the death of brit pop...

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clewsr
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the death of brit pop...

Post by clewsr » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:04 pm

there seems to be a feature about the death of brit pop [in 1997 in case you were wondering], on radio 6 tomorrow. Spiritualized are featured, although I think Spiruitualized are as far away from the brip pop category as anything [released pure phase in 93 before it was invented, then Ladies and Gents in 97 when brit pop was apprently on its way out?]

heres a couple of links anyhoo http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/events/ and a review of ladies and gents too http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A1168940

if the debate does decide that the death of brit pop was all spiritualized's fault, then they should probably be proud. But of course it wasn't. I'd say was the few good brit pop artists running out of steam and the rest being not much cop at all.

i miss Pulp Though.

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Post by G* » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:27 pm

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I remember the summer of 1997 (hope that doesn't sound too Bryan Adams-like), buying Ladies and Gentlemen...and OK Computer by Radiohead, and thinking about the ease with which those records exposed Britpop for what it was.

I'm a little perplexed by the amount of coverage that Britpop's supposed 'anniversary' is getting. Was it really that significant? Perhaps it's just another way for record companies to make more money second time around. But maybe I'm wrong and perhaps Menswear were the shit after all, rather than just, er, shit.

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Post by mojo filters » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:28 pm

This kind of talk makes me feel old...a friend takes the piss with his recollections of trying to get folks in late SM3/early Spz when we were kids...annoyingly he doesn't even like them now but is still too smart to let me part him from the treasured precious vinyl!

Menswear were a bit shit, if not a lot.
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Re: the death of brit pop...

Post by is » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:09 am

clewsr wrote:...if the debate does decide that the death of brit pop was all spiritualized's fault...
Without listening to any of the programmes, I reckon that the year 1997 was decided as the year Britpop 'died' because of the rise of a certain Mr A C L Blair in that year.

Of course, it didn't 'die', any more than it existed at all... as you say most of the bands associated with it existed well before (Blur, Pulp, Manics), or continued well afterwards (Oasis), or never really fitted the sound (Spz, Radiohead).

Actually, I liked a lot of it. Why the hell shouldn't I have done? Menswear were fun, at least. There were a lot of decent singles released by various artists.

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Post by clewsr » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:55 am

is now. I'm glad you liked it, never said you shouldn't have done. There was alot of dross though. Surprised you'd admit to liking menswear. I liked to indie scene of the early 90's Ride, Boo Radleys, Spz Verve. never really dug the lad rock of oasis. People like the Boo Radleys and Verve were part of both scenes though, the Boos were huge in 1995 weren't they.

As to whether britpop was significant. Thats a good question. I think it was a significant Media and marketing event. I'm not sure if musically it stands up as a significant period.

10 years on its all a bit of a blur anyway.

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Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:16 am

Interesting topic clewsr and good point from is i.e. britpop did and didn't exist.

Looking back on britpop now, it seems to me as a very media savvy attempt at 'pigeon-holing' a period of time in culture (music, fashion, attitude).

Many things ran hand-in-hand; blur-oasis-newlad-newmod-FHMmagazine-ChrisEvans-alcopops-
lagerlagerlager-burberry-fredperry-bensherman-ibiza, a definite hedonistic emphasis used as a disguise whilst all around things were falling apart.

I guess it was good at pulling people together to share a common ground. Think the reason it merits a mention is partly due to the fact that in amongst the '15 minuters' there were some decent bands with some decent songs...

[edited by twentysixdollars to truncate a long word that was forcing lateral scrolling]

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Post by clewsr » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:27 am

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote: Many things ran hand-in-hand; blur-oasis-newlad-newmod-FHMmagazine-ChrisEvans-alcopops-lagerlagerlager
-burberry-fredperry-bensherman-ibiza, a definite hedonistic emphasis used as a disguise whilst all around things were falling apart.
excellent description, but what do you mean by saying all around things were falling apart? maybe its my rose tinted spectacles, but the 90's seemed like much happier stable days than the murky zeros have been.

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Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:56 am

clewsr wrote:
eleKtroniK:musiK wrote: Many things ran hand-in-hand; blur-oasis-newlad-newmod-FHMmagazine-ChrisEvans-alcopops-lagerlager
lager-burberry-fredperry-bensherman-ibiza, a definite hedonistic emphasis used as a disguise whilst all around things were falling apart.
excellent description, but what do you mean by saying all around things were falling apart? maybe its my rose tinted spectacles, but the 90's seemed like much happier stable days than the murky zeros have been.
Perhaps with hindsight, i've deduced that the zeros are a direct result or fallout from the 90's, hence things were falling apart then or at least begining too.

I mean if you look at the apparent 'care-free' attitude adopted (this perhaps coincides with my late teens early twenties) in the 90's does this not result in where society is now with IMO a very lax attitude towards anyone but the self.
Or the optimism that was so engaging about the 90's, the sense of moving towards 'better-times', more fruitful and as a group rather than the (I believe?) very individual/self obsessed time of the 80's.

I dunno...i'm just sounding off...but i remember very clearly (through a haze of the most appaling MDMA!) millenium night (NYE2000) that we had somehow all missed the point. Understand that this is a very individualistic look on things but seeing so many people in states of what could only be termed as defeated (wrecked, distanced from each other safe only in their on little zones) kinda hit me. For me it was kinda a relief to get the 90's out the way and i felt little optimism for the zeros...so i've kinda been surprised.

Perhaps I was just at the wrong party but so were 1500 other people and the aftermath was eye-opening for 4/5 days.

Sure, I have so many fond memories of the 90's and i'm not saying that it was all for nothing but the fervour only lasted so long, perhaps as is has said there was never a fervour to speak of...

Anyway, speaking of the 90's - The Jig; theres a Pentamerous Metamorphosis CD up on ebay the now if you're still in the market.

Speaking of music from the 90's, there is a whole lot i'm still discovering that passed me by at the time and then there is other stuff that i'm revisiting. So a round of applause for the 90's and for clewsr, is and I not coming to loggerheads within a thread, yet!

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Post by Gruff » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:15 pm

I'd say the 90's seemed great-maybe the end of the cold war and the fact we hadn't found the war on terror yet to be the next disease that we should all cower about?
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Post by assoc. » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:57 pm

ladies & gents was released 10 years ago on 1st July.

I will be raising a glass to it :wink:

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Post by clewsr » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:16 pm

bah. I just wrote a long message about the nineties, peace, mdma and everything but lost it when my browser crashed.

Instead I'll post a link to the radio 6 board where brit pop is being discussed... http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb6music/F1950 ... ad=4255940

and maybe I'll come back to what I was writing later.

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Post by is » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:09 pm

Of COURSE I liked Menswear. I also realise that this is a minority view.

The whole idea of a band CALLED Menswear was just brilliant. I've got a few of their singles, and I quite enjoyed them at the time (haven't played them for a while, I must admit). Good little pop songs, they are (have you heard them?). If they'd been by anyone else they'd be fondly remembered.

Oasis - the laddish swagger seemed fun at the time - quite an antidote, if I remember rightly. It got very old quite quickly, anyway.


I also kind of liked Dodgy. They were another lot who were around before the whole thing kicked off (Lovebirds 12" about 1993?). Supergrass... even Sleeper had one good song. Elastica were lumped in with the NWONW. Speaking of which - 'Sound of Youth' by These Animal Men?

That's what I mean, actually: it's pretty hard for me to say I like ANY of the BANDS. But I REALLY like some of their songs.

As for nostalgia - of course whatever decade one spent the ages of 18-28 will be 'the best'. And it WILL be revived (by the kids first, then by The Man), 15-20 years later. And you WILL find it annoying. This is the truth.

As for waking up and finding you've 'missed the point' - you're not alone. Get yourself a copy of Easy Rider - watch the scene between the Mardi Gras and the Fireball.

The 90s were quite a good decade in terms of Geopolitics - if you ignore Yugoslavia, that is - and compared to the 60s, anyway. The 60s was a disaster.
I haven't put this post together very well - just responding to stuff I read just now... anyway.

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Post by Fuzzhead » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:55 pm

is wrote: Speaking of which - 'Sound of Youth' by These Animal Men?
Awww - I loved These Animal Men as a skinny little teenage kid.

I thought they were ace, and LOVED the way they looked. I grew out of them but I still have pretty much everything they released on vinyl. I haven't listened to it in years, but I wouldn't part with it, as it reminds me of those days.

I'm going to stick These Animal Men on the turntable right now! Right, where's that skinny-fit Lonsdale T-shirt, Adidas Gazelles and a wee dab of something?

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Post by clewsr » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:02 pm

is wrote: I also kind of liked Dodgy. They were another lot who were around before the whole thing kicked off (Lovebirds 12" about 1993?). .
lots to respond to but I'll just pick this before I finally leave work. I loved dodgy! That first album was excellent. They never seemed to get the success they deserved. I think the Bees are their natural successors today.

rest of what you wrote I pretty much agree with too. [can you see I'm in a rush..not even trying to start an argument, i mean debate, of course]

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Post by 10ent » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:53 pm

clewsr wrote:
is wrote: I also kind of liked Dodgy. They were another lot who were around before the whole thing kicked off (Lovebirds 12" about 1993?). .
lots to respond to but I'll just pick this before I finally leave work. I loved dodgy! That first album was excellent. They never seemed to get the success they deserved. I think the Bees are their natural successors today.

rest of what you wrote I pretty much agree with too. [can you see I'm in a rush..not even trying to start an argument, i mean debate, of course]
I loved Dodgy too. Still listen to their albums on a regular basis. They bring back great memories of me & my mate driving up the East Coast of Australia in 97 in a Campervan.

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:39 am

So was Menswear an Are You Being Served reference, or what?

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Post by Ian » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:16 am

twentysixdollars wrote:So was Menswear an Are You Being Served reference, or what?
Nah, just a reference to the fact that they were sharp dressers, at first in any case. Don't forget that there was a big Mod element to Britpop.

I loved Britpop. Not all the bands, but enough of them. And there were so many! A new name every couple of weeks. It was such a vibrant scene, and it threw up a mixture of genuinely intriguing music and first class pop.

I've never seen the problem in being into a wide variety of stuff, but I remember going to a record fair with a couple of youngsters that I'd recently met through our Spacemen 3 enthusiasm. We met up at the end to compare purchases. I'd turned up a few Spacemen and Spectrum rarities, and... the Menswe@r (call them by their name) album. One of them looked at me like I was something unpleasant he's stepped in.

That Menswe@r album is fantastic pop. They even had a hit single with a song about how much of a loser Bobby Gillespie is!

John Harris' book about Briptop and New Labour is highly recommended.

Love,

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:24 pm

Ian wrote:
twentysixdollars wrote:So was Menswear an Are You Being Served reference, or what?
Nah, just a reference to the fact that they were sharp dressers, at first in any case.
Well then I've lost interest. Although I still think John Inman had something to do with it.

There definitely was such a thing as britpop, but it had to exist in nonexistent form before it started positively existing. By this I mean, most of the initial "britpop" acts had their origins elsewhere, and earlier (Pulp, Verve, some shoegazers still surviving in '94, etc.). Then Oasis breaks big, and britpop actually starts to exist - because the UK indie labels (which actually have lucrative ties to UK and US majors) get in a frenzy to sign guitar rock acts. Hence a "movement". Thus the new-band-every-week phenomenon that Ian mentioned.

Obviously the cultural climate that swept Blair to power had something to do with it. There was, as the documentarians will say, 'palpable optimism'. Plus Cobain was dead.

We should also note that as of '94, the "genre" (and I think an argument could be made that it was one, with its own conventions, syntax and iconography) hadn't been refined and standardized yet, and there wasn't a clear distinciton between late/2nd gen. shoegazing, 'madchester' and britpop yet. Pulp and Blur had too much of a dance undercurrent, and even the first Oasis album had a pronounced shoegaze streak.

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Post by natty » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:20 pm

I always had Blur's "Modern Life Is Rubbish" down as heralding the beginning of the "Britpop" movement, if such a thing ever really existed. It got really overlooked at the time but I think a lot of bands took it as huge influence. Pulp had been around since about '79 I think. Oasis' early stuff probably reminded me more of Teenage Fanclub more than anyone else around in the immediate past at the time. I think over here it was also partly a reaction to how derivative and angst-y most of the post-Nirvana stuff coming out of America at the time sounded. For me, Britpop lasted from 94-97, and died a fairly quick death because most of the bands were crap. Powder, anyone? Sleeper? Shed Seven? And Menswear were the absolute triumph of style over content and a complete media creation - I think they even had a double page spread in NME before they'd actually released a note of music.

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Post by Spamuel L. Jackson » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:21 pm

natty wrote:and died a fairly quick death because most of the bands were crap. Powder, anyone? Sleeper? Shed Seven?
Yep. Thanks for being the one to say it, man.
Supergrass' first 2 records, the first Oasis album, some Blur and Pulp were the only good that came of it.
Fuck, even then, Oasis turned to shit by '95, Blur turned to shit not long after and Pulp's subsequent defining album statement was Jarvis trying to rip the previous 3 years of his life as a smiley happy-campin' britpopper to fuckin' shreds.


Also: fuck NONW, Romo, Madchester and every other tacky fucking press-created 'movement' that made you feel slightly embarassed to like the one or two genuinely great bands that unwittingly became associated with them. I'd like to smack whichever motherfuckers sit around dreaming this crap up to ruin things for people who actually fucking DIG MUSIC.

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Post by sendy » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:54 am

Why does everyone talk about the death of a media generated phenomenon (ie Britpop) in 1997, when surely it is more pressing to point out the brilliance of the music that came out that year from a variety of bands?

Spiritualized- Ladies and Gentlemen
The Verve- Urban Hymns
Primal Scream- Vanishing Point
Radiohead- Ok Computer
Oasis- Be Here Now (vastly under-rated)
Prodigy- Fat of The Land
Plus many others....

As far as i can see, no other year since has produced music of such quality.

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Post by Fuzzhead » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:39 pm

Sendy, are you serious?

The majority of those albums you list (except Ladies & Gents/Vanishing Point) are insipid and stale bore-fests.

When I think back to 1997, it seems like such a barren time for decent music.

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Post by natty » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:08 pm

sendy wrote:Why does everyone talk about the death of a media generated phenomenon (ie Britpop) in 1997, when surely it is more pressing to point out the brilliance of the music that came out that year from a variety of bands?

Spiritualized- Ladies and Gentlemen
The Verve- Urban Hymns
Primal Scream- Vanishing Point
Radiohead- Ok Computer
Oasis- Be Here Now (vastly under-rated)
Prodigy- Fat of The Land
Plus many others....

As far as i can see, no other year since has produced music of such quality.
And those are pretty much the records that sounded it's death-knell, for various differerent reasons. Either because they were vastly beyond the scope, quality or scale of anything any of the supposed britpop bands could have ever dreamed of putting out (Spiritualized, Radiohead (although I'm not a fan myself), Primal Scream), or because they were produced by one of the scene's so called leading lights and were shit (Oasis, The Verve).

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Post by helm » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:48 pm

urban hymns is one of those over-rated albums that i just don't get. the first two singles were great (bittersuite symphony being released on the same day as ladies and gentlemen- trivia bores) but after that it was just awful. still, the public doesn't agree with this thought on the whole.

most britpop stuff was kind of fun. i think it made guitar bands popular in the uk again. i wonder if new rave will have a similar lasting effect?!

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Post by twentysixdollars » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:57 pm

natty wrote:or because they were produced by one of the scene's so called leading lights and were shit (Oasis, The Verve).
But surely Verve weren't considered among the genre's leading lights until the release of Urban Hymns.

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:48 pm

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Post by Genius » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:40 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote:Either/Or
In It For The Money
Give It Back
Tellin' Stories
The Boatman's Call
Homogenic
Seven
Dead Elvis
Dig Me Out
Evergreen
In My Lifetime Vol. 1
Time Out Of Mind
Young Team

Those are some better ones. And "Vanishing Point/Echo Dek" and "LAGWAFIS" were both awesome.
BZA would probably shout for "Wu-Tang Forever", too. Jiggy would likely add "Portishead".
OMFG dood don't forget Bentley Rhythm Ace.

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Post by natty » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:59 pm

Homogenic, Young Team and The Boatman's Call are fantastic albums.

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Post by bunnyben » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:00 am

i thought they blamed oasis be here now for the end of the entire scene. things built to last eh. the book that ian mentioned is excellent, i wrote a media essay on it for my A2's (thats the second year of the A-levels for all those slightly greying :P ) also wrote about the documentry 'live forever' which if you like noel gallagher's wit (insert obvious backlash :wink: (i feel like salmon rusdie- knighthood? bah!) you'll love.

i think 97 was a great year- return of the bunnymen, ladies and gents, urban hymns, ok computer etc- possibly the best year of 'brit pop' musically
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'

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Post by ash » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:55 am

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote:BZA would probably shout for "Wu-Tang Forever", too. Jiggy would likely add "Portishead".
And I'd say "Marchin' Already" and run away really, really quickly.
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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:25 pm

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Post by twentysixdollars » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:18 pm

Surely the death of Diana, and the attending change in national mood, had something to do with the end of britpop as well. If I remember correctly, Be Here Now was released only a week before then.

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Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:43 pm

clewsr wrote:
is wrote: I also kind of liked Dodgy. They were another lot who were around before the whole thing kicked off (Lovebirds 12" about 1993?). .
lots to respond to but I'll just pick this before I finally leave work. I loved dodgy! That first album was excellent. They never seemed to get the success they deserved. I think the Bees are their natural successors today.

rest of what you wrote I pretty much agree with too. [can you see I'm in a rush..not even trying to start an argument, i mean debate, of course]
Touring again I believe, or so it said in the Sunday Mail, this Sunday, perhaps they never went away...carpe diem!

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Post by is » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:49 pm

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this thread, $26. I also feel some affinity with Ian, and the way HE feels about music. The rest of you, by and large are snobs. If YOU think I'm wrong about this, do me a favour - keep it to yourself; I'm not interested.

I've got ONE record by Shed 7. It's a single. I forget what it's called, but it's either their first one, or their second one. I think it's good. If anyone bought their album(s) though, and is now claiming they're rubbush - well, more fool them, I'd say. What did you expect?
twentysixdollars wrote:Surely the death of Diana, and the attending change in national mood, had something to do with the end of britpop as well. If I remember correctly, Be Here Now was released only a week before then.
What about the failure of the England football team to impress during France '98? Or Radio 1's decision to sack Chris Evans from the Breakfast Show? Or the devolution of the setting of Base Interest Rates? Or the decision of the examination board at the University of Canterbury not to award me a 2:1?

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Post by Shaun » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:54 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote: BZA would probably shout for "Wu-Tang Forever", too. Jiggy would likely add "Portishead".

If you mean albums that were released in 1997 only, then yeah, ''Portishead'' should definately get a mention.
What more can the heart of a man desire?

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:05 pm

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Post by BzaInSpace » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:18 pm

"I am not your babylon"

I loved These Animal Men, cheers whoever brought them up!
I love the Black Grape album from the 'britpop' era. Fantastic twisted music that got me into all sorts of other stuff. Be interested to hear about the great singles somebody mentioned.

Yep, big shout to 'Wu-Tang Forever'. Ten fuckin' years! It was that and 'Floating In Space' and 'Vanishing Point' that year were played more than anything else...great stuff and for me a real introduction to these bands. Only heard bits prior to these.
Did the Cornershop album 'Born for the 7th time' come out at the same time? Kinda forgotten album but it is really, really good. I don't remember that year being downbeat at all - I had a blast :D
O P 8

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:34 pm

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Post by Fuzzhead » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:36 pm

BZA, you've just put a big smile on my face with your last post.

It just instantly made me realise what a happy time of my life 1997 was. Kind of set me on a nostalgia trip without warning. Not that I'm not happy now, but it's just that life seems much more fun when you're 18 instead of pushing 30...

:cry:

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:39 pm

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:13 pm

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Post by Fuzzhead » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:25 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote:
Fuzzhead wrote:but it's just that life seems much more fun when you're 18 instead of pushing 30...

:cry:
Buddy, we're still young! Still so much to do! So many smash and grab raids at Anfailed still to come! WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's the spirit!

I just got a big rush of nostalgia and lots of good memories came flooding back.

They're great memories you speak of too, listening to Mary Anne Hobbs' show. She played some amazing stuff.

Vanishing Point was such an immense album. That, more than any other band/album, sums up what was important during 1997. It was 2 fingers in the face of the Ben Sherman brigade.

It's going on in Fuzz-Towers right now...

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:37 pm

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Post by Fuzzhead » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:57 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote: Word. Live a long life, bro. See you in the sunshine.
You're a star.

Thanks for being such a positive force on here.

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Post by Shaun » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:38 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:Surely the death of Diana, and the attending change in national mood, had something to do with the end of britpop as well.

No, you're wrong there. That don't really add up to much to be honest. Maybe the shift in a national mood yeah, but the death of Diana had nothing to do with it at all :? . It was a very tragic incident that happened around that time. The end of Britpop ended because as much as the music industry were still stupidly willing to plough crazy money into British guitar based bands, and as much as the mass media market couldn't let it go, the British public (which was the fan-base and audience of Britpop) had got wise to the fact that basically it was just mostly dross by then and had moved on. They had moved on and was searching for the next big scene. Pointless little bands being the main reason for that, and the fact that even band members of the bigger players (for the most part) had realised it was time to move on.
What more can the heart of a man desire?

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Post by Shaun » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:13 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote:
The Jig wrote:If you mean albums that were released in 1997 only, then yeah, ''Portishead'' should definately get a mention.
Yeah, I was talking albums from 1997, as per Sendy's post.

And also i would likely add from that year (and should have added) ''The Will To Live'' by Ben Harper. Nothing to do with Britpop, just one of my favourite albums of 1997 and thought i'd include that one too.
What more can the heart of a man desire?

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Post by runcible » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:45 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote: Dodgy. God, how I loathed, LOATHED, Dodgy. If ever a band summed up that whole vile 'wacky', 'laddy', Chris Evans-felching mood, from their very name to the regressive plodding sound they made, it was them.
My God. You have defended Northern Uproar, slagged off Dodgy and then said Black Grape were better than Happy Mondays. All in the space of a few days.

Dodgy made one nice single (the 1st one) but they had a decent attitude. Music wasn't that great after that but it was harmless fun.

I always thought Black Grape were rubbish - I clung to the Mondays good time 'take the opportunity' vibe and the fact that the 1st 3 albums were really fantastic - some of the songs sound really brilliant today. Black Grape were musically awful yet I bought the 1st few record in an outside hope that they might capture the magic I saw in the Mondays from the time I first saw them supporting Loop (yup - odd one that) in 1989. But they were terrible. I was once at a small party/session with the other guy - Kermit was it? He was in the Ruthless Rap Assassins at the time - and he sat and deliberately hogged every spliff passed to him and made a point of doing so, glaring at me and anyone else, and was a complete tosser. I didn't realise who he was until a year into the Grape's career and then it dawned on me that I'd met him somewhere. Their music reflected that and made me realise what a twat Ryder was too.

Northern Uproar? Good Godalmighty. Unless you are genuinely kidding you have unravelled the apparently deep knowledge and listening experience you have shown for however long! They were a cartoon band of genuine ridicule - I cringed at the time but cringe even more now. I simply couldn't believe the press took them seriously (the photo sessions were hilarious!). I'm not trying to insult you man; I'm just sat here, jaw agape, at your viewpoint!

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Post by The Flight Lieutenant » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:27 am

i think oasis always got a lot of bad press for the 'death of britpop' and Be Here Now in particular. apart from Magic Pie, its a damned fine album and it absolutely catches the moment. people always say that OK Computer reflects the world around the band. and, in a way, so does Be Here Now; its long, overblown, pompous, drowning itself in drugs and booze - exactly like the rest of Great Britain in 1997. Its a good album, which absolutely captures 'the death of britpop' and i bloody love it.
Image

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Post by angelsighs » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:17 am

Same old story for me- Britpop was where I as a young lad first got into music (so i have got a nostalgic connection to it), but looking back now it all seems so limited, conservative and retro. The union jack stuff makes me queasy too, i've never been into all that sort of thing. And i do remember OK Computer/Ladies and Gents/Urban Hymns coming out and realising that music could offer so much more, emotionally and sonically.

What was good was that the mainstream media was digging rock music, and music meant something to more than a relatively small subculture. and a good song is a good song, and there were some great ones- Don't Look Back In Anger is still a fantastic song to me.

And i always had a soft spot for Cast's 'Walkaway'... I'll get me coat.

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Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:40 am

Just a thought and just throwing it out there, hopefully for consideration as much as ridicule but anyone think the internet had anything to do with the death of that kind of 'gang-mentality' that was about during brit-pop.
you know many people into similar music, similar ideas... (usually involving getting off your face or 'havin' it'!)
I mean you could be just as into your 'rawk' music as your 'dance' music at that time...don't forget that the dj was held in awe as well
Anyway, it seems that the shift at the end of the 90's was that everyone diversified...and perhaps in some small way the internet allowed this
I take 95 as the kind of starting point for the web...although probably expect it took about 2/3years for it to kick in.
Myself, i never bothered with the web until 2003...

Anyway...just a 'random' thought

Funny hearing those names mentioned now;
These Animal Men, Menswear, Cast, Dodgy et al

Up here, we kinda had our own little scene going on with some great albums between 93 - 98 from 18 Wheeler - Formanka, Telstar Ponies - In the Space of a few Minutes, Mogwai - Young Team, Prolapse - Backsaturday, The Pastels - Mobile Safari/Illumination, Teenage Fanclub - Thirteen/Grand Prix, Arab Strap - Philophobia.

enjoying the lil walk down memory lane

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Post by clewsr » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:23 pm

I think you might have a point about the internet segregating things.

I don't agree with those who think this thread is just about nostagia, just maybe trying to make sense of the last big, maintstream music scene.

Has anyone else been watching that excellent history of modern britain? It has been very usefull for filling the gaps in my knowlege. I think the next one covers the nineties so could be worth a look. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6764903.stm

btw. Staying out for the summer was a bit grating, but the first album was brimming with golden pop nuggets. And Happy Mondays were far supperior to Black Grape, although I did enjoy their first album for a time. [One of the few albums I bought in 1997, most of my income being spent on illegal substances, booze, and packets of noodles].

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Post by angelsighs » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:33 pm

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:
I mean you could be just as into your 'rawk' music as your 'dance' music at that time...don't forget that the dj was held in awe as well
Oh yeah, forgot about that, i suppose Prodigy Chemical Brothers etc should be included in the list.

I always wondered why Teenage Fanclub never got massive, they had songs just as melodic as anyone else but with more refinement and depth i think (actually maybe answered my own question there)

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Post by andyblacktoo » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:03 pm

i spent the height of britpop : ie the years 1994 - 1997 at manchester uni.

there were some ace records from those times (mostly brilliant singles)

verve : history
northern uproar : rollercoaster
menswear : i'll manage somehow
dodgy : melodies haunt you
dodgy : lovebirds
ian brown : my star
tiger : race

i saw a bonkers norther uproar gig at the roadhouse in manchester, with the chemical brothers, tony wilson, james dean bradfield and rob gretton in the audience.

and eletronic : musik you are correct, prolapse were utter bloody brilliance.

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:06 pm

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:48 pm

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Post by runcible » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:58 pm

Well I didn't like Black Grape at all and I tried really hard!

Northern Uproar I'll leave to you. Couldn't even begin to take them seriously both image-wise and musically.

WCPAEB. You've got it totally wrong in terms of what I like about them. I didn't know the 1st thing about the band members or Markley - I presumed Markley was the lead singer and only found out later how little he had to do with the actual music. He sounds like a true monster character-wise but I'll defend the music. The 1st 3 albums are, for me, absolutely stunning. I love the vibe, the tunes, the arrangements, the tripped-out-ness. My original copy of Part 3 is one of the most treasured records I have. So I give Markley no credit at all - in fact that was the 1st time I clashed with $26 cos he claimed Markley did appear on the albums which I didn't know, even though his musical input was very small. If you genuinely think dittees like 'Scuse Me Miss Rose' and 'Smell of Incense' are terrible that's down to personal taste which is fine. I'll stick to those records and you can enjoy your Northern Uproar (can't be too many sentences that include references to those 2 bands at the same time!).

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:07 pm

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Post by runcible » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:41 pm

MUFCSPACEMAN wrote:
Incidentally, Bob M. had more to do with the music than you're letting on.
I'm unconvinced on that one. He provided the money for their expansion and provided poor vocals on a few tracks is my understanding.
runcible wrote:I'll stick to those records and you can enjoy your Northern Uproar.

Along with my Curt Boettcher, Brian Wilson, Mamas+Papas, Van Dyke Parks, Turtles, Moby Grape...
The very idea of Northern Uproar being grouped in with that lot made me smile I must confess!

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:51 pm

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Post by runcible » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:08 pm

I think another 'agree to disagree' option is the only one to take here.

The 1st 3 albums proper are amazing. As for trippiness 'Ritual #2' is completely psychedelic and up there with almost anything from that genre. I love it and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

The Manics were involved with Northern Uproar? Jesus. The Uproars just sink lower and lower in my esteem! Remember that hilarious picture on the cover of Sounds with all of them punching the air? Indie comedy at it's very finest!

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:09 pm

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Post by andyblacktoo » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:45 pm

james dean bradfield produced the first northern uproar singles, and rollercoaster, was probably the best of the lot as a pretty super single.

we saw him at the gig, and had a beer with him, didnt realise who he was because he was so clean and tidy (a la everything must go), and last time i'd seen him he was all holy bibled in sailor suits and long hair.

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Post by andyblacktoo » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:46 pm

oh and i've heard the mondays album, and its really rather good. saw them in nottingham rescue rooms a month or so ago. sean is off the smack....would you believe, and about 3 stone lighter.

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:01 pm

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Post by runcible » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:23 pm

Just in case people want to hear what the debate is all about. From my end:

Classic pop: West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band 'Scuse Me Miss Rose'
http://download.yousendit.com/B53F78985181FE95

Classic sunshine psychedelia:West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band 'Smell Of Incense'
http://download.yousendit.com/517C97416B80B05E

Classic tripped out psychedelia: West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band 'Ritual #2'
http://download.yousendit.com/326570C335106EF6

Personally I love this stuff.

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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:50 pm

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