Jools Holland

For new sounds, old sounds and favourite sound discussion...

Moderators: sunny, BzaInSpace, runcible, spzretent

Post Reply
radioshack
Known user
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:03 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Jools Holland

Post by radioshack »

Anyone see it? Unfortunately for Blur, Spiritualized played 'Come Together' right before Blur came on with 'Tender.' Can totally see where Stuart from Mogwai was coming from :lol:
ORBITAL
Known user
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Drinking Breaker at night, in the cold duchess light.

Post by ORBITAL »

Was the best JH show IVe watched in ages. Always has a load od fuckin shite on the show theses days so a 'greatest hits' tyep thing was much more enjoyable. Even Elastica which brought back fond memories of TRIGGER HAPPY TV. The proper version. Not that shite american one. If it aint broke....
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
ORBITAL
Known user
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Drinking Breaker at night, in the cold duchess light.

Post by ORBITAL »

Excyuse the spellin. Was my baithday bash last night. Was trousered.
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
radioshack
Known user
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:03 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Post by radioshack »

yeah, t'was great. The Verve, Pulp and Radiohead were also fantastic.
sly saxon
Known user
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: where everybody knows your name

Re: Jools Holland

Post by sly saxon »

radioshack wrote:Anyone see it? Unfortunately for Blur, Spiritualized played 'Come Together' right before Blur came on with 'Tender.' Can totally see where Stuart from Mogwai was coming from :lol:
Funny, I saw that bit of it, and (with the nonsense elsewhere here in my mind) couldn't really see any connection between the two performances... do you think that Spiritualized invented gospel chiors on pop records? Anthems? What? :roll:
It's all happening!
ORBITAL
Known user
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Drinking Breaker at night, in the cold duchess light.

Post by ORBITAL »

Maybe it was just his 'BLUR ARE SHITE' T shirt he used to wear he was on about.
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
radioshack
Known user
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:03 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Post by radioshack »

Musically they are similar, start in the key of A and have one simple chord change, feature a gospel choir, similar melody phrasing. That Blur song came out in 1999, so it can be assumed that Albarn was 'influenced' by Come Together. If you listen to the album '13' where Tender came from, you'll hear that no other song on the album sounds like it. Overall, you could say that Albarn stole Spaceman's idea(s) and got a hit single out of it. I don't have a problem with Tender or Blur myself, just that Mogwai's opinion made sense when I heard the two songs played back-to-back, that's all.
clewsr
Known user
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Post by clewsr »

crickey - blur steal spiritualized's ideas shock! Its not like Jason's ever appropriated anything from anyone else ever is it? Whole sets of lyrics? cop shoot cop - and countless other 'influences' you could list. I just don't get the double standard here.

Anyway I thought Tender was meant to be most similar to Cool Waves - And to take both of those songs side by side Tender is the better track - in my opinion...
ORBITAL
Known user
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Drinking Breaker at night, in the cold duchess light.

Post by ORBITAL »

I quite liked 'Tender' myself. Not a bad song.
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

i have to agree, tender is defo one of the best tracks from blur=shite. they should rip-off spiritualized more often.

as for it being better than cool waves. dunno know about that. cool waves took awhile to sink in to me, but its actually one of my fav tracks. ohhh well.


xxxshonnxxx
BzaInSpace
Site Admin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: HELL

Post by BzaInSpace »

Damn right Shonn.

With Spiritualized recordings you at least get the impression some of the greats have been listened to - in the used example of 'Cool Waves', early-period Staple Singers with a bit of Astral Weeks as a starting point perhaps?


Wheras with Blur you suspect Damon heard 'Ladies & Gentlemen...' and was glad he'd found his latest 'style'.

Scratch that, you KNOW it!



WHY INDIE PUNX STILL SUX # 8

A gospel choir has long been bolted on to any number of lumpy, grey shite indie tunes in an attempt at instant 'soulfulness'.

Even the mighty SpiritualizedR are guilty of this!


NEXT TIME - Why Tremeloes = Drug Abuse
clewsr
Known user
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Post by clewsr »

BzaInSpace wrote:Damn right Shonn.

WHY INDIE PUNX STILL SUX # 8

A gospel choir has long been bolted on to any number of lumpy, grey shite indie tunes in an attempt at instant 'soulfulness'.

Even the mighty SpiritualizedR are guilty of this!


NEXT TIME - Why Tremeloes = Drug Abuse
True enough.

I'm not sure why the Verve didn't come in for any criticsm on this thread - they stole elements of spiritualized's sound in a much more systematic way than a one off song by blurr. But hey, they say imitation is the best form of flattery.
blancheflower
Known user
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: london

Tender

Post by blancheflower »

I cannot remember where but I read someone at the time who described Tender as Spiritualized covered by the Mike Flowers Pop Band (they did a bossanova version of Wonderwall I think).
A definite hammer and nailhead interface there

Also while Jason has musical sticky fingers he's far from retiscent about it and there's some distance between nicking off Staples, Robert Johnson, Wilson et al and making a chart friendly bastardised version of your contemporarys and passing it off as your own. At least I think there is.
clewsr
Known user
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Post by clewsr »

ah but I liked Mr Flower's version of wonderwall as well. :oops:

<Gets Coat>
ORBITAL
Known user
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Drinking Breaker at night, in the cold duchess light.

Post by ORBITAL »

I think the Ryan aadams take on wonderwall is quite refreshing although Im not into his music in general.
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
veiko
Known user
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Estonia

Post by veiko »

Here's bloody stressfully freshing version of our local wedding song called "Wonderwall":

http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/lancelockar ... _page.html

:shock:
sly saxon
Known user
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: where everybody knows your name

Re: Tender

Post by sly saxon »

blancheflower wrote:
Also while Jason has musical sticky fingers he's far from retiscent about it and there's some distance between nicking off Staples, Robert Johnson, Wilson et al and making a chart friendly bastardised version of your contemporarys and passing it off as your own. At least I think there is.
I'm getting pretty tired of this.

1. Damon/the other ones have produced some brilliant records over the years. The Parklife album alone, is probably the best collection of songs of the whole of the '90's, and that is a fact. The Eponymous album is pretty good too, in completely different ways.

2. They have changed their sound (a bit) over the years to reflect a number of things: one of these may be to keep people interested (ie buying). If you want to call this "bandwagon jumping", go ahead. Just remember that probably says more about what you think of them than what is actually happening.

3. Unfortunately, they've sold shit loads of records. That rules them out of being any good at all, doesn't it?

4. The only X references between Blur/Spz I've found suggest that you have trouble telling a rhetorical simile/metaphor from an absolute truth. In your world, Damon Albarn ACTUALLY sat in a darkened room (better yet - a hollowed out Pacific Island volcano) listening to LGM, crossing out the words 'lord' and writing in the word 'come on', before turning the yellow pages to "Christian Singers - Groups". The truth is he, like the rest of us live in a world where Brian Wilson, Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, Ray Davies, Primal Scream, Phil Spector, Queen, Elgar, Handel whatever, all made songs with choirs on, recorded them/performed them in public/sold sheet music on the open market, so that they became part of the common currency of the ciulture (innit).

4. You don't like them. Fair enough. You have your reasons. But you are wrong.

I'm tired now. Enjoy the football.
It's all happening!
veiko
Known user
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Estonia

Post by veiko »

i'll enjoy my wrong. thanx, daddy.
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

go on sly, now try and defend that SHIT ASS solo record, go on, your feeling all high and mighty. BLUR=SHITE, just face the facts, best album of the fucking nineties, are you seriously retarded?


xxxshonnxxx


p/s don't get pissed off sly, you opened the door!
jess farr
Known user
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: austin tx
Contact:

Post by jess farr »

clewsr wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote:Damn right Shonn.

WHY INDIE PUNX STILL SUX # 8

A gospel choir has long been bolted on to any number of lumpy, grey shite indie tunes in an attempt at instant 'soulfulness'.

Even the mighty SpiritualizedR are guilty of this!


NEXT TIME - Why Tremeloes = Drug Abuse
True enough.

I'm not sure why the Verve didn't come in for any criticsm on this thread - they stole elements of spiritualized's sound in a much more systematic way than a one off song by blurr. But hey, they say imitation is the best form of flattery.
please elaborate...
I don't see too much systematic thievery between the Verve and SPZ
unless stealing the singers girlfriend counts.
radioshack
Known user
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:03 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Post by radioshack »

I agree that the Blur album has some good stuff on it, and the 13 album is good, but The Great Escape is contender for the worst album by a British band in the 1990's. Sound of Albarn going up his own arse.
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

gotta back mr. farr on this. i feel that the verve and spz were more like contemporaries. like said, the only thing stolen was girlies.


xxxshonnxxx
clewsr
Known user
Posts: 1983
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am

Post by clewsr »

a beautiful noise wrote:gotta back mr. farr on this. i feel that the verve and spz were more like contemporaries. like said, the only thing stolen was girlies.


xxxshonnxxx
Verve were not very Verve like when they first started out. I think at one point very early on they supported Spiritualized and their sound was greatly influenced by Spiritalized. Jason was asked about it in an interview and I think he responded with an 'it happens' kind of shrug.

But its funny though isn't it? You liked the Verve so they were contempories, yet you don't like blur so they're theiving bastards. I guess its all about the way you look at things.
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

once again wrong. but hey your on a streak so stick with it clewsr. blur bounce around from fad to fad, style to style. there is a reason people really, really dislike blur, cause they equal shite. its that simple. the verve on the other hand started off brilliantly, an unfortunately ended up dead in a toilet somewhere "theiving " from the rolling stones, who theived it from a classical bit. but what they did in between the start and the finish, at times was absolutely amazing. damon is a genre hoping twat, with shit to say. sorry, easy as that. i don't blame graham for leaving, he truly was the only person worth a shit in the project. i saw blur in the states supporting their first album, they were crap then. i saw them at a festival a few years back once again, CRAP. i never saw blur as contemporaries of spiritualized, the verve though, absolutely.



xxxshonnxxx

p/s to be honest clewsr, i tried to give blurs recent album a fair listen, its pointless, they're shite. and he's a fool.
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

but then again clewsr, so was richard ashcrofts. i give up!




xxxshonnxxx
sly saxon
Known user
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: where everybody knows your name

Post by sly saxon »

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm ... 17-3427964

You ought to hook up with this guy - you seem to have similar methods of forming opinions (stuff I like = good. Stuff I like = bad...horrid...getitawayfromme!!!
It's all happening!
blancheflower
Known user
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: london

Re: Tender

Post by blancheflower »

I'm getting pretty tired of this.

1. Damon/the other ones have produced some brilliant records over the years. The Parklife album alone, is probably the best collection of songs of the whole of the '90's, and that is a fact.

No it's not, not by a long chalk

3. Unfortunately, they've sold shit loads of records. That rules them out of being any good at all, doesn't it?

Quite correct, just like Marvin Gaye.

4. The only X references between Blur/Spz I've found suggest that you have trouble telling a rhetorical simile/metaphor from an absolute truth. In your world, Damon Albarn ACTUALLY sat in a darkened room (better yet - a hollowed out Pacific Island volcano) listening to LGM, crossing out the words 'lord' and writing in the word 'come on', before turning the yellow pages to "Christian Singers - Groups". The truth is he, like the rest of us live in a world where Brian Wilson, Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, Ray Davies, Primal Scream, Phil Spector, Queen, Elgar, Handel whatever, all made songs with choirs on, recorded them/performed them in public/sold sheet music on the open market, so that they became part of the common currency of the ciulture (innit).

My troubles with similies are a whole other story. Truth is it sounds like a pastiche of Spiritualized. I don't think Damo thought it through in a machevellian manner (volvanoes I hadn't thought about) that you ascribed to me, I think he liked the sound and the love lorn ambience and nicked it.


4. You don't like them. Fair enough. You have your reasons. But you are wrong.

You're right, I'm entitled to my views. The mistake is your idea that terms like "right" can be meaningfully applied to subjective opinions. Am I morally wrong not to like Blur? Are they a cause?

How can you like a band with that bass player?
Leggy Mountbatten
Known user
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Rutland

Post by Leggy Mountbatten »

a beautiful noise wrote:blur are cunts i saw it on a tshirt once. i liked the idea and i stole it like a cunt. and anyone who likes them is a cunt too and a thick cunt too. i saw it on a t shirt once. you. you are a cunt. and a thick cunt too. you cunt.
:wink:
a beautiful noise
Known user
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: things are easier said than done

Post by a beautiful noise »

hey now, i didn't say that. that sounds more like ORBITALS filty scotish mouth than mine. but i like it none the less.


xxxshonnxxx
Post Reply