Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

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Ian Goodchild
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Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by Ian Goodchild »

Selected Blatherings…Blue on Blue/Friendly Fire…The Next Spiritualized Album…Acoustic Mainlines

:D I’m back, baby! I’ve missed you guys. :D

You know how my posts were always long? Try this one. Crammed full of the same new crap.

‘Blue on Blue’ and ‘Friendly Fire’ prove there is a God. If there wasn't, I would never have heard these collections of absolute pure bloody genius. I’ve only been waiting fifteen or so years to hear these… ‘Smiles’ alternate mix… ‘Shine A Light’ alternate mix… ‘If I Were With Her Now’ with the proper middle section (e.g. as they played it live in their summer 1991 tours: if you’ve heard that, you know how good it is…and 'You Know It's True' and ‘Amen’ Holy God! Fuckin’ amazing! I guess Jason suddenly remembered during the LGM sessions that he used to be in a band called Spacemen 3. With a better vocal, 'Amen' could and should be a fantastic LP opener. What sucks on these? Could have done without two more backwards, instrumental versions of ‘I Want You’ (long or short, both are inferior to ‘Stay With Me’ from the ‘Run’ EP) but they are okay. My only real complaint is that The Peel Sessions – because they have been anthologized like, everywhere (officially on Medication EP, and without the mid-fade between ‘Angel Sigh’ and ‘Feel So Bad’ (not a spelling error, Saint John Peel actually called this session track by that name) and Medication 7”, official Complete Works I, RCW – should have been omitted in favour of some, or all, of the Hit The North Radio 5 AM Session with Mark Radcliffe (1992). I’ve grudgingly come to accept that this - which I really genuinely believe is the most beautiful and spontaneous Radio session Spiritualized have ever done, or will ever do - will never be heard other than a horrible, crackle and hiss saturated, talked over, copied straight from MW (e.g. 'Radio Sessions Volume I')

One question though: what of the late Spacemen 3 era tracks and early Spiritualized stuff which wasn’t on Blue On Blue or Friendly Fire? Some of this is fairly common amongst the trading community, and I already have the different mixes of most of the unreleased ‘Recurring’ tracks – ‘Drive/Feel So Sad (Long Version)’, ‘Feelin’ Just Fine (Alternate mix)’, ‘Sometimes (remix)’, ‘These Blues (Demo)’. I also knew there was what was described to me as an ‘ultra long version of ‘Sometimes’’ (which has now emerged) and supposedly ‘Hypnotized’ was recorded in a more country style. Similarly, by some people I’ve been told that versions of ‘Codeine’ and ‘Harmony’ were demoed and rejected, still exist (both were played live consistently for well over a year, along with ‘These Blues’, which has survived as a demo and an alternare mix), but I don’t know if this is true or not. I certainly didn’t know they had demoed ‘Amen’, nor that ‘You Know It’s True’ had been originally recorded with that fantastic drone-based ending which made it sound like live versions of ‘Take Good Care Of It’ circa 1993 – because in 1990, Spiritualized (pre-Kate Radley) were playing this song exactly as it appears on LGM. My feeling is that there is still some material in the vaults. I hope so, but would love to know if anyone else has heard of anything else..?

As a result of playing the Acoustic Mainlines version of ‘Feel So Sad’ so much (I have a digital of this version from Summer Sundae, that fades 10 seconds too early but was engineered to perfection by the BBC) my partner has really walked out on me ( :oops: no, I’m being serious – it’s true. Irony, why must thou smite me?! I do feel so alone!) and because of the time I’ve spent listening to the rest of the Acoustic Mainlines gigs I’ve collected via these boards (btw, to the guys that posted the links for Indian Summer and The Queen’s Hall – thank you, thank you, thank you) I’ve been trying to work out how these tracks will influence the next LP.

Because of the length of the AM tour, and the fact that it has encompassed both European, and American tours as well as multiple Festivals, and because it precedes, rather than promotes their latest (or next) release (same happened with LGM – every track except ‘Symphony Space’ had been played live, and all recorded by mid-1991, before the finished product was released in late-Spring 1992), we have probably heard a lot of the next LP – albeit in an acoustic format. I don’t think Jason will make the mistake of leaking the next one in the same way as ‘Amazing Grace’ was in 2003, and missing out on all that lovely publicity – don’t forget that this is Jason’s ‘coming back from the dead’ record, and both ‘serious’ and teeny bop magazines like NME love ‘coming back from the dead’ records/stories. Here we go (p.s. switch off if bored, and genuine apologies to anyone who has posted anything similar - I haven't read as much of the boards as I would have liked to):

Sitting On Fire – I like this a lot. It’s a nice and very humble track, and I don’t think the finished version of this will be any more orchestrated than the live version. It’s not quite at the ‘Rated X’ raising-the-hair-on-your-arms level, but I’m definitely looking forward to hearing this. Probably as Track 1.

Devil Town – This is a Daniel Johnson track (from his ‘1990’ CD on Shimmy, which along with ‘Artistic Vice’ (same label) are my personal favourite DJ CD’s). Again, this is a wonderful cover, which really opens up the minimalist, accapella version that Daniel Johnson performs. Segued with ‘Lord Let It Rain On Me’ it sound even better, but even as a track opener/segue, I can’t see this on the next LP.

True Love Will Find You In The End – Jason – pointlessly - covers another Daniel Johnson cover which was originally covered by Sonic. Sonic’s 2nd Studio version (from ‘Indian Summer’ EP) is actually better than this. Absolutely 100% will not be on the LP. If Jason really needs to cover another Johnson song, 'Some Things Last A Long Time' is sensational.

Goodnight, Goodnight/Funeral Home – One certain LP track and another (partial) Daniel Johnson cover, concluding the Acoustic Mainlines trilogy of Johnson covers. ‘Goodnight, Goodnight’ seems a bit (e.g. a lot) like ‘Lay It Down Slow’ and seems a bit drippy, both lyically and musically in the acoustic rendition, but it might scrub up more impressively for the next LP, with eighty vocal overdubs, two choirs, ten string sections, and the London Symphony Orchestra. It needs to. ‘Funeral Home’ is not really a cover at all, but the rising crescendo of endlessly repeating ‘Funeral home’ sounds fucking fantastic anyway. I think this cover kind of clarifies that special something that Spiritualized have...being able to repeat those two stupid words ad nauseaum to a simple orchestral score, but to still embue the music with a power that is just absent from even the best of their contemporaries.
Side note 1: Jason misses the main bulk of the song - ‘Funeral home, funeral home/Going to the funeral home/Got me a coffin, shiny and black/going to the funeral and I’m never coming back!’ which Johnson sings gleefully on the best, recorded LP version.
Side note 2: I used Audacity to make my own ‘mash up’- fading in the Acoustic Mainline version of ‘Funeral Home’ before the end of the LICD version of ‘Lord Can You Hear Me?’ (this has to be just before Jason and Mimi hit ‘…at all’ on the record) and then finished it off by adding the simple guitar fade out of Mercury Rev/Chemical Brothers ‘Dream On’ just as the audience become noticeably audible. They are all in the same key and at tempo (‘Dream On’ though needs slowing down).I love it! Try it yourself!!! I love exclamation marks.

Death Take Your Fiddle – What a great song title! I like this one a lot too, and despite what I said about the ‘coming back from the dead’ angle, there does seem to be a certain maturity and sincerity here, because, well, it’s true. The lyrics aren’t stunningly new, flitting through the pseudo-religious, the narcotic and the suicidal (‘Jesus Christ, what I don’t know about lightning/Cause I’ve been struck a thousand times before’, ‘Think I’ll take myself off to Heaven’, ‘Morphine, codeine, whiskey they don’t alter/the way I feel now death is no around’), but they manage to sound new, they manage to sound important, and there’s just something here that sticks (maybe it’s the fact it’s written in a minor key, which is fairly unusual for Jason). There are a lot of different ways this song could be taken – I think a ‘Ballad of Richie Lee’ style would suit, but that would be extremely obvious.

Baby, I’m Just A Fool – Hmmm, maybe it’s the recording I have of this, which is spoilt by the crowd, but this just sounds too silly and jolly to be taken seriously. I may be missing something – I probably am, I’m just going from one live version of a track which may be in it’s infancy – but I’ll give this one a miss. For the people who have heard this live – what’s your opinion?

Soul On Fire – A-Level Music Question: To what extent can Jason’s repeated use of the signifiers ‘fire’ and ‘electricity’ help to understand the thematic and sub textual elements underlying his songs? Discuss. Seriously, we had ‘On Fire’, then ‘Sitting on Fire’ then ‘Soul On Fire’…and back in the day, ‘Electric Mainline’, ‘Electric Phase’ ‘Electricity’…sorry, I’m just being facetious now. Again, this could be dismissed in the same way as ‘Goodnight, Goodnight’, that it’s not lyrically or musically ambitious enough, but that kind of misses the point. Minimalism can be good,
and this tune has a nice, light and catchy airiness that’s similar to ‘Do It All Over Again’. ‘Soul On Fire’ (which like ‘Sitting On Fire’ has been played at all of the Acoustic Mainlines shows I’ve heard, suggesting that it will be a key LP track) could be beefed up in a lot of different ways, but has enough to it now.

Amen – fantastic history to this one, evolving from Spacemen 3’s ‘Fixing To Die’ (on their very first demo tape, issued by Sympathy on CD in the 1990’s as ‘For All The Fucked Up Children Of This World’), then to ‘Amen’ (On the ‘Taking Drugs To Make Music To Take Drugs To’) via ‘Hey Man’ on ‘Sound Of Confusion’, the (finally released) majestic version demoed by Spiritualized (‘Amen’) and the Acoustic Mainlines version, which is nearly as brilliant. As I’ve said, I’d love to see a straight port of the Spiritualized demo with a re-recorded vocal. One can dream…



:D Goodchild posts - a cure for insomnia! :D
MUFCSPACEMAN
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Post by MUFCSPACEMAN »

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andyblacktoo
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Post by andyblacktoo »

it was rather super when they played feel so sad at summer sundae. i didnt know they would do it acoustic. and it was lovely. but then i was lucky enough to watch from the side of the stage.
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Post by BzaInSpace »

Wow, Ian Goodchild!

Welcome back sir.

All i'll say about Baby I'm Just A Fool is that even on the raw bootlegs it might be one of the greatest Spiritualized tunes yet. The Nottingham one is great, hearing it live in Edinburgh will take some beating.
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Post by runcible »

Likewise Ian. We missed you. Hope you hang around a while.
Multi
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's b

Post by Multi »

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Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's b

Post by Zenchan »

Ian Goodchild wrote: If Jason really needs to cover another Johnson song, 'Some Things Last A Long Time' is sensational.
Blimey, it isn't half! We really need a Daniel Johnston recommendation thread, as I have no idea where to start.
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Post by ononist »

Welcome back Ian.

I'm pretty sure that most of the new LP was in the bag before Jason became ill and therefore don't know how many of the Acoustic Mainline songs were written before or after that life-changing event.
Death Take Your Fiddle is surely post-illness.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's b

Post by radioshack »

Zenchan wrote:
Ian Goodchild wrote: If Jason really needs to cover another Johnson song, 'Some Things Last A Long Time' is sensational.
Blimey, it isn't half! We really need a Daniel Johnston recommendation thread, as I have no idea where to start.
Start with his album 1990, which contains all the songs covered on the Acoustic Mainlines shows. After that, if you liked 1990, go way back to the start and get Hi How Are You? and Yip/Jump Music.

That's what I'd say anyway. Some people say 1990 isn't the best starting point, but it's the most accessible album he made, and contains his signature songs.
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Post by angelsighs »

A very long but interesting post Mr G- actually i'm surprised we haven't had a "what do you think of the new songs" thread yet.

I agree with most of what's been said above, apart from the fact that I love Baby I'm Just A Fool! If I had to rate the songs from my favourite to least favourite it would go:

Sitting On Fire (I fuckin LOVE this song- i just wonder how big the arrangement is gonna be on the record. I reckon a big LICD reading could swamp it a bit and take away the vulnerablility.)
Baby I'm Just A Fool (enjoy the whole sneering, cynical demenour that Jason can turn on when he wants. I want to hear this rocked up. Another great 'us men are idiots' song to file alongside Don't Just Do Something and The Slide Song.)
Death Take Your Fiddle (chilling- some proper bare bones blues/folk from J. I wanna hear some subtle keyboards or maybe a droning cello.)
Soul On Fire (a bit poppy but i still like it)
Goodnight Goodnight (ok- it is rather sappy and the lyrics are a bit greetings card. BUT I think it works so well with the Funeral Home bit, I find that the coda makes the song much more moving. Dunno why- like you say just two words repeated!!)

Let's not get carried away, though- we haven't really heard "most of the album" just a handful of (excellent) songs that work best in the acoustic format.

As for the Daniel Johnston songs, I reckon (and hope) that only Funeral Home will make it onto the album, True Love.. could be a B side (far from pointless I think, I love Jasons version!!) and Devil Town i'm not too bothered about. 'Some Things Last A Long Time' is indeed a great tune that Jason could do a good version of- infact the chorus melody sounds a lot like the 'freedom is just another word' bit in Soul on Fire.
Ian Goodchild
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...

Post by Ian Goodchild »

That's true, Multi and I really wanted to know what other people thought would come out of the past few years of Acoustic Mainlines gigs LP wise - I certainly don't have any privileged insights. Personally though, I would be amazed to see any new 15 track Spiritualized LP (without reprises, or 'Pure Phase' type interludes).

I'd completely agree that there are just five songs mentioned, but this is five more songs than we heard before the bootlegs of 'Amazing Grace' did the rounds (discounting the Warchild mix of 'Hold On'). Further, as we heard on 'Pure Phase' (e.g. Take Good Care Of It, Lay Back In The Sun, Good Times, Medication, Let It Flow, These Blues, Born Never Asked, Electric Mainline, All Of My Tears) 90% of the LP had not only been heard before (live and multiple sessions) but had been released on other records/CDs (twice or more times in fact, and/or whilst Pierce was in other bands!).

I remember hearing in 1998, 1999 and 2000 that 'Let It Come Down' would be 'more spacey' too as well. When Spiritualized toured UK and US in 1998 (Spring to early summer) and late 1999 (when 'Do It All Over Again' and 'Sometimes' (the early title for 'Don't Just Do Something') debuted, both sounded totally spacey, and with DIAOA, a lot like the 2001 Evening Session version).

Everyone inferred that because of the extensive (and extremely enjoyable) use of drones, dubby, spacious tracks ('Home Of The Brave/The Individual', 'Sway', 'Take Good Care of It' and '200 Bars' played as a medley in particular are a joy to hear from Spring 1998) and the intermittent revival of 'Take me To The Other Side' from 1995 onwards that the next LP would be a return to the traditional 'Spacemen 3 sound'. The truth about the orchestral nature of the record was actually revealed quite late in the day.

Actually, what is the Spacemen 3 sound? The Sound of Confusion or Recurring? I think too many people regard the repeater drone, tremolo, endless versions of Suicide and Revolution, and Velvets/Zappa-esque feedback marathons as 'the Spacemen sound'. For me, the Spacemen sound was actually finally defined on Recurring.

There is also a Select interview conducted with Pierce in 1995, where he says that the next LP (Pure Phase, released the month after this very interview) would be 'less song driven [than the last one] and much more spacious...less controlled'. Again, from this, people inferred that the Spaceman sound would be back, but whilst PP was certainly less song driven, it was nothing like a Spaceman freakout, and Pure Phase just seemed weighed down by it's own conceptual themes and recurring motifs.

And never underestimate Pierce's tendency for recycling - bearing in mind the acoustic nature of the tracks we have heard live, who's to say that 'Come Down Softly To My Soul', or even 'Billy Whizz/Blue 1' won't re-appear? The tracks that Pierce has previously re-recorded for new LPs ('Lord, Can You Hear Me?', 'All Of My Tears', 'Medication', 'Walkin' With Jesus', 'Amen' etc.) and the number of reworked Spacemen 3 or early Spiritualized live tracks reappear with startling regularity. 'I Am What I Am' might also finally find a place here, as it was (surprisingly, and wrongly in my opinion) left off of 'Amazing Grace', where it could have replaced 'Never Goin' Back', 'She Kissed Me...' or 'Cheapster' nicely.

As a result of a lifetime of waiting for each and every Spiritualized LP, and reading everything I can about the impending record, and hearing all the recent live stuff as well, I don't think that any Spiritualized LP sounded like I expected it to, and whilst each Spiritualized LP is, in it's own way, a piece of God-like genius, only two official record exceeded my expectations (just LAGWAFIS and Amazing Grace, strangely. Obviously I have to exclude Blue On Blue and Friendly Fire, as I had no expectations of these). I think this is because for me, Spiritualized have always performed my favourite tracks better live than on record...anyone want a list from 1990 - 2007 of these for discussion?

Multi wrote:
Ian Goodchild wrote:we have probably heard a lot of the next LP
You listed only five songs that are probable to be on the new album. I would sincerely hope that after what Jason's been through and how long it's been since Amazing Grace, that we'll be getting more than 10 songs. Esp. considering the five tracks you mentioned aren't very long.

Also, I was told that the new material is more spacey than the last two records. So here's hoping we've only heard truly stripped down versions of a few of the songs.
Ian Goodchild
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the new songs

Post by Ian Goodchild »

Points well taken, and well made Angelsighs - I didn't connect that heartbroken Johnson chorus line - 'Some things....last...a long time' with 'Freedom...is just...another word' :D Superb spot. Ain't that song fantastic? Dead easy to play on piano too.

There really hasn't been a full discussion of the new tunes? Hasn't, like, everybody been to one gig, or got at least one decent bootleg of this?

What should we do - verdict on new tunes or comparison of Spiritualized live vs Spiritualized in studio, 1990-2007?
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...

Post by angelsighs »

Ian Goodchild wrote:
When Spiritualized toured UK and US in 1998 (Spring to early summer) and late 1999 (when 'Do It All Over Again' and 'Sometimes' (the early title for 'Don't Just Do Something') debuted, both sounded totally spacey, and with DIAOA, a lot like the 2001 Evening Session version).
Now this i'd love to hear.



And yeah I Am What I Am should totally be on the new album- cracking tune. A good companion piece to Baby I'm Just A Fool?
Multi
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...

Post by Multi »

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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by Shaun »

Man you do like to post long 8) . I started on an equally long reply but i keep on confusing myself and i'm struggling. But i got this far and apologies if it reads a bit dis-jointed.... :lol:
Ian Goodchild wrote:Because of the length of the AM tour, and the fact that it has encompassed both European, and American tours as well as multiple Festivals, and because it precedes, rather than promotes their latest (or next) release (same happened with LGM – every track except ‘Symphony Space’ had been played live, and all recorded by mid-1991, before the finished product was released in late-Spring 1992), we have probably heard a lot of the next LP – albeit in an acoustic format.
He's not toured it in America yet, has he ? The AM tour has been a long one though, with a break included, and now it seems it's got a lot of gigs left in it. Incidentally, when did it start ? Was the Daniel Johnson show the platform to kick-start it ? Maybe all the new songs (not the covers) from the AM tour(s) will feature on the next album as that album was close to being finished even before Jason got very ill, the string sections hadn't been recorded but they weren't far off having the album finished even then. I don't know how true that is, it's just what i was told. Picking what tracks from the new album to play acoustic might have been tricky, but i bet they all end up on the new album, some might be very different and some not so different after getting an acoustic make-over. There's some demos already for any future rare outtake releases.
Ian Goodchild wrote:Amen – fantastic history to this one, evolving from Spacemen 3’s ‘Fixing To Die’ (on their very first demo tape, issued by Sympathy on CD in the 1990’s as ‘For All The Fucked Up Children Of This World’), then to ‘Amen’ (On the ‘Taking Drugs To Make Music To Take Drugs To’) via ‘Hey Man’ on ‘Sound Of Confusion’, the (finally released) majestic version demoed by Spiritualized (‘Amen’) and the Acoustic Mainlines version, which is nearly as brilliant. As I’ve said, I’d love to see a straight port of the Spiritualized demo with a re-recorded vocal. One can dream…
Will that make it on the next album ? 'Lord Can You Hear Me?' was on LICD. Perhaps it might be just the track to bring the next best Spiritualized album to an end, can't see it fitting in anywhere else but last. Or what about 'Feel So Sad' ? It could happen, couldn't it ?


By the way Ian, did you get to see an Acoustic Mainline show ? If not the one (if it happens) at The Union Chapel in December looks very special and possibly a last chance. I highly recommend to anyone they see an AM show. And good to see you back on here posting essays again :D
angelsighs wrote: Goodnight Goodnight (ok- it is rather sappy and the lyrics are a bit greetings card. BUT I think it works so well with the Funeral Home bit, I find that the coda makes the song much more moving. Dunno why- like you say just two words repeated!!)
Almost agree with that 100% except that i don't find 'Goodnight Goodnight' that sappy. 'Funeral Home' and really you're spot on about that. It was jaw-droppingly moving at Nottingham, despite what challenges the church threw up sound-wise. It was even better in Manchester. We'll all have our different highlights, that is one of mine.
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Re:

Post by Shaun »

ononist wrote:Death Take Your Fiddle is surely post-illness.
It definately does sound like a post-illness track and hard to listen to it without thinking otherwise. Be interesting to read the interviews and Jason being asked the obvious question "So, did you write 'Death Take Your Fiddle' after your serious illness?" to which Spaceman might reply, "Dunno, yeah probably did. What do you think?"
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by Shaun »

Ian Goodchild wrote: Further, as we heard on 'Pure Phase' (e.g. Take Good Care Of It, Lay Back In The Sun, Good Times, Medication, Let It Flow, These Blues, Born Never Asked, Electric Mainline, All Of My Tears) 90% of the LP had not only been heard before (live and multiple sessions) but had been released on other records/CDs (twice or more times in fact, and/or whilst Pierce was in other bands!).

Wasn't it around that time they were playing live early versions LAGWAFIS tracks ? Certainly a partial 'Cop Shoot Cop' and quite an alternative sounding 'Come Together'. Was there anymore that appeared ?
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Re: Re:

Post by jack white »

The Jig wrote:
ononist wrote:Death Take Your Fiddle is surely post-illness.
It definately does sound like a post-illness track and hard to listen to it without thinking otherwise. Be interesting to read the interviews and Jason being asked the obvious question "So, did you write 'Death Take Your Fiddle' after your serious illness?" to which Spaceman might reply, "Dunno, yeah probably did. What do you think?"
but does Won't Get To Heaven (or even the final two tracks of LICD) not taken on an extra dimension since the last few years?
my point is that i don't think it makes much difference when the songs have been born. which of course is something you all probably know and accept anyway. and i do concede that it probably does have some interest, if not impact. carry on. ignore me. (though i do find it pretty easy to escape the mindset of comparing the new material to the recent illness - it is only really the older stuff that has taken on a slightly more inescapably - but not even - ironic bent. though the acoustic mainlines Amen in particular is most affecting and affected by the new climate.)


(and were Amen to make a recorded Spiritualized appearance, i'd hope it'd be as a bside - or better still that Acoustic Mainlines live record. i'm of the school of thought that Lord Can You Hear Me? LICD is superfluous, to be generous.)
gonna burn brightly
for a while
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Re: Lots of made up stuff masquerading as fact :Goodchild's back

Post by BzaInSpace »

What the..?

This whole thread is an exercise in speculation, this whole "100% not on the album" stuff is just cringe worthy to be honest. I know none of its based on the truth - and I suspect if you knew this as fact why would you bother?

As it its, the likes of "Death Take Your Fiddle" were written - and performed electrically - before any illness. There were posts here at one point from a very well connected source to say that the new songs eerily seemed to mirror real life events that happened afterwards.

I also think that the AM take of "True Love Will Find You In The End" is in NO WAY inferior to any other version including Spectrum and the original, to me its probably better.
To say a version on a long deleted Spectrum single is superior may seem obscure and cool but how many have actually heard it? It most certainly isn't by the way....Seeing that song performed live on the AM tour seemed to melt everyones minds. There is an awesome take of it segueing into 'Walking With Jesus' from the Daniel Johnston show that if had been heard here would dismiss any fanciful notion of the song being 'pointless'...

Some of these songs mentioned in this post were performed at the electric Sage gig that some from here attended. I'd rather here what they had to say about the tunes - if they can remember :wink: - than total speculation... :D

And its worth saying again...and again...that 'Baby I'm Just A Fool' is the best song Dylan never wrote and even as a live version immediately makes it into the top 10 spiritualized tunes. Now thats a fact... :D

In saying this, great to have Ian back. Those with memories intact will recall that Ian was the first here to listen to 'Amazing Grace' on these threads and gave it a write up on the old blue pages that made me tremble with excitement, and he was absolutely right!!!

When 26$ is able to post more frequently watch for some sparring arguments between Ian and 26 that make MUFC Vs Cohaul seem like a mere footnote :lol:
O P 8
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Re: Goodchild's back

Post by BzaInSpace »

I'm of the 'school of thought' that say that 'Lord Can You Hear Me' as played on Let It Come Down is one of the greatest tunes ever recorded by anyone, ever and easily beats the original to a bloody pulp. The idea of it being superfluous is absolutely ridiculous!
From the first time I heard it I was genuinly astonished and still am. The original is all right but... It's all right. The full scale version on the other hand is mind blowing. Its perfect!
O P 8
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Re: Lots of made up stuff masquerading as fact :Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

BzaInSpace wrote:
I also think that the AM take of "True Love Will Find You In The End" is in NO WAY inferior to any other version including Spectrum and the original, to me its probably better.
To say a version on a long deleted Spectrum single is superior may seem obscure and cool but how many have actually heard it? It most certainly isn't by the way....Seeing that song performed live on the AM tour seemed to melt everyones minds.
I disagree. I think Jason covering that song was sort of pointless although it was quite nice. There have been several instances of Jason following in Pete's footsteps since the demise of Spacemen 3 and this was simply another. You must remember that Pete was an incredible influence on Jason in terms of his musical tastes and I'd gamble that Pete's fascination with Daniel Johnston made a large impact.

Plus I think Pete's version is better I'm afraid. He just made it a little bit sweeter.
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Re: Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

BzaInSpace wrote:I'm of the 'school of thought' that say that 'Lord Can You Hear Me' as played on Let It Come Down is one of the greatest tunes ever recorded by anyone, ever and easily beats the original to a bloody pulp. The idea of it being superfluous is absolutely ridiculous!
From the first time I heard it I was genuinly astonished and still am. The original is all right but... It's all right. The full scale version on the other hand is mind blowing. Its perfect!


I disagree again here! The original has a fragility the LICD version could never match. Not only is it one of Jason's greatest Spacemen 3 moments but it's place on Playing With Fire in terms of track order, following Suicide, was inspired. Never was an album so superbly closed. It's worthy noting that Pete regards this as a candidate for Jason's finest song. When things were really unpleasant between them - I'm talking about '93 or '94 - and he was easily drawn into criticising Jason I remember him becoming almost misty eyed in rapture when talking about LCYHM such is his immense admiration for it - and Jason's song-writing ability in general.

I was amazed when Jason included it on LICD as I felt it was.... well, superfluous really. Sure it sounds really good but it never had a hope in hell of being superior to the original.

Ian is absolutely spot on on Jason's reuse of older songs. They are glorious live and they are all cracking songs but I feel their inclusion as a new recording is in no way a step forward; it's more treading water. There are unreleased Spiritualized tracks in existence so why rehash old songs that are so extraodinary redoing them serves no purpose? This is why Pure Phase, great album though it sounds now, was something of a let down when it was released. Such a large percentage of the songs were old, as Ian rightly points out. All Of My Tears is more than superfluous - again the original possesses such a delicate and fragile quality that it should have been left well alone. It works less well than the re-recorded Lord Can You Hear Me actually as it sounds a little overblown when the original was comparatively simple and deliberately so.

I'm guessing that people who got into Jason's music post as opposed to pre-Spacemen 3 split will divide into preferring the Spiritualized versions to the original, in just the same way that the same group prefer Recurring to other Spacemen albums. That's not a criticism along the lines of 'I-was-into-them-earleir-than-anyone-else' by the way, simply an observation. I was lucky enough to see the Spacemen a few times and I may regard them as my all time favourite band but the highest heights of Spiritualized (which would be gigs) surpass my greatest Spacemen 3 live memories.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by BzaInSpace »

That's probably what it comes down to - I didn't hear Playing With Fire until way after getting into Spiritualized. It might have been about 1999 before I heard it so I guess my sense of how important it might be is skewed.

Same with Pure Phase - because I heard it originally well after it had been released to me its one complete, fantastic piece of work - hearing the single versions of some of the tunes much later on were a bonus! If they had been the same tracks fair enough, but the album version of 'Medication' blows the earlier single take out of the water as far as i'm concerned! Again, my sense of taking that album in will be different from a lot of you are concerned as I didn't hear all the singles before the album came out.

And on to 'Lord Can You Hear Me', c'mon, the Let It Come Down version is probably the Spiritualized track, that gorgeous vocal from Mimi Turner, the beautiful slide guitar, the finest distillation of the live-experience-yet-on-record for the latter half - to me it pisses over the original. :twisted: Not that I dislike the original, but for me its just a simple blues number compared to the full on electric version later. I would think J would only do a song again if there was something new to bring to it and in this case its absolutely justified. 'Lord Can You Hear Me' from Let It Come Down sounds like birth and life and death and beyond all in four minutes. Amazing.

...this was really an attempt to kick start the new forum with some heated dialogue. Its seems to be very quiet around here Runcible....
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by MODLAB »

Now i need to listen to all the versions i have...


M
Design.
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Re: "Controversy"

Post by BzaInSpace »

runcible wrote: I disagree again here! The original has a fragility the LICD version could never match. Not only is it one of Jason's greatest Spacemen 3 moments but it's place on Playing With Fire in terms of track order, following Suicide, was inspired...
Now that explains something. The CD I have of Playing With Fire finished with live versions of Suicide and Repeater, so i've never heard that in the sense of being a closing track.
runcible wrote: I'm guessing that people who got into Jason's music post as opposed to pre-Spacemen 3 split will divide into preferring the Spiritualized versions to the original, in just the same way that the same group prefer Recurring to other Spacemen albums.
.
Recurring has some amazing tracks, and some that are not so good. Some of the production now sounds really dated, especially on 'Big City'. I think the Electric Prunes version is so much better. The Recurring take is definetly a pointless remake. Its sounds like a Casio demo...

Sacred cows? Let's take 'em out one by one... :twisted:

As far as best SP3 albums, I would probably go for Perfect Prescription, but the sound quality on my CD is terrible to be honest. Same with Playing With Fire. I would love to hear those albums with a good remaster, or even just as they were meant to sound. [I should of course get the Space Age issues...] But the Fire CDs sound really shit. I can't think of any other albums on a professional [?]label that sound so muted and have a lack of dynamics. Even reissues of 1940s blues tracks sound more lively. 'Take Me To The Other' Side limps out of the speakers instead of knocking you down to be honest...

If they were to put out a soundboard recording of that awesome Switzerland SP3 show posted kindly here not so long ago that would be the ultimate Spacemen 3 album I think.
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Re: "Controversy"

Post by Fuzzhead »

BzaInSpace wrote: As far as best SP3 albums, I would probably go for Perfect Prescription, but the sound quality on my CD is terrible to be honest. Same with Playing With Fire. I would love to hear those albums with a good remaster, or even just as they were meant to sound. [I should of course get the Space Age issues...] But the Fire CDs sound really shit. I can't think of any other albums on a professional [?]label that sound so muted and have a lack of dynamics. Even reissues of 1940s blues tracks sound more lively. 'Take Me To The Other' Side limps out of the speakers instead of knocking you down to be honest...

If they were to put out a soundboard recording of that awesome Switzerland SP3 show posted kindly here not so long ago that would be the ultimate Spacemen 3 album I think.
BZA, I share your frustration on this one. The Fire CD of Perfect Prescription is shocking. It's so quiet and it's a real insult to such a stunning album. In contrast, compare the quality of the Fire version to the Space Age Forged Prescriptions. I know they're different versions, but the sound quality on FP blows the Fire PP away.

The sound quality on a lot of my Spacemen 3 Glass vinyl annoys me too. Yesterday I played my Walkin' With Jesus 12" and was so diasppointed with how flat it sounded. It's not my system's fault either. Is anyone else underwhelmed with the sound on their Spacemen vinyl?

I'm going to give some more Spacemen vinyl another listen later.
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Re: Lots of made up stuff masquerading as fact :Goodchild's back

Post by Shaun »

BzaInSpace wrote:the likes of "Death Take Your Fiddle" were written - and performed electrically - before any illness.

Some of these songs mentioned in this post were performed at the electric Sage gig that some from here attended. I'd rather here what they had to say about the tunes - if they can remember - than total speculation...
Bza is quite right, 'Death Take Your Fiddle' was peformed at the Sage. But the title itself will pose the question for people to ask if it's a reference to a very bad illness. When anyone don't know otherwise (because of this board we're in the know) it's going to be an obvious question.

As for the rest of that, i was at the Sage and can honestly say (as of this moment) i don't remember a single note or chord played and word sang (or is that sung?) plus leaving the building is becoming a blur.
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Re: Lots of made up stuff masquerading as fact :Goodchild's back

Post by noisette »

The Jig wrote:
As for the rest of that, i was at the Sage and can honestly say (as of this moment) i don't remember a single note or chord played and word sang (or is that sung?) plus leaving the building is becoming a blur.


hmm.... me too, except for completely different reasons.



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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

A quick note as I've got a spare half-hour! As with Amazing Grace (and Let It Come Down, for that matter) I'm scrupulously avoiding commenting or even speculating on any of the music until I've had a chance to digest it in some legitimate form - usually it takes me 2-5 full listens, about a week. So Ian and I probably won't start butting heads in earnest until early-to-mid '08. I do think it's particularly irresponsible to try come to any substantive conclusions about the amount of Daniel Johnston material we're likely to encounter on the next LP (my guess, by the way, is None).

As for the two studio versions of Lord Can You Hear Me?, it's an old argument. The one on LICD came with a certain sense of inevitability; I recall it being generally assumed that Jason was going to do a larger version of it someday, and LICD was always going to be his largest canvas. I don't know if it's worthwhile arguing over whether it's better or not - I don't think it is, I prefer the intimacy of the original, but I'm glad the valedictory version exists, because (among other things) of what it says about Jason's relationship with his early career, and also because it would have been frustrating had it never happened. That is to say, if the larger version had never been produced, we would probably still be wondering when he'd get around to giving what most people regard as one of the 2 or 3 greatest Spacemen 3 recordings the gargantuan Spiritualized treatment.

It does appear likely now that Jason will be re-recording Amen/Hey Man, a wonderfully offbeat (and yet entirely apt) choice. Perhaps the album (or b-side) version will get a folksy Otis Redding treatment - in fact I hope it goes in that direction. It will be no less moving for that. I think Peter takes sole credit for assembling (as opposed to writing...) the song so it's a nice gesture (like "True Love..." - though nothing more) in that regard. This leaves relatively few Jason-authored Sp3 tunes untouched, by the way - off the top of my head -

- 2.35
- Come Down Easy
- Soul 1
- Come Down Softly To My Soul

(I leave Recurring aside, of course, and note that Things'll... and Take Me To... have been in the live book for years.) The first three seem unlikely to rate revisiting, and "Come Down Softly" is arguably out of character with Jason's work since LAGWAFIS, but throughout his career (and increasingly lately) Jason's shown an interest in reviving his early catalogue as repertory, which I find interesting. So don't be shocked if "Come Down Softly..." turns up as track 12 of Spiritualized 2012.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

By the way, if we're revisiting the rank-the-Spacemen-3 album debate, the answer is number 1 is Playing With Fire and number 2 is Performance and number 3 is Perfect Prescription and number 4 is Sound of Confusion and they're all indispensible four-star records but that's my order of preference.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the various CD versions of Playing With Fire. They are all adequate and the Space Age version is not noticeably superior to the others. It is Perfect Prescription that is in desperate need of clean-up; all (all!) released versions border on the unlistenable at times, although it goes without saying that the Taang! version is the worst of all (although the Taang! PWF - mastered from the Fire CD - is perfectly acceptable).
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by angelsighs »

You don't like Recurring $26? or you just consider it two solo EPs?

The weak sound of Perfect Prescription is very frustrating to me too. Take Me To The Other Side should charge, not limp, out of the speakers. The chunkier sound is one (of many)reasons why Forged Prescriptions is so damn good. I bet i'm not the only person to make an 'alt' version of PP with all the best versions.

And why are you so sure Amen/Hey Man will be reprised for the new record?
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

Now I never said I was sure (about Amen/Hey Man being re-recorded). But it seems like an unlikely choice for a live revival (unlike TMTTOS, which was a single, and Things'll, which could have been) unless Jason's planning on using it, at least as a b-side, more likely as an album track - which is something we know he's wont to do. But I can't guarantee it. I was pretty sure TMTTOS was going to turn up on Amazing Grace, after all.

No, I don't like Recurring much, and not (just?) because it doesn't belong in the canon. It has some nice songs, to be sure - the two sides I hold in about equal esteem now, with Peter's being mercilessly uneven and Jason's being, conversely, rather monotonous. Of the original album tracks, "Set Me Free", "Why Couldn't I See", "Just To See You Smile" and maybe "Feeling Just Fine" rank among the group's best material, but the rest I think is among their least interesting and engaging.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by angelsighs »

Thinking about it a bit more, I reckon you could be right- Amen was an unlikely (although now obviously brilliant) choice to be resurrected for Acoustic Mainlines, but could slot in thematically and musically with the new material with ease. Possibly as album closer or as penultimate choice to Goodnight Goodnight? Hell, who knows this as all speculation at this early, many-months-to-go point :(

I wish Jason would capture the Spiritualized version of TMTTOS in the studio- I reckon the versions aired on Let It Come Down era gigs were just storming. It maybe wouldn't have fitted in on Amazing Grace, though, both in terms of general sound (it may share the 'garage-rock' sensibilities on the surface, but it's a different beast deep down I think) and quality (i'm no AG hater, but it would have made the rest of the album seem a bit limp).

And, I love Recurring! Both sides of it!
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

$26 - I find your revaluation of this stuff very interesting I must say. It's something I've noticed you constantly do which means you're listening to the albums regularly and noticing how they sound over the years.

Not too long ago you said you couldn't work out PWF anymore, so you've obviously given it a listen and found fresh perspective. For me it was the 1st Spacemen 3 album I bought on release - the only genuine sickie I ever threw in my life was that day and I raced down to Rough Trade for their delivery time, bought the new album, took it home and then listened to it all day in a haze of smoke. I'll always remember it - the fact that the press had dramatically altered their opinion on the Spacemen and were regarding this as a genuine classic was exciting, but that the album held up to the praise was even more so.

The other Spacemen albums I came to after release but friends were going ballistic about PP so I bought it a couple of months after it came out.

My order is:
1. Perfect Prescription (still the greatest album ever made by anyone)
2. Playing With Fire
3. Sound of Confusion
4. Performance
5. Recurring

I love Recurring but its way below the others and $26's opinion of it is close to my own I'd say, in terms of the better songs. I suspect I like it more. And of all the songs Jason should bring out of hibernation 'Feelin' Just Fine' stands out a mile for me. The early live versions of that are absolutely incredible - anyone who hasn't heard them needs to! I also miss the pounding versions of 'Run' that were regulars at earlier gigs.
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Re: "Controversy"

Post by Zenchan »

Fuzzhead wrote: BZA, I share your frustration on this one. The Fire CD of Perfect Prescription is shocking. It's so quiet and it's a real insult to such a stunning album. In contrast, compare the quality of the Fire version to the Space Age Forged Prescriptions. I know they're different versions, but the sound quality on FP blows the Fire PP away.

The sound quality on a lot of my Spacemen 3 Glass vinyl annoys me too. Yesterday I played my Walkin' With Jesus 12" and was so diasppointed with how flat it sounded. It's not my system's fault either. Is anyone else underwhelmed with the sound on their Spacemen vinyl?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way about the Fire CD of Perfect Prescription. The Fire CD compilation of the Glass vinyls is a lot better, but still noticeably flawed (and I don't consider myself an audio elitist to begin with!).
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

runcible wrote:$26 - I find your revaluation of this stuff very interesting I must say. It's something I've noticed you constantly do which means you're listening to the albums regularly and noticing how they sound over the years.

Not too long ago you said you couldn't work out PWF anymore, so you've obviously given it a listen and found fresh perspective.
Runcie, you've exactly nailed my listening habits and critical approach. Which is why it took me so long for me to send you a top ten, and why that ten keeps changing unto irrelevance. I keep listening. Whether something grabs me or challenges me or just sits wrong, I keep listening. I think it's something we've all got to do. I'd rather be inconsistent (or self-contradictory) than miss out on something special!
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by Ian Goodchild »

:D Oooh! Oh! I can disagree with $26, just like long ago. I've missed doing that! :wink: I kid, I kid. But you did say you found Playing With Fire 'over-rated' and 'uninspired' (your words).

This leaves relatively few Jason-authored Sp3 tunes untouched, by the way - off the top of my head -

- 2.35
- Come Down Easy
- Soul 1
- Come Down Softly To My Soul

Actually, only 'Come Down Softly To My Soul' (which can be lumped with all of the Recurring track as essentially a post-Spacemen 3 song) could be called a Pierce song, and no revisisionist historian can say that Pierce even had the majority musical or lyrical share on any of the others mentioned.

Soul 1 - Totally co-written and played as Spacemen 3 - see early issues of Outer Limits, and all demos, outtakes and rarities. Sonic described in 1993 as a ' ...tribute to the Stax sound.' (nb. ever heard Pierce say anything like that?). Despite sounding rather dull on the Glass/Fire issue of TPP - as an LP, this is one of the most hideously produced/mixed/mastered/re-mastered messes ever. I don't know where or why the audio texture and quality and level are so bad here, but it's certainly not the songs - each of which is fucking fantastic (an LP with Take Me To The Other Side, Come Down Easy, Walkin' With Jesus, Things'll Never Be The Same...think about it: Jason is still living off this LP, and why the fuck not?). If you listen to the (now rather old) Taang! re-issue, or better still go out and buy 'Forged Prescriptions' (which is super fan-fucking tastic, and as accesible to new as well as long haul Spiritualized/Sonic Boom/Spacemen 3 fans) you'll probably hear just how stupidly simple this is, but how joyous.

Come Down Easy - Everything above applies, and this was a total musical and lyrical Kember/Pierce collaboration from start to finish (again, listen to the 'Forged Prescriptions' version for another slab of lovely country/drone rock into why Spacemen 3 exert the influence they do, and why airbrushing Sonic into a 'supporting role' is, like, evil). Live - on the few occasions this was played - Sonic would usually fill in on organ duties. Having said that, it's astonishing that this hasn't been resurrected for Acoustic Mainlines ('In two thousand and seven/All I want to do/Is get stoned').

But '2.35' is no more a Pierce song than 'That's Just Fine', 'I Believe It' 'O.D.Catastrophe', or 'Losing Touch With My Mind'...(the latter two are so derivative of their sources, the extent to which they are Kember/Pierce songs could actually be questioned). Also, lest we forget, Pierce's original lyrics for 'Walkin With Jesus' were 'Can't stand this life without sweet heroin' or that three STUDIO versions of 'Take Me To The Other Side' included Pierce's line: 'I put a spike into my veins/then (or, 'I tell you') things don't (and/or 'ever') feel the same' which Sonic changed. Or so he says.

Last thing: when a band covers itself, the 'new' versions thing? (e.g. 'All Of My Tears', 'Lord, Can You Hear Me?' etc.) is always a taste issue. My perspective (gosh! I sound self-importantly sad sometimes) is that LCYHM is essentially honest, more beautiful and most heartbreaking on 'Playing With Fire', and the stripped down demo version on the Space Age 2-CD even more so. Absolutely desolate. The LICD version is magnificent too though (I wet my pants when they played this live at Meltdown in 1998, it came out of nowhere, and that version is the definitive bridge between the two), but in a more bombastic way. It's so good, it even kind of forgets the way it used to sound. Mind you, I love Low's cover of that song to, and the fact that Mimi provides vocals on both makes a magnificent circle from 1988/89 to 2002. 'All Of My Tears' I'm sorry, but to me it just sounds horrible on PP. I just cannot bring myself to listen to this, although I entirely and totally understand that some people really love the PP version, and think the PWF version is just weak. At least there's not the Velvet Underground/Lou Reed thing going on...I mean, any Lou Reed versions of any VU songs are just universally awful, live or studio (this excludes the fantastic demos and outtakes from Loaded, which became much of Berlin and Transformer, but these were Lou Reed demos for Lou Reed).
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

Mostly spot on. Of course Come Down Easy is another version of whatever the original was - a Dylan track was it or some old blues standard? But Led Zep did a version of it ('In My Time Of Dying') and others have too. There's a thread here about it that $26 wrote - that was very interesting.

Pete and Jason did tend to sing the songs they'd either written themselves or written the majority of, apart from SOC where Jason was left to take on all vocals. It was because Pete didn't like the way Jason sang a lot of the songs live he'd written that he started singing them himself after the 1st album.

It's always interested me that people prefer the built up versions of the PWF tracks that Spiritualized did. I find them a touch over-produced and what was so incredible about them the 1st time round was the very simple nature of their construction even though the enormous atmosphere they generate makes them sound pretty gigantic in my opinion. MUFCSPACEMAN said he regards all Spacemen 3 as 'lo-fi' but the quiet nature of most of PWF and the incredible surge of Suicide, for me, sets PWF apart as an album where the sound is full and anything but lo-fi. That was another point I found interesting and made me go and re-listen (which is always a good thing!).
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

A mutual friend of mine and my wife's was over for dinner the other night and one of the records that got played was Playing With Fire. As I've noted above, PWF is currently my favorite Sp3 record - I've been on a PWF kick for about a year - and "Lord Can You Hear Me" is almost certainly the strongest song on it (and you've got to admire any performer that holds onto their best song until the very last track). All that said, what our friend said made me laugh - not in derision, but in amused recognition.

"It sounds like 'Everybody Hurts'".

And no matter how far superior the PWF version is to the LICD version, I don't think anyone would claim the latter sounds like 'Everybody Hurts'.

=============
When I compiled my list of "Pierce" songs above, it was understood that most of them were collaborations to some extent. My list is based on what Peter has said lately [on this forum] about their authorship. (Except "Soul 1", which was strictly a guess.)

=============
Some of the live VU songs on Animal Serenade are pretty good - "Venus In Furs" in particular.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by mh »

Since we're obviously well off topic by now...

Yes, TPP is the greatest SP3 album. But - sadly - also, yes, the comments about it's dreadful sound quality are only too true. And the saddest thing is that the Fire release of Translucent Flashbacks shows that it is possible to do a decent mastering job on these tracks, so the only thing that's missing is the will. Maybe if enough of us petitioned Fire for a good quality reissue something might happen, but I can't help feeling that the financial incentive is what matters most here.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by mh »

twentysixdollars wrote:"It sounds like 'Everybody Hurts'".
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, the chords/etc are pretty much the same, you know...
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

mh wrote:
twentysixdollars wrote:"It sounds like 'Everybody Hurts'".
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, the chords/etc are pretty much the same, you know...
But then chuck in 90% of lullaby tracks - they also have the same structure. Shine A Light isn't that different.

And, of course, reggae all sounds the same. :wink:
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

runcible wrote: But then chuck in 90% of lullaby tracks - they also have the same structure. Shine A Light isn't that different.
Actually, "Shine a Light" is quite different - for one thing it has an ambiguous key center.
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by runcible »

Clever clogs. You know what I mean.

How come you ignored the line about reggae? Add to that all rock and rock sounds the same. So does blues. And hip hop. No?
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

Mostly that's right on some level, at least - except that the very same formal qualities that make a given genre sound 'all the same' are also the qualities (or features, or conventions) that define it as a genre...and really, since most Western music uses the same handful of scales it might be said - at an appropriate distance - to also 'all sound the same'...I didn't respond at first because it's rather an interesting notion once you get down to it and I wasn't in an interesting mood just then!
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by Zenchan »

twentysixdollars wrote: Some of the live VU songs on Animal Serenade are pretty good - "Venus In Furs" in particular.
Animal Serenade is the only Lou Reed record I still listen to, I really don't care too much for the studio albums (on the subject of his modern stuff, I thought bits of The Raven were stunning but you had to wade through a lot of shite to find them. Anyway, I guess this isn't a Lou Reed thread! :wink: ).

On topic, what officially available version of Walking With Jesus (on any Spacemen 3 or Spiritualized release, live, demo or studio) do most of you consider to be the best? Personally I've always loved the Glass Singles version the best, I'm not a big fan of the Perfect Prescription version (even taking the awful mastering into consideration).
natty
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by natty »

Northampton demo/Glass single. It's the feedback.
Last edited by natty on Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
twentysixdollars
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by twentysixdollars »

So the demo is in fact the same take as the single, then. I've always been curious about that but not curious enough to actually ask, since they're so similar I thought I'd come off obtuse if I missed something so obvious. Were any other of the Northampton demos officially released prior to the Father Yod LP? The vocal version of "That's Just Fine" is also quite similar (though not identical - perhaps a different take from the same session) to the instrumental b-side version.

Anyway, the answer is the Perfect Prescription version, although the guitary version on Forged is up there.
Multi
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's b

Post by Multi »

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Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
sunray
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by sunray »

I would have to go for the Forged version also,although to be honest the only version i dont like is the Live at RAH which i always find a tad insulting to all the other versions!Special mention for the Fucked up inside version which is fantastic.
Nineteen...Nineteen...Six Five
natty
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by natty »

The "That's Just Fine" on the single is the same version as the Northampton demo. The band weren't happy with the vocals and planned to record them again at some point but never got round to it. I think it's better as an instrumental, in fact it's one of my favourite Spacemen tracks. I really like the version of WWJ from "Fucked-Up Inside" as well. I think it's the best Spiritualized version.
Last edited by natty on Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
sunray
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Re: Lots of great things in a very long post...Goodchild's back

Post by sunray »

Just remembered there's two versions of WWJ on Forged so i should have said the version on disc 2 is my fave above all others. Sky kissingly high!
Nineteen...Nineteen...Six Five
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