Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

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Stuart X.Hunter
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Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

Discuss...
:D
Last edited by Stuart X.Hunter on Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by purespace »

*deleted in the interest of civility and decorum*
Last edited by purespace on Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

Apologies; bit of a lame way to start a thread but just wondered if anyone had any views on him music/production style etc...

As a further to purespace comments on the "trial"; I was quite saddened to learn that he had a child that died on Christmas day...puts a new take on the Christmas gift he produced.

Only reason that I started this thread is that i'm being blown away at present by the Back to Mono boxset.

ta
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by purespace »

yeah, bit off handed of me to do granted. . .

Suppose I've had it with American style celebrity "justice" and a mistrial in a case where he is obviously guilty of murder and will probably walk. The man has a trail of misogynous abuse coming out his arse. Again, sorry if the thread's supposed to be about the music; my own character flaws won't allow me past my complete disgust for him as a human being.
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

purespace wrote:yeah, bit off handed of me to do granted. . .

Suppose I've had it with American style celebrity "justice" and a mistrial in a case where he is obviously guilty of murder and will probably walk. The man has a trail of misogynous abuse coming out his arse. Again, sorry if the thread's supposed to be about the music; my own character flaws won't allow me past my complete disgust for him as a human being.
No probs...threads are threads; they run the way they run. I'd argue the point that it's probably not just in celebrity land where the concept of throwing money at something usually makes it disapear...I'm sure whatever the truth is that punsihment will never go a-miss...it has a habit of materialising in so many forms does the good ol' punishment.

As an aside; I find decorum such a lovely word...dunno something about the sound it's a very strong word but has soothing compassionate air about it. Thanks for using it and for allowing me to mention that.

Anyway; I think everyone of us (maybe not) has had a laugh at the Righteous Brothers at some point but christ can they sing...Ebb Tide par example
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by sunny »

There was something on telly about Spector last night. I only caught the end of it, but what I did see was pretty disturbing. It's sad for everyone involved (including Spector himself) that he has been enabled, or at least not hindered, in terrorising and abusing people close to him. There's plenty of abusive geniuses around and when they obtain fame and fortune it's even less likely that anyone will step in to stop them acting out their delusions. Not all artists keep people around who will tell them when they've lost the plot and offer up any reality checks and/or solutions. But yeah, it's pretty fucked up on so many levels. It doesn't erase my appreciation of Spector's musical talents, but it does break my heart. :(

Reminds me of a Goya quote;
'Fantasy, abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters; united with it, she is the mother of the arts and the origin of marvels.'

Maybe that's true of life as well as art...
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Re: Phil Spector

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

You're right it is tragic but that's always been the mainstay in celebrity land...tragedy shifts units...talent helps (and from what i've heard Spector had it in spades) but when creating a myth you have to have something else. Guess even Philip bought into that.

I think we've reached the end in this thread as while the music will always speak volumes the persona and events surrounding the man have forced who he is to take a back seat. Like you said sunny; it's really hard doing what you want far easier to convince yourself things are unattainable and surround yourself with excuses when the chips are down.

Christ; I've been a bit of a miserable so-and-so today. :lol:

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Re: Phil Spector

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

sunny wrote:
Reminds me of a Goya quote;
'Fantasy, abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters; united with it, she is the mother of the arts and the origin of marvels.'

Maybe that's true of life as well as art...
Yes; art, music, dance etc are just expressions of how we are feeling but carried out in a conveniently safe way, kinda like wearing a mask...identity is slightly protected. It's like when you get an interviewer asking a song-writer what such and such a song is about...they're hardly going to allow you access to what is probably a very personal feeling; i certainly wouldn't allow a stranger access to my deepest thoughts. Instead you get a diluted and safe version. It's good for me as i'm more interested in my own journey with a song (selfish that way).

I like the quote...who was Goya? I've heard the name but i don't want to have to run to wikipedia, again.

I like to think that it still has a delicious triumphancy about it too if you flip it 'round and say that sometimes you simply have to abandon reason in order to behold marvels...or is that actually a (subconciously) calculated leap...

Hello, you have joined the philosophers thread; please leave everything you've ever known at the front door...along with your shoes...this is a shoes off house.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by ro »

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:Yes; art, music, dance etc are just expressions of how we are feeling but carried out in a conveniently safe way, kinda like wearing a mask...identity is slightly protected.
or cast off, temporarily.. Expression as a showcase for common universality?

Goya was a smart guy (and a Spanish painter, late 18th c. and/or a canned bean company).. That is a great quote, Sunny, thanks for that!
eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:...sometimes you simply have to abandon reason in order to behold marvels
right on.

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Re: Phil Spector

Post by sunny »

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote: I like the quote...who was Goya? I've heard the name but i don't want to have to run to wikipedia, again.
Francisco de Goya was a Spanish painter (mid 18th to mid 19th century), from a town near Zaragoza in the Kingdom of Arragon (I went there on a small pilgrimage recently). He started off innocently enough doing society portraits (which I checked out in the museum of Zaragoza), but later in life (after witnessing the horrors of war and torture) he did a series of murals now called 'the Black Paintings' which I saw at the Prado Museum in Madrid. Don't know how to describe them... horrific and genius all at the same time.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2 ... rch+Images
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by twentysixdollars »

The only thing Phil ever had on Brian Wilson (or anyone else for that matter) was a .38 pistol. Screw him. There were better and more restrained 'girl group' productions elsewhere - sure, the 'Nettes and the Crystals had the best tunes, but it's not like Spector wrote them - and his latter-day material gets by on the backs of his artists and his alleged legend and that's that.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

twentysixdollars wrote:The only thing Phil ever had on Brian Wilson (or anyone else for that matter) was a .38 pistol. Screw him. There were better and more restrained 'girl group' productions elsewhere - sure, the 'Nettes and the Crystals had the best tunes, but it's not like Spector wrote them - and his latter-day material gets by on the backs of his artists and his alleged legend and that's that.
Unfortunately I can't comment on anyone else in the same vein as I simply don't know. What latter day material are you referring too; his work with the Fab Four, Ramones and Starsailor. I dunno $26; he still spotted the talent, composed/arranged the music and employed the song-writers.

Just a quick listen to Ike & Tina' "River Deep, Mountain High" (a vesuvius of a track with many explosions) sells me on his talent and that is just one track of that album. Perhaps he suffered from one-trick pony syndrome (i don't know, haven't lent my ear enough yet) but that track is still very fresh and probably more contemporary than any of today's music.

Anyway...break over back to class
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

Ro & Sunny; thanks for the brief intro to Goya. I had a hunch he was an artist but for some reason i was thinking Gaughan(spelling?). That's coming from someone who studied Fine Art...well that was about 10yrs ago.

I wish I appreciated paintings when I studied; truthfully I didn't (probably as I don't have the patience to paint, it's a very taxing medium i find) and spent most of my time constructing things (artworks?) that didn't really belong where they were constructed.

I like Goya' work...well the black paintings link...the painting of the creature/monster feasting on the naked female reminded me instantly of the wrenched/agonied depiction of the horse in Picasso' Guernica. Furthermore his exagerrated grotesque painting of faces is similar to what Scotlands own Peter Howson has done for impact.

Yes I'll go back to them. Thanks
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by sunny »

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:Ro & Sunny; thanks for the brief intro to Goya. I had a hunch he was an artist but for some reason i was thinking Gaughan(spelling?). That's coming from someone who studied Fine Art...well that was about 10yrs ago.

I wish I appreciated paintings when I studied; truthfully I didn't (probably as I don't have the patience to paint, it's a very taxing medium i find) and spent most of my time constructing things (artworks?) that didn't really belong where they were constructed.

I like Goya' work...well the black paintings link...the painting of the creature/monster feasting on the naked female reminded me instantly of the wrenched/agonied depiction of the horse in Picasso' Guernica. Furthermore his exagerrated grotesque painting of faces is similar to what Scotlands own Peter Howson has done for impact.

Yes I'll go back to them. Thanks
Gaugin is another one of my favourites...It's this who you mean?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&c ... a=N&tab=wi

It's hard to appreciate things whilst studying it, and sometimes crappy teachers (and hormones) make it even worse. I started off very intersted in art when I was little and then forgot about it for many years. Music was the only 'artform' that survived my teenage years. But the last few years I have started to miss some of my earlier interests and nowadays when I'm on tour I make the effort to go and see diferrent exhibitions, check out buildings and visit botanical gardens or anything else that takes my fancy. Being stuck in a venue or pub all day/every day has lost it's luster and I crave other inputs of information. I was recently in Norway and had a chance to go to the Munch museum there, and also the Mucha gallery in Prague. The Prado in Madrid had loads that I have been meaning to see, El Greco, Bosch and many, many more. I've also started re-reading some of the credo's and philosophies behind the different movements and it has actually been very helpful in explaining and putting words to what I'm searching for and trying to achieve creatively with my own music. So now I think of it as food...it all gets used.
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by twentysixdollars »

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:
twentysixdollars wrote:The only thing Phil ever had on Brian Wilson (or anyone else for that matter) was a .38 pistol. Screw him. There were better and more restrained 'girl group' productions elsewhere - sure, the 'Nettes and the Crystals had the best tunes, but it's not like Spector wrote them - and his latter-day material gets by on the backs of his artists and his alleged legend and that's that.
Unfortunately I can't comment on anyone else in the same vein as I simply don't know. What latter day material are you referring too; his work with the Fab Four, Ramones and Starsailor. I dunno $26; he still spotted the talent, composed/arranged the music and employed the song-writers.

Just a quick listen to Ike & Tina' "River Deep, Mountain High" (a vesuvius of a track with many explosions) sells me on his talent and that is just one track of that album. Perhaps he suffered from one-trick pony syndrome (i don't know, haven't lent my ear enough yet) but that track is still very fresh and probably more contemporary than any of today's music.

Anyway...break over back to class
"River Deep Mountain High" - song and album - gets less interesting the older you are. Loud, yes (Loud), with lots of booming crescendos, but mustn't confuse histrionics with drama. The former is a tasteless extrapolation of the latter. It's not real soul music but a game of let's pretend, on Phil's part disagreeably factitious.

By his latter-day work I mean Ramones, Dion, Leonard Cohen and the like. '70s work. I haven't heard Starsailor and for that I am grateful.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

sunny wrote:It's hard to appreciate things whilst studying it, and sometimes crappy teachers (and hormones) make it even worse. I started off very intersted in art when I was little and then forgot about it for many years. Music was the only 'artform' that survived my teenage years. But the last few years I have started to miss some of my earlier interests and nowadays when I'm on tour I make the effort to go and see diferrent exhibitions, check out buildings and visit botanical gardens or anything else that takes my fancy. Being stuck in a venue or pub all day/every day has lost it's luster and I crave other inputs of information. I was recently in Norway and had a chance to go to the Munch museum there, and also the Mucha gallery in Prague. The Prado in Madrid had loads that I have been meaning to see, El Greco, Bosch and many, many more. I've also started re-reading some of the credo's and philosophies behind the different movements and it has actually been very helpful in explaining and putting words to what I'm searching for and trying to achieve creatively with my own music. So now I think of it as food...it all gets used.
:D
That's good; similarly I have started to find paintings (and more biblical imagery) very satisfying. Apologies that I can't name a particular school or group of artists (the answers being locked in file 38 in my head and i've misplaced the key) but certainly it's a drastic move away from the contemporary/conceptual gash that I was drooling over as a teenager/twenty something. Perhaps it's down to not really having to deal with any of the many human emotions that can pass you by when you're younger. I'm more interested now in the actual story a painting depicts than say questioning what a set of lights going off-on-off-on is saying.

I'll always have a soft spot for Pollock and for Raushenburg (particularly his expansive murals) but the rest of what I bothered myself with as a young-un is almost forgotten.
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

twentysixdollars wrote: "River Deep Mountain High" - song and album - gets less interesting the older you are. Loud, yes (Loud), with lots of booming crescendos, but mustn't confuse histrionics with drama. The former is a tasteless extrapolation of the latter. It's not real soul music but a game of let's pretend, on Phil's part disagreeably factitious.

By his latter-day work I mean Ramones, Dion, Leonard Cohen and the like. '70s work. I haven't heard Starsailor and for that I am grateful.
To carry on your drama...(apologies in advance for that line)
What about fun? Sounds like a fun song to me. I remember my aunties (the smirnoff sisters) playing that when i was 10 and it still sounds good to me, twenty years later. Soul ~ I don't know what real soul is either and wether Phil had his ears pointed towards other music labels (of the time) when he produced that, i don't know, do you?...I don't see Spector tunes as being anything that aligns with what soul music (probably) is. To me it's more fantasy music, theatre or musicals (probably does it a diservice) but it still has merits y'know. I think there is soul in that tune and on that album, the same way as there is soul in the Starsailor album and in the same way you could put your ear to the city streets and hear a million souls hopes and fears booming out of the tarmac. I'm trying to get away from the critical aspect of listening to music and just enjoy and after a year of immersing myself in almost no-beat techno it's a pleasure to hear sweet voices backed with interesting and enjoyable harmonies, orchestration and sounds.

Right that's one for the 2CD Dion album i was gonna pick up and one against.
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by a beautiful shonn »

i'd say grab the Dion box set. it's gotta be worth it if you get it at a fair price.

as for spector, all i care about is the legacy of music he has left us. total genius.

me.

p/s- sorry i'm constantly misplacing tidbits of paper with my passwords on them.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by twentysixdollars »

Mind you, Dion is good and the Spector album is OK if a little lugubrious. I just don't think Spector brought much to it.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by ThiefofFire »

I've been listening to the Back to Mono boxed set too and I've decided that my favorite track is probably the Ronettes' 'I Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine' (unreleased at the time), which is part of the pre-show mix for the Acoustic Mainlines shows. The odd thing about the boxed set is that since the trial the price got slashed dramatically (down to $20 from $80 I think) and now it seems to be semi-out of print, here in the US anyway. I wonder what the story is there

Did anyone here read the tabloid story months back with all the quotes from Spector insulting various music icons? The nastiest of them all: "I don't feel sorry for Brian Wilson. I never thought he was that talented to begin with . . . I'd be more impressed if somebody with a brain idolized me." This was from an interview just weeks before the murder.

As evil as he is, and no matter where the credit is really due, I still love almost everything he produced... but I'll agree with the earlier comment that Brian was/is in fact more talented

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

ThiefofFire wrote:I've been listening to the Back to Mono boxed set too and I've decided that my favorite track is probably the Ronettes' 'I Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine' (unreleased at the time).
I heard Beth Orton' version of that track first...have you heard that, thief?

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by sunny »

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote:That's good; similarly I have started to find paintings (and more biblical imagery) very satisfying. Apologies that I can't name a particular school or group of artists (the answers being locked in file 38 in my head and i've misplaced the key) but certainly it's a drastic move away from the contemporary/conceptual gash that I was drooling over as a teenager/twenty something. Perhaps it's down to not really having to deal with any of the many human emotions that can pass you by when you're younger. I'm more interested now in the actual story a painting depicts than say questioning what a set of lights going off-on-off-on is saying.
I'll always have a soft spot for Pollock and for Raushenburg (particularly his expansive murals) but the rest of what I bothered myself with as a young-un is almost forgotten.
You remind me of something I just read;
'...we often find the Old Masters difficult-more difficult, if we are honest, than some contemporary painters and sculptors who are notorious for the difficulties they present. But often the situation is different; we think we understand the work of art which discloses itself to us, while in fact we are missing half of it's meaning....As often as not, we modern pagans are simply bewildered by the very thing which was intended to enlighten us.'

After hearing some of my music, a friend recently turned me on to the Symbolist movement (some of which I was vaguely familiar with, but certainly not knowledgeable about). The more I immersed myself in the subject, the more answers it has presented to my own creative problems. I have been trying to achieve a similar effect with sound as the symbolist did with their art;
'... behind the shapes and colours to be found on the picture surface, there's always something else, another realm another order of meaning.'
I have always been very fond of hidden meanings and stories, personal allegories and riddles to be solved. Layer upon layer, and story within a story...The closer to the centre you get, the closer to my true self. Of course, I'm not sure whether I will ever actually achieve this...but I enjoy trying. :lol:

Anyway, I'm glad you are enjoying paintings and biblical imagery! I think there's a lot of potent stuff out there. There's still a lot of modern art I do like, but it's nice to be able to get something from older stuff too.

Sorry everyone for hi-jacking the Phil Spector thread!
The rest of you now more about him than I do, so there's really nothing useful for me to add on that topic.
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by sunray »

Anyone know Paul Calf's number? :lol:
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by ThiefofFire »

elektronik, now I've heard Beth Orton's version, it's very nice

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by twentysixdollars »

ThiefofFire wrote:I've been listening to the Back to Mono boxed set too and I've decided that my favorite track is probably the Ronettes' 'I Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine' (unreleased at the time), which is part of the pre-show mix for the Acoustic Mainlines shows. The odd thing about the boxed set is that since the trial the price got slashed dramatically (down to $20 from $80 I think) and now it seems to be semi-out of print, here in the US anyway. I wonder what the story is there
It's just old, is all. I thought they might be working on a new one.

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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by jack white »

i know it doesn't especially belong in here, but rather than make a new thread (and i can't see it mentioned elsewhere on the board)...

jason was interviewed in the recent mojo in "the best thing i've heard all year" round-up section and listed the two volumes of the jack nitzsche story (amongst twoo other records that i can't remember right now).
he actually mentions he believe nizsche doesn't get enough credit for his work with/under spector. which i thought was probably fair enough. i'd maybe feel stronger if i cared enough to see how much authority spector claimed over the whole thing (though i imagine a lot).
those nitzsche sets are terrific mind.

busted out the spector christmas album a few weeks back. it's good fun. a lot of his stuff was good fun. his name sits alongside a lot of good music. it maybe sits alongside some crap to, but nobody has a flawless body of work that i've yet come across. as for his behaviour, well... everyone has their problems.
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Re: Phil Spector & A Brief Introduction to Philosophy

Post by KevW »

Well I've got to say I'm a massive fan of Phil Spector and own nearly everything he's recorded.

My fave tunes?

Well here's 5 I absolutely love

Keep On Dancing - The Ronettes
Long Way To Be Happy - Darlene Love (which I'll be playing on my show tomorrow)
I'll Never Need More Than This - Ike And Tina
To Know Him Is To Love Him - Teddy Bears
Do I Love You - The Ronettes

Obvious ones maybe but all classics.

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