Spiritualized

I thought the second night was much better sound wise and also in terms of the performance. However, I enjoyed the first night more because of the audience's reaction. On the second night there were a couple of blokes several rows behind me who insisted on yammering on throughout the gig. To quote Jez Kerr from A Certain Ratio: "What is it about people in London and big mouths?". They only shut the f*ck up after the white noise meltdown at the end of Electricity. Bastards!!

In fairness the talking throughout the gig thing seems to happen everywhere these days so apologies to Londoners......

Some videos from last night someone has stuck up on Youtube:

Come Together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvTHwlO8esQ

I Think I'm In Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjRXogjKHLk

Electricity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhVZQFTGgRw

you're right, it's not just londoners, although in my experience there is a higher than average number of people-who-talk-through-gigs there.

I just don't get it. if I'm shelling out £30 and travelling several hours to see a gig, believe me when I say I'm going there to see the band. I guess if £30 is peanuts to you and you live just round the corner, you may have a different take on things, but still... it's just outright rude, both to paying punters like myself, but also (and most especially) to the band.

sigh.

anyway... as promised... copy of my recording of the first night is here... enjoy!

flac:
http://tapers.org/flac/drive1/spz2009-1 ... 061.flac16

mp3 zipfile:
http://tapers.org/mp3s/spz2009-10-12.dpa4061.mp3f.zip

stream:
http://tapers.org/mp3s/spz2009-10-12.dpa4061.mp3f.m3u

peace,
stephen

I thought the sound was poor. I felt unsatisfied afterwards. Also felt he could have move the start time forward and gave us a little more 'greatest hits' afterwards.
I enjoyed a nice crepe yesterday in Camden which failed to compensate. Was good to meet the cats from the board. Wish we could have spent some more time. I hope I remembered my manners when talking with you all.

Thanks for the recording, very nice!

evan:) wrote:

johnnyboy wrote:This was loaded up on the Primal Scream forum by Moggieboy. He says it's an amazing audience recording. I'll give it a go later at home.

http://rippedinglasgow.blogspot.com/200 ... en-we.html

WOW @ stay with me

I can only get the first zip file to work? the others have got nothing in! What I have heard sounds fantastic though! anyone else had any problems with it?

keep trying Simon, - all three links worked for me OK - but I did had a bit of trouble the first time when i tried with a download manager.

Another reivew >>> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 02722.html

Don't need to add much more to what's already been said here. Sound was definitely dodgy in places but gig was amazing & worth every penny of coming over from Ireland for it.

Btw, anyone catch the trumpet guy taking pictures during the show (tuesday night)? I didn't see it but my wife said that Jason stared at him at one stage! Uh-oh!

WOW that recording is class, thats the best LAGWAFIS I've ever heard, it brought tears to my eyes.

Im going to manchester and newcastle. Cant wait, I've only seen them once

So I'm back in the US of A. What a week.

Incredible nights, starting with the heads, who were wonderful (obviously). It was a brutal ride home on the tube/bus with my ears ringing.

Pretty much everything has been said about the two RFH shows. I would have to say they were the most "beautiful" shows I've witnessed, but not the best Spiritualized show (that one still goes to the secret show at the echo). The lights looked fantastic at almost every point. Sitting in the front of the rear stalls stage right the first night and center the second night, I could tell some sound differences which were disappointing, namely that I could barely hear the guitars because they were not being put through the PA much, but had my hair shifted by the french horn and bass because they were coming though loud. Talking to people in the front stalls, they say they couldn't hear anything but guitars. Either way I was not disappointed much. Still breathtaking at times (found myself crying at the end of "Cop Shoot Cop" on night 2). Simon already stated it, but the songs that I expected to be the best (title track, electricity, no god...) were ok, but the songs I thought weren't the strongest points of the album completely floored me--especially Stay With Me. Jesus Christ that was good.

Overall, an amazing experience. What made it for me was the fact that everyone on here that I met was incredibly nice and friendly. It was truly a pleasure.

Some differences between the nights/notes about the performance:
-The Kate vocal track was only at the beginning on the first night, but at both the beginning and end the second. Someone said it was there on the first night, but I'm about 99% I didn't hear it.
-I realized it on the flight back, but it was pretty much the LICD lineup (minus Thighpaul and with the new bassist). Tom Edwards did percussion (and looked like a mad man during the white noise bits) and John and Doggen had LICD-era haircuts. haha. I even went back and watched the LICD documentary narrated by Bobby G and I'm positive that choir director for both nights was used on the album, as well as some of the singers. We may need to double check this, but it is very interesting....especially when the encores for both nights was only "Out of Sight". I'm sure it wouldn't have been that hard to play a few more LICD songs, especially when the personnel already know the tunes!
-I have to say that I preferred the first night over the second, but both had their moments. The performance on the first was even throughout, whereas there were moments in the 2nd I thought were crap (microphone feedback, guitar problems, parts where J missed his cue, etc). However, the 2nd night had some incredible highs. J was screaming like a maniac and seemed to enjoy himself more.
-I thought the sax players were incredible. They used extended techniques like tongue-slapping and vox-sax (projecting your voice through the instrument with its tone, i think it's called that?). Does anyone know if these are the same two from the 120 Minutes/Peel Sessions performances?


PS: When people who were there are saying they don't remember what happened that night, they are talking about what we did after the show. Shit got crazy. Somehow we got into a night club. I'm still waiting for the pole-dancing pictures.

I am an expert pole dancer. Pictures cannot do it justice.

okay- I'm posting my thoughts on the 12/10 show without reading the rest of the thread, so I'm not swayed by anyone elses opinion.

For me it fell into the 'good but not great' category. Although it was always going to be of a certain level of quality, just because the album itself is so good, it didn't really have the extra zip/x factor that makes a gig amazing for me. It seemed to me that it was just ladies and gents performed live- nothing more, nothing less. Can't quite put my finger on it, but for me it seemed that they almost stuck to the album arrangements too much... There was no improv/chaos, no segues (apart from those of the album). I was worried about the bands lack of rehearsal time, and if anything they sounded kinda over-rehearsed- just playing the notes in the right place.

The sound mix was also less than ideal- all I could hear really was a combination of the percussionist, bass player, and the choir. The guitars were mixed way down low. Come Together sounded kinda limp, as did Out Of Sight...

thought Jasons singing was not great- I'm gonna put it down to nervousness..

also-special guests??- at a stretch that could apply to John Coxon?..

hope this doesn't sound all too negative. There were definite highlights- I liked the very rich/layered version of the title track (the percussionist working overtime on that one!), and the stretch of Electricity-Home Of The Brave-The Individual was really good- nice and loud and noisy,and the prominence of the choir on Home of the brave made me hear it in a new light (i never put much emphasis on the 'i believe it..' bit before but i found it quite moving).

I still enjoyed the whole event of the whole thing and that, but as a show it didn't touch the acoustic mainline shows i saw or the best of the A&E shows.

Monday


GREAT FUCKING NIGHT ALTOGETHER
bar it felt for me a little hurried, cant put my finger on it.


Loved "Stay with me"


MORE

Anyone help....

Tried the links from the Primal Scream forum multiple times and parts 2 and 3 just won't work - get an error message.

Would hugely appreciate either all of it or those bits which people have confirmed work plonked somewhere for me to nobble & burn for my girlfriend...

.... (and me - a little bit)

http://rippedinglasgow.blogspot.com/200 ... en-we.html

Did you try directly from here? It worked for me.

Try here - http://spiritualizedelectricmainline.blogspot.com/

or here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P1IP7FFK

toomilk wrote:-I thought the sax players were incredible. They used extended techniques like tongue-slapping and vox-sax (projecting your voice through the instrument with its tone, i think it's called that?). Does anyone know if these are the same two from the 120 Minutes/Peel Sessions performances?

Thanks for that - was convinced I could hear voices/moans/shouts in some of the dense white noise parts but couldn't see anyone near a mic, just thought all the noise was just making me hear things.

Tufty wrote:Try here - http://spiritualizedelectricmainline.blogspot.com/

or here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P1IP7FFK

Thanks for this - now I've just got to keep clicking or refresh and wait to sign-up to a dime account. Sigh.

Managed to get Stephen's recording and it just confirms that it all really did happen.

I am still convinced that mirror ball fell down about 5 times during the strobe moments.

jesus son wrote:yet another new bass player

The last one was asked to leave.

He did backing vocals for the Blur gigs while he assumed Spiritualized were in down time.

The way I was told the story it was implied that the former was as a result of the latter.

As for the Monday gig, as people have said the sound was pretty turgid to start with. I thought until Electricity. Couldn't connect to the idea at all and wasn't sure if it was me, the sound, or the "play the album" concept. But after the sound was sorted the show was rivetting. Electric cherie!

ekewebb wrote:

jesus son wrote:yet another new bass player

The last one was asked to leave.

He did backing vocals for the Blur gigs while he assumed Spiritualized were in down time.

The way I was told the story it was implied that the former was as a result of the latter.

So he went to Glasto on a weekend off (so he thought) and got fired for it? Surely the fact he went on stage there is irrelevant?
I'd like to think there was a little more to it than that, presumably they had recording sessions pre-arranged or something.

Anyway, I quite like what the new guy is doing. And he wields a decent axe (hurrah), even though it was a bit boomy at RFH....

Hedspace wrote:Monday


GREAT FUCKING NIGHT ALTOGETHER
bar it felt for me a little hurried, cant put my finger on it.


Loved "Stay with me"


MORE

I'll second that, seemed bit rushed perhaps, could have done with a few more wig outs (if that's the expression) ! Stay with me was definately the highlight for me, was close to tears. I was lucky enough to go both nights, and although I think the second night sounded better, you can never replicate the excitement of seeing it for the first time, totally overwhelming. For or those with tickets for the upcoming shows, you are on for a treat. Roll on barbican!

Only now have the time to enter my ten penneths worth for the L&G shows.My lady and me went on the Monday night and I would say,on the whole, it was a greatly enjoyable experience.I would have to agree that it was not the best I've seen them(thats a lot of people on stage to all be on fire in unison) but saying that,it was good to hear the album whole from beginning to end.Tied up loose ends to whats we've heard and not live.Have to agree on what has been said on the sound.We were up on the left hand side stalls and the booming base was very noticeable a few times (can't remember where but sure its been mentioned already) and I would also say the mix could have been better.
I must say though, that for myself (cant vouch for others up there) being up in the rear of the side stalls I somehow felt strangely unattached from the whole experience and feel that if I were closer to front center stage it may have been up there with the best of them.At one point we even sat in two of the empty seats in the front stalls only to be quickly asked to move by the ushers.Grrr.This was at the end of "I think I'm in love" and I pointed out that if they were coming they would surely be here by now.
So to recap - not the best but still a massively enjoyable experience.Would I do it all over again.......................

You bet

Just listened to Tufty's superbly recorded bootleg and I'm kind of eating my words a bit.. i really do think it was the inconsistent sound that stopped the gig being a great one rather than just a good one. It seems from where Tufty was sitting the mix was much better... can actually hear the strings...

also realise now how much they extended the songs.. ladies and gents is 6-7 mins, I Think Im In Love is 11, Electricity is 7+ (longest one ever?), if only the sound was better (and LOUDER, I think even the noisy bits didn't have that 'umph' that needs to hit you) it could have been the utterly amazing gig I was expecting...

highlight for me is still the middle stretch from Electricity to The Individual- love the churning guitar loop that morphs into Home Of The Brave... and the "I believe it" from the choir..

have to agree the set still sounds a bit rushed and rough around the ages.. I'm sure the december gigs will iron out the kinks..

[\quote] however on a similar manner I'd like to identify a track from maybe ten minutes or so from stage time - a really soul type with a smooth voiced crooner with really spiky lyrics about getting his tremor pills out a box and his arms being useless (I can only vaguely remember these lyrics, could be way off!).[/quote]

That sounds fantastic! anyone got any ideas what track it might be?

that song might be
Lee Hazlewood
My Autumns done come



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXDx_dDnK08

Kiss all the pretty ones goodbye
Give everyone a penny that cry
You can throw all my tranquil' pills away
Let my blood pressure go on its way
For my autumn's done come
My autumn's done come. Done come

Let those 'I-don't-care-days' begin
I'm tired of holdin' my stomach in
No more slinky folk dollars for me
I'll take Sears & Roebuck dollars gladly
For my autumn's done come
My autumn's done come. Done come

Bring me water short and scotch tall
A big long black cigar that ain't all
Hang me a hammock between two big trees
Leave me alone, damned! Let me do as I please
For my autumn's done come
My autumn's done come. Done come

Awesome cheers! I was figuring it was maybe a Lee Hazlewood or Tom Waits tune, I've never really gotten into either artist so had no idea where to begin looking!

ekewebb wrote:

jesus son wrote:yet another new bass player

The last one was asked to leave.

He did backing vocals for the Blur gigs while he assumed Spiritualized were in down time.

The way I was told the story it was implied that the former was as a result of the latter.

But wasn't that the chap who played the nice Fender Jag Bass? Since him there was another one who played with them at Nottingham (and I'm guessing the festival dates in the summer) and now the current incumbent? Too many bizarre gardening accidents.

toomilk wrote:I even went back and watched the LICD documentary narrated by Bobby G and I'm positive that choir director for both nights was used on the album, as well as some of the singers. We may need to double check this, but it is very interesting....especially when the encores for both nights was only "Out of Sight". I'm sure it wouldn't have been that hard to play a few more LICD songs, especially when the personnel already know the tunes!

exactly my thoughts also. i think heard coxon's guitar doing the solo in "out of sight" on the first night really quiet and the mastermind at the mixer disk sensed it after a second or two and he found the right line and pushed coxon's guitar audiable for everybody. thats what it felt like on balcony.
same personnel. could be, could be. and among that same personnel was john coxon who did the solo for "out of sight". surely, doggen could have done it also, but thats not how it was made and now as coxon was there, so they did it. i still like that song. i mean shortest ways of the short talk is to is about is liking it. can't compose spaced out treatise about here. not now.

during the second show i think i heard coxon's guitar overall much more. was this the case that maybe he was not heared so clearly in the first night, that the sound engineer was afraid, that he might mess up. only cuz he is just back. his skills are amazing. weird thing that i noticed was that when previosly jason has always stand as straightest staight, then doggen jamming around more freely. but this time doggen was "staring" at coxon and looking what he is doing and not doing anything at all by himself. could that be an outcome of a mirror effect - in case that you have not been on the stage together for so long and then you just be more careful and watch the other guitar player playing out his "diseases". both are excelent guitarist, but after a so long time it seemed that doggen was so overorderly decent, that that bugged me. maybe a tie was missing......

and sitting in the last row on the last balcony can also make you see the light show from another perspective. of course they want to shine it as high as possible and not to shine to someones eye, but Barry, Jane and i were close to another galaxy. that was the highest gig on earth. you know the lines: step eight - fuck being straight.

good to hear some songs finally played on stage - "stay with me" and "cool waves". it wasn't that hard, jason, wasn't it? thank you.

what i really hope is, that now that those songs are practiced also, then maybe we can hear a resurrection of some songs for the live setlist. maybe something will stick. but then there is the talk about preporations for the new album. surely new songs will intervine......

and, HELLO everyone, wasn't it good for once to have show without "walking with jesus". amen.

jason your voice in top form now - keep it going!

empty seats - come one, of course all the grasshoppers in the black market thought that they will get some nice juice from it. i'm sure that there were about 0,91% of first comers to the shows. rest were fans knowing what to expect (or less of a fan, but still far be totally outsiders). and if you were dissapointed, then harsh news is that life goes on, can't expext all the time for a white noise overdose with hundreds of stobos. i'm even that weirdo, that sayes that yeah lets bring on some more acoustic mailline. i'f fine if that will have in 2019.
who has been treading water????
but i'm so curious and hungry for the future, that i will not stop humming "baby i'm just a fool" until the next gig. but thats nowhere to find for me.....

Back home in Vancouver now. What a trip.

I cried the first night several times, which I don't believe I've ever done at a gig before. Was sitting next to Modlab and his wife, very glad to have met you two (and for the arrangements for the second night).

Sound-wise, my only complaint was that I found the bass too loud, as said, but the booming bass absolutely made the second night encore for me, totally transformed my perception of the song to have that heavy anchor.

Generally, my feeling was as one of those articles said: not knowing what song is coming next is a substantial loss. When they dropped LAGWAFIS mid-set last tour was insanely thrilling. Knowing each coming song loses something important with an artist with a catalogue as varied and amazing as J's. Also, I found that the orchestra effect sacrificed some tightness (or my perception of tightness, more likely). Having the sound filled out to that degree rounded some edges that maybe were better off jagged.

Having said that, I think the arrangements for the songs were brilliant. The extended endings that several songs had, with new build-ups and break-downs, were utterly thrilling. And I think the first night version of Cop Shoot Cop was the best version of that song I've heard, and I want that song played at my funeral, so that should put my complaints in perspective.

"Stay with me..." Fuck. I was singing that for days.

The mug was the best item on sale, and the cheapest. Lazy design on the hoodies, IMO.

Cheers, London.

I've just managed to get some stall tickets for the Thursday Barbican show. <3
There's still some stalls left on the Barbican website for both days....

A very, very late appraisal...
Went on the 1st night.
Obviously great to see the album played out with full on backing. Did a great job with the subtle extensions on some of the songs. Good to see that the overkill on the strobe was condensed into just Electricity and CSC freak out. Meant it could be enjoyed rather than feared! Saw them at Shepherd's Bush once and the thing was on even between songs. Left the building on that occasion barely able to walk!!! Bit disappointed with the one song encore, but was a great performance so forgiven.
As mentioned by many, Bass was way to loud, although the tone was almost identical to the recording so maybe it was more intentional than we imagine. Jason's guitar too quiet. First time I've experienced bad sound at that venue. Not the bands fault i guess.

Took the missus along and as we left she drew a few looks as she said a bit too loud..."Yeah it was alright, but I wouldn't have come along if you hadn't paid. I'd pay to watch Pete Kember any day though. He's soooooooo much better!"
Everyone likes SPZ for their own reasons and mine is to follow the carrer of one of the Spacemen. It's great when Jason pulls a 'You Lie You Cheat' out of the bag as the influence of those days in clearly evident. But as I walked back to the car away from all the pomp, hallelujahs and 35 quid tickets, I realized just how much i preffer the sweaty venue with crude light show and Vox repeater pedals, screaming wah's and droning feedback. Kember knows how to do that so much better. And it's usually about six quid a pop!

A feature on playing albums live http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oc ... lbums-gigs
A rather rubbishy review: http://www.musicomh.com/music/gigs/spir ... 2_1009.htm

'[Jason's] trusty Apple laptop nearby'? what's all that about? I didn't see any sign of a lap top, and I can't quite imagine it.

After having a few days to think about the show, I think that one of the things I really appreciated was that it was such an uplifting show. There was a lot more warmth in the songs than on the original album, and considering many of the original songs are pretty sad i think that it was quiet an achievement. I've always been a fan of happy upbeat Spiritualized rather than Maudlin spiritualized, and they used to be able to achieve this really well in the early days, - Feel so sad for instance is sad, but ultimately uplifting, but in recent years I think that had been lost a little, so it was great to see such a positive show. Or Maybe that was just all the red wine I'd enjoyed, I dunno.

I don't think the prescribed set list lost much of the excitement - Their normal gig set list is normally disappointingly static, so those moments when you get a song you are not expecting are sadly pretty rare anyway.

There was a macbook but it was with the keyboards, not near J

went tuesday the 13th to the rfh.

2 words

total bliss

i was too late to come to here. there was most words for two shows already.

awesome shows for me.

on that day, i woke with big expect and jet lag.
the moment that i heard an opening sound and beautiful voices by choir,
it was much better than my expected.(base did not yet roar!)
the stopper of my lacrimal gland was broken.
the beauty and white noise on "All of my Thoughts",
and heavy roll of drums on "Home of the Brave".
i was overwhelmed. yes, i cried.

both night was splendid. maybe the second one was more better.
not stood, not jumped and not danced. it's my regret. i think that not a few people wanted to do it.
If i am possible, December, Possibly.

i'm still disappointed to "ticket worries" which passed.(there was no problem for me. but, i think not OK.)
and if there is the reason of these empty seats for there, i feel exasperating.

anyway, i feel that it was luxurious two days for me.
hey, the midnight street corner drunkards, we were the best!

mn_spi, that was me and my friend Troy that you helped out with tickets for the second night. Thank you so much for that, and please say hello to your wife.

I thought it was pretty amazing to be at a show where so many people were crying.

I have to admit that I'd been bitching to myself about too loud bass and a bit too "well-made" sound production blah blah blah.
But after I came back home, have listened to those great recordings over and over again. And realize that I saw the shows, but missed most of them.
What fantastic shows they were!　My highlight is the flow, Home Of The Brave brightness melting into The Individual beautiful abstract and going off solemnly Broken Heart. I really appreciate the brilliant "George Mitchell"s on this board.
Whether you could or couldn't witness Octobers, must go to Decembers, if possible. (Barbican have better sound system than RFH, don't they?) And PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE record both nights for this poor little Japanese sake.

runcible wrote: Robotoilet - sorry we didn't speak but I didn't know who you were until after.

I have to apologize about that. I was so shy that I couldn't introduce myself or talk to all of you. But really pleased to be with you guys. Maybe next time (LICD entirety???), I will talk a lot more and get over photophobia, M! (Why on earth did I make my plural appearances in your photos? )

Regarding the Seetickets worries, and this will be the last I speak of them, I was utterly shocked at how loose the tickets were handled at the venue. When I arrived at RFH Monday just half past 5 pm (and it was empty), I went up to the counter where there was an older man just coming from behind the counter. He continued walking toward the toilet across the way. I stood there in front of 100s of envelopes sitting out on the counter full of everyone's tickets. When he returned, I asked for mine by giving him my name. That was it, no ID, no credit card, nothing was asked for. As soon as I had my tickets, off he went again. I could have swiped them all With all the months of ticket hold back, WTF But in hind sight, it was far better than what could have happened to everyone, eh

Took my ID and credit card and I got the tickets. Funny thing is that the tickets wern't bought by me. Any ID will do, doesnt matter who's it is.

The ticket person gave someone else's including mine. Really loose!


M

Hey, nearly a month later and I still have not replied to this.

runcible wrote:What's really annoying is the sound obviously was really good for some people. The RFH is designed for great sound all over but it didn't happen like that on Monday... The higher the better it seems (in many ways...).

I think that might be it. Having a top centre balcony position meant that not only was it a very high show indeed but that I could also hear really full, balanced out mix of sound - strings on the left, choir on the right and everything else battling out centre. I thought is sounded great -

This may have been though, on reflection, due to Veiko's incredibly potent Estonian liqueur....cheers again!

Ultimately, I thought it was a superb couple of nights - a really beautiful, celebratory, hallucinatory event. Great to meet so many of you! Shame there was not more time to be had getting trashed...

'Electricity' on the second night was one of the finest, craziest and maddest things i've ever witnessed. Totally unhinged - and it just kept building up! At one point it was like staring into time itself!

'I Think I'm In Love' was just very, very good indeed...amazing. Like others here it was the unexpected moments that really did it...the extended finale to 'All Of My Thoughts' springs to mind.

And just hearing that title song with the full works behind it was...glorious!

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/116 ... london-uk/

Popmatters have posted a review of the first night... bit after the fact now isn't it?

Today I was horrified to learn my bootleg of this show is now corrupt beyond playing. Is there a kind soul out there who could share a copy with me? I was there and it was the gig of my life.

The Kwisatz Haderach wrote:Today I was horrified to learn my bootleg of this show is now corrupt beyond playing. Is there a kind soul out there who could share a copy with me? I was there and it was the gig of my life.

Here you go, Tufty's recording of the Monday night: https://ufile.io/5y1m4

It's lower than 320 so if anyone has an upgrade, that would be appreciated.

Thank you very much!

Here's the Tuesday @ 320:

CD 1
http://www50.zippyshare.com/v/mP05fgU5/file.html

CD 2
http://www113.zippyshare.com/v/uKqPQala/file.html

As per usual, Zippyshare occasionally opens a random link in a new tab on first attempt to download - simply close it straight away and try again. Don't know why it does it - sorry!!!

Brilliant, thank you very very much!

So, to be honest, I didn’t realize this forum had survived, and started investigating when looking for a show time prediction for Vancouver tonight. i primarily associate this board with these shows (as that was what my own activity here), and it’s weird to reach back through time like this. i remember realizing as the show was starting that i was crying and modlab, next to me, was crying, and it was fantastic to share that with a stranger. i hope you all are as well as can be hoped, ten years and a pandemic later.