Should Spiritualized Have Split Up After Ladies & Gentle

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:41 pm

Just wondering what people would think about this. For me the third album was so perfect that trying to match it has taken seven years of fruitless toil and ever-decreasing relevance. Where the fuck are Spiritualized in the music press nowadays? A few token references when mentioning their supposed influence on the Secret Machines or M83 in a review, and the occasional tiny, tiny news item but besides that they have fallen spectacularly from view.

Artistically, they've devolved, not in a hugely noticeable way, but I certainly don't find myself holding my breath for a Spiritualized track as unutterably strange and lovely as Ladies & Gentlemen's title track, or as ferocious as No God Only Religion. That's what the last album did to me - it felt like Spiritualized had downgraded their ambitions and were content to be swayed by fashion.

I don't like his music but it was a big statement when Paul Weller split up the Jam at their peak. Should Jason have done the same? Or do people genuinely think you can get it back once you've lost it(albeit slightly)? I hope there's an album as good as Ladies and Gentlemen somewhere in the future for Spiritualized but I don't see it happening.

In the end I think I'd probably take Rated X, Do It All Over Again, etc... over a dissolved Spiritualized but, whilst I can't stand that asinine Young/Cobain quote about it being better to burn out...etc, I still wonder if it would have been a good idea if Jason had ended it before he ran out of steam.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:55 pm

But you see, Spiritualized did split up, for all intents and purposes, after LAGWAFIS, at which point it was made increasingly clear that Spiritualized as we know it now is and always was a solo act and solo acts can't split up.

(And honestly, is the first Lupine Howl LP all that much worse than Amazing Grace? Actually, generally speaking, it's better.)

I for one am a defender of Let It Come Down - I think it's a very strong pop record and the big ballads on it work better than those on LAGWAFIS, with the exception of Cool Waves which is sublime; and as well LICD trims a lot of the fat from songs like Cop Shoot Cop. (Compare "Won't Get To Heaven", which I believe is far superior - although the slightly stilted performance by the new band on that tune is admittedly a write-off.)

On the other hand, Amazing Grace hovers somewhere between mere embarassment and disaster, and though Spiritualized can't break up it would have been nice had most of that record - save the sole good new tune, Ballad of Richie Lee - been relegated to the vaults.

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:55 pm

Obviously the topic heading on the messageboard was meant to say 'Ladies and Gentle...men' not 'Ladies and Gentle'. It wasn't a misspelt reference to Spiritualized's great 'lost' work, the wonderful Jewish concept mini-album 'Ladies and Gentiles'. Only a tenner on E-Bay I swear

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:00 pm

Spzretent and I were at Abbey Road the other week to track backing vocals for it. Pretty ace. Dig the free-jazz tune "Backstreet Knish" with accordion by Yankovic. Afterwards a delicious meal mit kreplach prepared by Kate Radelstein. (I hope Spzretent doesn't mind my outing him.)

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:17 pm

The Sprawl wrote: Where the fuck are Spiritualized in the music press nowadays? A few token references when mentioning their supposed influence on the Secret Machines or M83 in a review, and the occasional tiny, tiny news item but besides that they have fallen spectacularly from view.

That's what the last album did to me - it felt like Spiritualized had downgraded their ambitions and were content to be swayed by fashion.

.

No, to be swayed by fashion would be like giving a damn about Spiritualized column inches...who cares? The music's gonna be there whether or not the fucking NME gives a shit...give it six years and space rock will be fashionable...again.

Lack of press means no more marketing tools will be applied to future releases re. 'The Breakup Album', 'The Rehab Album', 'The Pseudo Garage Album' etc etc etc.

so NO is my answer. Besides, if there had been no music after '97 we would never have heard 'On Fire', 'Sometimes', '12 Steps', the superior version of 'Lord Can You Hear Me' ... and 'This Little Life Of Mine'.

But hell, I like 'Amazing Grace'. My world is better with that record.... maybe my worlds better than yours?

And what about the live show? THAT really is Spiritualized in its purest form, and what I took from the show I saw this year is that those fuckers are still burning... I was burned too.

This is return of the cliche isn't it... the dreaded 'They're Not As Good As They Used To Be....'

And 26$ ... I like the bit about Lupine Howl!

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:29 pm

how about you fuck off after starting this post. yeah, that sounds great. i know quite a few of us liked the last spiritualized album. and the one before that.

i feel most of you missed the point of the last album. if you play music you realize what a great concept to try and pull off. i mean seriously, who else has the balls to do something like what j did with the last album.

absolutely correct BZA, my world is better too, thanks to Amazing Grace.

xxxshonnxxx

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:32 pm

The obvious and only answer to this question is â€œno.â€ Spiritualized breaking up would basically mean Jason announcing that he is to retire from music, which I canâ€™t see happening. Heâ€™s too driven (forgive the VH-1 terminology) to give up. I firmly believe that he is capable of making music as good, if not better, than that of Ladies and Gents. Various tracks from Let It Come Down (a sadly underrated album on this board) and even Amazing Grace (Rated X, Ballad of Richie Lee) confirm that.

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:33 pm

I agree with you that Let It Come Down is a good album that only suffers in comparison with Ladies And Gentlemen. Do It All Over Again is about the most perfect pop song Jason's written. But the complacency that followed the release of Amazing Grace, the self-referential platitudes that Jason spouted in the interviews I read, the assertion that recording the album in three weeks was a good idea and the general weakness of songs like This Little Life Of Mine - all of this is far from reassuring for their future.

Solo acts can split up by the way - they can just stop making music.

I find myself less and less enthralled by the spectacularly predictable drug references (why doesn't he get a new hobby - take up knitting or something), and the inevitable new gimmick (whether it's the spontaneity of the recording sessions or the 100 musicians) that he talks about, as if stuck on a loop, in every single interview, whenever a new album comes out.

I'm disappointed, because I've never seen an artist come back and confound expectations once they've lost it. Art, music in particular, is just too ephemeral for it to happen.

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:59 pm

It was a completely hypothetical question, and it was meant to be provocative, not an invitation for people to tell me how much of a cunt I am for even asking it in the first place.

I love Spiritualized and I love certain tracks from Amazing Grace (Cheapster, Rated X, Ballad Of Richie Lee), but there are certain things that annoy me about Jason (probably only because I respect him more than any other artist I've known) and the only reason I say them is because I care about this band more than any other.

The question of whether they should have split up isn't necessarily a reflection of my views, in fact I said in my post that, if push came to shove, I'd much rather have had songs like On Fire in my record collection than not. Who wouldn't? Let It Come Down towered above everything else released in 2001 and I still play it a lot, but I can't help feeling uncertain over the next release.

The question was meant to get a reaction, to provoke debate - not to invite aggressive kneejerk reactions. Don't give me some fanboy bullshit about how I shouldn't be here because I dared to question Spiritualized. 26 Dollars has the balls to admit to disappointment in Amazing Grace so I'm not out of order in posting this.

I'm sorry that some people find this kind of introspection unacceptable, and I'm glad people liked the last album, it's just that I was a bit disappointed. I reserve the right to have an opinion.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:09 pm

don't give a shit The Sprawl!

Don't take anything to heart....

Like everything in life, 99% of this is all bullshit.

Bring it on.

Say it man, say it. That's what we are here for. Bring on the dabates... it keeps us fresh.

Rattle them chains!

Shonn's just got a filthy mouth...

I actually went to find this great quote, but can't, so will have to improvise

" ... after an artist goes through heart ache, the next album, without fail, will always be unbelievably good - every time"

NEIL YOUNG

... Or something...

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:13 pm

no it's the fact that you come here asking an idiotic quesetion. what the fuck did you expect a round of appluase and here heres. have some common sense. if they truly are your fav band (as they are mine) then you can understand why your post might recieve some flaming.

also, why is it, that when anyone comments on the faults of Amazing Grace they are applauded?

once again, to have the balls to come up with the idea behind AG is a testament that Spiritualized are here to stay.

xxxshonnxxx

p/s you can take your fan boy comments and shove them up your ass!

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:18 pm

no, my mouths not so bad compared to ORBITAl, he is on a holiday now so i thought i might take his place.

and Sprawl, if that really is your name. welcome aboard. we are all enemies here.

xxxshonnxxx

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:43 pm

a beautiful noise wrote:no it's the fact that you come here asking an idiotic quesetion. what the fuck did you expect a round of appluase and here heres. have some common sense. if they truly are your fav band (as they are mine) then you can understand why your post might recieve some flaming.

also, why is it, that when anyone comments on the faults of Amazing Grace they are applauded?

once again, to have the balls to come up with the idea behind AG is a testament that Spiritualized are here to stay.

xxxshonnxxx

p/s you can take your fan boy comments and shove them up your ass!

Jesus. Remember kids, stay in school.
If you're incapable of understanding the meaning of the word hypothetical then go find a dictionary you great pillock.

Zenchan · Post by **Zenchan** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:52 pm

On the grounds that I think Amazing Grace is better than both Pure Phase and Lazer Guided Melodies, no I don't think they should have called it a day.

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:33 pm

listen to your ears, simple as that. if you like what you hear, keep listening. if you don't, sign onto a message board and bitch about it. or turn it off and find some tunes you do like.

you know, to each his own. or different strokes for different folks...although the strokes do blow on par with radiohead

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:55 pm

sorry sprawl, i am uneducated idiot.

better idea, just go elsewhere!

xxxshonnxxx

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:49 pm

The Sprawl wrote:Don't give me some fanboy bullshit about how I shouldn't be here because I dared to question Spiritualized. 26 Dollars has the balls to admit to disappointment in Amazing Grace so I'm not out of order in posting this.

I must admit I thought your question was silly, and not merely because of the transparent fact that Spiritualized is a solo act; I thought it was silly because no group does anyone any harm by remaining together, and I don't buy that hagiographic nonsense about 'tarnishing ones legacy' with a bad record. I don't care if any band continues to produce records past their sell-by date. I can however warn that when a performer's peak is behind him, lowered expectations are called for in evaluating future product. Mythologizing Jason Pierce, and hoping he'd burnt out or checked out so as to cultivate that mythology a la that carpetbagging Cobain, is just as stupid and fanboyish as endless defences of Amazing Grace or protestations of Pierce's continued relevance.

Dismissing Amazing Grace has absolutely nothing to do with testicles. I've been taking considerable heat for more than a year based on my evaluation of that record.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:57 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:
...Amazing Grace has absolutely nothing to do with testicles.

Yes, it's a shame we weren't given the BALLS-out rock we were promised...

I'd like to hear the unedited version of 'This Little Life Of Mine'... they say its over twelve....minutes long.

SpacemanRob · Post by **SpacemanRob** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:35 am

Hey $26 i always hope someone burns out and never fades away. In the case of J Spaceman for me he is still experimenting and still excites....
Wanting to mix threads i would love to know how you can justify this statement but refuse to see how shite the recent Brian Wilson album is and surely even his biggest fan muist have hoped he 'burnt out' 50 years ago.
Sorry for re-iterating previous threads but your hypocrisy annoys.....
To this thread it is impossible to avoid peaks and troughs but what makes Spz and SP3 fairly unique is to keep changing, keep experimenting and to always being rock n roll....
Maybe Perfect Perscription is better than the Sound Of Confusion and maybe LAGWAFIS is better than Amazing Grace but each time we listen to them all they are infinately better than a lot of what else we listen to....
Rock on....

Clownbait · Post by **Clownbait** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:56 am

Zenchan wrote:On the grounds that I think Amazing Grace is better than both Pure Phase and Lazer Guided Melodies, no I don't think they should have called it a day.

no offense, but you're fucking nuts.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:04 am

SpacemanRob wrote:Hey $26 i always hope someone burns out and never fades away.

See, that's the kind of armchair pop philosophizing that strikes me as adolescent bullshit. I'd like to see ya say the same thing when you're thirty, Rob. And if you are thirty, well, you're pathetic.

Wanting to mix threads i would love to know how you can justify this statement but refuse to see how shite the recent Brian Wilson album is and surely even his biggest fan muist have hoped he 'burnt out' 50 years ago.

Nope. I wish he wouldn't endlessly re-record old songs, but I'm glad he's still around, and though most of Gettin In Over My Head is lousy, some parts are nice, ditto Imagination, and a new album from Brian is like a postcard from your best pal. He's got nothing left to say, but bless him. Furthermore he did some of his best work after he "burnt out" - Love You, &c.

Good to know your grasp of pop history is so strong that the sixties were fifty years ago.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:07 am

SpacemanRob wrote: Sorry for re-iterating previous threads but your hypocrisy annoys.....

What hypocrisy? In all our debates, my line has been the same: I'm right and you're wrong. I've never wavered. I'm still right and you're still wrong. And you still sound like you've never read a book that wasn't by Jim Morrison.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:10 am

Should Spiritualized Have Split Up After Ladies & Gentle

I think a better question is, what am I gonna do with all these rare, promo only, limited edition CDs that I've amassed over the years??

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:53 am

jb · Post by jb » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:20 am

On the whole I am glad Pierce is still making music since some of my fave tracks have come from the last two albums (Don't Just Do Something, Anything More, Richie Lee, Rated X). But this can't disguise the fact that there are just a few decent tracks from the last two compared to a whole load of great songs from previous efforts.

I don't know about anyone else but I am quite excited to see what JP will do next, he's done the huge, orchestral album then the dirty, guitar driven (and not very good) one...so what will his new stuff sound like?

After AG I really can't see him writing 12 classic somgs but I am sure the next release will have at least a couple of great tracks on it.

But please lose the over-hoarse delivery!

Starfish · Post by **Starfish** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:37 am

SpaceLine wrote:listen to your ears

Now that just don't make no sense.

Anyway should the Rolling Stones have split up after Goats Head Soup? Or maybe Tattoo You?
Bearing in mind....

twentysixdollars wrote:no group does anyone any harm by remaining together

andyblacktoo · Post by **andyblacktoo** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:28 am

spiritualized ceased to exist post ladies and gents, they became Jason and a pile of session musicians that just do what theyre told.

One of the reasons they have a reduced media profile is because Jason has chosen to leave a major record label (BMG), and go to a label with a much reduced press department (sanctuary) , because he'd been made to have his first a&r man.

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:57 am

Both Lupine Howl albums have poohed all over that last two offerings by Jason. Not saying i haven't like them (although i think Amazing Grace is an improvement on LICD), but i feel that the LH stuff is much stonger...

Wouldn't be the first time i've considered what Spiritualized could have released if Jason had allowed Sean and Co a little more input to the material and they hadn't split...

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:37 pm

SpaceLine wrote:
listen to your ears
Starfish wrote:
Now that just don't make no sense.

it makes perfect sense to me. here's an example, a video entitled "listen to your ears"
http://www.emc.cmich.edu/products/kinde ... /0033A.htm

The term is also registered with an audio company called Bazooka.
google "listen to your ears", including the quotes, and go to town.

I know it from my hobby of live taping, it's a common term used by tapers and audiophiles when others ask what equipment sounds the best. There is no correct answer, because we all hear things differently. So listen to your ears, don't listen to somebody else's opinion. I think it applies nicely to this thread, considering some people love AG and some people loathe it.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:07 pm

Laz69 wrote:Both Lupine Howl albums have poohed all over that last two offerings by Jason. Not saying i haven't like them (although i think Amazing Grace is an improvement on LICD), but i feel that the LH stuff is much stonger...

Wouldn't be the first time i've considered what Spiritualized could have released if Jason had allowed Sean and Co a little more input to the material and they hadn't split...

Ha ha ha...26$ has already used that joke.

Serious, you believe that? The last Lupine Howl album was among the worst I heard last year...harsh, but if J & The Session guys released that they would probably have their hands cut off.

And rightly so.

So much for 'The Engine Of Spiritualized'....out of fuel perhaps?

And WHERE has Will's Freelovebabies gone? Did MUSCLES cause it to CEASE TO EXIST?

Laz?

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:17 pm

BZA do not blame that on me!

WILL has a tendency to GET OUT OF THE VAN!

He had his hands FULL with alot of CHICKS and DICKS!

I imagine he will land on his FEET like a CAT.

He may be unable to deal with "DEAR KATE" but that is for ASHCROFT and JASON to deal with not him anyway.

SONIC will probably lick his wounds.

Can't be a PUSSY in this world now can ya?

Will came up with the NAME Spiritualized anyhow so JASON should just give WILL the fucking name back and fucking kill himself.

MUSCLES

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:32 pm

MUSCLES...

Are you gonna be around? Your reccomendations and opinions MATTER to me, ya hear?

When is the album coming out?

Can you tell us the lyrics for 'Dear Kate'?

Kate Winslet I assume?

And isn't Spiritualized a registered trade mark now>?

DID Will invent the name? Weird....i thought it was an actual word.

Did Will go to Bible Class with J????

Later

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:05 pm

BZA! ya scottish bastard!

i am always around even when i ain't around i read this shit sadly...

you and a few of the others usually amuse me when things are slow around CHEZ MUSCLES.

well the lyrics for KATE.

i just remember being backstage with Ashcroft in Chicago at a gig we were doing with them and outta nowhere KATE was fucking in the dressing room with us all. For all we knew she was still going out with JASON so it was rather surprising. Then right before my eyes RICHARD put his tongue in her mouth for like a MINUTE STRAIGHT!

i shit you not. we smoked some pot...which i hardly do now. MOTHER has sadly influenced me in that regard...um...but we shared a few amusing anecdotes of how my friend called BILLY CORGAN a hippie and threw him outta the same dressing room just a year or so earlier which RICHARD replied "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT BILLY CORGAN OR ANYONE!"

which we then all laughed until DETROIT where my band gave him a run for his money in front of my fucking people in MOTOWN at ST.ANDREWS HALL.

And as WILL told me. The bastards all threw names in a hat. And WILL had written SPIRITUALIZED and that was the name that JASON picked so there is alittle SECRET for ya fuckas.

And yes I read all this shit and you'd be surprised by WHO else reads it.

so watch yer fucking mouth?

KAPICHE!?!?

i'll post them up over there i guess...

"Many Moons ago when we were shootin' for the stars, we shared our dreams on our guitars. She brings THE NOISE,

something like taht.

getting hammered again.

i found this CAR auction in L.A so quite interested in that at the moment.

http://www.hollywoodtow.com

get some wheels!!!!!!!!

"WE WE WE WWHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSS"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what is funny is that i was looking for VANS!!

I filled it with FRITOS! but BRUCE is shy!

no matter i will show up with my EPIPHONE and my MESA BOOGIE! at some point!

maybe with SHIELDS on drums!

ha ha ha ha ha ha hAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

who's got some GIN?

running out of MEXICAN BEER!

i think it is good to be alive!

YES!

i am calling this record "DEAR KATE" and WHO has not had a KATE in their fucking lives! i mean the HOT chick at the TEENAGE FANCLUB gig that you smoke a joint with? Then if yer lucky she gives you her email address and then you like MAKEOUT online.

but do not tell VEIKO!

he may get aroused!

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:13 pm

andyblacktoo wrote:spiritualized ceased to exist post ladies and gents, they became Jason and a pile of session musicians that just do what theyre told.

One of the reasons they have a reduced media profile is because Jason has chosen to leave a major record label (BMG), and go to a label with a much reduced press department (sanctuary) , because he'd been made to have his first a&r man.

This is bull ... Jason has always been Spiritualized ... and based on what I've read, Sean Cook and Co. took much more direction from Jason than the new band does now.

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:20 pm

WARMTH!

With all due respect ANDY BLACK grew up in RUGBY!

come on now!

O.K we know JASON is very talented and all that!

Who cares!

Let's talke PRIMAL SCREAM!

now MANI is a fucking BASS WET DREAM!!

who can get me his number?

The Sprawl · Post by **The Sprawl** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:08 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:
The Sprawl wrote:Don't give me some fanboy bullshit about how I shouldn't be here because I dared to question Spiritualized. 26 Dollars has the balls to admit to disappointment in Amazing Grace so I'm not out of order in posting this.
I must admit I thought your question was silly, and not merely because of the transparent fact that Spiritualized is a solo act; I thought it was silly because no group does anyone any harm by remaining together, and I don't buy that hagiographic nonsense about 'tarnishing ones legacy' with a bad record. I don't care if any band continues to produce records past their sell-by date. I can however warn that when a performer's peak is behind him, lowered expectations are called for in evaluating future product. Mythologizing Jason Pierce, and hoping he'd burnt out or checked out so as to cultivate that mythology a la that carpetbagging Cobain, is just as stupid and fanboyish as endless defences of Amazing Grace or protestations of Pierce's continued relevance.

Dismissing Amazing Grace has absolutely nothing to do with testicles. I've been taking considerable heat for more than a year based on my evaluation of that record.

No band does anyone any harm, true, but I didn't say they did.
Also I believe I expressed my distaste for that particular Cobain quote in my post so I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.
Furthermore I wrote a post in which I questioned the unhealthy apotheosising of Jason both in the media and on this messageboard, so don't really know what point you're trying to make there either.

I have no idea what carpetbagging means but, assuming it's not some depraved American euphemism, I approve of it's use as an insult.

Regarding the testicular stuff, rest assured I'll never mention your balls again 26. No need to get testy.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:17 pm

This is cool.
The site hasn't seen this much action since Amazing (Dis)Grace was released!

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:41 pm

Muscles wrote:WARMTH!

With all due respect ANDY BLACK grew up in RUGBY!

come on now!

O.K we know JASON is very talented and all that!

Who cares!

Let's talke PRIMAL SCREAM!

now MANI is a fucking BASS WET DREAM!!

who can get me his number?

I stand by my post regardless of where Andy Black grew up.

Mani is a bass wet dream ... and a nice guy who parties really hard.

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:02 pm

yes would not mind having a beer with him!

do you have his number?

i need someone to play WILL'S parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now that he has climbed out of the VAN!

andyblacktoo · Post by **andyblacktoo** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:35 am

dont see what living in rugby has to do with anything, which I don't anymore, thankfully.

hello muscles, spoken to will recently. and whats happening with rocket girl??? if you see him, give him my regards.

alongside several other people on this board, i've seen all the spiritualized line ups over time between 1990 and present, and a lot of the stuff done by people who have since left spiritualized.

whilst jason writes and produces the material, there has been a great deal of difference in the way different people play the materials. in my opinion, the earlier line ups put out and played stuff in their own style which is much different to the more recent material. if you go and see lupine howl or slipstream, then you will see their obvious input to earlier spiritualized work. certainly the only person to have a co-writing credit with jason was mark.

jason was at pains in early nme interviews (circa 1992 / 1993) to point out that he did not dictate the band, and `if kate want to do ray manazarek solos, then she can, i cant tell her what to do`. (although if she was actually capable is a different matter).

in my opinion, the current live show is almost too formulaic, and seems to have lost all of the inginuity shown live by the earlier line ups. i recently had this conversation with pat fish and he agreed that the more recent spiritualized line ups, (whilst undoutably technically proficient), are certainly not as enjoyable, and that the band has certainly lost some of its quality with the loss of various members.

so, sorry I'm not after an argument, but i don't see how this can be taken to be bullshit.

veiko · Post by **veiko** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:46 pm

Muscles wrote:And yes I read all this shit and you'd be surprised by WHO else reads it.

i am calling this record "DEAR KATE" and WHO has not had a KATE in their fucking lives! i mean the HOT chick at the TEENAGE FANCLUB gig that you smoke a joint with? Then if yer lucky she gives you her email address and then you like MAKEOUT online.

but do not tell VEIKO!

he may get aroused!

i must be dreaming. Muscles really had a reason to remember me mocking his Kate addiction! jackass. And why you think it is so important for us to know who licked who and who smoked what?

and - Muscles, how can i say it clearly. let me try, well, if you want to get rid of me then just say that all this talk on this messageboard is a countdown for getting a ladymonkey into your bed. cum your ears.

Everybody - WHO you prefer to read this messageboard????

Muscle(s) - suck My tilly-willy. On Your Knees!
fuck it, shut your hole with Carruthers dick and jerk on and on.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:29 pm

hey muscles, i have mani's number for ya its 8675 309, make sure you get the correct country code prefix though, ass ears.

xxxshonnxxx

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:09 pm

VEIKO i'm intrigued by the ladymonkey....

dr. strangelove · Post by **dr. strangelove** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:01 am

...ladeezangennermen...introducing Bubbles and his performing cum-bubble

Adovadotchka · Post by **Adovadotchka** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:57 am

LICD is actually my favorite album, and while I was somewhat disappointed with AG, "Hold On" almost changed my life.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:05 am

Fuck Spiritualized. I wanna hear more about Muscles!

Jigme · Post by **Jigme** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:07 am

I'm a huge spiritualized fan. Love the first 3 albums and listen to them constantly. That said, I like the 2 Lupine Howl albums better than either LICD (why does Out of Sight remind me of the Atom Heart Mother Suite and why does it seem just as long?) or Amazing Grace.

The 2nd Howl album took about 5 listens to stick. Now I love it (though I skip the first track every time).. To me it sounds like Sean Cook's "rehab album"

. Great heartfelt lyrics and a sense of urgency on the entire record until the last track brings it down perfectly..
______

This is bull ... Jason has always been Spiritualized ... and based on what I've read, Sean Cook and Co. took much more direction from Jason than the new band does now.

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:01 am

Amen brother!

Don't get me wrong, i love Spiritualized, and am as excited as the next person when any of their albums/tours/singles are announced... but i just feel that the Lupine Howl albums are better than the last two Spiritualized albums.. maybe i do have high expectations of Jason as i know what he can do, and maybe thats part of my disapointment...
Neither am I saying that Lupine Howl are better than Jason at his best either... just that the Howl have released two great albums IMHO that i like more than the last two Spiritualized ones...

I aslo agree with the comments that Spiritualized, for all their shows are both an audio and visual treat, they do seem to be becoming a little samey these last times i've seen them on tour......

Jigme · Post by **Jigme** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:51 am

One more thing I missed on the last 2 Spz records was a prominent hypnotic electric bassline. Or a prominent bassline at all. I'm a sucker for that. (Even if it's just really simple-- think Dave Holland on Miles Davis' Shhh/Peaceful or Sean Cook on I think I'm in Love for that Matter.) I could see less bass on LICD which was more of an orchestral (over?) production, but with Cook's departure it seems like less a part of the sound even on Amazing Grace which is supposed to be the raw stuff.

I love the bass on the Lupine Howl stuff. Very groovy to me.

But F-me, Spritualized/Pierce can go in any direction they want! I respect the fact they aren't putting out the same stuff each go-around. This is just what I tend to like.

Clownbait · Post by **Clownbait** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:19 am

Adovadotchka wrote:LICD is actually my favorite album, and while I was somewhat disappointed with AG, "Hold On" almost changed my life.

Thats because Hold On was written before Jason entered his "amazing flunk"

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:00 pm

Clownbait wrote: Thats because Hold On was written before Jason entered his "amazing flunk"

About 150 years before.

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:36 am

andyblacktoo wrote: hello muscles, spoken to will recently. and whats happening with rocket girl??? if you see him, give him my regards.

Andy I been in contact with him via email a few weeks back. Working on some music I believe in Canada and may be doing something with FUXA or SONIC. Don't know exactly his plan. I think he was a bit homesick for ENGLAND i think he said. So you may see him soon.

Rocketgirl works for Robin and Simon from The Cocteau Twins. They have a label called Bella Union and they put out EXPLOSIONS IN THE SKY and a few other up and coming groups. So she is extremely busy with that and her own records. To her credit since 1998 she has released ALOT of records so sometimes it just gets a bit overwhelming...so many bands which cost alot of money to promote and produce...So my job is to get the music and everything in shape and see what she thinks...

I'd love it if ROCKETGIRL puts it out in EUROPE. I love her label. http://www.rocketgirl.co.uk Spacemen 3 Tribute with MOGWAI and LOW was a great record and some of the PIANO MAGIC records. GNAC and obviously PSILOVEYOU.

There was also a band called LOOPDROP from TIJUANA if you like MOOG then that is the record for you. The goal for me is to have DEAR KATE ready around Christmas.

runaway wrote: I wanna hear more about Muscles!

I appreciate your vote of confidence RUNAWAY.

Jason sets the bar high I like his work and there are only a few guys that you think WOW!

HOWEVER...

I did pick up an ELVIS PRESLEY record the other day called AMAZING GRACE which has GOSPEL TUNES on it. And I think JASON sometimes LIFTS too many things...But most people never notice it. ASHCROFT is guilty of this too! I mean "ALONE WITH EVERYBODY" album art was a direct ripoff of "DOUBLE FANTASY" artwork! And this gets a bit dull after you see it a few times. You start to wonder if they think people are fucking complete fucking idiots. Or is their love for their idols so great that they want to MIMIC them at all costs...maybe a question for 26 TEARDROPS.

Get a copy of the ELVIS "AMAZING GRACE"

Tracklisting

1. We Call On Him
2. You'll Never Walk Alone
3.Only Believe
4.Amazing Grace
5.Miracle Of The Rosary
6.Lead Me, Guide Me
7.He Touched Me
8.I've Got Confidence
9.An Evening Prayer
10.Seeing Is Believing
11. A Thing Called Love
12.Put Your Hand In The Hand
13.Reach Out To Jesus

Side 2.
1.He Is My Everything
2.There Is No God But God
3.I, John
4.Bosom Of Abraham
5.Help Me
6.If That Isn't Love
7.Why Me Lord (Live Version)
8. How Great Thou Art
9. You Better Run
10. Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus/Nearer My God To Thee

if you listen to the songs they are so beautiful and Elvis sings these with conviction and sincerity so I highly recommend them and you get a feeling JASON may have heard these.

The GOSPEL tunes are really something to get your hands on.

VEIKO! I have a thing for KATE! not WILL? o.k.

dr. strangelove wrote:...ladeezangennermen...introducing Bubbles and his performing cum-bubble

DR. have we met?

BZA! where is that BLACK PUDDIN' I have a hangover yet again. Met this British Girl named CHERRY in Hollywood the other day. CHERRY and I had a few drinks or maybe 3. She is pretty cute and that BRITISH TWANG is rather sexy. Do you think she likes HAGGIS?

Love Muscles

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:44 pm

Muscles wrote:
Jason sets the bar high I like his work and there are only a few guys that you think WOW!

HOWEVER...

I did pick up an ELVIS PRESLEY record the other day called AMAZING GRACE which has GOSPEL TUNES on it. And I think JASON sometimes LIFTS too many things...But most people never notice it. ASHCROFT is guilty of this too! I mean "ALONE WITH EVERYBODY" album art was a direct ripoff of "DOUBLE FANTASY" artwork! And this gets a bit dull after you see it a few times. You start to wonder if they think people are fucking complete fucking idiots. Or is their love for their idols so great that they want to MIMIC them at all costs...maybe a question for 26 TEARDROPS.

Get a copy of the ELVIS "AMAZING GRACE"

BZA! where is that BLACK PUDDIN' I have a hangover yet again. Met this British Girl named CHERRY in Hollywood the other day. CHERRY and I had a few drinks or maybe 3. She is pretty cute and that BRITISH TWANG is rather sexy. Do you think she likes HAGGIS?

MUSCLES - The very mention of BLACK PUDDEN' should be enough to set her heart racing - (black puddin' has never failed me yet...)

There is a series of threads somewhere here that back up what you're saying on rip offs - theres an endless line of lifts, of course the more you hear the more you notice, and some are very obscure indeed. (Matthew Shipp - 'Amazing Grace' anybody)

But at least they are usually stealing from great music...although I notice a distinct sound of The Vengaboys on 'She Hit Me (It Felt Like A Kiss)'

J and Ashcroft should settle and go on the road as A Tribute To The Righteous Brothers - now THAT would be something else...

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:11 pm

Try sme black pudding and white pudding with some rings of apple fried in butter. Its excellent. Maybe just some nice salad leaves on the side.

Adovadotchka · Post by **Adovadotchka** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:26 pm

twentysixdollars wrote:
Clownbait wrote: Thats because Hold On was written before Jason entered his "amazing flunk"
About 150 years before.

Oh. Well that explains it then. Were there other songs on AG that were also written previous to the flunkiness?

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:04 pm

Well presumably "The Ballad of Richie Lee" was written shortly after Richie Lee died.

The only other "good" song, "Never Goin' Back", was probably made up on the spot. Ditto Rated X, although I don't like it.

andyblacktoo · Post by **andyblacktoo** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:30 pm

muscles

thanks for the reply, last time i saw will (at the slipstream gig in northampton) he was about to leave, and couldnt wait, so I'm amused he's homesick for rugby.

as for vinita.....i knew things were really busy and that all her bands were in the studio so she'd gone to help the cocteaus, but that was a while ago and all things rocket girl had gone very quiet.

i'm glad that it's still going, I got a bit worried she'd decided to pack it all in

for those unaware, rocket girl is a very very good record, label

especially mazarin and ps i love you.

Post by **sunny** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:37 pm

Muscles wrote:
I did pick up an ELVIS PRESLEY record the other day called AMAZING GRACE which has GOSPEL TUNES on it. And I think JASON sometimes LIFTS too many things...But most people never notice it. ASHCROFT is guilty of this too! I mean "ALONE WITH EVERYBODY" album art was a direct ripoff of "DOUBLE FANTASY" artwork! And this gets a bit dull after you see it a few times. You start to wonder if they think people are fucking complete fucking idiots. Or is their love for their idols so great that they want to MIMIC them at all costs...maybe a question for 26 TEARDROPS.

I'm usually a passive reader of this Forum but I feel compelled to comment .
I have to disagree with you about the 'LIFTING' Mr Muscles. I find that there is an exaggerated level of criticism directed at Mr Pierce with regards to this. It seems perfectly OK for the entire Jazz world to re-record and interpret standards. Why not in rock? If the interpretation is individual and hopefully inspired I don't see the problem. A lot of 'traditional' tunes have been re-recorded in many genres ranging from blues, folk (in various cultures) and gospel. Everyone's at it and so what? Why can't Jason do likewise? I've never believed that musicians exist in a bubble and can come up with completely independent work anyway. If I didn't think Spz had anything personal to contribute to this heritage I might agree with you, but as it stands I feel they do. More power to them.

Sunny

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:45 pm

Dear Sunny.

I am overjoyed that you took time out of your busy day to post here...this forum is in need of new blood as the old cohorts are boring. As I see it if Jason quits music NOW. He has provided me with alot of entertainment. Especially KATE on slow nights...and this is the PICTURE that I usually enjoy most especially in PHOTOSHOP as i can crop KATE'S LEGS very close to my FACE!

If JASON is content doing ELVIS songs, and singing in his IGGY VOICE the rest of his life then so be it.

The rest of us are writing our own material.

I congratulate JASON on his latest original masterpoop. AMAZING CRAP

o.k now back to my album.

if you want to hang out with a real SPIRITUAL MAN you know where to find me.

kiss kiss kiss.
Love M.

time to get back to my ST.PAULI GIRL brewed and bottled in Bremen, Germany...and mixing "DEAR KATE"

by the way are YOU Kate?

if SO...please leave ASHCROFT and come to HOLLYWOOD...you and i can be happy.

The Beatles at least credited the people they RIP OFF on their albums...tell your EX to do the same. And tell TRICKY DICKY to leave the JOHN LENNON RIP OFFS alone.

Maybe give McCABE a call.

kay sugarbunny?

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:51 pm

see kiddies this is why you can't stay in that warm california sun too long. you start to think people give a shit about your music.

xxxshonnxxx

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:10 am

Dearest A Beautiful Sound.

You seem to suffer from LOW self esteem. Perhaps you should MOVE to DETROIT!

A two by four to the TEETH may make you change your mind!

remember! i own a PORSCHE and i drive REALLY FAST!

i can be in SAN DIEGO quick!

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:15 am

come on down, don't let fear or common sense (just going by yer pics) stop ya. shit i will even tell you where we are playing at next weekend. in fact we will put you on the guest list, all to piss in yer face!

xxxshonnxxx

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:18 am

one more for you muscles (err should be lack off, but never you mind that)

whats the difference between a porcupine and a porsche?

the porcupine has its pricks on the outside.

xxxshonnxxx

dr. strangelove · Post by **dr. strangelove** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:52 pm

remember! i own a PORSCHE and i drive REALLY FAST!

remember I own a MURDERER VAN and your Porsche is like the lowest entry level...even below the current Boxster...and it's not even fast

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:16 pm

A BEAUTIFUL MIND and DR.LECTER so nice to see you both again!

As much as I like to go to concerts and be urinated on and hang out with Murderers I will have to decline your kind offers at this time...perhaps I can arrange it so YOU both can meet up and KISS and PISS all night long!

Perhaps A BEAUTIFUL POOP if you play in HOLLYWOOD I may take you up on your kind offer. They have a club called SPACELAND that would probably enjoy a VERVE RIPOFF like you've got.

ORBITAL · Post by **ORBITAL** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:36 pm

Hey you guys. Lay off MUCUS. He drives a porche.
Hey MUCUS...Do you know the Libertines?

Should Spiritualized Have Split Up After Ladies & Gentle

Should Spiritualized Have Split Up After Ladies & Gentle

Re: Should Spiritualized Have Split Up After Ladies & Ge