The Roots of The Verve

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jadams501
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The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

I'm trying to compile a playlist of tracks that were influential in the formation of the Verve sound -- sort of a Verve equivalent of the brilliant FM Spaceman compilations.

I've already got a number of tracks that they directly borrowed from, like The Last Time for Bitter Sweet Symphony and The Four Horsemen by Aphrodite's Child for The Rolling People.

You all are as informed a bunch as I've ever met -- what tracks do you think were key to the sound of The Verve and should be on such a compilation?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by spzretent »

Not sure which tracks but I can tell you they bought loads of Can & Funkadelic from my shop.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by bunnyben »

oasis :wink:

according to some guy on the web they were influenced by the shoegazers, and i'd say probably spacemen 3 plus the usual beatles, stones, kinks plus the likes of billie holiday and the verve record artists
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by bunnyben »

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/hatiguna/ ... _the_other

:lol: :lol:

'Originally known simply as Verve, the group was formed in the small Northern English city of Wigan in 1989. Richard Ashcroft -- a swaggering, shamanic figure in the classic rock star mold -- led the band, whose original lineup also included guitarist Nick McCabe, bassist Simon Jones, and drummer Peter Salisbury. Sharing a collective fondness for the Beatles, Funkadelic, and Krautrock -- as well as a legendary appetite for psychedelics --'
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

definitely both John Martyn and Durutti Column for Nick McCabes guitar sound.

Probably lots of country/soul for the more Ashcrofty stuff but can't think of any specifics.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by beaker73 »

the intro from The Rolling People is clearly nicked from Funkadelic's 'I got a thing, you got a thing, everybody's got a thing'
And I think that early Pink Floyd, especially Interstellar Overdrive, was an influence. At least that's what people keep tellling me when I put on early Verve, I never got Pink Floyd myself :lol:
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by scratch »

ashcroft was a huge Doors fan in the early days
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Already There »

beaker73 wrote:the intro from The Rolling People is clearly nicked from Funkadelic's 'I got a thing, you got a thing, everybody's got a thing'
And I think that early Pink Floyd, especially Interstellar Overdrive, was an influence. At least that's what people keep tellling me when I put on early Verve, I never got Pink Floyd myself :lol:
Interstellar Overdrive? Can't imagine that, but The Verve had some elements of psychedelia, definitely.
angelsighs wrote:definitely both John Martyn and Durutti Column for Nick McCabes guitar sound.

Probably lots of country/soul for the more Ashcrofty stuff but can't think of any specifics.
For his guitar play, those are definitely essential. Put "I'd Rather Be Th Devil" on the compilation. But the live version. I don't know which one exactly it is though.
bunnyben wrote:oasis :wink:

according to some guy on the web they were influenced by the shoegazers, and i'd say probably spacemen 3 plus the usual beatles, stones, kinks plus the likes of billie holiday and the verve record artists
Oasis, yes. Especially the typical Noel sung songs, like some of their b-sides. But that would be Northern Soul Verve. I think On Your Own has some brit-pop elements in it.

As for Krautrock, I know of Can and that Nick likes Amon Düül II. Check out his Myspace. ^^ I am sure you'll find enough there. Or try Simon Jones' myspace. But it shows that they have many many influences.
jadams501 wrote:I'm trying to compile a playlist of tracks that were influential in the formation of the Verve sound -- sort of a Verve equivalent of the brilliant FM Spaceman compilations.
Which compilations would that be?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

There are two brilliant compilations that have been posted here that have 110 tracks for Spacemen 3 and about 50 for Spiritualized of classic tunes that Jason/Sonic either borrowed from or were general influences on their sound. I highly recommend tracking them down -- great music and great insights.

I think I'm mostly done with the Verve one... I'll post a tracklisting in the next few days to see what people think.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Already There »

Thanks for the information. I'll check those out.
W: What are we supposed to do with that?
M: Eat it.
W: Eat it? Fucker’s alive.
M: Yeah, you’ve got to kill it.
W: Me? I’m the firelighter and fuel collector.

Gigs 2010: http://www.last.fm/user/Colin_in_Mexico/events/2010
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

Well, after much thought and work putting it together, I've got a rough 126 track compilation of the roots and influences of The Verve and Richard Ashcroft's solo career. It turned out much longer and more extensive than I was expecting!

I would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions about additions and omissions any of you might have...


The Electric Prunes Holy Are You
Al Green How Can You Mend A Broken Heart
Al Green Jesus Is Waiting
Al Green Livin' For You
Andrew Oldham Orchestra The Last Time [Bitter Sweet Symphony Sample]
Aphrodite's Child The Four Horsemen
The Beach Boys God Only Knows
The Beach Boys Caroline No
The Beatles In My Life
The Beatles Rain
The Beatles Here Comes The Sun
The Beatles Across the Universe
The Beatles Let It Be
Big Star Holocaust
Bob Dylan Positively 4th Street
Bob Dylan Hazel
Booker T. & The MG's Soul Dressing
Booker T. & The MG's Boot-Leg
Brian Eno Another Green World
Brian Eno An Ending (Ascent)
The Byrds Eight Miles High
The Byrds Hickory Wind
Can Spoon
Can Halleluhwah
The Carpenters Superstar
Chris Bell I Am The Cosmos
Cocteau Twins Lorelei
The Cure Fascination Street
Curtis Mayfield Freddie's Dead
David Axelrod Holy Thursday
David Axelrod The School Boy
David Essex Rock On
Dennis Wilson River Song
Dennis Wilson You And I
The Doors Riders on the Storm
Eddie Hazel So Goes The Story
Elvis Presley Can't Help Falling In Love
Elvis Presley In The Ghetto
Elvis Presley Somebody Bigger Than You And I
Ennio Morricone L'estasi Dell'oro (The Ecstasy Of Gold)
Eric Clapton Wonderful Tonight
The Four Tops Reach Out I'll Be There
Funkadelic I Got A Thing, You Got A Thing, Everybody's Got A Thing
Funkadelic Funky Dollar Bill
Funkadelic Maggot Brain
George Harrison My Sweet Lord
George Harrison Isn't It A Pity
George Harrison Ballad Of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll)
Gil Scott-Heron The Bottle
Glen Campbell Rhinestone Cowboy
Glen Campbell I Wanna Live
Gram Parsons Brass Buttons
Gram Parsons Love Hurts
Happy Mondays Wrote For Luck
Happy Mondays Loose Fit
The Impressions People Get Ready
Isaac Hayes Wonderful
Isaac Hayes Hyperbolicsyllablicsesquedalymistic
The J.B.'s Pass The Peas
James Brown The Popcorn
The Jesus & Mary Chain Just Like Honey
The Jimi Hendrix Experience May This Be Love
The Jimi Hendrix Experience Little Wing
John Lee Hooker Boom Boom
John Lennon God
John Lennon Mind Games
John Martyn Look In
John Martyn One World
John Martyn Outside In
Joy Division Love Will Tear Us Apart
The La's There She Goes
Led Zeppelin Moby Dick
Led Zeppelin Whole Lotta Love
Led Zeppelin You Shook Me
Maceo & The Macks Soul Power
Marvin Gaye I Want You [Vocal]
Marvin Gaye What's Going On
Marvin Gaye 'T' Stands For Trouble
Maurice Gibb On Time [Are You Ready Sample]
Mellow Instant Love
The Meters Cissy Strut
The Meters Stormy
My Bloody Valentine Soft As Snow (But Warm Inside)
My Bloody Valentine To Here Knows When
My Bloody Valentine Soon
Neil Diamond Cracklin' Rosie
Neil Diamond Forever in Blue Jeans
Neil Young Cinnamon Girl
Neil Young After The Gold Rush
Neil Young Heart Of Gold
New Order Confusion
New Order World In Motion
Oasis Live Forever
Oasis Slide Away
Oasis Wonderwall
Pink Floyd Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun
Pink Floyd Mudmen
Pink Floyd Speak To Me/Breathe
Ride Seagull
Ride Sennen
The Righteous Brothers You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'
The Rolling Stones She's A Rainbow
The Rolling Stones Loving Cup
The Rolling Stones Beast of Burden
Sly & The Family Stone Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Again)
Slowdive Alison
Slowdive Souvlaki Space Station
The Smiths How Soon Is Now (12" Version)
Spacemen 3 Honey
Spacemen 3 Hypnotized
Spiritualized Step Into The Breeze (Part 1)
Spiritualized Angel Sigh
The Staple Singers This May Be The Last Time
The Stone Roses Elephant Stone
The Stone Roses She Bangs The Drums
The Stone Roses Waterfall
The Stone Roses Something's Burning (Full Length)
The Stooges Loose
The Stooges 1970
The Sugarhill Gang Rapper's Delight
Van Morrison Astral Weeks
Van Morrison Come Running
The Velvet Underground I'm Waiting For The Man
The Velvet Underground Sweet Jane
Walter Jackson It's All Over ['Music Is Power' Sample]
Waylon Jennings Sweet Dream Woman
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by toomilk »

very comprehensive list you got there. kudos.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Already There »

Nice to see two Ride songs on the list. Ah, Oasis' Slide Away. Roots and influences. The Stone Roses definitely have to be on the list. Nice choice.
W: What are we supposed to do with that?
M: Eat it.
W: Eat it? Fucker’s alive.
M: Yeah, you’ve got to kill it.
W: Me? I’m the firelighter and fuel collector.

Gigs 2010: http://www.last.fm/user/Colin_in_Mexico/events/2010
olan
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by olan »

I've never been a huge Verve fan, I could never get over the Mad Richard thing when they started out (I know, I know....*), but I love McCabe's guitar playing which is fucking superb. He is obviously very very gifted technically, but appreciates the virtues and beauty of simplicity (sorry to sound like a Mojo piece). As I fan I would add a couple of Durutti Column tunes to that list. Presonally, Never Known off the LC album and People's Park or Finding The Sea from the Vini Reilly album capture the vibe perfectly. Layers of guitars, and delay/echo being the name of the game IMHO.

* Have dug out lots of old Verve vinyl/cds to see if I can get over this.....
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Already There »

olan wrote:I've never been a huge Verve fan, I could never get over the Mad Richard thing when they started out (I know, I know....*), but I love McCabe's guitar playing which is fucking superb. He is obviously very very gifted technically, but appreciates the virtues and beauty of simplicity (sorry to sound like a Mojo piece). As I fan I would add a couple of Durutti Column tunes to that list. Presonally, Never Known off the LC album and People's Park or Finding The Sea from the Vini Reilly album capture the vibe perfectly. Layers of guitars, and delay/echo being the name of the game IMHO.

* Have dug out lots of old Verve vinyl/cds to see if I can get over this.....
I found the Mad Richard thing quite amusing. But admittedly it was more than just a bit over the top.

Yeah, Nick McCabe is worth so much more than some of Richard's antics. I think your description is quite to the point, nothing wrong about that. One could write a book about Nick McCabe and the guitar. (Now that is an interesting idea. I'd love to read a book like that. Another good idea could be Kevin Shields and amplifiers.) Nick just manages to keep it simple and gets more complex to serve a purpose, I wish there were more people like that out there.
W: What are we supposed to do with that?
M: Eat it.
W: Eat it? Fucker’s alive.
M: Yeah, you’ve got to kill it.
W: Me? I’m the firelighter and fuel collector.

Gigs 2010: http://www.last.fm/user/Colin_in_Mexico/events/2010
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by throb »

jadams501 wrote:There are two brilliant compilations that have been posted here that have 110 tracks for Spacemen 3 and about 50 for Spiritualized of classic tunes that Jason/Sonic either borrowed from or were general influences on their sound. I highly recommend tracking them down -- great music and great insights.

I think I'm mostly done with the Verve one... I'll post a tracklisting in the next few days to see what people think.
Nuts, I missed those Spacemen/Spiritualized comps. Is there any chance of a repost of the tracklisting? Thanks. Your Verve one is a mighty thing! Thanks for taking the time to do this!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by toomilk »

Dug them up from a thread that strayed onto the subject from about a year back...with a few added bonuses.
olliemorr wrote:The Spacemen 3 110 (605MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OGG9T2SK
The Jason Spaceman 55 (337MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q57A5U5A
...and as a bonus, The Bobby Gillespie 50 (261MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIP75P5I


HUGE thanks to FMSpaceman on LastFM for putting these comps together (Hello FMSpaceman, I know you're watching). I'm indebted to the guy as he's introduced me to a shitload of stuff I'd never heard of before, and as a result it's sent me off on all kinds of new tangents of musical discovery. 8)
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by throb »

toomilk wrote:
olliemorr wrote:The Spacemen 3 110 (605MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OGG9T2SK

The Jason Spaceman 55 (337MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q57A5U5A

...and as a bonus, The Bobby Gillespie 50 (261MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIP75P5I
Thanks so much for finding these...
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throb
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by throb »

throb wrote:
toomilk wrote:
olliemorr wrote:The Spacemen 3 110 (605MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OGG9T2SK

The Jason Spaceman 55 (337MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q57A5U5A

...and as a bonus, The Bobby Gillespie 50 (261MB)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIP75P5I
Thanks so much for finding these...
I've just started to unpick these.

Oh. My. Goodness.

Harmonia. How did I miss them? I had no idea "Beautiful Happiness" was so...Harmonious!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Pat Garrett »

Great compilations - thanks so much!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by JakeCardigan »

Those three compilations have been a constant source of pleasure and discovery for the last few months... i think the the Verve one could be the same, the depth of work is impressive, but i don't want to be critical but perhaps an edit down to fifty would be an interesting project, maybe a few people across the board could have a go and reply with the different versions... see what we come up with!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

The one that I made is for my personal playlist, but I've always assumed that were anything to be shared it would be an abbreviated version. I totally welcome suggestions on what the MOST essential of these are, and perhaps I'll post a shorter version soon. How about 60 though :D ?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

its a good list but if i'm nitpicking surely some of them are contempories (ie people who happened to be working along similar lines at a similar time) rather than influences.

would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)

good call on the dubbier, spacier end of Stone Roses- Somethings Burning is one of my favourite Roses songs and almost certainly an influence on early Verve side-fillers like Feel and Endless Life.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

angelsighs wrote:would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)
.
Scott Walker... wow. As someone who loves a broad range of lounge music and kitsch, I have an extraordinarily high tolerance for campy cheese. But I just tracked down a compilation of his stuff on your recommendation and... :shock: . No offense, but it's in spectacularly bad taste. Some of the most cringe-worthy crap I've ever heard. Please tell me what I am missing -- or recommend a specific song for the list so I don't have to wade through any more of it!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

jadams501 wrote:
angelsighs wrote:would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)
.
Scott Walker... wow. As someone who loves a broad range of lounge music and kitsch, I have an extraordinarily high tolerance for campy cheese. But I just tracked down a compilation of his stuff on your recommendation and... :shock: . No offense, but it's in spectacularly bad taste. Some of the most cringe-worthy crap I've ever heard. Please tell me what I am missing -- or recommend a specific song for the list so I don't have to wade through any more of it!
there is a lot of kitschy stuff in his catalogue, including a lot of covers and showtunes etc that he has all but disowned.
but the real gems are his self-written songs, a lot of which are compiled on the 'Boychild' album. if thats the compilation that you are talking about then you're obviously beyond help and his stuff just isn't your bag! :) no offense taken!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by scratch »

I guess I have spectacularly bad taste too.. I love crap like scott walker.
much more than anything any verve member has been involved in after 95
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

scratch wrote:I guess I have spectacularly bad taste too.. I love crap like scott walker.
much more than anything any verve member has been involved in after 95
No offense!

I'm a big fan of MacArthur Park, Nancy Sinatra, the Shatner/Nimoy albums of the period, Ballads of the Green Berets, and loads of lounge music from The Sound Gallery, Easy Tempo, and various other series. I'm a big fan of various crooners, and my favorite period for Frank Sinatra is his cheesily-orchestrated material from the 60s. And there's loads of psychedelic music with questionable lyrics from that era that I adore as well -- so I'm not someone with prim tastes or without a lot of tolerance for music most would find unlistenably campy.

But having listened to Scott Walker and The Walker Brothers over the last few days, I am utterly dumbfounded how they ever scored a hit. I'm a big fan of the Righteous Brothers and other Phil Spector productions, and I like Be Here Now and Let It Come Down, so I have no issue with bombast. Walter Jackson's version of "My Ship is Comin' In" is one of my all time favorite songs, but in my opinion they butcher it. Can you explain what you like about Scott Walker, or which songs of his were a Verve influence? I just can't see the appeal.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by scratch »

jadams501 wrote: Can you explain what you like about Scott Walker, or which songs of his were a Verve influence? I just can't see the appeal.
you´d have to ask the verve about any possible influences..

but here are a few imo very good scott originals:

the bridge
montague terrace
rosemary
big louise
copenhagen
angels of ashes
the old man´s back again

If you have heard all of these and think they´re all complete crap then you can be assured you haven´t missed anything.

I agree he didn´t always handle covers so well. I prefer the jaques brel originals even though my french is horrible.. but his version of my death is the best english version, and his version of ballad of sacco and vanzetti doesn´t have the voice of joan baez=instant win in my book :lol:
I even like his Bond song only myself to blame

but hey I know what it´s like when people expect you to like something and you just don´t get it.. I like one oasis song.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by toomilk »

I can definitely see a Scott Walker-esque influence on Ashcroft's solo efforts. The sly man in shades singing over lush traditional orchestrations yet hints of spanish guitars/trumpets. Well, I'm describing "A Song for the Lovers," but that's SCOTT 4 TO A FUCKING "T". "ASFTL" is as close to "The Seventh Seal" as you can get without giving Walker a songwriting credit. But this says more about his solo career than The Verve. Songs like "History" and "The Drugs Don't Work" hint at Walker, but mehhh.....

So including it on this compilation could be questionable. I think to be included on an influence compilation, you need to have some kind of source. The artist needs to cite these songs/artists as influences on their career in an interview, play it on a breezeblock-type thing, cover it, etc etc.


****gets up and digs out his old issues of Q and Mojo****


"[future Verve members] introduced him to their ramshackle enthusiasms: Marvin Gaye, Chris Bell, Can, Bill Withers, Neu, Sly, Aphrodite's Child. Then, all together, they discovered The Stone Roses' She Bangs the Drum. "Since the moment it came out it's been a part of my life," says Ashcroft" (looking back, you all those except for Bill Withers and Neu)

"I love Neil Diamond" -R.A.

"A Song For The Lovers is more European, it's Serge Gainsbourg, it's Morricone, it's Scott Walker" -R.A.



There are more quotes I found, but these apply to Ashcroft's solo career, not The Verve's, so I'll stop so I don't get too off-topic.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

toomilk wrote:I can definitely see a Scott Walker-esque influence on Ashcroft's solo efforts. The sly man in shades singing over lush traditional orchestrations yet hints of spanish guitars/trumpets. Well, I'm describing "A Song for the Lovers," but that's SCOTT 4 TO A FUCKING "T". "ASFTL" is as close to "The Seventh Seal" as you can get without giving Walker a songwriting credit. But this says more about his solo career than The Verve. Songs like "History" and "The Drugs Don't Work" hint at Walker, but mehhh.....

So including it on this compilation could be questionable. I think to be included on an influence compilation, you need to have some kind of source. The artist needs to cite these songs/artists as influences on their career in an interview, play it on a breezeblock-type thing, cover it, etc etc.


****gets up and digs out his old issues of Q and Mojo****

"[future Verve members] introduced him to their ramshackle enthusiasms: Marvin Gaye, Chris Bell, Can, Bill Withers, Neu, Sly, Aphrodite's Child. Then, all together, they discovered The Stone Roses' She Bangs the Drum. "Since the moment it came out it's been a part of my life," says Ashcroft" (looking back, you all those except for Bill Withers and Neu)

"I love Neil Diamond" -R.A.

"A Song For The Lovers is more European, it's Serge Gainsbourg, it's Morricone, it's Scott Walker" -R.A.

There are more quotes I found, but these apply to Ashcroft's solo career, not The Verve's, so I'll stop so I don't get too off-topic.
I've actually added some Bill Withers since I posted the earlier version of the list. I'll add some Serge... does anybody know anything about Neu to recommend any of their stuff?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

scratch wrote: here are a few imo very good scott originals:

the bridge
montague terrace
rosemary
big louise
copenhagen
angels of ashes
the old man´s back again
all good choices, other ones i'd highlight are It's Raining Today, On Your Own again.. or basically anything from Scott 4 which is one of my favourite albums ever. it has some slightly more stripped down country/folk influenced tunes which are more like Ashcrofts later solo stuff.. whereas Scotts lusher stuff is more Alone With Everybody.
there are plenty of other tunes on jadams final list which are more applicable to ashcroft solo than verve, so these are kosher I think.

some of the covers on Scott 1 & 2 are a bit cheesy, but a lot of the Brel ones are good, the Tim Hardin ones are brilliant, and Scott just has an amazing voice i think. I'm not a fan of 'crooners' at all (never got the appeal of Sinatra etc) but there's something else in his voice.. a weight, a darkness. the arrangements are also amazing, and without being remotely psychedelic I find a lot of his albums quite 'otherworldly'. Scott is also a better lyricist than Ashcroft ever was.

maybe a bit of Walker in Bittersweet Symphony, especially the extended version on one of the singles which has an extra section in the middle.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

angelsighs wrote:its a good list but if i'm nitpicking surely some of them are contempories (ie people who happened to be working along similar lines at a similar time) rather than influences.

would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)

good call on the dubbier, spacier end of Stone Roses- Somethings Burning is one of my favourite Roses songs and almost certainly an influence on early Verve side-fillers like Feel and Endless Life.

I can definitely hear some McCabe in Jacqueline, the first DC song that's really jumped out for me... any specific tracks you think belong on there?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by bunnyben »

jadams501 wrote:
angelsighs wrote:would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)
.
Scott Walker... wow. As someone who loves a broad range of lounge music and kitsch, I have an extraordinarily high tolerance for campy cheese. But I just tracked down a compilation of his stuff on your recommendation and... :shock: . No offense, but it's in spectacularly bad taste. Some of the most cringe-worthy crap I've ever heard. Please tell me what I am missing -- or recommend a specific song for the list so I don't have to wade through any more of it!
my favorite scott walker song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_ktTtAZfV4

he was part of the 'boyband' the walker brothers who had the beautiful song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiiCYwy3CaM

after the band split his agent gave him a tape of rod mckuen (however it;s spelt) having translated the great belgium singer/songwriter jacques brel into english

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKMqCqjixyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEeOVgHk_Es

and mr walker was then reborn as the american (though he seems very english) jacques brel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_eVJ7WYaY

the previous song then went on to become a classic covered by many people including this wonderful version by dusty springfield

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBPlWy3sj24

then mr walker went into his more explanatory side and on the walker brothers reunion album released tracks like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnLfST5Avqs

and then his subsequent solo albums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpBxXEPQow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuHfAqz3TFY

more info can be found in the wonderful documentry 30th century man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEYWGQMqC74

here endeth the brief musical history of scott engel (aka scott walker) :D
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by bunnyben »

angelsighs wrote: maybe a bit of Walker in Bittersweet Symphony, especially the extended version on one of the singles which has an extra section in the middle.
please explain this :D
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

bunnyben wrote:
angelsighs wrote: maybe a bit of Walker in Bittersweet Symphony, especially the extended version on one of the singles which has an extra section in the middle.
please explain this :D
hehe yeh probably a bit more of a tenuous link there!

30th century man is a really interesting watch. what other doc has a man punching a slab of meat as percussion? :)

I've never actually heard any of his avant garde albums to be honest. have you ventured into those waters bunnyben?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by bunnyben »

angelsighs wrote:
bunnyben wrote:
angelsighs wrote: maybe a bit of Walker in Bittersweet Symphony, especially the extended version on one of the singles which has an extra section in the middle.
please explain this :D
hehe yeh probably a bit more of a tenuous link there!

30th century man is a really interesting watch. what other doc has a man punching a slab of meat as percussion? :)

I've never actually heard any of his avant garde albums to be honest. have you ventured into those waters bunnyben?
please do explain, is there an alternative version of bs? also check your pms
'raging and weeping are left on the early road
now each in his holy hill
the glittering and hurting days are alomst done
then let us compare mythologies
i have learned my elaborate lie
of soaring crosses and poisened thorns'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

There's an extended mix of BSS that incorporates more from the original Oldham "The Last Time" into an extended interlude in the middle of the song. Makes the song too long for radio play, and it wouldn't have been as big a hit, but I think it's a big improvement and I rarely listen to the album version anymore.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

yup thats the one. the album version is 5.58, extended version is 7:54.
as well as that middle bit with all the cool bells n percussion n stuff it's got a longer intro where the strings float for a bit, and a longer outro.
I prefer it to the album version too.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

jadams501 wrote:
angelsighs wrote:its a good list but if i'm nitpicking surely some of them are contempories (ie people who happened to be working along similar lines at a similar time) rather than influences.

would definitely add some Durutti Column in and also some solo Scott Walker who was obviously an influence on Ashcroft solo- big lush arrangements, deep voice.. not that any Ashcroft solo album is anywhere near Scotts 1-4 :)

good call on the dubbier, spacier end of Stone Roses- Somethings Burning is one of my favourite Roses songs and almost certainly an influence on early Verve side-fillers like Feel and Endless Life.

I can definitely hear some McCabe in Jacqueline, the first DC song that's really jumped out for me... any specific tracks you think belong on there?
jacqueline is a good choice. a lot from that album (LC) would fit the bill- like Sketch For Dawn 1, Messidor, The Missing Boy.
or maybe Otis, from 'Vini Reilly'
or maybe Conduct from 'The Return Of'
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Dreamweapon »

Does anyone still have this to reupload at all please?

At the time, there was also The Jason Spaceman 55, The Spacemen 3 110 and The Bobby Gillespie 50, which I believe (forgive me if I'm wrong), were the work of toomilk.

Did anyone ever put together some artwork for these by the way?

Sorry if I'm being cheeky.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by toomilk »

I wish I had done them! I don't have them on my new computer, but I got them through the user FMSpaceman, who I don't think haunts this forum anymore...
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

I don't have the Bobby Gillespie one, but I do have the Spacemen 3 and J Spaceman comps. I can put up the Spaceman one on Sendspace, but don't know how to post the larger Spacemen 3 one.

The Verve one I never put online because there didn't seem to be much interest, and over time I've added a lot more stuff to it to the point that it's gotten unwieldy. If there's interest, I can put together a shorter version more along the lines of the other comps.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Hofstadter »

I would love to grab those!! Perhaps the spacemen 3 one you can split up into two parts? (i.e. put half the files into one archive and half into another). This sounds really cool, thanks for potentially doing this!
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

Sendspace is giving me an error when I try to post -- any other suggestions?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Hofstadter »

Mediafire?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Dreamweapon »

I still have the Bobby Gillespie, Spacemen 3 and Spz ones - don't know how to upload stuff though or the possible implications of doing so....?
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by heisenberg »

Has anyone noticed the Black Ships are now called Black Submarine?

Sorry to disrupt the flow of this thread, but seeing as it's currently high up on the board I thought it was appropriate to put it here.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by slidesong »

The Verve would've been nothing without Nick McCabe. Case in point: Urban Hymns.

Does anyone know what McCabe is up to these days?
jadams501 wrote:I don't have the Bobby Gillespie one, but I do have the Spacemen 3 and J Spaceman comps. I can put up the Spaceman one on Sendspace, but don't know how to post the larger Spacemen 3 one.
Download a program called DropBox. It allows you to upload enormous files for free.

"All the best things in life fuck you up the most, whether it's lovesickness or drugsickness."
- J Spaceman
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by spunder »

slidesong wrote:The Verve would've been nothing without Nick McCabe. Case in point: Urban Hymns.

Does anyone know what McCabe is up to these days?
jadams501 wrote:I don't have the Bobby Gillespie one, but I do have the Spacemen 3 and J Spaceman comps. I can put up the Spaceman one on Sendspace, but don't know how to post the larger Spacemen 3 one.
Download a program called DropBox. It allows you to upload enormous files for free.
read the post above yours!! :-)
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by slidesong »

spunder wrote:
slidesong wrote:The Verve would've been nothing without Nick McCabe. Case in point: Urban Hymns.

Does anyone know what McCabe is up to these days?
read the post above yours!! :-)
Ah! Thank you my friend.

"All the best things in life fuck you up the most, whether it's lovesickness or drugsickness."
- J Spaceman
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Hofstadter »

spunder
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by spunder »

slidesong wrote:
spunder wrote:
slidesong wrote:The Verve would've been nothing without Nick McCabe. Case in point: Urban Hymns.

Does anyone know what McCabe is up to these days?
read the post above yours!! :-)
Ah! Thank you my friend.
The Black Ships, now Black Submarine appear to have been 'recording' since at least 2009. Simon Jones is also in the band....unfortunatley considering how long theyve been together it is taking an awful long time to get their arses in gear. theyve done ONE gig, released an okish EP and had a 10min teaser trailer on net about a year ago....this selection of snippets was VERY promising IMO but theyve done fuck all since....
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Dreamweapon »

When you upload stuff, presumably it goes straight to that site's server and no one has access to your computer? Again, sorry if that makes me sound rather stupid.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Hofstadter »

Yeah that's why there are limits. 'Torrenting' is sort of the opposite of a site like Mediafire, SendSpace, or the late Megaupload (which is known as 'filehosting'). For those sites, you upload the files and they are stored on their servers (they are the hosts).

Torrenting on the other hand works as such: anybody who has the files 'seeds' them - they go straight from his or her computer to others' in small pieces (the people downloading are called 'leechers' or 'peers') - as more people complete the transfer of files, more people will then be able to seed the files to others since they now have 'em themselves. When leeching though, you are not actually getting all your files from one person - you are getting small pieces of the file from all the seeders in the 'swarm'.

All the files are being transferred from peer to peer, hence 'P2P'.

Also, for torrenting, there is something called a 'tracker' - which is sort of like a map of the network - it keeps track of all the computers that have the files - each new torrent has a .torrent file, which is sort of like the address of the files - when you download the torrent itself, which is a very small file, it points you to all the computers that already have the files, the seeds. It's sort of like your set of directions, to keep up the extended metaphor.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by Dreamweapon »

Cheers for that! Now I understand the principles of uploading, here's the Bobby Gillespie 50 reuploaded. It was originally from FM Spaceman, so hoping that by doing this, it's OK with him and moderators

http://www.sendspace.com/file/grql2u
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by jadams501 »

spunder wrote:The Black Ships, now Black Submarine appear to have been 'recording' since at least 2009. Simon Jones is also in the band....unfortunatley considering how long theyve been together it is taking an awful long time to get their arses in gear. theyve done ONE gig, released an okish EP and had a 10min teaser trailer on net about a year ago....this selection of snippets was VERY promising IMO but theyve done fuck all since....
There was a recent update from Black Submarine promising a bunch of collaborations and now teasing a double album. At this point I'm not holding my breath but I'm sure they've got some gems in the vault.

They recently released a cover of Talk Talk's Renee with guest vocalist Amelia Tucker. It's kind of gothic but very good.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by heisenberg »

The cover of Renee is absolutely superb. The rest of the Talk Talk cover album sounds awful though. Talk Talk are definitely in the 'don't cover' category I'd say.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by The Kwisatz Haderach »

Somehow this thread alluded me first time round. Can any kind soul who has these compilations reseed them please? Pretty please???

Would love to give these a listen.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by heisenberg »

Not to derail this thread, but seeing as it's about the Verve...

In his autobiography, The Verve's manager Jazz Summers describes both the band's breakups (he wasn't their manager pre UH) in fairly deep detail. Some interesting facts, including how they did themselves out of a massive amount of money in 1998 (including a million pound, one album deal alone for McCabe) because they couldn't get on. Ashcroft does come out of it rather better than I would have imagined. But then, I believe he and Summers are still together, so maybe that's behind the glowing account. Having said that, Summers takes no-one's side in this story. It sounds like a nightmare scenario. That band was wracked with so many problems. It's a shame.

Anyway, a compelling read if you are a fan.
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by spzretent »

Is there a link to this article?
http://www.lilmoxie.com
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Re: The Roots of The Verve

Post by angelsighs »

I'm always up for some Verve gossip. they always seemed so damned dysfunctional. imagined if they'd capitalised on the momentum of Urban Hymns properly. I would read that biography but all Jazz's other clients look a bit naff!

on the subject of Verve influences, I was listening to the first Funkadelic album the other night and there was a song where a punchy chord sequence (not the lead lick which I know comes from Aphrodite's Child) sounded VERY similar to the beginning of The Rolling People.. I'll have to check which song it is.
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