battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
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battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
so after a valentine gig i feel compelled to write this, 40 mins of white noise that went fucking no where, to me it demonstates a lack of material or talent, i dont know, dont get me wrong, i love white noise live, but for me at least when cop shoot cop is done live theres a lot of texture in there, saxs coming in and out, keys, wahs etc, valentine was just.....nothing, loudness, what do you think ?
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I never worked Cop Shoot Cop out - always seemed like a waste of 15 minutes of the set.
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Can I take both please?
They're entirely different creatures really for me.
MBV is pointless, leads to nothing, very little textural change. I love it for it's audacity, is simultaneous smoothness and static, it's uncompromising loud arrogant fuck you disposition. Makes me wave a fist in the air saying "Fuck yeah".
Cop shoot cop is a bridge with purpose (both from tune and back in to tune) full of textural change, very little actual drone - more freakout. I love it because it's dischordant, wild, untameable. It mirrors being lost in a nightmare rather than a snowstorm. It unnerves me and hurts slightly. But then the bass crawls through and you know you're safe again, back in the confines of melody and structure. It mirrors loss and redemption and as such fits perfectly in the album. The longer the wig* out, the longer you are lost and the more meaningful and beautiful the redemption.
YMMR is standing at the front of a crowd yelling "come on then" to everyone who ever though music was geeky and indy was for kids. Everyone who ever thought you were wrong.
Cop shoot cop is passively being thrown about on the waves of a storm until you slowly begin to feel the sand beneath your feet.
Two very different creatures, like trying to compare a mature Camembert with Lord of the rings.
If i HAD to choose, it would be . . . . YMMR . . . . or CSC . . . .
*page refreshed . . .
They're entirely different creatures really for me.
MBV is pointless, leads to nothing, very little textural change. I love it for it's audacity, is simultaneous smoothness and static, it's uncompromising loud arrogant fuck you disposition. Makes me wave a fist in the air saying "Fuck yeah".
Cop shoot cop is a bridge with purpose (both from tune and back in to tune) full of textural change, very little actual drone - more freakout. I love it because it's dischordant, wild, untameable. It mirrors being lost in a nightmare rather than a snowstorm. It unnerves me and hurts slightly. But then the bass crawls through and you know you're safe again, back in the confines of melody and structure. It mirrors loss and redemption and as such fits perfectly in the album. The longer the wig* out, the longer you are lost and the more meaningful and beautiful the redemption.
YMMR is standing at the front of a crowd yelling "come on then" to everyone who ever though music was geeky and indy was for kids. Everyone who ever thought you were wrong.
Cop shoot cop is passively being thrown about on the waves of a storm until you slowly begin to feel the sand beneath your feet.
Two very different creatures, like trying to compare a mature Camembert with Lord of the rings.
If i HAD to choose, it would be . . . . YMMR . . . . or CSC . . . .
*page refreshed . . .
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
runcible wrote:I never worked Cop Shoot Cop out - always seemed like a waste of 15 minutes of the set.
you're a bastard. someday you'll realize the brilliance of it all. it's gonna (obviously) take some time!
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Manchester on Sunday was fantastic (Pete did a great set to open btw), I'd seen them on the 92 tour so knew what to expect, the first time I didn't know if the 'holocaust' was heaven or hell. This time I found myself actually enjoying it. My mate was a MBV first timer and I deliberately didn't warn him, he simply turned to me 20 minutes in and mouthed "you bastard". I did get the feeling that some of the people there had come purely as some rite of passage or something rather than because they liked the band. On the positive, you can pretty much guarantee your evening wont be ruined by people talking behind you. Coming back to the comparison to Cop Shoot Cop, that always struck me as purely a jazz thing, as ebbsandflows says two very different creatures. By strange coincidence we were listening to Ladies and Gents on the way up in the car and when the noise section came on my mate said 'I wish they had cut this crap bit out'.is wrote:I haven't seen the Valentines since... oooh, 1991?
Anyway - the thing about 'the Holocaust' was its insidious brutality. It crept up, unawares, until before you realised you were way out of your depth, out of sight of the beginning, no end in sight. That, and that it had an absolutely physical effect on the listener.
No, it's Cop Shoot Cop which is the 'mere' freakout - ITs 'trick' is the instantaneous switch into the next song.
Having said that, now the Vals are back, and everybody's WAITING for the last 20 minutes of Realise... means that it's probably lost the element of surprise (and with it much of the point) somewhat.
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Beautifulebbsandflows wrote:Can I take both please?
They're entirely different creatures really for me.
MBV is pointless, leads to nothing, very little textural change. I love it for it's audacity, is simultaneous smoothness and static, it's uncompromising loud arrogant fuck you disposition. Makes me wave a fist in the air saying "Fuck yeah".
Cop shoot cop is a bridge with purpose (both from tune and back in to tune) full of textural change, very little actual drone - more freakout. I love it because it's dischordant, wild, untameable. It mirrors being lost in a nightmare rather than a snowstorm. It unnerves me and hurts slightly. But then the bass crawls through and you know you're safe again, back in the confines of melody and structure. It mirrors loss and redemption and as such fits perfectly in the album. The longer the wig* out, the longer you are lost and the more meaningful and beautiful the redemption.
YMMR is standing at the front of a crowd yelling "come on then" to everyone who ever though music was geeky and indy was for kids. Everyone who ever thought you were wrong.
Cop shoot cop is passively being thrown about on the waves of a storm until you slowly begin to feel the sand beneath your feet.
Two very different creatures, like trying to compare a mature Camembert with Lord of the rings.
If i HAD to choose, it would be . . . . YMMR . . . . or CSC . . . .
*page refreshed . . .
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
11 years and counting. It was the moment to go the bar on that tour. Sure, it's noise but it doesn't go anywhere. YMMR has more effect on me.supershonn wrote:runcible wrote:I never worked Cop Shoot Cop out - always seemed like a waste of 15 minutes of the set.
you're a bastard. someday you'll realize the brilliance of it all. it's gonna (obviously) take some time!
To be honest I never liked the moment Spacemen 3 used to twang and thump everything in sight during Starship when they did it live, and I saw them do it a few times. Having said that I find the version on the Transparent Radiation 12" more interesting and that really is shredded noise, but they manage to keep the intensity up, as MBV do, but which Cop Shoot Cop (for me) certainly doesn't.
Next noise subject - Whitehouse. Or not - they're really horrible!
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Actually Kevin & co occasionally look up to see how many people left during YMMR(the first time around). Kind of debunks that shoegaze thing a bit but they are very aware of the either pleasure or pain they are inflicting on the crowd. Its kind of a game. So apparently in their advancing years years they are kind enought to hand out earplugs.
I find that hilarious.
Cop Shoot Cop was a showstopper in the tours they played it as a yet unreleased song. Mr. Runcible weas green with envy at all these tours and new songs they played over here while not touring the UK for years.
After LAGWAFIS came out it had less of an effect on me.
Yeah. Whitehouse. Noise for the sake of noise. And their political views were a turn off too.
I find that hilarious.
Cop Shoot Cop was a showstopper in the tours they played it as a yet unreleased song. Mr. Runcible weas green with envy at all these tours and new songs they played over here while not touring the UK for years.
After LAGWAFIS came out it had less of an effect on me.
Yeah. Whitehouse. Noise for the sake of noise. And their political views were a turn off too.
http://www.lilmoxie.com
Detroit, Music, Sports and Other Stuff(including Spiritualized, Spacemen 3)
Detroit, Music, Sports and Other Stuff(including Spiritualized, Spacemen 3)
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I was at MBV at Manchester Appollo on Saturday night and that gig will go down in my gigging history as 1 of the best and most rememberable...
People with tears in their eyes - fingers in ears not knowing what had 'hit' them..fantastic..
I am converted......
People with tears in their eyes - fingers in ears not knowing what had 'hit' them..fantastic..
I am converted......
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Aw thanks nickh
I've not come accross whitehouse, will have to give them a look.
I must say also that I'm a big fan of the Atari Teenage Riot live CD from about 8 years ago. The one at Brixton which is essentially GBH condensed into music. I've only mustered up the strength to listen to it on a few occasions but it leaves me breathless each time.
I've not come accross whitehouse, will have to give them a look.
I must say also that I'm a big fan of the Atari Teenage Riot live CD from about 8 years ago. The one at Brixton which is essentially GBH condensed into music. I've only mustered up the strength to listen to it on a few occasions but it leaves me breathless each time.
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Don't bother. It's unpleasant, badly recorded and musically worthless. Anyone who names a song 'Rapemaster' is obviously not going to get my respect. Then there's the senstively titled 'I'm Comin' Up Yer Ass', or 'You Don't Have To Say Please' which has lyrics with real poetic qualities ('Get down on your knees/You don't have to say please/SUCK MY COCK'). The people responsible had a reputation for being racist, sexist and very aggressive - although this is constantly disputed. The fact that the music is absolute shite doesn't help matters.ebbsandflows wrote:
I've not come accross whitehouse, will have to give them a look.
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I remember back in the day, when MBV first started doing it, the holocaust was viewed as being almost deliberately nihilistic. I wish I could remember some of the interviews from that time, but the general feeling I got was that it was at least partially a reaction to the more sedate shoegazey crew who MBV were being lumped in with (after having been away for so long, and back then two and a half years did seem a long time). No, I haven't "experienced" it, and I'm not certain if I want to. Kinda seems like Johnny Rotten singing "no future" 30 years later, if you know what I mean.
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Hey, you’re welcome, nicely put!ebbsandflows wrote:Aw thanks nickh
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
They started the set with Cop Shoot Cop in 1995. To put it in perspective, most of us had never seen Spiritualized, or had any idea what to expect. This was before bootlegs were widely available.
I'd have to say, when that song kicked in, and the lights all came on, and like 12 people left the room, it was pretty epic, mind shattering, rule breaking, brilliant and amazing.
I wasn't too impressed with the Ladies and Gentlemen version (a little faster?), and future live versions which tried to replicate this version, which in my opinion, was inferior to the one I saw live in 1995. That said, using Dr. John on piano was fucking brilliant, and the album version will always be a classic.
I'd have to say, when that song kicked in, and the lights all came on, and like 12 people left the room, it was pretty epic, mind shattering, rule breaking, brilliant and amazing.
I wasn't too impressed with the Ladies and Gentlemen version (a little faster?), and future live versions which tried to replicate this version, which in my opinion, was inferior to the one I saw live in 1995. That said, using Dr. John on piano was fucking brilliant, and the album version will always be a classic.
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I think that Whitehouse are musically shit as well but surely they exist to confront and challenge. Many of their lyrics are seriously offensive to any sane human being. To use this arguement would be to write off Throbbing Gristle who used equally challenging messages but are hardly 'Wreckers of Civilisation'. To be run out the country by a Tory MP due to tabloid hype just seems sad. I am sure many of us own Joy Division records but the name and early imagery could be viewed either as naive or simply offensive. Many posts on this board list GnR but 'One in a million' is racist shit and is a complete cop out by statements that it was written deliberatley from a perspective not associated by the band. Again we have all had a good laugh at the Butthole Surfers early gigs with naked dancers and sexual films but is this any less sexist or misoygnist? There are countless other examples and again i state i hate what Whitehouse have sung about but are they really any less offensive?Don't bother. It's unpleasant,
Let's just write off Whitehouse as shit and musically abhorrent. Would be terrifying if they were good and we would all need to try harder why we hate them.
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Ok lets continue to scare ourselves and look at our record collections(allegedly):
Bowie - Nazi salute?
Reed - Walk on the wild side.......
Bobby G - 'Make Israel History'....
Lemmy - Nazi memorobila
Eldritch - obliterating France on album cover
GnR - 'rape' cover
Thank god we are on this forum but watch our record collections and the influences of the people we love dwindle...
Scary huh?!
Bowie - Nazi salute?
Reed - Walk on the wild side.......
Bobby G - 'Make Israel History'....
Lemmy - Nazi memorobila
Eldritch - obliterating France on album cover
GnR - 'rape' cover
Thank god we are on this forum but watch our record collections and the influences of the people we love dwindle...
Scary huh?!
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I used to be pretty tight w/the Vinyl Experience record shop crew back in the late 80's early 90's. I used to go to this Spanish bar down the road with them after work. Occasionally some of the United Dairies(People Who Cant) posse would come out with us and I used to listen to some of the shit they(Current 93, Nurse With Wound, Whitehouse, and friends) used to say and I just used to sit there with my mouth shut. What a bunch of big mouth racist assholes. But I was forwarned by the owner of shop forwarned me and I just kept my tail firmly between my legs and just laughed at how much i hated their music anyway.
And I politely declined after that. Dont need no dogma w/my beer!
you forgot:
Siousxie- Swastika
Sid- Swastika
Rolling Stones- Some Girls lyric.
oh yeah cant forget that twat Prince Harry!
And I politely declined after that. Dont need no dogma w/my beer!
you forgot:
Siousxie- Swastika
Sid- Swastika
Rolling Stones- Some Girls lyric.
oh yeah cant forget that twat Prince Harry!
http://www.lilmoxie.com
Detroit, Music, Sports and Other Stuff(including Spiritualized, Spacemen 3)
Detroit, Music, Sports and Other Stuff(including Spiritualized, Spacemen 3)
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
I don't agree with some of your post Rob.
The Buttholes naked dancer? What's up with that? I've seen bands with blokes naked too. Hawkwind did the nude dancer earlier and it was part of a huge acid freak out stage show - the Surfers simply followed that. They used horrible films but there was nothing that appeared to promote rape (Whitehouse 'Rapemaster' kind of pushes anything like that into the shade). I can't connect the sexism shown by Whitehouse to the Surfers (let's not forget there was a woman in the BS at that time).
I don't get Throbbing Gristle being genuinely racist or sexist either. Troubling, disturbed and scary - sure. They pushed the boundaries with the little girl calendar but it doesn't even get close to what Whitehouse wrote in their lyrics. They tried to worry people but I think Whitehouse went way further. Again let's not forget TG had a girl in the band.
The stuff about Joy Division is a fair point - the whole Factory imagery thing there is disturbing I'd agree.
Sticking my neck out here - I always through Guns n Roses were terrible in every possible way - particularly musically. Axl Rose is one of the biggest wankers ever to work in the music industry.
Add to your list punk's use of swastikas (and BJMs).
The Buttholes naked dancer? What's up with that? I've seen bands with blokes naked too. Hawkwind did the nude dancer earlier and it was part of a huge acid freak out stage show - the Surfers simply followed that. They used horrible films but there was nothing that appeared to promote rape (Whitehouse 'Rapemaster' kind of pushes anything like that into the shade). I can't connect the sexism shown by Whitehouse to the Surfers (let's not forget there was a woman in the BS at that time).
I don't get Throbbing Gristle being genuinely racist or sexist either. Troubling, disturbed and scary - sure. They pushed the boundaries with the little girl calendar but it doesn't even get close to what Whitehouse wrote in their lyrics. They tried to worry people but I think Whitehouse went way further. Again let's not forget TG had a girl in the band.
The stuff about Joy Division is a fair point - the whole Factory imagery thing there is disturbing I'd agree.
Sticking my neck out here - I always through Guns n Roses were terrible in every possible way - particularly musically. Axl Rose is one of the biggest wankers ever to work in the music industry.
Add to your list punk's use of swastikas (and BJMs).
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Now THAT i like.mh wrote: No, I haven't "experienced" it, and I'm not certain if I want to. Kinda seems like Johnny Rotten singing "no future" 30 years later, if you know what I mean.
As regards YMMR and Copshootcop i find both of them a bit boring and neither come close to My Father My King by Mogwai or some of Mono's noise workouts.
Nineteen...Nineteen...Six Five
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Not seriously comparing TBS or indeed TG, who i both really like and have played some of the best gigs ever, to Whitehouse but my issue is with people who defend Whitehouse as art pranksters and excuse their offensiveness. I know this is not the message within your post but in recent issues of The Wire, which remains the only great music mag around, this seems to be the defence. Whilst you try to remain true to your liberal beliefs Whitehouse are just truely horrible and they deserve no exposure in any serious music discussions.
Totally concur on your opinion of Axl. Amazed all those people who seem to be waiting for CD fail to mention the early years.
Thanks
Totally concur on your opinion of Axl. Amazed all those people who seem to be waiting for CD fail to mention the early years.
Thanks
Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
Agreed. Since this thread started I did a search on Whitehouse and see they are still very much in action. Their forum is full of praise for them and they were listed in the 100 most influential bands ever in some mag. Jesus Christ - I bet that list includes GG Allin too! At least GG had a sort of morbid fascination and the guy knew and admitted he was deranged! But WH are plain nasty and the music really awful.SpacemanRob wrote:Not seriously comparing TBS or indeed TG, who i both really like and have played some of the best gigs ever, to Whitehouse but my issue is with people who defend Whitehouse as art pranksters and excuse their offensiveness. I know this is not the message within your post but in recent issues of The Wire, which remains the only great music mag around, this seems to be the defence. Whilst you try to remain true to your liberal beliefs Whitehouse are just truely horrible and they deserve no exposure in any serious music discussions.
I'm no fan of Throbbing Gristle but a couple of tracks are quite good - Hamburger Lady is very worrying and another called (possibly) Walls of Sound (now that's seriously intense noise!). Most of their stuff is pretty unpleasant but they're certainly of miles more interest than WH.
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
probably will have to travel back in time and stand in the front row and be in his best mood.. those were the daayssupershonn wrote:runcible wrote:I never worked Cop Shoot Cop out - always seemed like a waste of 15 minutes of the set.
you're a bastard. someday you'll realize the brilliance of it all. it's gonna (obviously) take some time!
..but i must say i prefer the noise they made in 93 - i think it was shinealight and it came back during other songs too and that´s when they became my favourite contemporary band and perhaps why i´m here 15 years later.
"the greatest example of self-violation in the history of art"
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Re: battle of the white noise - you made me realise vs cop shoot
[quote="ebbsandflows"]Can I take both please?
MBV is pointless, leads to nothing, very little textural change. I love it for it's audacity, is simultaneous smoothness and static, it's uncompromising loud arrogant fuck you disposition. Makes me wave a fist in the air saying "Fuck yeah".
strange, i didn't see anyone waving their fist in the air like they just don't care
since we've gone onto other bands like throbbing gristle and the buttholes (who by the way, have paul leary playing with em on the tour) i thought someone might have brought up the swans, who digs " greed " or has had the experience of seeing those fuckers live ? that must have been an interesting "experience"
MBV is pointless, leads to nothing, very little textural change. I love it for it's audacity, is simultaneous smoothness and static, it's uncompromising loud arrogant fuck you disposition. Makes me wave a fist in the air saying "Fuck yeah".
strange, i didn't see anyone waving their fist in the air like they just don't care
since we've gone onto other bands like throbbing gristle and the buttholes (who by the way, have paul leary playing with em on the tour) i thought someone might have brought up the swans, who digs " greed " or has had the experience of seeing those fuckers live ? that must have been an interesting "experience"