Chinese Democracy

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toomilk
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Chinese Democracy

Post by toomilk »

http://www.myspace.com/gunsnroses


Full album streaming on myspace. It's pretty, pretty bad.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by alan_cohaul »

Izzy was the behind the scenes taste guy--he added alot of the bluesier and melodic elements, and was super underrated in the G n' R thing. Both G n' R and Velvet Revolver have had alot of difficulties with the nuances and more melodic stuff......there's glimpses of it, but Izzy is sorely missing in both those projects.

The drum sound on the title track is terrible. You can tell that they put alot of effort into it, and I wouldn't say that what i've heard, musically, is bad, but it's not terribly great, either.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by tied up »

terrible. imho g 'n r + the verve have shot a huge fucking hole in their respective boats this year. there's fuck all on either album that i will listen to ever again if i can help it.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

worth it.
gonna burn brightly
for a while
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by BzaInSpace »

Whenever something gets such bad write-ups i'm inclined to really want to hear it myself...and I do!

See The Second Coming and a million other albums slated at time of release...
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by TheWarmth »

I'm curious about Chinese Democracy, but certainly won't go out and buy it.

FWIW, I still think Second Coming is badass. Sure it's indulgent, but not in the way Be Here Now
is.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by angelsighs »

The initial reviews actually aren't too bad.

http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists ... edemocracy

I'll be buying this out of morbid curiosity. If it's tragically bad I'll have a comedy album to put on when i fancy a giggle, if it rocks I'll have a nice new 21st century GnR album to enjoy. I can't lose. :D

I also think Second Coming is brilliant. I maybe even listen to it more than the first album. Its the darker punchier and rockier other side of the coin to the shiny pop of the first album. Musically it's awesome, and not just Squire's guitars either- the rhythm section is fantastic. It's also more varied.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by scratch »

crap.. but better than velvet revolver or snakepit who just sound like that generic rocker playing in the guitar store.

parts of second coming was fresh and brilliant on first listen.. the more generic riffs on that album had a more original setting than what one could expect from any former gnr.. not a fair comparison imo
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by angelsighs »

scratch wrote: not a fair comparison imo
yep fair point, I guess the comparison between the two is more that they are both long awaited and considered rather self-indulgent rather than any straight musical comparison. As a side note though did you know that slash offered his services to the roses when Squire left? FACT.

Anyway i havent heard any of ..democracy yet but I will say that the sleeve is awful. Axl spends however many years making sure the music is just right then the cover is some shabby image that looks like it was grabbed from google images??
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by feetsies »

everyone who posted in this thread should post samples of their art. I'm curious to see how fabulous it must be considering how harsh you all are. I don't see it being as terrible as you all claim it is. If you dislike axl, think he's batshit crazy, and think that he took too long to release something that quite frankly I'm shocked is released, then by all means, take shots at that. But give me a break already.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by TheWarmth »

I'm no Buckethead, but I'd be happy to put one of the new Warmth tracks up against anything off of Chinese Democracy:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7067092
Last edited by TheWarmth on Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dselevan2
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

Yeah, um, I think my Edward Boggles throw-aways are going to be better than anything off Chinese Democracy. I can post the worst tracks I ever recorded. Plus he spends about 5 million more per track. I could get that drum sound out of a $50 Nanoverb.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by flamingrev »

"everyone who posted in this thread should post samples of their art. I'm curious to see how fabulous it must be considering how harsh you all are."

Oh, I love this argument. Let's rephrase it:

Don't criticize your elected officials unless you've been actively engaged in politics above the level of voting. I'm curious to see what awesome legislation you have written.

You don't have to be an artist to have a valid opinion about art. And artists often have a very dubious understanding of their own creations. I've heard enough of Chinese Democracy to know that it is a messy, over,over,over overproduced pile of garbage. My only real complaint is that it wasn't as bad as I was hoping.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

angelsighs wrote:[
Anyway i havent heard any of ..democracy yet but I will say that the sleeve is awful. Axl spends however many years making sure the music is just right then the cover is some shabby image that looks like it was grabbed from google images??
what?!
the album cover is fantastic! i imagine you'd have been one of those folk who complained about the beggars banquet cover :P

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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by flamingrev »

I do like the cover. I'll give it that.
feetsies
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by feetsies »

flamingrev wrote:"everyone who posted in this thread should post samples of their art. I'm curious to see how fabulous it must be considering how harsh you all are."

Oh, I love this argument. Let's rephrase it:

Don't criticize your elected officials unless you've been actively engaged in politics above the level of voting. I'm curious to see what awesome legislation you have written.

You don't have to be an artist to have a valid opinion about art. And artists often have a very dubious understanding of their own creations. I've heard enough of Chinese Democracy to know that it is a messy, over,over,over overproduced pile of garbage. My only real complaint is that it wasn't as bad as I was hoping.
nah, you misinterpret. I just don't see it as being as bad as you think it is. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and it's a lemming fest. It'd be nice to hear what people with real opinions have to say about it. lol
I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

it does need a tad more izzy and slash n' duff truth be told. there's a lack of swagger or sleazy, sexy dancey stuff. i mean the only real light relief comes in Better, Streets of Dream (awful, awful song title) and IRS (at a stretch). the one-two of better/the blues is a bit of a waste, maybe woulda been better served spread out. a minor complaint - a clearer remedy would be to scrap Scrapped & Sorry.

but more to the point, Slash. nobody still gets Axl quite like slash does - nobody loves axl as much as slash does which is perhaps the reason. not even axl loves himself that much, and he really loves himself. i mean... estranged & sweet child are just slash playin' axls blues and making the guitar fly.
BUT this albums guitars are truly monumental. absolutely a benchmark hardrock album on the merits of the guitars alone: axls honed (and honed and honed... and honed) the shredders and the crunchers into something wholly worthy of Guns N' fucking Roses and the heritage of the gods of rock. i mean, that second solo in the blues must nearly caused me an accident not unlike the one predicted in the previous thread.

now obviously there are serious misgivings, but at the minute i'm too happy to care. it rocks enough for now and that's just ok by me. oh how it rocks. it's just so silly, it's actually one of the few true rock opera's - and that is an accusation i aim soley at the album not the whole shenanigans around it. obviously the storyline outside the actual content can be termed the same, and used and is used to augment the story/ies in the music but the point is the madness contained in the CD is... mad enough to speak for itself, if you know what i mean? probably not.

one thing though, every time i come away from the album i find myself singing along in my head to the song i just left. he's not that much of a fool axl that he lost sight of the tunes in all this time.
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toomilk
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by toomilk »

I heard something about the Chinese government being upset and highlighting this an example of America asserting it's "values" (eg democracy) on the rest of the world.

My conspiracy theory: Chinese Democracy was funded by the US government.

(I kid: no one would ever use Axl for political purposes. That's like making Sarah Palin your running mate. D'oh!)
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by warmgun. »

I haven't heard a single note, but until I do... two words - corn rows...

I mean who can take that seriously? :P He looks like a 12 year old girl who just got back from a family vacation in the Caribbean.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by supershonn »

warmgun. wrote:I haven't heard a single note, but until I do... two words - corn rows...

I mean who can take that seriously? :P He looks like a 12 year old girl who just got back from a family vacation in the Caribbean.

haha! i really can't believe there is actually a thread to discuss the merits of gunsnroses.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by alan_cohaul »

Trying to be objective as a G n' R fan, I think that Axl's robbed himself of the perspective that the music may have once had. In other words, he's waited so long that the songs don't have any context.....from anything other than that it bears the G n' R name. There's nothing to compare it to, other than their very brief run of albums in the late 80's and early 90's. I mean, trends and bands come and go even two years later, and I guess that it doesn't seem like a continuation as much as it seems like a totally different band, in that you wonder why they even put it out or why they even bothered. Not that it doesn't have some merit for fans and the ultra curious, but that's my main gripe with it. He should have just named it "The Axl Rose Project" and wiped the slate clean.

In fairness, I don't think that any band can justify putting an album out 17 years later. Look at the Stooges' "The Weirdness", last year. I wanted to love it, but it was just a trainwreck. I've determined that 90 percent of the time, I don't even care about new music from reformed bands. The Rocket From The Tombs "Rocket Redux" was very underwhelming, too.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Horrorflick »

No shit. They had like, 1.5 decent albums. It was a nice break from what we were hearing at the time, but it sure doesn't fall anywhere near say, "Beethoven's 9th symphony" territory. That cocaine sure is one hell of a drug, Axl done missed himself the boat. Let's not try making a lifeboat into the Titanic...
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by rameses »

TheWarmth wrote:I'm no Buckethead, but I'd be happy to put one of the new Warmth tracks up against anything off of Chinese Democracy:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7067092

I have to say I'm more interested in new Warmth tracks than GnR. :mrgreen:
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

alan_cohaul wrote:Trying to be objective as a G n' R fan, I think that Axl's robbed himself of the perspective that the music may have once had. In other words, he's waited so long that the songs don't have any context.....from anything other than that it bears the G n' R name. There's nothing to compare it to, other than their very brief run of albums in the late 80's and early 90's. I mean, trends and bands come and go even two years later, and I guess that it doesn't seem like a continuation as much as it seems like a totally different band, in that you wonder why they even put it out...
i can't subscribe to this at all, in fact i'd take the opposite view and say one of the most detrimental aspects of the record is the sheer debt it owes to the past - thats including the previous gnr albums.

axl's vision is most definitely set within the classic rock canon (and a little outside it - he's a confessed WASP & RATT fan) and this is him staking his place.
at various stages it reads more like history of rock n' roll (albeit a short one that starts somewhere around 1969. and guns and axl have always been like this: the very fact that Sweet Child O' Mine was found on an album featuring the likes of out ta get me, anything goes and nightrain; rocket queen saw another stretching of the formula, a distinct arrangement.
more than that the illusions foretold CD: Coma was always a massive (literally) signpost for axl's desire, likewise estranged and november rain. and lest we forget axl was actually pushing for november rain to appear on appetite. but even YCBM now seems like a distant echo for the wiry and eventually firey guitar pyrotechnics of the title track and the sheer volume of guitars.

but the fact that axl has been living with these songs for so long are the simplest evidence of their lineage. he carries pretty much the exact same influences as he always has done (elton john & queen are all over this record, like they've been all over most). the one thing that is lacking though definitely is the stones. the album is so muscular and epic that it's kinda steamrollered the intimacy and swing of the stones: for want of a better word there is a distinct lack of sexiness. but everything else that made up gnr i think is present and correct, and maybe a little too predictable: most diversions seem only fleeting before we're into pummelling rockfests, the formula only stretches briefly before blasting back in with steriod enhanced version of what went before.

definitely on my initial listen it sounded like incredibly faithful to those canonised bands axl worshipped as a kid. it's almost like he was living a twisted elton john dream: that he had so much power and time to spend on something like the street of dreams, any egotistical rock n' roll maniac from the heyday of classic rock would have surely loved to have been able to do what axl has done for the past 15 years, scuplt completely music that sounds like everything you've ever wanted it to sound like. and because of his adherance to those influences it remains true to gnr and where gnr came from.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by squirrel »

Axl is a moron and is nothing without Izzy and Slash, which it's apparent he knows based on how long it took him to let this one go. Mostly Izzy. Once Izzy and Adler were gone, so was the chemistry. Anybody who considers this record Guns n' Roses is sadly mistaken. This is the Axl Rose Band. No interest whatsoever in hearing it.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Shaun »

jack white wrote:it remains true to gnr and where gnr came from.
But the question is......Will the home f*** parasite have Chinese Demoracy on his christmas wishlist this year ??
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

ha! i've never really appreciated 'home f***' as a put down until right now. funny! cheers!
there's nothin as good as slash on that performance on CD.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by feetsies »

the new ac/dc slays tho, right?
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Multi »

.
Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Shaun »

jack white wrote:there's nothin as good as slash on that performance on CD.
jack white, do you have a copy of that gig CD?? Yes please :D
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

I just listened to about 5 seconds and it was so fucking terrible that I had to turn it off. It sounded like a 13 year old who wanted to sound like a '90s hardcore musician, but who was trying it on one of those line 6 amps with the built in effects, trying to rock out at Guitar Center. Horrible, horrible, horrible record. Elton John? Queen? I don't even like those bands but this
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by alan_cohaul »

Agreed Jack White on most of what you've said....the demos for "November Rain" date back to even before "Appetite..."....was it 1986? Here's my take--Axl was the pomp rock ballad guy, Izzy was the Stonesy swagger guy that could rock heavier, and Slash was the loud and heavy guy. I think that they all met in the middle at times and I guess that Axl was liking that middle ground less and less as the years went on.

From what i've heard, the songs just really aren't that loose, they don't have that swagger, that strut to them. You can write less heavy songs and still have a swagger to them.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

It just seems like Guns N Roses used to be a band. They would get together and practice together, work out songs together, listen to music together. My experience is that just playing with one other person is completely transformative, it's nothing like playing alone or with hired musicians to play your songs.

Spiritualized have gotten pretty good in their latest phase, maybe due to all the time Jason and Doggen have spent travelling the world together over the past 10 years or so. For awhile I thought Spiritualized was over after Jason sacked his band, I thought it would become a Jason Pierce solo act. I'm glad that A&E isn't a Chinese Democracy.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by simonkeeping »

TheWarmth wrote:I'm no Buckethead, but I'd be happy to put one of the new Warmth tracks up against anything off of Chinese Democracy:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7067092
Thats a fantastic tune mate! Beautiful production.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

2 words: Guitar Loops
Thank god no more Spaceman solo
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by spzretent »

I dunno. he is an artist. he can release whatever he wants. I will buy it. I may not play it. But over the years he has earned my loyalty. And they are pretty limited quantities. So...why is this in a Guns and Roses thread?
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

spzretent wrote:So...why is this in a Guns and Roses thread?
I'm comparing Axel Rose solo to Jason Pierce solo. I tried to listen to guitar loops once. Sounded pretty cracked out or something.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by flamingrev »

That's kind of like comparing Pet Sounds to Metal Machine Music.

It makes no sense and the supposed relation between the two doesn't really provide any new information.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by spzretent »

i may get lambasted for this but exactly what relevance has Axl Rose ever had outside of maybe AFD? I know people said he put the swagger back in rock and roll. And then he turned into a cartoon character.
Granted I was never a GnR fan. So this is totally out of my wheelhouse. Just my opinion.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

flamingrev wrote:That's kind of like comparing Pet Sounds to Metal Machine Music.

It makes no sense and the supposed relation between the two doesn't really provide any new information.
The first few seconds that I heard, from Chinese Democracy, sounded a lot like Guitar Loops, have you heard it?
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

i actually don't know what Im talking about. GNR were good when i was like 10.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by laid back in the sun »

how can anyone judge an entire album from the first five seconds? :? not that im a fan myself tho!!!!
hey man theres a hole in my nose where all the money goes
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by flamingrev »

"The first few seconds that I heard, from Chinese Democracy, sounded a lot like Guitar Loops, have you heard it?"

I stole it from the interweb and listened to most of the songs, but not all the way through. Honestly, if you forced me to sit in a closet and listen to either Chinese Democracy or Guitar Loops for a month, I would have a very hard time choosing. But it's still a stretch to compare the two, based solely on one being an Axl solo thing and one being Jason solo.

Really, Spiritualized has more in common with the GnR dynamic than Jason solo does. One guy that gets others to play what he wants and he sheds the musicians when they get uppity or he needs something new.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

Spaceman is the Axl Rose of Spacerock.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by flamingrev »

To clarify, I stole and briefly listened to Chinese Democracy.

I own and have listened to Guitar Loops three times.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by spzretent »

dselevan2 wrote:Spaceman is the Axl Rose of Spacerock.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

spzretent wrote:
dselevan2 wrote:Spaceman is the Axl Rose of Spacerock.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Ok you are shocked not neutral?
I just said it for the shock value anyway, very Axel rose.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

"Throughout Chinese Democracy, the most compelling question is never, "What was Axl doing here?" but "What did Axl think he was doing here?" The tune "If The World" sounds like it should be the theme to a Roger Moore-era James Bond movie, all the way down to the title. On "Scraped," there's a vocal bridge that sounds strikingly similar to a vocal bridge from the 1990 Extreme song "Get The Funk Out." On the aforementioned "Sorry," Rose suddenly sings an otherwise innocuous line ("But I don't want to do it") in some bizarre, quasi-Transylvanian accent, and I cannot begin to speculate as to why. I mean, one has to assume Axl thought about all of these individual choices a minimum of a thousand times over the past 15 years. Somewhere in Los Angles, there's gotta be 400 hours of DAT tape with nothing on it except multiple versions of the "Sorry" vocal. So why is this the one we finally hear? What finally made him decide, "You know, I've weighed all my options and all their potential consequences, and I'm going with the Mexican vampire accent. This is the vision I will embrace. But only on that one line! The rest of it will just be sung like a non-dead human." Often, I don't even care if his choices work or if they fail. I just want to know what Rose hoped they would do. "
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by toomilk »

Did anyone get their free Dr Pepper?
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by angelsighs »

Simon Reynolds compares CD n Kanye

http://www.salon.com/ent/music/review/2 ... kanye_gnr/

"Guns N' Roses was always a phallic band -- Sunset Strip sex pistols from the name down to the "feel my serpentine" imagery of "Welcome to the Jungle." Doors hagiographer Danny Sugerman even compared Rose to the young Jim "Death and my cock are the world" Morrison. There's a gross tumescence to the sound of "Chinese Democracy" redolent of the 4-hour erections induced by Viagra: engorged but devoid of desire, a meaningless show of strength."
:D
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by spzretent »

dselevan2 wrote:
spzretent wrote:
dselevan2 wrote:Spaceman is the Axl Rose of Spacerock
:shock: Ok you are shocked not neutral?
I just said it for the shock value anyway, very Axel rose.
I thought it was a shocking statement. More Muscles than Axl though.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

So has anyone actually listened to this in its entirety? I tried to go to the myspace page last night and it was down for maintenance - thank god.
feetsies
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by feetsies »

thank god? then why even try to listen? you've obviously already made up your mind.

i'm not defending it, but the lack of objectivity about the actual music is pretty prominant on the interwebs. The j spaceman/axl rose statement was the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. I mean, I laff thinking about it. The sex pistols of sunset strip article was much more entertaining in comparison.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by dselevan2 »

feetsies wrote:thank god? then why even try to listen? you've obviously already made up your mind.

i'm not defending it, but the lack of objectivity about the actual music is pretty prominant on the interwebs. The j spaceman/axl rose statement was the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. I mean, I laff thinking about it. The sex pistols of sunset strip article was much more entertaining in comparison.
I'm glad I made you laugh.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Multi »

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Last edited by Multi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Horrorflick
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Horrorflick »

flamingrev wrote:"The first few seconds that I heard, from Chinese Democracy, sounded a lot like Guitar Loops, have you heard it?"

I stole it from the interweb and listened to most of the songs, but not all the way through. Honestly, if you forced me to sit in a closet and listen to either Chinese Democracy or Guitar Loops for a month, I would have a very hard time choosing. But it's still a stretch to compare the two, based solely on one being an Axl solo thing and one being Jason solo.

Really, Spiritualized has more in common with the GnR dynamic than Jason solo does. One guy that gets others to play what he wants and he sheds the musicians when they get uppity or he needs something new.
Nonsense! Jason Pierce knows how he wants things to sound and does whatever he has to in order to make that happen. Granted, the people he's chosen to play with have influenced the sound to a significant degree, but Spiritualized will always be about songs, not players. The reason nobody gives a fuck about the Flies is that it's Sean Cook trying to be Spiritualized. Any fool can stand there and play an instrument, but writing a song that actually reaches people? That's hard...
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Gruff »

Ok, thread is long since dead, but here's my tuppence worth.

I don't like it. I tried (oh, how I tried). But I just don't. I wanted to either love it or hate it. I wanted to love it becuase we've been waiting so long and I still regard previous GNR output as fantastic (yes, even illusion stuff). I wanted to hate it because of the wait, because of the lack of Slash and Izzy. But, really, in the end I bought it and... was totally unmoved. Am I missing something?

I mean, everyone says it's overblown. Where, exactly? It sounds sloppy to me. I hate the sound/tones of all the instruments. They sound so false. Maybe it's that.

Maybe it's the fact it's just another METAL album. Since when were GNR a metal band? I always thought they were ROCK. I mean, low down dirty heavy rock, but rock nonetheless.

Where are the tunes people have mentioned humming? I can't seem to find the strong chorus.

I don't like the solo's-they are thrillingly fast, yes. Fun, even. But where is the style?
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by angelsighs »

:(
Since we're all weighing in.. I don't like it either. I've given it a good try as well.

First- where are the HOOKS? Past GnR classics were tightly wound beasts where there was barely time to get bored. Even the epics like Civil War and Estranged had loads of cool twists and turns. On this album they seem to have taken so much time on piling the tracks up and up with so many overdubs and layers just to disguise the fact that underneath it the songs are actually quite banal and repetitive.

Also the best of Slashs solos were melodic and lyrical. You could hum them, and the widdly bits were a bridge to the next great section. The guys here may have the chops but the solos are mostly just little clusters of shredding and widdling. None lift the song in any satisfactory way, or hit to the heart.

Really it comes down to the fact that a lot of people have alluded to above- past GnR, even at their most dysfunctional, (or overblown with that ridiculous drum sound around the time of Illusion), were basically the sound of some great sleazy, swinging, band interplay. You could hear the give and take of a bloody good rock band. This album is just the vision of one man who doesn't have the musicality to come up with anything truly special. Everything sounds like it was recorded directly into the mixing desk, then processed to sound as digital as possible.

So, pretty disappointing. Although i still like 'Madagascar', and also quite enjoy 'There Was A Time'..
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Gruff »

Thanks, you've summed it up much better than me: hooks, a tight BAND and solo's with lyricism.

I'm just off to give it another listen...
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by jack white »

angelsighs, gruff, i'm sorry for you, not sorry for me. initially i didn't like that song because i thought it was too METAL (similarily Shackler's Revenge - ESPECIALLY when i heard it firstly outside of CD, on the videogame) but since it's become one of my FAVOURITE Gn'R tracks.
Gruff wrote: I mean, everyone says it's overblown. Where, exactly? It sounds sloppy to me. I hate the sound/tones of all the instruments. They sound so false. Maybe it's that.

Maybe it's the fact it's just another METAL album. Since when were GNR a metal band? I always thought they were ROCK. I mean, low down dirty heavy rock, but rock nonetheless.

Where are the tunes people have mentioned humming? I can't seem to find the strong chorus.
i DO think there are SERIOUS PROBLEMS PREVENTING the album being anything much like brilliance but i don't agree with any of these accusations (though i do think they are credible even complaints).
if anything SLASH was responsible for the initial 'metal-ization' of Guns - the Illusions, particularly COMA (which Slash claims he wrote nearly completely by himself) veered or had a significant dialliance with metal forms. granted on CD i do think they're more apparent, noticable and plentiful. BUT that's only because this Guns, the players in this Guns, is simply more metal. there has been a shift, but only as one would expect there to be. for me it still works because i think they've still clung to Guns n' Roses and to 'what that means' - i think Axl fought to keep the name for a reason and is smart enough not to betray it by radically altering the Guns sound and foundations. to me it still sounds like Guns N Roses albeit instead of the pistols of the gunslingers of izzy and slash, it's more of an army these days - but that's a good thing 'cause there's simply NO WAY that Guns could try and tell the sorta stories they told in 1987 and not be completely silly.
the sound and tone and playing of the guitars for me in general sticks pretty ridgely to classic rock - and again that's a good thing. i hear A LOT, maybe TOO MUCH, classic rock in the guitars - Holy Diver-era Dio, Floyd, brian may, elton john, skynrd, ZZ top, van halen etc.- even slash! the main difference is the SHEER ABUNDANCE of guitars, and of course with it being so overpopulated maybe it's going to diminish the effect. i tend to think the guitars will help lend untold longevity to the record. i think it's as wonderful an electric guitar album as i've heard in ages, certainly the finest hard rock one i since i care to remember: indeed the only two more brilliant guitar rock albums i've heard in the last 2 or 3 years are probably Holy Diver and the allman bros. for me i am on axl's wavelength when it comes to guitars, i thoroughly enjoy the sounds that he enjoys.
i dunno where it sounds sloppy - the packaging and release and general behaviour maybe. buti don't think the songs sound sloppy. they sound edited to within an inch of their life in fact (but not overproduced - i think there is a lot of technical auto-tuning that you would catch only if you're actively listening out for it, otherwise the production team have been extremely sensitive IMO). again they are maybe overpopulated, overembelished instrumentally at times (though i don't agree!) but nothing is ever wasted.

as for the tunes. well... to be honest, i'm kinda thinking it's a Blood On The Tracks of hard rock.
yea, i went there.
TWAT is obviously Idiot Wind (and god, angelsighs how does THAT solo not work in all the ways you described?! - a tune full of hooks, and what about the Sorry riff?!) BUT there is SO MUCH of APPETITE in CD! yes, there is! Prostitute is obviously a direct descendant of Rocket Queen while I.R.S. IS Nightrain. the firey sparks of the Easy, Jungle, My Michelle & Nightrain guitars are sprinkled all over the album (well not so much sprinkled as doused over). choruses to sing, stuff to sing along to is a problem. lyrically it is a problem. but damnit i am digging SORRY so fucking much (and the 1-2 with it and IRS is irresistible - i wrote-off my car before christmas because of the climax of IRS, my first and only car crash i always thought it would be Spz-related but it took Axl and fuck, IRS has a REAL G n'f' R WHIP to it, it's an INCREDIBLE song) that i'm so happy, content with not being able to sing along to much of the rest cause that chorus is so fucking nasty.


no, i mean it isn't perfect, but i certainly don't have any problems with the guitars or the structure or sound of the songs. i think given time a few may well stand alongside classic Guns material, but by the same token i could understand why they won't. but my reasons for not accepting them would be different from most of the opposition voiced in this thread. i think they actually have got almost every box ticked to qualify the record as something worthy of the Guns N Roses name, some boxes are ticked 20 or 30 times right enough. my problem is the stories being told aren't particularly great and aren't told in a particularly cool way. i mean, fair enough they aren't going to write a Nightrain but Catcher In The Rye for example has an unforgivable lyric - particularly since i absolutely ADORE that BEATLES-Y guitar raining down throughout (which i think may be Bumblefoot cause the earlier leak of that song i absolutely HATED, thought it was even worse that Oh My God and even MY WORLD! but not i love the song but for the fucking crap lyric!) axl's lyrics were best on appetite most definitely. when he had izzy and the others to bounce of, when he would seek their approval instead of writing the SILLY rubbish that comprises MOST of This I Love.

in fact, i think This I Love is MAYBE the MOST IMPORTANT song on the album because it is SO Axl: it's the song the little hick kid growing up on elton john and aerosmith always wanted to write: a big weepy piano ballad torn asunder by a big bloody guitar solo. AND IT FUCKING WORKS!
CD works cause at the end of the day it's pretty melodies played by loud guitars, and that's Guns N' Roses, man.
gonna burn brightly
for a while
Gruff
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by Gruff »

Yes, indeed.

I want to hear that- I do. Really. But, I don't. I just can't get into it.

However I am printing off your email and am going to compare directly those tracks you've mentioned...

You're right about Slash and metalisation, from what I can make out.
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Re: Chinese Democracy

Post by angelsighs »

You make a convincing case Jack, funnily enough I have been playing the album a bit more lately- I haven't written it off entirely. But it's not clicking as yet.

You are right about There Was A Time- the solo on that one does hit the spot. (I did mention it in my previous post)
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