The future of music formats

[JPB]

Not sure if people here follow David Byrne's journal but the last entry talks about the death of cd's and books etc due to the web.

What's odd is he predicts that physical music formats will die out and we will only download stuff. Weird for two reasons - 1) there doesn't seen to be any nostalgia for traditional formats and 2) I don't see how people will just accept an MP3 version of something.

For me, an MP3 replicates what a 'taped' copy would be. I would tape a record / cd so I could listen to it on a personal stereo. MP3 is even better - but the quality isn't great. Jesus - is a taped copy of a cd better? Anyway..

I guess the recent idea of releasing a new vinyl version (to play on your home hifi) with the ability to download an MP3 version (to play when out and about) is a smart way of covering both bases and making sure someone pays for the product.

I'm guessing that vinyl will out live cd's. The irony (tape was supposed to kill vinyl and cd's kill tapes but cd's can be ripped and passed to anyone...) so vinyl IS the best news record companies have right now.

Will we one day cherish our cd version as a rare and out-dated format. Will people talk about how warm they sounded..?

Hmmm

[niamhm]

Can only speak personally,but I can`t see cd`s being obselete,if the alternative is mp3`s, their handy sure but how do I attach memories ,cherish an mp3?,if some piece of music means something to me then I like to own it physically and for me the chosen format is cd for over 20 years now and I`m still happy with it.

[JPB]

I think the problem cd's has is it's just a medium for distributing data (music) and it has a cost associated with it. Downloading has zero distribution costs.

Link to the article http://journal.davidbyrne.com/

[olan]

I grew up with LPs, then moved on to cassettes before CDs took over. I buy lots of CDs, but never play them. Once ripped to a hard drive, losselessly using EAC, then playback is easy, sounds great via notebook to Beresford Caimen DAC [(see http://www.homehifi.co.uk/products/Caiman.html) and not via soundcard and headphone jack] to line in on amp. MP3s are OK on an iPOD, but sound crap otherwise. I miss artwork and sleevenotes etc, but with young kinds in the house, all LPs etc are relegated to the attic. The long and the short of it is that digital formats are not MP3 and are not by definition the work of Satan. As a lazy bastard I know that clicking a mouse is easier than changing a CD, convenient and does not break the bank........

[Stuart X.Hunter]

Interesting topic, JPB.

One that I give a bit of time too.
For me though the idea that hard copy books and music will eventually be obsolete is quite frightening. If for the only reason that when I get a saturday afternoon to myself I like to hop the No. 31 with a book (and iPod!!!) into the Big City and browse through the cd/vinyl racks of the various city centre and west end record shops. I call it "record shopping"...which is strange, still don't refer to it as cd or music shopping and i dont refer to the places that sell the items i love as anything but record shops.
I've also started using the library again, after plucking up the courage and swallowing the shame of "stealing" some vinyl from them in my teens.
I thoroughly enjoy the process of engaging with the physical editions of what I like i.e records/cd's/books/dvd's and find the whole idea of download only music/films/books a bit dull. I suffer from not having a broadband connection...it's something I dont find neccesary as I only frequent about 3 websites.
The other uprising is the idea of digital magazines...the Wire; a magazine I always find something of interest in has made a big digital stride recently and I just wonder if that's its final resting place.

I remember reading an interview in mixmag (hardcopy) where Ritchie Hawtin outlined his ideas about future music/clubbing/lifestyle and our relationship with it. It was quite futurist and whilst he spoke positively it seemed to me to be a tad insular or about becoming insular.
This can be downloaded @ http://www.m-nus.com/newsletters/MM_NOV ... HAWTIN.pdf
Funnily, I saw some gonk in the Sub Club recently with his iPod earphones in his ears...on Optimo night as well! Whether it was on or not I don't know, perhaps he just wanted to prevent damage to his lugs but still it caused me some concern...until the next havanna club went down the hatch.
I think there is always going to remain a certain detatchment from the physical the more we input our lives in and channel them through digital formats and i think that this will prevail regardless of what technological advances are made.

Also, what are these "book readers" all about? What an unenjoyable means to digest literature.

Anyway, I'm sure there'l be a generation or many future generations who choose the "nothing" or non-physical over the solid but it will never completely dissapear...i dont think.

Best,

Stuart

[They Transmit]

All hard copy formats will disappear to a certain extent in what has been predicted in a lot of press as shorter a time than previous format. Hard copy formats will eventually be minimal release and niche market.
At the end of the day its about making money, current returns on hard formats are in steep decline and have been following this trend for quite some time.
You have to remember that not everone is like us, muso record collectors, music FANS. The industry plays to the mass market consumer & that, sadly today is dominated by the MP3 generation.
Take HMV as a great example- They are moving into TV, gig tickets, venue ownership and very soon cinema as a way to turn a profit NOT backing records or CDs as a future investable product.Look at what happened to Virgin record stores then Zavvi + Fopp (now owned by HMV)
The writting is on the wall my friends

[clewsr]

I've got no real love for cd's despite owning hundreds of them. Their packaging is [with obvious honourable exceptions] cheap and plastiky. They consist of digital data held on a pysical format, which means their is little real difference to a lossless digital recording.

Bizarrely the one thing I thought I might miss - the pysical product, the art work, is less of an issue that i had expected. When I look to put a cd on, they are stacked on the shelf, so like everyone else I expect I see only the name and title on the spine, often i find it hard to choose. Get cover art working on your digital music player and suddenlly you can browse through the covers very easily, - and I find it much easier to pick out something I want to hear - the cover is very evocative and tells me much more than the words on the spine. This might not have the same effect had I never owned the album physically though.

The only digital downloads I've ever bought is the Accoustic sessions EP and the Slipstream digital only album. I can't quite get into my head the idea of choosing a virtial product over a physical one, but that is probably my age. The way forward for people like us is vinyl with digital downloads. The way forward for most other people is probably just download. In 5 years the CD will be as anachronistic as public telephone boxes.

[JPB]

It feels weird being forced to buy a download. And yes, it might be because we are used to buying cd's and vinyl but at the very least there should be the option to have an uncompressed version so you can play the music on a decent hi-fi without it sounded terrible (to his credit David Byrne does do this).

I'm now going to contradict myself - on another thread I complained about the new Massive Attack EP being sold as either a compressed download or very limited, and expensive (£20 for 4 tracks), 12" vinyl. Perhaps I should be thanking my lucky stars that there even is an expensive vinyl version and I had better get used to paying for such niche products.

And yes - all credit to Jason and other artists who still put a great deal of effort into making beautiful products.

Some really thought provoking comments - so thanks.

[jfm55]

... and the Slipstream digital only album. .

What was this album? I just checked their myspace page, figuring I had missed something, but I haven't been able to find any information out there. I am assuming you mean the Mark Refoy Slipstream. It does say that he is working on a new album called "Stereo Brain, Mono Heart".

[Holden]

The general availabilty of just about everything via the internet made me really miss the thrill of owning music. As a result I've reverted to collecting vinyl. Forgot how much I missed trawling through the racks of lps. It makes it feel special again, especially as record shops are few and far between these days.

If anyone knows of decent record shops selling vinyl in the West Midlands area (UK) I'd love to hear about them. Swordfish in Birmingham is fantastic and the record fair circuit in B'ham/Wolverhampton is good, but beyond that...

[They Transmit]

I'm with ya. I used to live for hte weekend record buying missions, finding that elusive 12" pouring over the sleeve on the bus home looking for secret knowledge.
On another tip, Mark Refoy features on a track on our new album for those interested.

[TheWarmth]

I think cds will die out over then next ten years or so. They'll probably stick around longer than most people expect. Vinyl will never die. There will always be a niche market for it.

I'm actually struggling with whether or not to press a run of cds of the new Warmth album. I didn't for the last one and I sort of regret that. It's always nice to have a physical version of an album. I'm not a big fan of cds, but there's no way I can afford to do vinyl. Right now I'm looking at doing 300 cds in full color cardboard sleeves and full color discs, which comes out to about $2 per cd. I'll sell them for $5, but I know I'll wind up giving a lot of them away. What do you guys think, would you purchase a full album for $5 on cd or just prefer to download it for the same price?

[They Transmit]

Definitely press up CD's, we always do on a release as we sell em at shows. Merchandise tables are no good with an ad for Itunes lol

[redcloud]

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I'm also a collector/hoarder of many thousands of LP's, CD's and even tapes...the idea of music being available through download only is just not what I want nor wish to see. I struggled with CD's when they first came out but have since accepted them but will always prefer vinyl. I also find the notion of album art and liner notes being a thing of the past to be as much of a shame as I do the physical product being reduced to a digital file.

I do think, however, that like LP's, the market of selling used/new CD's will be around for a while (at least until those of us who remember a world without computers begin to die off).

[burningwheel]

the problem is the source of the theory. david bryne

[flamingrev]

I don't know how long any given format is going to last, but my enjoyment of music has increased quite a lot since I started collecting vinyl a couple of years ago. There's such a glut of cheap used records! Granted, if I want something new it will usually cost more than a CD, but I love going to flea markets and cheap shops where I can buy a record for a dollar or fifty cents. Being able to buy something just because the cover is cool or the band name sounds neat is a lot of fun, and if the music is lousy it doesn't matter because it was so cheap.

With new releases, I tend to do a lot of research to make sure I'm not going to spend fifteen or twenty dollars on something that I won't like. But with cheap old records there's no risk.

[jadams501]

I was at an FYE shop earlier today and was rankled, as usual, to see new releases going for TWENTY dollars. In the mid-90s, when CDs were to a far greater degree the only option available, the average cost for a new cd was 12 or 13 bucks. That's reasonable. I'm willing to pay that for a high-res physical copy and for liner notes. But these days, when all they offer is a flimsy digipak that usually lacks lyrics or much in the way of photos or notes, and it's so easy to find things surreptitiously on the internet, the high prices just feel like an insult to music fans trying to do the right thing and support the industry. I love having the physical thing and do it in as many circumstances as possible, but the record companies and chain music stores seem to be doing their best to run themselves out of business.

[spzretent]

The theory that vinyl is the only physical medium selling is proven out with the War Sucks Ep. The vinyl sold right out rendering the CD very hard to sell. I bought quite a few off Randall and have been shifting them on the internet. I am asking $6 for the CD w/$2 s&h in the US and they are moving very slowly if at all. I 've nearly blown through 50 copies of the vinyl w/ease.
Randall & I have discussed doing other projects. Vinyl only.
Regarding buying used LPs. Record shops have gotten ridiculous for a nice copy of an average LP. Used to be $3-$4. Not its more like $8-$10. Thrift stores are great if you get there at the right time. The vinyl gets picked over so fast around here its crazy. Its like copper piping I guess. I am sure most of the good records wind up on ebay or in used shops.