The Big Fat Neil Young Thread

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:39 pm

Alright. You all know my opinions - or if not, you soon will - so let me hear yours.

Did Neil Young's songwriting peak with Buffalo Springfield? This is my argument, because nearly every single song he penned in that period had something clever about it - be it a key change or a harmony arrangement or a catchy riff or somethingorother - and was also hook-laden, usually gifted with a lovely bridge, and a memorable chorus or refrain. Since I'm not a believer in Young's supposed lyrical golden touch I can't be bothered to scrutinize his mature work in that regard, but musically speaking his solo material is deficient.

Isn't it?

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:13 pm

$26 ~ I find it hard to believe that you donâ€™t enjoy, for example, On The Beach. That album is fantastic. If you donâ€™t agree, then Iâ€™ll take your approach and tell you that youâ€™re wrong and Iâ€™m right. So what if the songs donâ€™t have bridges? Revolution Blues!!!

If you donâ€™t dig that, than surely you can find something great on After The Goldrush. That record is packed full of tuneful melodies and great hooks.

I donâ€™t have time to expand right now and Iâ€™m curious how youâ€™ll respond to the above, so Iâ€™m going to post this and see what happens.

Post by **runcible** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:26 pm

This time 26 can't wait for someone to mention someone he doesn't particularly care for so he's started the thread himself. Very good.

I completely agree with Warmth - On The Beach has some dazzling moments, so has a lot of his other stuff. Does 26 really not like Cinammon Girl? Listen to any version - they're all superb. I must confess to not having the full collection but I have really enjoyed much of the stuff with Crazy Horse and there's something about his nasal whine that does it for so many people. Not to mention the glory of some of the CSNY stuff (intentionally digging at 26's exposed nerve here - he's a big fan of the fab four y'see) - Deja Vu is one of my all time favourite albums and Neil's songs on it are magnificent.

Muscles · Post by **Muscles** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:35 pm

Dollars i must admit i have never had a NEIL YOUNG record but i have always had my eye on that one with the guitar case in the desert.

Is that the one to get?

Saw his special on VH1 and that man has been through hell and back 3 or 4 times.

NEIL YOUNG is a fucking survivor and CROSBY, STILLS and NASH ain't too bad either.

what songs are on that one in the desert?

gonna maybe get that at AMOEBA!

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:38 pm

Muscles wrote:Dollars i must admit i have never had a NEIL YOUNG record but i have always had my eye on that one with the guitar case in the desert.

Is that the one to get?

Saw his special on VH1 and that man has been through hell and back 3 or 4 times.

NEIL YOUNG is a fucking survivor and CROSBY, STILLS and NASH ain't too bad either.

what songs are on that one in the desert?

gonna maybe get that at AMOEBA!

Muscles ~ the one you're referring to is Decade, which is a 2 cd/triple vinyl "best of" set. It's pretty cool because it includes some Buffalo Springfield stuff as well as a lot of great solo tracks and a few rarities. In general, I try to avoid these kinds of collections, but in this case I'd make an exception. Is it a good introduction to Neil Young? Well ... that's hard to say. I'm tempted to tell you to just go out and buy After The Goldrush, On The Beach and either Tonight's The Night or Harvest. It just depends on how much money you want to spend. Hope that helps.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:18 pm

26, to just write off Neil Young's work after BS is truely absurd. As already mentioned, the majority of material with Crazy Horse has been wonderful and to see NY perform live with them is mesmerizing; Zuma, Everybody knows This Is Nowhere and Rust Never Sleeps are fucking classics.
Unquestionably NY has put out some absolute dross over the years...but remember, we're talking about a guy who has been releasing music for nearly 40 years so I'm sure we can forgive him the odd hic-cup.
Don't try and stir up a hornets nest with ridiculous sweeping statements just for your amusement.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:41 am

$26 might have had an argument if he said all Young's work after, say, Harvest. But we're talking about a guy who prefers the MC5 to the Stooges fer crissakes!!! Next thing you know he'll say that Dave Mason was better than Neil!

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:46 am

I only started this thread because I was told to! Blame Warmth!

The appeal of a record like On the Beach or Tonights The Night to me is atmosphere: I hear the haunting quality of it, yes; and in a pinch it moves me. But not so much as a record that engages my heart and my mind in equal measure, like, say, any number of a dozen or so Van Morrison records or a half-dozen Dylan ones or a Gene Clark record or a Gram Parsons one. All touch both; I'm not sure which one Neil does. With BS (!) he did both; on Harvest and Goldrush he has my heart; on some Crazy Horse he has my head - but rarely has he both (bits and pieces of On the Beach, for example), for atmosphere alone is not enough to make me adore a record. I can't love it for the same reason I can't love Hemingway.

"Cinnamon Girl" I've never liked. I don't hear anything there. Much sound and fury, signifying youknowwhat. (McGuinn's pastiche, "Driving Wheel", is even worse.) Everybody Knows has nice moments but is not a record I actually put on deliberately.

My wife and I have quarelled about Neil too so this is not an argument I'll shy from. But when I say things like "I would rather have one of the better Leonard Cohen songs than the entire corpus of Neil Young's classic seventies output" I speak the truth.

jb · Post by jb » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:50 am

Most of NY's stuff is great (esp On the Beach, Tonights the Night) but a big part of why I like him is that he is a bit of a oddball - messing around with model trains, making dire stuff like Trans, Landing on water, then coming back to form, doing a CSNY reunion then quitting mid-way through. The bio by jimmy mcdonagh is excellent if anyone has not read it before.

I really have a strong dislike for David Crosby. He was on a BBC docu a few years back sitting on his yacht talking about Dylan and he just ruined the whole programme.

slim · Post by **slim** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:40 am

Muscles get Decades, it dirt cheap over here, so I'm sure you'll be able to pick it up for next to nothing over there. It's a best of up to '75 (or somewhere round there anyway) and has some great songs on it.

I'm only a recent convert to Young but the thing I liked most about his music as I got further into it was it's variability in style, country on minute, straight forward rock the next - a bit of something for every mood - heck I even like some of Trans!!!!

The one downside is his quality control has left a bit to be desired over the last 10 or so years, but there are still good songs in the later stuff it's just there been more and more dross to go with it. Plus the last album sounds like a home recorded demo to me.

As for the lyrics, umm, I'm not much of a lyrics person myself but like his music theres a lot of peaks and troughs, they can be interesting and thought full and others can sound like a childish poem. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Starfish · Post by **Starfish** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:38 am

TheWarmth wrote: the one you're referring to is Decade, which is a 2 cd/triple vinyl "best of" set. Is it a good introduction to Neil Young? Well ... that's hard to say.

Decade is the best introduction to Neil Young, i reckon. The Buffalo Springfield and Stills-Young band material added to his solo 1970s stuff (including the >8min epics: Down By The River, Cortez The Killer, Cowgirl In The Sand).
It was the first Neil Young I'd heard when I borrowed a battered copy of the triple LP from Ellesmere Port library in 1985 (I was led to him by after hearing covers of Mr Soul and Down By The River by, ahem, The Icicle Works)

I prefer his acoustic stuff to the rockin grunge feedbacks.
Goin' Back from the album Comes A Time is a beautiful BuffSpring-esque number which $26 might appreciate.

SpaceLine · Post by **SpaceLine** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:36 pm

i grew up on neil, my dad is a neil addict, he even saw Greendale a few times live and loved it...decade is the place to start and I can't agree at all with 26 on this one, as most of the tunes mentioned in the post right above me are my favorites as well.
plus he rules on the last waltz.

grim66 · Post by **grim66** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:22 pm

I too was raised on neil, mainly his first few records: everybody knows this is nowhere, after the goldrush and harvest. as far as I'm concerned, those records are timeless and very beautiful.

tonights the night and on the beach, however, are very ugly, dirty, and emotionally raw. I bought them both at the same time and they ended up consuming a good solid 2 months of my attention. I'm dying for time fades away to be released on CD so I can complete the trilogy.

then I read somewhere that TRANS was his worst album. so I went and tracked it down. not on CD here in the states, I had to get the import. I LOVE it. it cracks me up! I think landing on water is much much much worse than this one. his unplugged version of transformer man is awesome.

not too into his recent stuff though, although I am glad to see he is still out there doing things that no one really expects him to do before coming back to earth and putting out a good crowd pleasing record.

I dunno...I can't say what it is about him....I agree with the previous post: I too am drawn to his quirkiness. the rust never sleeps movie with the jawa-esque "roadeyes" and even the trans tour show, live in berlin, are really great. ok now I'm rambling......

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:11 pm

i dunno, i think SILVER and GOLD is a nice return to form for neil.

i have to agree $26, making a stupid sweeping statement like that is trying to stir the nest. your outnumbered and outclassed on this one.

by the way, if you ever get the chance to see neil live, PAY THE PRICE. he is spectacular live. i got to see the 'family reunion' show. his wife, ducky, all the old cats from the HARVEST days. it was an amazing show.

sorry $26, all your credentials went down the drain! shorter posts from now on please.

xxxshonnxxx

SpacemanRob · Post by **SpacemanRob** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:41 pm

'for the same reason i can't love Hemingway'. Hmnn, cheap, cheap, cheap.... For a supposed critic a very cheap and very shallow shot.
For the thread On The Beach and Harvest are definate must haves. Both show rock n roll emotion at its best and both serve as timely reminders why NY has lasted so long with much more dignity than many of his contemporaries....
Both should be bought and enjoyed immediately....

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:00 am

runaway wrote: Next thing you know he'll say that Dave Mason was better than Neil!

twentysixdollars wrote:...or a Gene Clark record or a Gram Parsons one.
...I would rather have one of the better Leonard Cohen songs.

See?! I was close!

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:54 pm

"Bah! How dare you compare Neil Young, an authentic rock and roll literary genius, to that dilletante Hemingway! Sumnabitch!" - SpacemanRob, writing in alongside Coleridge and Wordsworth from beside Glastonbury Thorn

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:00 pm

runaway wrote:
runaway wrote: Next thing you know he'll say that Dave Mason was better than Neil!
See?! I was close!

It's not the same thing, Runaway! Clark was at least as talented as Neil but wasn't permitted the same degree of indulgence (with the obvious exception of on No Other) by virtue of his complete lack of commercial success and the many years he spent dangling near death. And, might I add, his career started a good five or six years earlier than Neil's.

Gram was probably not as talented as Neil but he was a more compelling personality, and anyway any of the four records on which he was featured prominently are better than any one Neil Young album. It's hard to evaluate a 'legend' that only lasted five years.

Cohen is in a different category altogether. He's one of the last half-century's greatest poets. Musically his broth is thin, but when it comes to atmosphere I'll take his over Neil's wiggy seizure-prone sociopolitical balladeering.

sly saxon · Post by **sly saxon** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:46 pm

beautiful noize wrote:O Â£26 you big naughty man, you don't listen to music and you only criticize it...now go away I don't like you.

Yeah man, you never HEARD any damn Neil Young

twentysixdollars wrote:wiggy seizure-prone sociopolitical balladeering.

oh. Apparently you HAVE heard some.

runaway · Post by **runaway** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:51 pm

There are two major flaws in $26's argument; After The Gold Rush and Harvest.

(I'd take Scott Walker or Nike Cave over Leonard Cohen any day)

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:19 pm

runaway wrote: (I'd take Scott Walker or Nike Cave over Leonard Cohen any day)

Except I don't think Cohen is pure miserablism. He was on one record ("Songs of Love and Hate") but is otherwise much more playful. But it seems only miserable people listen.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:48 pm

$26 ~ what makes you say that Gram had a more â€œcompelling personalityâ€ than Neil? I think Neilâ€™s got a pretty interesting personality â€¦ have you read Shakey? If you havenâ€™t, then Iâ€™d definitely recommend it, even to someone who doesnâ€™t consider himself a Neil Young fan.

As a side note, Iâ€™ve been meaning to purchase Gene Clarkeâ€™s â€œNo Otherâ€ â€¦ I take it itâ€™s a good album and would be a worthwhile purchase, correct?

Finally â€¦ I AM to blame for this thread, as I coaxed $26 into posting it. Iâ€™m enjoying it so far, though.

twentysixdollars · Post by **twentysixdollars** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:25 pm

In terms of personality, I meant on record; I could care less what he was or is like in real life, and that goes for Gram or Neil. The gossip in me gets a kick out of the horrid circumstances of Gram's death, but on record he comes off warmer, sexier, funnier, and just plain more charismatic than Neil Young.

No Other is a strange record and an interesting one but I'm not quite ready to offer an unequivocal recommendation. I like - love - Clark's solo records, but No Other is overproduced, in a way that most people find compelling, but the lyrical reach is sometimes beyond Gene's (or anyone's) grasp. Still, the emotional power is undeniable, and in the ginormous settings Kaye cooked up, the effect is unlike anything else. But really, when I say a Gene Clark album, I probably mean With the Gosdin Brothers - or White Light.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:33 pm

runaway wrote:There are two major flaws in $26's argument; After The Gold Rush and Harvest.

Well, I think 26$ argument is certainly skewed enough to cause heartfelt comment...and so it gets on.

get it on.

For me though, 'AFTER THE GOLDRUSH' and 'HARVEST' are only the mellower Neil Young albums...'Harvest' is parts amazing and parts

("...A ma-aa-aaa-aa...a maaaaan needs a maid.")

Even Nitzsche couldn't save that...

I'm with grim66 on this, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone rate 'TRANS' - and you are right! NEIL gets DAFT PUNK a decade earlier.
Acoustic intro/outro...then stuff like 'Sample & Hold'.

[sounds like
'SONIC BOOM & CRAZY HORSE']

'TIME FADES AWAY' is being listened to right now...a long weekend!

The real garage rock shit...'Nitzsche's piano playing is On fire.

'ZUMA', 'ARC'/'WELD','TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT, 'MIRRORBALL', 'BIG TIME', 'LIVE RUST', 'GREENDALE', 'AMERICAN STARS AND BARS' ... all have rich pickings.

As has been said already, 'DECADE' is the best intro to an artist of his stature... a great selection.

'Down To The Wire' would be better if STILLS hadn't done the fucking overdubs. DR JOHN is on piano...way back in the mix. STILLS again?

I like the 'Mr Soul' on 'UNPLUGGED' best.

My most recent YOUNG find is the 'Dead Man' soundtracks - solo heavy electric guitar - blows a lot of avant-hard groups out of the water...plus film narrative.

A lot of his albums have a cobbled-together feel, probably cause they are.

all those unreleased albums, 'HOMEGROWN' anyone?

Once YOUNG has finished his 'Archives' he will destroy all the demos he never used and unheard...

"so no one can hear 'em in the future."

And can you get the original 'Tonight's The Night' anywhere, anyway, at all? David Briggs' original version?

All you bootleg fans???

TIME FADES AWAY...

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:37 pm

As much as I like YOUNG he has not yet made a record as good as 'No Other'...

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:39 pm

wow BZA nicely put.

speaking of bootlegs, is their anybody out their that has a bootleg of spiritualized when they played with neil young? please, anybody.

xxxshonnxxx

p/s i have been searching for months with no luck.

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:52 pm

Did he play a gig with them?

I heard he watched them much more than he normally watched support bands...maybe that just wanky PR.

5 songs from a live gig as Neil Young support were included on 'Electricity' cd 1 & 2 - more sweetened, but incredible, 'live' music. (Good use of pan)

This was date 1996...why is there no bootlegs of 1996 tour...or can anyone prove me wrong?

(also 1999? 2000?)

man · Post by **man** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:46 pm

haven't posted here in some time but any chance to put the boot into 26 is one i shouldn't pass up!

i think on the beach and stars n' bars are simply fantastic. at first it was the rockers but now the mellower numbers really hold me. well except for like a hurricane, still mind-blowing. have had zuma and decade in the past but as for solo neil albums these two seem beyond (too much) reproach

Alex English · Post by **Alex English** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:09 pm

Speaking of Dead Man, that is one of Jarmusch's finest moments. It also ends on my old boss' reservation, the Makah Reservation in Neah Bay, WA which is the most western point in the continental US. I camped "on the beach" there during Makah Days.

blancheflower · Post by **blancheflower** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:08 pm

I really have a strong dislike for David Crosby. He was on a BBC docu a few years back sitting on his yacht talking about Dylan and he just ruined the whole programme.[/quote]

Have a read of his autoboiography - "Long Time Gone" apart from being a brilliant rock n roll saga (Drugs, guns, rugs, maximum security prision, drugs, smoking crack in cattleclass on trans atlantic flights, his commitment to taking drugs is unmatched) it is so west-coast-hippie smug you'll crave a copy of "Sniffin Glue" to recover.