Spiritualized and christianity/god

[sty]

I saw one of the recent Spiritualized Acoustic Mainlines at Union Chapel, London and (perhaps partly because of the venue) the number of references Jason makes to God/Jesus/Heaven/the Lord etc was something that left me wondering exactly where he stands on religion. Despite him referencing religion on pretty much every other Spiritualized track I've never got the impression that he is truly a Christian. Are the references simply meant to be ironic or evoke sympathy for his often seemingly drug-induced and heart-broken state?

I've been a fan for ten years now and its not something i've ever read much about. Interviews that I have read often concentrated on the drugs thing and the split with Kate, aswell as the music itself and much-publicised fall outs with former Spacemen 3 and Spiritualized members.

Can anyone here shed a bit of light on the religion thing? I know there are many avid fans that post on here that may know something....

I'm an athiest myself by the way.

[twentysixdollars]

Jason Pierce is actually a devout Mormon, which he has been since 1987. In fact, the title The Perfect Prescription is a play on the similarity of the acronyms LSD (the hallucinogen lysergic acid) and LDS (i.e., The Church of Latter-Day Saints - the mainstream Mormon organization). Other famous practitioners of Mormonism include such contemporary rock and roll luminaries as Noel Gallagher of Oasis, Julian Casablancos of The Strokes and Massachusetts governer and Republican presidential candidate Milton "Mitt" Romney.

[thinline]

Now THAT I did not know...I mean, I knew he wasn't Christian but I'd have never thought he was a Mormon...you learn something new everyday....

[bcastle21]

i think mr. $26 is pulling your chains...

[sunny]

I saw one of the recent Spiritualized Acoustic Mainlines at Union Chapel, London and (perhaps partly because of the venue) the number of references Jason makes to God/Jesus/Heaven/the Lord etc was something that left me wondering exactly where he stands on religion. Despite him referencing religion on pretty much every other Spiritualized track I've never got the impression that he is truly a Christian. Are the references simply meant to be ironic or evoke sympathy for his often seemingly drug-induced and heart-broken state?
Can anyone here shed a bit of light on the religion thing? I know there are many avid fans that post on here that may know something....

How could anyone else shed any light on this apart from Jason? He's pretty articulate, so I'm sure if he wanted to be obvious about it he would.
Part of what I like about Spiritualized is the ambiguity and double meanings. It leaves things open for the listener to do what they like with. Who knows if Spiritualized are 'religious', but I certainly have a religious experience watching them...

Coincidentaly, I have been reading about scientific research done on brain waves and how similar they appear during a variety of different activities such as hypnosis, dreaming, religious exctasy, meditating, chanting, listening to certain type of music, visually disorienting experiments and of course drugs...Maybe Spz is just another way of 'getting out of your head' haha.

I enjoy time dilation myself...

[thinline]

i think mr. $26 is pulling your chains...

you don't say?

[sunray]

Was always under the impression that he had no time for organised religion at least.
According to Erik Morse's Spacemen 3 book Jason's dad was strictly religious and left the family while J was young which i suppose would've contributed to his views. Certainly the fact that he named himself as the Irreverend J Spaceman as choir arranger on LAGWAFIS lends itself to this i think.

$26 i would love to think Noel Gallagher was a Mormon.

[purespace]

The recent offering of Silent Night is quite a revelation. His interviews have portrayed a man that is not religious, but his music informs the foggiest edges of my life.

[Horrorflick]

mormons freak me out, even Alan and Mimi... (Low)

[Stuart X.Hunter]

I saw one of the recent Spiritualized Acoustic Mainlines at Union Chapel, London and (perhaps partly because of the venue) the number of references Jason makes to God/Jesus/Heaven/the Lord etc was something that left me wondering exactly where he stands on religion. Despite him referencing religion on pretty much every other Spiritualized track I've never got the impression that he is truly a Christian. Are the references simply meant to be ironic or evoke sympathy for his often seemingly drug-induced and heart-broken state?

I've been a fan for ten years now and its not something i've ever read much about. Interviews that I have read often concentrated on the drugs thing and the split with Kate, aswell as the music itself and much-publicised fall outs with former Spacemen 3 and Spiritualized members.

Can anyone here shed a bit of light on the religion thing? I know there are many avid fans that post on here that may know something....

I'm an athiest myself by the way.

Firstly, hello all hope you's had a good yule n that.
Sty, what's an atheist?

Me personally; I see the songs (and there are many of them) that reference God (in all his forms, there's a hint!) as being pure prayer. I also think his more scathing critiscisms or despair at God is purely exploration of spirituality. I said in a post donks ago (under another moniker) that i was sick to the back teeth of the spiritual referencing (i know, idiot) but it's comforting to hear someone else; when all avenues have been tried ~ going through a spiritual journey to get answers.
I don't buy the religion thing ~ religion is just a bastardisation of a journey towards true enlightenment (for me). I mean who decided it become so formulaic...y'know...follow what we say on sunday and you'll get through the pearly gates. If that's the case we should really all be lying down until we pop our clogs then we're assured safe passage ~ trust me, read the catholic catechism, read some of the books by those who have shaped catholicism ~ eye opening. I'm using that religion as it's my only reference. Life aint like that though is it. What I love hearing in Pierce' (lets drop the Spiritualized tag) is his effort in trying to be as complete a person as he can. Sure we all fall down/get knocked over as there's demons 'round every corner but dust yourself down, drag yourself back up, get strong and then get stronger and then try and get it right, right for yourself and the people you love. It's life, it's life there right in the fabric of those songs...everything...little keys. His songs are enriching, nourishing, give you hope and when the chips are down something you can call on to put an arm around you and soothe and let you breathe and learn and hope. I think it's more of an awakening of the soul than a religious experience with Spiritualized. I mean lets be honest if there was no TV cameras at Songs of Praise; it would just be another half-empty, dreary repetitious effort at going through the motions. We're very fortunate to have heard the music that Spritualized have given over the years and like good prayer it's not over after you've heard it a thousand times...it's timeless, it's there-use it, benefit from it.

And to focus on what sunny said below about it being there for the listener to do what they like with...yes, yes, yes...nail on the head. I'd love to hear more about what a song means to each of us then have wild conjectures about what it absolutely means. Finally to finish on a quote from another lyriscist in the same "searcher" mould as JP..."There aint no real truths, there aint no real lies, keep on pushing 'cause I know it's there".

Good topic sty by the way...enjoying it

[Stuart X.Hunter]

Part of what I like about Spiritualized is the ambiguity and double meanings.

Out of interest do you have a favourite?

I've always loved Lord Let it Rain on Me for the following reasons;
It's such a cleansing sound~the slight pause/delay (it's further extended towards the end with excellent effect) between verse and chorus...the waiting, the looking skyward, the imminent promise (probably more expectation) of salvation (all be it doesn't materialise)...love that.
I've always really felt the words "I'm about ready now" because i've been there (hopefully we all have or i'm doing something wrong). I don't see it as a want to pass from this earth but more as a need to unveil the Lords plan for the writer...God i'm sure takes great delight in being a subtle so an so. My Grandpa used to say (I learned recently) that "God's mill grinds long and slow".
I enjoy how personable the writer is with Jesus (and this can be seen in other songs) especially with the way he comments on the promise of Heaven with the slightly jibey/jovial "Jesus Christ (this could also just be exasperation) look what you gone and done, 2000yrs of looking down the barrel of a gun". It's also a hugely complimentary line i.e. acknowledging Jesus takes the path less travelled.
The line about "don't believe your promises, don't believe your lies" is so touching as it breaks into the first run of the chorus. I don't believe you but I put my trust and faith in you. Unfotunately God doesn't work the way we desire (in my opinion). He gives glimpses but not everything at once. Kinda similar to St. Augustine cry of "grant me chastity but not yet". It was eventually granted but it felt like he made the decision himself. Compassionate or what?
"Got the fools believing that there's something else to gain"...a self-effacing line if the writer was being honest. I often ask myself the question (and not just in relation to spirituality) "who really are the fools?"..."Jesus Christ when are you coming down again?"...because this life, this life is a struggle, it's hard-ship as we navigate towards the many things that destroy us, destroy our souls. These aren't my words; a priest said this to me and I think it's the frankest thing any holy-person has said to me.
"I'll sell my soul to let it roll"...three-pronged, the soul is usually sold to the devil but better the devil you know or is the writer referencing Golgotha (Hebrew meaning "to roll") otherwise known as Calvary where Jesus was crucified and where his tomb was? Or his he directly referencing the moving of the stone from the tomb in order for Jesus to come back down again?.
Massive song...honestly I'm effin shocked when i read the list of Novello awards and there is no Jason Pierce there. I know he didn't conciously write this songs with many of the meanings/effects i've dropped but to me that makes it all the better because it's already in there (subconciously) with him.
Beautiful tune...
Sty, you do realise you've sorta started the thread i've been waiting on!!!

[sunny]

Hey been trying to reply...my internet connection has being moody for a
few days, not sure it will let me post.

'Lord Let It Rain On Me' is a very good example and one of my favourites. It
changes meaning for me depending on what state of mind I'm in. That is
actually one of the main reasons I still listen to all the Spz albums
regularly, because they have an ability to shift shape depending on what I
need to hear at any given time. Very few lyricist do that for me (Bob Dylan
does)...giving me an almost 'prophetic' connection/explanation to whatever
I'm going through in life at any particular time. I know this is completely
subjective... (and I'm finding it hard to put into words right now).

As for as the actual song goes, I've been able to relate to it in very
different and sometimes opposing states of mind. I've been able to sing it
to myself both in courageous/hopeful states of mind or in states of self
loathing and/or blasphemous (against God/love/universe or whatever) states
of mind. Someone with a different background to me will surely relate to it
in an entirely different but equally as valid and interesting way. In fact,
I'd love to hear what other people's interpretations are. My opinion of
songs and music is that once it has been released it belongs as much to the
listener as it does to the creator (in a spiritual sense, not financially).
So I don't really care why Jason wrote it or what he intended (unless it was
very, very specific)- it is now mine.

[mkb]

The line about "don't believe your promises, don't believe your lies"

Slightly off topic, but the first time I ever heard this song I thought the line was "don't believe your promises, so don't believe in mine", which I actually prefer.

[Stuart X.Hunter]

The line about "don't believe your promises, don't believe your lies"

Slightly off topic, but the first time I ever heard this song I thought the line was "don't believe your promises, so don't believe in mine", which I actually prefer.

Cool as mucker. In another thread I believed the opening line to Sally Cinammon was "I told Sally I was never happy"...when the actual line is "Until Sally I was never happy". Whole new slant...where is MUFC Spamuel L Spacemen?

Cheers

[KevW]

I'm pretty sure I've read him saying that he doesn't believe in God. He was asked about the references in an interview. I don't remember the exact quote but basically he said he uses religious references because they're so powerful.

[sunny]

I'm pretty sure I've read him saying that he doesn't believe in God. He was asked about the references in an interview. I don't remember the exact quote but basically he said he uses religious references because they're so powerful.

I've sometimes wondered how musicians deal with being asked things like that in 'public'. Personally i'd probably have a very hard time giving a completely sincere and accurate answer. It would be very tempting to go evasive. For one, I think it's a very personal and private issue (and just because you express something artistically doesn't mean you want to explain it further). The pitfalls of pinning down or explaining any sort of beliefs (or lack thereof) are so many. I consider myself a believer, but I'd never cast my lot or want to be confused with traditional church going types, or any institutionalized religion for that matter. There's been too much intolerance, narrow mindedness, hypocrisy and generally 'bad history' for me to want to align myself with something like that. Doing so would just be so hugely misleading in explaining to anyone what I'm about. I think there's plenty of people who are 'spiritual' or enlightened without necessarily being religious. Kind of like what eleKtroniK:musiK music posted earlier;

I don't buy the religion thing ~ religion is just a bastardisation of a journey towards true enlightenment (for me). I mean who decided it become so formulaic...y'know...

[Morning Son]

For earth/humanity ,God is an alien,or rather an advanced species with the powers of a god in relation to humanities primative level of advancement.

evolution never stops,especially when you determine your own evolution ie genetic engeneering and tecnological-biological melding.

whether there is a super advanced creator being i dont know yet,however such a level of advancement is inevitable if one survives long enough.given that this dimension is not the only one and it has been around for 14 billion years you can bet your bottom dollar a god like being exists here/will exist or will/ has/does visit here from its dimension.

by our dimension i mean all that was created by our big bang.(really poor name for such a spectacular event dontchya fink!?)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8tZIaapf2gU

You know what i am.

[andrewstevens]

Oh yeah, what was the name of that Spiritualized song again? 'No God Only Religion.'

[Stuart X.Hunter]

Kind of like what eleKtroniK:musiK music posted earlier;

I don't buy the religion thing ~ religion is just a bastardisation of a journey towards true enlightenment (for me). I mean who decided it become so formulaic...y'know...

I'd like to retract that utterance. Who am I to say one persons journey is more or less than anothers. How they come to begining there journey and how they enrich there journey along the way is neither here nor there. It doesn't really matter how we come to hear His word as long as we hear it.

The thread was started in the context of debate as to JP/SPZ spirituality/Christianity. Like Sunny sais; it's all pure speculation or investigation to probably produce an indefinitive answer more in our own mould, than in his/theirs.

I have not found such an interview where JP states his non-belief in God. I doubt it will exist (no slant meant on whoever said they thought it existed). However on the way I discovered a recurring reference to lyrics/words being written from a universal perspective in Pierce' work. He has stated this in at least 3 interviews I have come across. I wish I'd bookarked and noted the dates of the interviews as I have a feeling they were conducted around about LAGWAFIS. I find this quite odd. I mean his songs do not sound like statistical outpourings, do they? Perhaps I take it too literally. Perhaps the words "smoke-screen" spring to mind. Regardless, it is quite an enviable trait to forsake ones own feelings in order to convey those of the masses. However as we are not entirely different from each other in basic form (perhaps in all form) he also manages to express his own feelings. Initially I felt quite cold at hearing of this method of writing but with further thought it would appear to me that only someone with open-mind, open heart and attentivness could approach such a task that produces the results he has. Think about it. We have all been moved in many ways by his/there music, haven't we? It's quite something really; if it were true that he writes for all.

Something possibly occurred to me this morning when listening to Perfect Prescription (wrong thread!!!) that Walkin' with Jesus is in absolute contravention to His message, however I'm sure most of us have felt at some point like the charachter who is confessing. The next song is entitled Ode to Street Hassle (what, you knew that!!!) but it is only an ode in tune to my ears and is more the true heeding of His message. In short, it comes across to me as an answer to the questions (even though no questions are directly asked of Jesus) by the confessor. Perhaps I'm now falling foul of my earlier "means to an end" statement. Thats the Glorious Mystery though.

If you've read, thank you for taking the time.

[ryansocash]

I saw an interview with jason and he said he does not believe in god, he uses tones of religion in his music because he can't find words which are more serious otherwise. Buy this dvd http://www.amazon.com/Spiritualized-Ele ... 334&sr=1-1 if you want to hear him talk about it in some detail.

[Stuart X.Hunter]

I saw an interview with jason and he said he does not believe in god, he uses tones of religion in his music because he can't find words which are more serious otherwise. Buy this dvd http://www.amazon.com/Spiritualized-Ele ... 334&sr=1-1 if you want to hear him talk about it in some detail.

Interesting. I have that 2-part cd single lying in work. I'll pick it up later today...even just for the live version of Take Your Time, again.

Thank you Ryan. I'll look forward to listening to that interview, however it may just all be part of His plan.

[The Other Jason]

eleKtroniK:musiK wrote
I have not found such an interview where JP states his non-belief in God. I doubt it will exist (no slant meant on whoever said they thought it existed).

If you read this interview Jason is asked if he is religious....read on!!

http://www.brella.org/sandpebbles/Spiritualized.html

I love the line ‘I don’t really believe but if God stepped out of a London taxi cab tomorrow I’d sure as hell get down on my knees...’

Jason

[Stuart X.Hunter]

If you read this interview Jason is asked if he is religious....read on!!

http://www.brella.org/sandpebbles/Spiritualized.html

I love the line ‘I don’t really believe but if God stepped out of a London taxi cab tomorrow I’d sure as hell get down on my knees...’

Jason

And?
Religion & God are two different things, however one and the same. He's just showing traits of every other person who Jesus thirsts for. Seemingly needing to see the physical God before submitting to His love. Or in other words; requiring an advance of Gods love before offering his own.
He says he loves the language of "it" and no wonder as truly it is what his soul desires. Hopefully he has stopped and asked himself a simple question; "why do I truly love the language?" It is probably because somewhere within he understands and seeks authentic happiness and knows that this can be found in the comforting language he uses in song. Praying in the way which the Spirit moves us, perhaps? Furthermore, notice his dithering pause before he sais or quotes "believe in God". He places the words "I dont really" in there as many of us do. "I don't really believe in God...but".
I'm quite certain that JP is a learned and studious man and in the physical world viewed with a cold-eye perhaps he is just evaluating things. Don't be fooled by the interviewer' assumptions; that from the very literal interpretations of JP responses, a non-belief is evident. In-fact look a little closer and again JP recoils from this claim by saying the lines "It was my first introduction into a kind of language that really made sense to me". I'm sure he understands why it is the language of gospel and blues and of course "it always made sense".
Bit of a "on the back foot" opening question anyway, dont you think?
"Are you a religous person?"
That's as much like saying; when was the last time you went to Church or prayed or offered good deeds or intentions to those in need or confessed your sins and failings as it is the literal question about belief in God. So straight away an element of shame (to some extent) may have been felt by JP as perhaps he hasn't done any of these things. However the interviewer quickly associates the music with that first inquiry to form the basis of the second question. Cue the dressing up of of belief.
I mean c'mon just have a look at the first response sentence to the interviewer fourth question; "I’ve reclaimed that as well. I think ‘Amazing Grace’ means a lot to a lot of people whether they know it or not. Obviously it’s like ecstasy – it’s a state you want to be in". He aint talking about MDMA here rather Divine Grace. "Amazing Grace is where you want to be...". Why reclaim that song for the people? My own assumption would be that he has reclaimed that hymn out of Church for himself as well as everyone. This isn't a selfish act by any means but does add weight to the response to the very first question and the possible shame felt from not seeking out God in His house.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it is not needed as God resides in all of us and that really is my only argument (for want of a better word).

Stuart

[SpaceLine]

From that interview:

What is your take on the UK’s stand on the Iraq issue?
We gave a track ‘Hold On’ recently to the ‘War Child’ charity to raise money for the victims of the people we’re bombing which I thought was kind of absurd. But then when I got given the record I kind of thought there should be a ‘War Child’ child for victims of the record.

[The Other Jason]

And?

And What???

[Stuart X.Hunter]

And?

And What???

Apologies, The Other Jason. I thought the interview that you provided was in attempt to back-up JP stating his non-belief in God. Thats what I thought you were getting at. Unfortunately my own failings are evident in suspicion and cyniscism; sorry for the derogatory tone. Also thank you for sharing that interview.

If on the other hand it was in response to what I'd written upon reading the interview and my thoughts, well...."_________"

[The Other Jason]

[quote="eleKtroniK:musiK]



Apologies, The Other Jason. I thought the interview that you provided was in attempt to back-up JP stating his non-belief in God. Thats what I thought you were getting at. Unfortunately my own failings are evident in suspicion and cyniscism; sorry for the derogatory tone. Also thank you for sharing that interview.

If on the other hand it was in response to what I'd written upon reading the interview and my thoughts, well...."_________"[quote][/quote]



eleKtroniK:musiK, I couldnt understand why you would write "And?" in response to me adding an interview to this interesting thread you got going here, didnt come across to well man! I know it probably isnt exactly going down the the same path as this but it thought it might interest people who were reading along.

Peace N Love

J

[Stuart X.Hunter]

Apologies, The Other Jason. I thought the interview that you provided was in attempt to back-up JP stating his non-belief in God. Thats what I thought you were getting at. Unfortunately my own failings are evident in suspicion and cyniscism; sorry for the derogatory tone. Also thank you for sharing that interview.

If on the other hand it was in response to what I'd written upon reading the interview and my thoughts, well...."_________"

eleKtroniK:musiK, I couldnt understand why you would write "And?" in response to me adding an interview to this interesting thread you got going here, didnt come across to well man! I know it probably isnt exactly going down the the same path as this but it thought it might interest people who were reading along.

Peace N Love

J

I took pleasure from reading the interview you provided as it is one I haven't come across before and it is a very beneficial addition to this thread and absolutely in keeping with the path it's on.
How and what do you feel about the Biblical references in Spiritualized/JP' work?