proper songs' equally as well. Can anyone think of any other candidates for that honour? Plus i love the whole aesthetic that Jason has constructed- the light show, the record sleeves etc.

They are an obsession, but a worthwhile one- every bootleg and B side that is uncovered I find endlessly rewarding. Especially the live shows.

The only other band that comes close for me is The Verve- in the same ball park sonically, but because they never changed members they have the added allure of the whole "we're a gang" band myth that I fall for every time, and the whole bildungsroman schtick that surrounds them.


Out of interest Gruff, which solo artists would pip Spiritualized to the post?

[Gruff]

I'm a Zappaholic-I find his music so essential to life that it's worry to think he recorded songs called "I promise not to come in your mouth" and "Why does it hurt when I pee?".

Woody Guthrie I adore and find him a true inspiration.

I love Charles Mingus-the raw eccentricity and energy.

I couldn't say that they would definately pip Spz to the post-but it would be a tough call between these four for first place.

I've revised my opinion about SPz from the last post now though-yes indeed they must be my most favourite band of all time. I was wondering about The Stone Roses, Guns N Roses, Pentagon maybe tweaking them but a) I haven't listened to The STone Roses for ages now and they've kinda lost their shine b) Guns aren't quite varied enough (not that you'd want them to be mind you) and nor are Pentagon.

[flamingrev]

My favorite is Ween.

Then the Flaming Lips and Spiritualized are tied for second place.

Low and Wilco right below that.

[angelsighs]

My favorite is Ween.

Then the Flaming Lips and Spiritualized are tied for second place.

Low and Wilco right below that.

oohh.. I'm just getting into Wilco recently, going through a great honeymoon period where i've found a great band who have somehow passed me by, and gobbling up their back catalogue. Their show at ATP was one of the best shows i've ever seen. Time will tell, but I can definitely see them rising up the ranks of 'favourite bands'

[a beautiful noise]

nope, they (spz) could never pass the velvet underground for me.


sorry jase, i'm sure he'd understand.



me.

[spzretent]

as a live unit no one i've seen touches Spiritualized. Especially on a consistent basis.
as far as favorite bands of all time? They are up there but the Rolling Stones and The Band trump them in my book.
They would follow as would Verve and the noisy (pre performance art)Lips era and Mercury Rev too.

[Shaun]

Seriously now.

How many people consider Spiritualized their favorite band of all time.

Thoughts?

No don't even come close. I love a gig by them more than most other bands i'd go and see (with a few exceptions) but as for my favourite band, then no way.

Don't even come close to 'The The' imo, and Matt Johnson is a better songwriter than Jason Pierce too, a lot better.

[spzretent]

Don't even come close to 'The The' imo, and Matt Johnson is a better songwriter than Jason Pierce too, a lot better.

[jadams501]

I really can't foresee anyone passing Bob Dylan for me, followed by a tie of Verve and the works of J Spaceman for a combination of musicianship, lyrics, insight, philosophy, and other aesthetics. Then comes Springsteen and the Roses.

I also dearly love all sorts of old school music: Woody, Blind Willie Johnson, Robert Johnson, Son House, Bessie Smith, etc.

I think we need to draw the line between solo performers and "bands" per se... I think I personally tend towards artists with a singular, uncompromised aesthetic more than bands as democratic musical units... only when the chemistry and interplay is truly spectacular (Verve, Roses, Embrace) do the bands shine through.



p.s. I think I'll be more ready to say I love Spz when they RELEASE A NEW ALBUM or TOUR NORTH AMERICA (!)

p.p.s. Embrace was a joke.

[ash]

I've been of the same mind for a good many years now - the quality of the studio albums and the sheer mindblowing nature of the live shows put them right at the top in my book. It's nice not having to spend an hour thinking about it when someone asks you "what's your favourite band?". It's just a shame that the "band" has never had a long term, stable lineup.

The Smiths and Super Furries would come mightily close, though...

[Greeny]

Bit of a toss-up between Radiohead and Spiritualized for me

Radiohead score for the best gig I've been to (Earl's Court 2003) but on a future night that they were clashing (heaven forbid) I reckon I'd go for Spiritualized.

Mogwai used to be in the mixer, but they've been utter shite the last two times I've seen them.

I also totally get Jig's point about The The - I love listening to Jason's songs, but I *feel* Matt Johnson's....

The The's show at Brixton on the Nakedself tour was right up there for me, right up there.

[runcible]

- Spacemen 3 are my favourite ever band.

- Spiritualized are the most amazing live act I've seen, as well as being the band I have seen live most.

- Few bands have reached that point live where you feel removed from your surroundings such is the power of the music: Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, The Heads, Bardo Pond, Flaming Lips (up to '96), Stereolab (up to '96), Verve.

- Led Zeppelin are the best band that has ever existed.

- The Heads and Bardo Pond are the best bands in existence today.

[twentysixdollars]

- Led Zeppelin are the best band that has ever existed.

...with the possible exception of all the better ones!

[Shaun]

I also totally get Jig's point about The The - I love listening to Jason's songs, but I *feel* Matt Johnson's....

Greeny, you summed up exactly what i meant... I don't get that with Jason's songs (bar a few) like i do with Matt Johnson's. It's always been that way. If the two clashed at a festival it'll be easy to decide who to see, The The of course.

The The's show at Brixton on the Nakedself tour was right up there for me, right up there.

Now i did see The The on that tour but it wasn't there. I can't think why i didn't go to that at Brixton... Unbelievable gig, really intense and it was probably the best gig i saw that year.....Man i wish i had gone to that one at Brixton.

I did however see The The at Brixton Academy in 1993 on the Lonely Planet tour. Well it was sort of a one off date on that tour, the only British gig in the summer of 1993 (and i got an excellent copy of it on a bootleg). Fantastic and it remains equal best gig i have seen at that venue, the other being Spiritualized in 2002. Perhaps best of all time anywhere, ever.


Spzretent, how can you be shocked by that ?

[jack white]

i LOVE Amazing Grace & Let It Come Down!

beat that!


Spiritualized would maybe make my top 5 (if i was allowed to put Dylan @ 1). Guns & and the Stones would maybe be above them - well Guns WOULD be (they'd be kickin' and screamin' at Bob for the #1 slot) while Love & The Stooges would be pushing for spaces in the top 5.
and then there's Neil and Bo! oh god!
but i do love spiritualized with a lot of my heart. and i REALLY love this trip Jason is on with the new material. it blows my mind.

[natty]

Spacemen 3 are still my favourite band ever. For so many reasons.

Bardo Pond and Spiritualized are the best live acts I've seen, but Bardo Pond's records, great though they are, pale in comparison to their live sound.

[Greeny]

I also totally get Jig's point about The The - I love listening to Jason's songs, but I *feel* Matt Johnson's....

Greeny, you summed up exactly what i meant... I don't get that with Jason's songs (bar a few) like i do with Matt Johnson's. It's always been that way. If the two clashed at a festival it'll be easy to decide who to see, The The of course.

The The's show at Brixton on the Nakedself tour was right up there for me, right up there.

Now i did see The The on that tour but it wasn't there. I can't think why i didn't go to that at Brixton... Unbelievable gig, really intense and it was probably the best gig i saw that year.....Man i wish i had gone to that one at Brixton.

I did however see The The at Brixton Academy in 1993 on the Lonely Planet tour. Well it was sort of a one off date on that tour, the only British gig in the summer of 1993 (and i got an excellent copy of it on a bootleg). Fantastic and it remains equal best gig i have seen at that venue, the other being Spiritualized in 2002. Perhaps best of all time anywhere, ever.


Spzretent, how can you be shocked by that ?

Jig - if you fancy doing some sort of a trade for that The The booty, drop me a PM....

[spzretent]

[quote="Greeny"]


Spzretent, how can you be shocked by that ?

quote]

I just cant relate to Matt Johnson's lyrics. I own Soul Mining and Infected. But I cannot relate to them nearly as much as Spiritualized lyrics. Nor do they ever ger played as much as Spiritualized here.
just one mans opinion.

[angelsighs]

- Led Zeppelin are the best band that has ever existed.

...with the possible exception of all the better ones!

I'm siding with runcible here.. they are not my favourite band per se, but in an objective sense they must be up there as one of the best.

[moop]

like everyone else (i suspect) i'm pretty fickle when it comes to naming my favourite band. at different phases of time i guess any of the following could be it, but i hate the idea of fixing one as a permanent fixture.

dylan, beatles, boo radleys, earlier mercury rev / flips /verve, spiritualized, velvets, hendrix, yo la tengo, led zep, sabbath, dead meadow, neil young, beefheart, mansun, radiohead, gorky's zygotic mynci...and loads more i can't remember.

never really got into the the or the band; can't help but think i must be missing out on something important after all this hype

[twentysixdollars]

Well, if we're talking about all-time favorites, I think I've made myself clear that my favorite pop act of all time is The Byrds. It seems to me that, as far as rock bands go, they're easily the most important and influential after the Beatles and the Stones, and more importantly I prefer the sound of the Byrds - any Byrds pre '72 - to the sound of any other band, and the best Byrds album (NBB) occupies a place in the pantheon next to Astral Weeks and Forever Changes and What's Going On, a place where there are no Beatles or Stones albums. The Byrds existed in at least four distinct incarnations and each one released at least one absolutely essential album: Mr Tambourine Man for the Clark-era group; Notorious Byrd Brothers for the arty middle phase; Sweetheart of the Rodeo for the Parsons era; and Ballad of Easy Rider for the other-Parsons era. (And let's not forget Preflyte.) Not only were the Byrds - in their first two (possibly three) configurations at least - the most innovative rock band ever, they're also probably the most underrated. For me, nothing else has ever compared, and I've felt that way since I was about ten years old. I'll leave it to the nosier among us to figure out, then, how many years (decades!) it's been since I began exploring a recorded corpus that, incredibly, at once seems inconceivably huge and yet amounts ultimately to nothing more than eight hours of music, give or take.

Other acts and records have been of nonpareil importance to me at certain times in my life - not least Spiritualized in '95, The (!) Verve in '97 (no shit!), Sonny Rollins today. But the Byrds have always been there. Always. Undiminished in their splendor, always revealing something new, always rewarding my faith. Even their occasional disappointments - Younger than Yesterday, Untitled - their rare fuckups, ego trips and addle-pated comprimises - yield pleasures to me to a degree unimaginable for any other act.

Next time you hear a modal scale in a pop song, thank the Byrds. Next time you hear a pedal steel on a pop song, thank the Byrds. Next time you're listening to someone chunka-chunking that rhythm guitar, and in passing she plays a little choral suspension - ah-ah!-ah - without even thinking, en route to a chorus, thank the Byrds. Next time you hear a bass guitar doing anything halfway interesting - playing a countermelody, for example - thank the Byrds. Next time you hear some combination of jazz and 'rock' has some edge, some terror and wonder, that isn't just a low-voltage Sly ripoff, thank the Byrds. And next time ya play something remotely 'psychedelic', thank the Byrds, why dontcha?

[ononist]

Aw twentysix I've almost always thought you talk sense, or at least explain you're point of view very well, but Rollins....sheesh.

[Shaun]

I just cant relate to Matt Johnson's lyrics.

Growing up in 80's Britian did a lot to help relate to them.

just one mans opinion.

That's what it's all about, and respecting difference. Plus it's an opinion i respect.

[ORBITAL]

A shallot. Now thats an onion I respect.

[Shaun]

A shallot. Now thats an onion I respect.

^^^^^

Look, 3 on the stoat....

[runcible]

Well, if we're talking about all-time favorites, I think I've made myself clear that my favorite pop act of all time is The Byrds.

Here we go again...

they're easily the most important and influential after the Beatles and the Stones

What? More than The Velvets? Or (despite your dislike) the Stooges? MC5? Without those last 3 there'd have been no punk, which was the next influential stage of popular music. Byrds influence on that area was minimal.

And next time ya play something remotely 'psychedelic', thank the Byrds, why dontcha?

Exclusively? Probably not.

We'll be onto the fact that nobody drums better than a bebop drummer next!

[twentysixdollars]

What? More than The Velvets? Or (despite your dislike) the Stooges? MC5? Without those last 3 there'd have been no punk, which was the next influential stage of popular music. Byrds influence on that area was minimal.

Not true, on several different levels.

1> The Byrds were one of the few rock bands that Sterling Morrison admitted to liking. Lou Reed loved them as well. They were a huge influence on the Velvets.

2> "1969" is taken directly from the loud parts of the Byrds song "Tribal Gathering".

3> Many (most?) of the punks - especially the first-gen New York Americans - took their cues from Love and the Leaves, upon whom the Byrds were the primary influence. A lot of punk - especially the artier kind (Television, etc.) draws on The Byrds' work ca. '66 more than anything else. This is, of course, not true of the Brits, who were listening to the Stooges more than anything else - in which case, see #2.

Furthermore, this curious assertion:

...there'd have been no punk, which was the next influential stage of popular music...

...is nonsense anyway, even if a lot of the music was great.

[runcible]

In that case we may as well trace this back through Little Richard and Elvis and then back through the various stages of blues. And so on...

My point about punk remains - I believe it.

As usual we shall agree to disagree. Mind you we might end up disagreeing about that too!

[twentysixdollars]

In that case we may as well trace this back through Little Richard and Elvis

Well, I'd say Little Richard, Fats Domino, and Chuck Berry before Elvis, closely followed by Bo Diddley, but basically, yes. But my point was that the Byrds are the most influential rock band after the Beatles and Stones - note how Little Richard, Fats, Chuck, Elv and Bo are all solo acts.

As usual we shall agree to disagree. Mind you we might end up disagreeing about that too!

-I don't agree to that!
-Me neither!

Roy Haynes is over 80 and he can still outdrum the five best rock drummers with one hand tied behind his back.

[runcible]

As usual we shall agree to disagree. Mind you we might end up disagreeing about that too!

-I don't agree to that!
-Me neither!

Wait a minute - I disagreed first here.

Roy Haynes is over 80 and he can still outdrum the five best rock drummers with one hand tied behind his back.

You can't get away with that comment I'm afraid. The world needs to know who you consider the 5 best rock drummers to be. A list please.

I still say the Velvets as a band had more influence. You can't just say 'oh well they were influenced by so-and-so'. So were the Sex Pistols, The Clash and The Damned. But they too were still highly important, and those 3 formed the core of UK punk which was (oh yes) the next key point in music after 60's psych; the disinfectant required to rid the world of pompous and overblown rock (ELP, Yes, Rough Diamond... prog in general). It's interesting to read what people who were part of that Uk period say - referring to Brian James of the Damned and Mick Jones of the Clash as being the 2 most important individuals of that entire era rather than Malcolm Maclaren or John Lydon. Musical vision had to back up the political stance and those 2 guys knew what it was about, Brian James particularly - his guitar playing on the first Damned LP is completely outrageous.

[a beautiful noise]

Well, if we're talking about all-time favorites, I think I've made myself clear that my favorite pop act of all time is The Byrds.

Here we go again...

they're easily the most important and influential after the Beatles and the Stones

What? More than The Velvets? Or (despite your dislike) the Stooges? MC5? Without those last 3 there'd have been no punk, which was the next influential stage of popular music. Byrds influence on that area was minimal.

And next time ya play something remotely 'psychedelic', thank the Byrds, why dontcha?

Exclusively? Probably not.

We'll be onto the fact that nobody drums better than a bebop drummer next!

runcible, when are we gonna tell the board we are one in the same.

once again you said almost exactly what i was thinking (v/u, stooges, MC5).

good going, keeep up he work.



me.

[twentysixdollars]

Got to say, Runcie, that your holding up of UK punk as the single factor that killed prog etc. sounds like nothing but nostalgia and nationalism. First of all, prog rock was already on the way out by '76-'77 - all the major acts had run out of gas, having peaked ca. '72. In fact the 'movement' as a pop force was really short-lived. And by no means did punk knock Dark Side of the Moon off the charts. It just came around at a time that everyone was sick of prog - remember, disco was also taking off just then, and both punk and disco had their origins in the New York gay underground. Which brings me to my second point: New York punk is just as influential, and until the Brits got involved it never went Nazi, which is one thing you can't say about UK punk, which had those elements from the beginning.

You can't get away with that comment I'm afraid. The world needs to know who you consider the 5 best rock drummers to be. A list please.

Aw, come on. I'm not a drumming afficionado. Benny Benjamin's up there. Al Jackson. Does Herbie Lovelle count? He did a lot of rock session work. If we limit ourselves to guitar rock in bands, number one is definitely Billy Ficca (Television). Number two, maybe Mitch Mitchell. Keith Moon would have to be on the list. Dennis Thompson (MC5). In terms of sheer technical virtuosity, Bill Bruford, I guess.

I still say the Velvets as a band had more influence. You can't just say 'oh well they were influenced by so-and-so'.

There are a lot more bands that "sound like" some configuration of The Byrds than "sound like" the Velvet Underground.

[BzaInSpace]

There are a lot more bands that "sound like" some configuration of The Byrds than "sound like" the Velvet Underground.

There are probably even more that sound like a mixture of them both! At one point it was practically mandatory for all incoming rock bands to state those bands as big influences...

On the initial topic, I would say that I think Spiritualized are up there with Stooges, Prince, Nirvana and the Remains...all the greats!

Now, back to greatest drummers - Jack DeJohnette, Ed Marimba, Sheila E, Chad Channing, Bonham... The JB drummers too.

[MUFCSPACEMAN]

...

[runcible]

Got to say, Runcie, that your holding up of UK punk as the single factor that killed prog etc. sounds like nothing but nostalgia and nationalism. First of all, prog rock was already on the way out by '76-'77 - all the major acts had run out of gas, having peaked ca. '72. In fact the 'movement' as a pop force was really short-lived. And by no means did punk knock Dark Side of the Moon off the charts. It just came around at a time that everyone was sick of prog - remember, disco was also taking off just then, and both punk and disco had their origins in the New York gay underground. Which brings me to my second point: New York punk is just as influential, and until the Brits got involved it never went Nazi, which is one thing you can't say about UK punk, which had those elements from the beginning.

1st point isn't right. Sure it was punk that influenced me to the music fanatic I now am, but I don't think it was the single factor that destroyed prog, just the most significant. Most prog was happening in the UK anyway. And Pink Floyd had existed way before anyway. Punk fucked up the overblown style that ELP (in particular) and others were pushing, and gave pub rock a kick up the arse. The NY Dolls were obviously crucial in their influence on UK punk, but it was the UK interpretation and adaption of that and glam rock that created what was the next rock revolution after psych.

The Nazi thing is debatable. It was irrelevant to the political stance of the music, with the imagery being crassly used purely as a shock factor. If you want to include Oi in the same argument you are several miles off the subject. Can you tell me any bands from the 1st wave who actually made Nazi music? It took a while for people like Skewdriver to turn into that, and in fact the 1st Skewdriver album, All Skrewed Up, is rather good - but there wasn't a hint of fascism about it. That all came later and before anyone thinks I am in anyway sympathetic to that movement forget it - I hated Oi and the whole racist element. Skewdriver started as a punk band and became twisted and horrible later.

I disagree that the New York scene was as influential. I'm guessing you refer to Television etc. Influential sure and highly important. But less so.

Disco isn't rock music, which was the original debate I believe. If I didn't make that point well enough (and reading back I don't think I did) then apologies. Bizarrely acid house and raving somehow did link into rock music. And the initial influence for acid house came absolutely from gay disco.

There are a lot more bands that "sound like" some configuration of The Byrds than "sound like" the Velvet Underground.

Sounding like a band isn't the same as paving the way for musical areas that followed them. In that area the Velvets come out on top. But sure, more Byrds soundalikes existed.

Oh - most of your drummer list flew past me! I don't think I even know what bebop sounds like. I'm guessing I wouldn't like to though. I'm trying to work out what bebop drummers'd sound like if they did some rock drumming. Or the other way round.

But John Bonham, Keith Moon, Jaki Liebezeit, Dave Ruffy, Sly Dunbar, Rat Scabies, Pete de Freitas, Steven Drozsd... all tremendous.

[angelsighs]

Loz Colbert, Josh Garza, Reni..

I also second Billy Ficca- i thought i was the only one who found his drumming brilliant.

But my number one is Mitch Mitchell. He's phenomenal and just as instrumental as Jimi himself in the sound of the Experience. Miles better than the overrated Keith Moon but hardly ever mentioned in the same breath.

[Nomen_Luni]

I find it hard to pick an absolute favourite band as there are so many amazing ones out there. Spiritualized are definitely in my top five though, along with The Cure, Cocteau Twins, Pink Floyd and Marillion. Yes, I'm a prog rock fan.

As for top drummers, you'll have to go a long way to find one better than Neil Peart. The guy is indescribably good.

[twentysixdollars]

Punk fucked up the overblown style that ELP (in particular) and others were pushing

I actually don't think that's true - as I said, most of the major prog bands were already on the decline by the time the Clash, Damned, and Pistols broke. It gives the punks too much credit to say that they brought an end to ELP's nonsense - they appealed to different audiences, and ELP never stopped appealing to ELP's audience.

The NY Dolls were obviously crucial in their influence on UK punk, but it was the UK interpretation and adaption of that and glam rock that created what was the next rock revolution after psych.

I think that's terribly subjective and hyperbolic, above all because I don't think psychedelic music was espeically 'revolutionary', enduring, or even usually good. The vast majority of "psychedelic music" is bad pop music with silly sound effects. Very little of it is genuinely musically revolutionary - thank the Byrds for the vast majority of that! But then again I dispute the existence of "revolutions" in rock, which is, after all, a strictly commercial sector that evolves with regards to what's saleable.

I disagree that the New York scene was as influential. I'm guessing you refer to Television etc. Influential sure and highly important. But less so.

The Ramones, less important than (for example) the Damned? Come on. Without the Ramones, you'd have no JAMC, not to mention Virtually Every Other Punk Rock Band In History.

Sounding like a band isn't the same as paving the way for musical areas that followed them.

I sort of agree, but surely you must realize that this is an impossible proposition to defend unless you happen to have access to a comprehensive notarized list of subsequent bands' influences! And in any case I think the Byrds 'paved more way' than the Velvets did - certainly inventing jazz-rock, and introducing modes and atonality to popular music, not to mention an entirely new approach to guitar playing independent of the blues, counts for at least as much as anything the Velvets (basically a pop band with a contrary streak) did!

[eeee22]

Seriously now.

How many people consider Spiritualized their favorite band of all time.

You may call me naive, but all things considered, Spiritualized are by far my favorite band ever.


Thoughts?

seconded.


P.S. No matter the debate on influence and creativity, I've yet to hear a single Byrds song that I absolutely love and that is my biggest factor in siding against them. Fuck lyrics, fuck guitar solos, fuck technical ability, fuck originality, fuck attitude, it's all about the Sound.

[twentysixdollars]

P.S. No matter the debate on influence and creativity, I've yet to hear a single Byrds song that I absolutely love and that is my biggest factor in siding against them. Fuck lyrics, fuck guitar solos, fuck technical ability, fuck originality, fuck attitude, it's all about the Sound.

Well then maybe you haven't heard enough Byrds songs.

[MUFCSPACEMAN]

...

[runcible]

Punk fucked up the overblown style that ELP (in particular) and others were pushing

I actually don't think that's true

Well we'll split the difference there and fail to agree again.

The NY Dolls were obviously crucial in their influence on UK punk, but it was the UK interpretation and adaption of that and glam rock that created what was the next rock revolution after psych.

I think that's terribly subjective and hyperbolic, above all because I don't think psychedelic music was espeically 'revolutionary', enduring, or even usually good.

My previous answer applies. I disagree entirely. I'm talking about that whole scene.

The vast majority of "psychedelic music" is bad pop music with silly sound effects.

And again.

I disagree that the New York scene was as influential. I'm guessing you refer to Television etc. Influential sure and highly important. But less so.

The Ramones, less important than (for example) the Damned? Come on. Without the Ramones, you'd have no JAMC, not to mention Virtually Every Other Punk Rock Band In History.

Absolutely. The Ramones were amazing. I didn't say The Damned were more important. I still stick to the point that although the Ramones were essential it was a case of them being a catalyst to something further, as in a lot of the scene they represented, although I'd hold them head and shoulders above anyone else from that scene. They held the key to what I am classifying as punk.

But... why the JAMC mention? I don't see a particular connection.

Sounding like a band isn't the same as paving the way for musical areas that followed them.

I sort of agree, but surely you must realize that this is an impossible proposition to defend unless you happen to have access to a comprehensive notarized list of subsequent bands' influences! And in any case I think the Byrds 'paved more way' than the Velvets did - certainly inventing jazz-rock, and introducing modes and atonality to popular music, not to mention an entirely new approach to guitar playing independent of the blues, counts for at least as much as anything the Velvets (basically a pop band with a contrary streak) did!

Bit of a waffle there I reckon. And jazz rock is horrible and something I'd never hold against a fine band like The Byrds in any case!