New turntable and record collecting in general

mojo filters · Post by **mojo filters** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:47 am

runaway wrote:Gear sluts. I love it.

Hahaha ... if this really was Gearslutz there'd be loads of posts from people who know nothing about turntables arguing that whatever type of turntable had just been purchased was the wrong one, and that a different turntable (which they've never actually used but read about on the web) would have been a better choice

olan · Post by **olan** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:33 am

mojo filters wrote:
runaway wrote:Gear sluts. I love it.
Hahaha ... if this really was Gearslutz there'd be loads of posts from people who know nothing about turntables arguing that whatever type of turntable had just been purchased was the wrong one, and that a different turntable (which they've never actually used but read about on the web) would have been a better choice

Clearly the LP12 is where it is at....

mojo filters · Post by **mojo filters** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:40 pm

olan wrote:
mojo filters wrote:
runaway wrote:Gear sluts. I love it.
Hahaha ... if this really was Gearslutz there'd be loads of posts from people who know nothing about turntables arguing that whatever type of turntable had just been purchased was the wrong one, and that a different turntable (which they've never actually used but read about on the web) would have been a better choice
Clearly the LP12 is where it is at....

My dog's mother's owner's hairdresser's wife's vajazzler once fell asleep on a train and ended up in Glasgow, so has excellent authority to speak with specialist knowledge about Linn turntables, and reliably informs me that the £25 Chinese-made Sansui Shittogram comes from the same factory that makes all the parts used in the LP12!

It has actually been proven to sound better, according to my neighbour's fluffer's colonic irrigator, who heard evidence of extensive testing from a bloke drinking heavily at 11am in Wetherspoons.

This expert advised me to swap my own Arcam CD player for an Aiwa Arse-o-gram he found at my local tip. It doesn't even play CDs, but these experts tell me that it will sound much better regardless. If I tidy it up with a few coats of tartan paint then mount it on a pair of sky-hooks, the performance is apparently even further enhanced. I was very impressed, you don't get that calibre of expert advice from browsing internet forums.

davedecay · Post by **davedecay** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:02 am

pull the other one!

Post by **BzaInSpace** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:56 pm

johnnyboy wrote:So much better than my old USB turntable. I'm a convert..

Hahaha... that's still my record player of choice! ION right? With the occasional new stylus and a record brush, amped through ageing Sony speakers, I think it sounds awesome.

Not at all jealous of your awesome-sounding system of course...

Post by **MODLAB** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:13 pm

johnnyboy wrote:The Project Debut Carbon is now up and running with the Project Preamp and it's sounding wonderful. Really happy I took the plunge into the world of a proper turntable. First on the platter was the Paris Texas soundtrack and it was full of depth and space and sounds I had never picked up on before. Marvellous! So much better than my old USB turntable. I'm a convert.

Road tested it some more last night with the Funkadelic debut, Wooden Shjips 'Lights Out' Peaking Lights remix 7", Sly Stone 'There's A Riot Goin' On', Opal 'Early Recordings', Asphodells 'One Minute Silence (Shjips remix).......all sounded fantastic and had me smiling like a happy turntable man.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. Sundays were made for vinyl.

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:47 am

BzaInSpace wrote:
johnnyboy wrote:So much better than my old USB turntable. I'm a convert..

Hahaha... that's still my record player of choice! ION right? With the occasional new stylus and a record brush, amped through ageing Sony speakers, I think it sounds awesome.

Not at all jealous of your awesome-sounding system of course...

ION indeed. I loved mine too, and the sound produced kept me happy for many years, but the time came for a sonic upgrade. I won't be chucking out the ION though, oh no, reckon I'll keep it for my daughter to play around with when she's a bit older. Not with my records though!

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:35 pm

A pair of Yamaha NS-10 Studio speakers have just arrived in our house totally free and still in their box

Question i have is are they suitable for home stereo listening? If yes, is it just a case of hooking up to a standalone amp? As I think I have a Sony amp laying around somewhere that I could use. Plus, what cable would I use as there are none with the speakers. Apologies for dumb questions but I am pretty useless with this sort of thing.

Cheers.

olan · Post by **olan** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:56 pm

sunray wrote:A pair of Yamaha NS-10 Studio speakers have just arrived in our house totally free and still in their box

Question i have is are they suitable for home stereo listening? If yes, is it just a case of hooking up to a standalone amp? As I think I have a Sony amp laying around somewhere that I could use. Plus, what cable would I use as there are none with the speakers. Apologies for dumb questions but I am pretty useless with this sort of thing.

Cheers.

These are decent speakers Joycey. See here for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_NS-10.

They are pretty old so check that the drivers haven't dried out. As for cable, you can start with bellwire bought from your local hardware shop if you like. If there is a Richer sounds near you they have decent speaker cable for buttons that both my girls use. You can just hook them up to your Sony amp and off you go. If your amp has tone controls you'll probably need to turn the treble down a bit, or turn up the bass (or both). Other than that, at £0, they are some of the best speakers in terms of value for money

mojo filters · Post by **mojo filters** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:11 am

sunray wrote:A pair of Yamaha NS-10 Studio speakers have just arrived in our house totally free and still in their box

Question i have is are they suitable for home stereo listening? If yes, is it just a case of hooking up to a standalone amp? As I think I have a Sony amp laying around somewhere that I could use. Plus, what cable would I use as there are none with the speakers. Apologies for dumb questions but I am pretty useless with this sort of thing.

Cheers.

I would not expect them to make satisfactory home stereo loudspeakers, unless you value a phase-coherent loudspeaker over one with a broad and even frequency response (especially getting down below ~100Hz). They have many notable characteristics, including uneven freq response most noticeable around the "presence" area from 1 - 4 kHz. They also have many strengths, notably their accuracy in coherent time reproduction.

I think it's fair to say their popularity grew from their small size (allowing producers and engineers to have a consistent reference source when they travelled between studios) and relatively low price, as much as their unique qualities related to their capacity for accurate audio reproduction.

The best analogy is to consider them in the same light as Shure SM57 and 58 mics. Everyone knows they have an uneven frequency response, because the original design (essentially unchanged today, even with modern Beta models that simply change the original cardioid response pattern to hypercardioid) worked well with old 1960's PA such as Vocalmaster or WEM column loudspeakers. The presence peak of a SM57/58 mic (same capsule, different filter, shield etc) benefited both human voices and commonly mic'd instruments such as snare drums. Nowadays that mic is popular because it's a known quantity, and every decent live sound tech knows what to dial down via 31-band GEQ or parametric EQ, to even out its response.

The same presence peak is easily seen on a graph of either the original Fletcher-Munson curve, or the modern generically named "equal-loudness contour". The closest equivalent loudspeaker is the old BBC LS3/5 monitor, made by many companies such as Rogers.

NS10s made their name due to the way the LF driver/woofer has an unusual stiffness, added to the normal characteristic of sealed box / infinite baffle design. The latter is inevitably superior in terms of faithful reproduction, as it avoids the phase-inverted character of bass reflex designs around their port tuning frequency, or the (relatively less intrusive, taking account of wavelength lengths) inherent delay of transmission-line loading (used in loudspeakers from acclaimed companies such as PMC, whilst the highly efficient Tom Danley designed Tapped Horn pro-audio subwoofer uses an inversion of this technique producing a remarkably efficient horn-loaded design).

There is a significant error in the linked Wikipedia article. It states the NS10 went out of production due to a lack of the specific wood pulp used to form the cones of the LF driver. The original design didn't use pulp formed into a paper cone, rather used actual formed paper to make the LF cone - hence its inherent stiffness, from which many unique qualities (both desirable and undesirable) are directly related to. The article does subsequently correctly describe the unusual manufacturer process of the LF driver.

Whilst sealed box / infinite baffle loudspeaker designs inherently contain a natural high-pass filter, the beneficial effect is that in terms of phase coherence - they behave much more accurately than similar sized bass-reflex designs in the time domain. The "group delay" characteristic of a bass-reflex design is thankfully absent in designs using infinite baffle loading.

All the best and worst characteristics can be seen with a measurement system such as Rational Acoustics Smaart, SysTune or similar programs using FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) measuring techniques - basically anything capable of measuring the loudspeaker's Transfer Function - a simple and easily interpreted graph that plots frequency on the horizontal axis (in Hertz) with the left hand vertical axis representing amplitude (measured in deciBels/dB) and phase (represented in degrees from 0° to 360°) on the right hand vertical axis.

To use the pair you have - ensure they are orientated so as the writing under the HF driver is horizontal. Connect them to whatever amplifier you have using the thickest copper speaker cable you have. If you only have bell-wire look at online shops like CPC or Studiospares for cheap copper loudspeaker cable. NS10s don't normally need any costly termination - install-spec bare ends should suffice.

Given you state these are in new condition and still boxed - unless they are the original vertically-oriented hi-fi model, the subsequent design revision of the passive crossover network should be sufficient to tame excess treble. Obviously the grilles fitted should not be removed. The old stories about using tissue paper as a clumsy low-pass filter should be ignored - the number of reflections, secondary arrivals and other undesirable artifacts that result produce an undesirable comb-filter effect. If you find the treble too bright - add a modest HF shelf filter to reduce it if needs be; the use of toilet paper as a rudimentary HF shelving filter are old and anecdotal. Every studio I've visited with NS10s had no such filter cludges, but any adjustment to HF brightness was dealt with using accurate electrical / electronic techniques.

Once you've established the correct orientation, try and mount it on something close to the meter bridge of an old large frame analogue console. This provides half-space loading which reinforces the low and low-mid frequencies missing when this box is measured in an anechoic chamber.

To properly understand why Yamaha NS10 variants became standards in terms of near-field studio monitoring, start by reading this link, which has far more information than I can give (without sounding very dull and using many unnecessarily-complicated long words).

Further reading of this fascinating research paper gives good insight into the true value of Yamaha NS10 loudspeakers. If you want a realistic monetary value, the 2nd gen (horizontal orientation model) with the "M" suffix go for £200 minimum on eBay. Even a less desirable model should reach close to that amount, or may exceed it - the most important thing to check is that all drivers are original and there are no faults such as cold solder joints on the passive crossover circuit. If all that checks out fine (easy to measure resistance etc with a cheap digital multimeter) you're good to go.

The more modern NS10 MT model is a significant revision of the original design. It utilizes the extended frequency response of a bass reflex design. This gives it a more conventional degree of loudspeaker bass extension, but loses the important phase coherence of the original sealed box / infinite baffle design, as the extra bass that comes from the acoustic coupling of the direct driver output summing with a 180° phase shifted port tuning output. Whilst this may be a criticism in the case of the NS10 as a high fidelity loudspeaker speaker, the bass reflex design is used on 99% of all loudspeakers marketed to both the studio monitor and hi-fi sectors (they are the same markets, but manufacturers differentiate to increase profits and give false logic to Gearslutz who are better at bickering than actually making music).

Assuming you don't have an old large format studio recording console as part of the furnishings in your house, you really should experiment with half and quarter load positioning to best bring out low frequencies (ie around 100Hz and below). Placement really does play an important factor in making these cabs sound good!

angelsighs · Post by **angelsighs** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:21 pm

Okay so it looks like I may be doing the inevitable and taking the plunge into vinyl myself soon.
To cut a long story slightly short, my brother bought an old and run down (but very classic and expensive in its time) turnable from an auction and took it as a challenge to get it back up and running- if he managed it, he was going to give it to me (I think he just likes a challenge, he wasn't that bothered about the actual player). After a lot of work, it's up and running but unfortunately not playing at the right speed. so near but so far.

The thing is, this has planted the idea in my head now. and I'd been kind of thinking about making the move for a while already. I don't think I'll go crazy on vinyl, just buy albums that I think are worthy and also try a little project of maybe just trying to get my Top 20 albums of all time or something.

Anyway, is the advice initially given on this thread still valid? I I've googled the Rega P1 and it seems to be being mentioned a lot as a good entry level which gives quality above its price point.

luckily I already have a pretty decent amp and speakers for playing CDs.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of other questions.. I don't even know what a cartridge is (approach this from the angle of me being a total ignoramus..). and whether it's better to buy recent reissues or originals (isn't it too much of a ballache to worry about the quality/wear and tear on originals? apart from looking to see if it's scratched to high heaven, not how else i'd tell..)

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:01 pm

Wooohooooo!!!! I knew we would wear you down eventually Sighs! I've got some Drone Rock Records vinyl with your name on

Well, I've got the RP1 and I'm pretty satisfied with it. Yes you could invest in a much better player but, as an entry level player, its a good bet. My one bit of advice is, if you go for it, to get the performance pack (better needle, slip mat and belt) for an extra £80. If you've already got a pretty good amp/speaker set up then you should be ready to rock with the RP1.

I've been thinking of upgrading at some point though and loving the look of the new Rega Planar 2.

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:21 am

Jon,

What amplifier are you using? Do you know if it has a phono stage (not just a line level input marked 'phono'). If the amp has a phono stage then you need to find out if it is Moving Magnet (MM) or Moving Coil (MC) type before you do anything as this will determine the cartridge you chose. MM type cartridges are typically cheaper and had a replaceable stylus. MC cartridges are typically more expensive and need to be completely replaced or rebuilt once they are worn out.

If your amp does not hav a phono stage then you will need to get one. They start from about £75 new and can be bought to handle MM, MC or both. After this, there is the choice of deck, and as Adam says Rega are excellent, as are Pro-ject. Personally, I would surf around the various hi fi dealers and see what is available second hand and ex-demo. Summer is the best time to buy hi fi and most dealers have heavy discounts in place. It is also worth a look at the classified sections of places like Pink Fish Media and/or Hi Fi Wigwaw. You should be able to get a good starter system in place for very little money if you take your time and buy carefully.

Aquarian-Time · Post by **Aquarian-Time** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:49 pm

Yep echo Olans comments. Project is an excellent entry level good quality turntable, I upgraded my Cartridge a few months ago and the difference is startling. I spent les than £250 on a the turntable and then spent 80 odd quid on a new cartidge (all installed and set up for me by the nice chap who Olan has spent plenty with in the past @ Acoustica in Chester) The cartidge effectively doubled the value (in sound terms)

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:29 pm

Just remember that you are buying and listening to records, not 'vinyls'.

olan · Post by **olan** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:19 pm

sunray wrote:Just remember that you are buying and listening to records, not 'vinyls'.

Good point, although album, e.p., and single are acceptable too.

I've not owned a CD player for years, preferring to use a NAS for storing rips as FLACs and playing the music via a streamer. After a recent software upgrade on my streamer TIDAL became available. I'm really enjoying access to such a huge library of lossless music. I have to say that I'm buying relatively few records these days, all of it on boutique labels like Polytechnic Youth, Drone Rock, or Cardinal Fuzz or via Bandcamp. The recent huge jumps in the price of new and second hand records, coupled with massive hikes in shipping costs has pissed me off a bit. Hopefully, it will all settle down and the hipsters will move on to the next big thing. As I've been buying records for 40 years I can't see myself stopping anytime soon, but I wouldn't want to be starting out with the intention of catching up on the whole SP3 back catalogue ( with offshoots bands of course). That would be scarily expensive

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:56 pm

Not sure if this goes both ways but buying vinyl from the UK and having it shipped to the US on Amazon UK has proven to be extremely reasonable. Either they haven't caught on shipping an LP costs more than $4 or they just don't care.
I just got my Pete Bassman Lp today for just over 14 quid shipped to Detroit.

On another note about record collecting......
Those of you who are FB friends with me know but yesterday I plugged a hole in my record collection after 40 years of looking.
Original 1968 UK Rolling Stones- Beggars Banquet mono LP. Not easy to find over here and I have never seen one on several trips to the UK. Ironic that I found it in a local record shop that housed my last record shop location. The record is a strong VG and it sounds amazing. Did a little too much celebrating last night but well worth it.

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:43 am

spzretent wrote:Those of you who are FB friends with me know but yesterday I plugged a hole in my record collection after 40 years of looking.
Original 1968 UK Rolling Stones- Beggars Banquet mono LP. Not easy to find over here and I have never seen one on several trips to the UK. Ironic that I found it in a local record shop that housed my last record shop location. The record is a strong VG and it sounds amazing. Did a little too much celebrating last night but well worth it.

Even after all these years, there is nothing quite like the feeling of getting your hands on one of the long sought after records you've been hunting for! Congrats!

Post by **spzretent** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:40 pm

Correct. That fact is lost on most of my friends who just "don't get it".
I could have picked one up on line but they start in the $200 range so someone in this shop either made a mistake or they forgot to put a 1 or 2 in front of the $75 price tag. The way this shop prices rare vinyl it may have been a 3 they forgot which makes it all that much sweeter.
I actually thought they were asking $75 for a standard US Beggars Banquet stereo LP(which sell for $20 and up in great shape). Glad I had them take it off the wall so I could take a closer look.

The Dr · Post by **The Dr** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:49 pm

Vinyl buyers have been revealed as lonely, middle-aged introverts according to a new study by YouGov the looked into the demographics of vinyl buyers in 2016.

YouGov’s research cites that the majority of vinyl buyers are aged between 45 and 54, with 18 to 24-year-olds least likely to buy their albums on wax. A US study last year claimed under-25's to be the biggest buyers.

66% of vinyl enthusiasts revealed that they couldn’t get through the day without listening to music, compared to 49% of UK adults in general. 59% of record buyers said that downloading music illegally is wrong.

56% of them prefer to keep their feelings to themselves, with 69% saying that they enjoy being alone. Two-thirds (68%) of vinyl buyers say they enjoy seeing their favourite artists live (compared to 47%) and are more likely to be happy to spend money to support their preferred acts (21% compared to 9%).

It was recently revealed that David Bowie's 'Blackstar' is the best selling vinyl record of the year so far.

The late music icon's final album was released on his 69th birthday (January and two days before his death. According to data published by The Vinyl Factory, it has been purchased on vinyl 57,000 times so far in 2016.

Bowie beat Adele's '25' to the top spot, which was also the best selling vinyl album of 2015, selling 116,000 copies last year. So far in 2016, '25' has shifted 36,000 vinyl copies

sounds like yougov read/watched high fidelity

olan · Post by **olan** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:57 pm

spzretent wrote:Correct. That fact is lost on most of my friends who just "don't get it".
I could have picked one up on line but they start in the $200 range so someone in this shop either made a mistake or they forgot to put a 1 or 2 in front of the $75 price tag. The way this shop prices rare vinyl it may have been a 3 they forgot which makes it all that much sweeter.
I actually thought they were asking $75 for a standard US Beggars Banquet stereo LP(which sell for $20 and up in great shape). Glad I had them take it off the wall so I could take a closer look.

This type of win, which happens so rarely these days, is one of the joys of collecting records. It is easy to fill these gaps by fring ££ or $$ at Discogs, eBay or the like if you have the money. It is much more satisfying to happen across a record you've been searching for years to find at a bargain price. If your memory is as bad as mine there is a good chance it will go on the shelves and you'll forget about it. Finding the particular record again when looking for something to play can bring childishly large amounts of 'satisfaction flashback' on a regular basis.

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:46 pm

Man, I wish I had more time to get to record stores. Sadly, 99% of my record shopping is done online due to the fact that work/family/band obligations mean that I have virtually no time to make it out to stores. Still, I found a near mint copy of Lee Hazlewood's Cowboy In Sweden on Discogs last year and was absolutely thrilled to add that to my collection. I know what it's like to score a long sought after LP.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:16 pm

olan wrote:I have to say that I'm buying relatively few records these days, all of it on boutique labels like Polytechnic Youth, Drone Rock, or Cardinal Fuzz or via Bandcamp.

Why, thanks for the mention my good man

olan wrote:The recent huge jumps in the price of new and second hand records, coupled with massive hikes in shipping costs has pissed me off a bit. Hopefully, it will all settle down and the hipsters will move on to the next big thing. As I've been buying records for 40 years I can't see myself stopping anytime soon, but I wouldn't want to be starting out with the intention of catching up on the whole SP3 back catalogue ( with offshoots bands of course). That would be scarily expensive

Couldn't agree more. I've only been seriously into records for the last 5 years or so but, in that time, I've seen a massive increase in the price of both new and old records as well as shipping costs (it is now common for p&p from the US to be higher than the price of the record for instance). I remember when I first got back into this record collecting game and trying to track down some Super Furry Animals vinyl and being put off by the £50-£60 price tag for second hand copies of Guerrilla and Rings Around The World....they regularly fetch double that now. Which brings us back to Angelsighs point about going for the original pressings or a reissue (one of the first questions I remember asking on here too when I started record collecting again).

niamhm · Post by **niamhm** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:16 pm

Got myself a Rega1 with upgrade fitted about a yr ago and very happy with it, what I`m not so happy about is the increasing number of purchases/ pressings that are proving frustratingly less than perfect or anywhere near that in fact, culminating with the recent album by The Myrrors which was so bad it had to go back to Piccadilly, side two was unlistenable, for an album where atmosphere is a lot, the continuous pops, clicks and surface noise was unbearable, not just underground stuff as well, some very annoying issues with recent BJM & Underworld purchases as well, just putting that out as its not a cheap game and in some places the quality control is certainly not what it should be.

angelsighs · Post by **angelsighs** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:49 pm

thanks for the advice everybody.. I am certainly not going to rush into this, gonna do some research to make sure I get the best results for my money (which on Olan's advice, will include checking my amp etc)
I've been lucky enough to receive a promotion at work recently... so luckily I will have a bit of extra cash in my pocket to do this right.. and what better treat to reward myself with, right?

semisynthetic · Post by **semisynthetic** » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:01 am

[quote="Laz69"][quote="spzretent"]Those of you who are FB friends with me know but yesterday I plugged a hole in my record collection after 40 years of looking.
Original 1968 UK Rolling Stones- Beggars Banquet mono LP. Not easy to find over here and I have never seen one on several trips to the UK. Ironic that I found it in a local record shop that housed my last record shop location. The record is a strong VG and it sounds amazing. Did a little too much celebrating last night but well worth it.

Even after all these years, there is nothing quite like the feeling of getting your hands on one of the long sought after records you've been hunting for! Congrats! - TWICE!

It is a great deal of fun to find that "one" disc; it STILL happens and I still feel like a kid! Out of nowhere a rarity or a sealed (spare) that adds to the collection and listening enjoyment. Some of the greatest "finds" were sealed or new in the Bargain Bin for $1; I would often buy up a box of "unknowns" and be amazed at what I'd missed, and search further! (semi).

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:37 pm

semisynthetic wrote:
Even after all these years, there is nothing quite like the feeling of getting your hands on one of the long sought after records you've been hunting for! Congrats! - TWICE!

It is a great deal of fun to find that "one" disc; it STILL happens and I still feel like a kid! Out of nowhere a rarity or a sealed (spare) that adds to the collection and listening enjoyment. Some of the greatest "finds" were sealed or new in the Bargain Bin for $1; I would often buy up a box of "unknowns" and be amazed at what I'd missed, and search further! (semi).

Have you checked your pm's?

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:05 pm

Here's a nerdy question for the record filers amongst you:

(which may well have been answered or discussed previously but I'm typing quick at work so can't browse through the history)

Do you file your records alphabetically and if so what do you do with those spineless 12" singles? Put them amongst the alpha-filed records or keep them separate?

My collection has grown a fair bit the last year after upgrading my turntable and speakers. Clicking and 'adding to cart' has become quite a habit, especially when the likes of Thee Oh Sees are moving onto their 3rd release this year already! The ever increasing pile on the floor needs filing away once I get a new tower storage unit from Ikea or something. At the moment my records are filed in a very loose genre order: indie-shoegaze-grunge all in a big batch, VU-garage-psych all in a big batch, funk and soul in a big batch.......you get the picture.........dance 12's all together, blah blah. Needs sorting better I reckon and seeing as my job title in life is a 'Document Controller' then I should be able to do a masterful/nerdy/OCD job of it.

Moving flat the start of Dec means I can get properly involved with it, probably when I should be helping my girlfriend find places for much more day to day items instead.

Aquarian-Time · Post by **Aquarian-Time** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:10 pm

I am fortunate enough to have my own room (basically the living room) as we had the house decorated and altered to bring the kitchen into a kitchen/living space which has meant I get all my won space !! Cd's have started to drift into boxes except for a few racks (ok 8 racks but it used to be 14) LP cubes are made by a guy in salford, he also makes my 7"racks too. Alphabetical for me, with the only difference is Earworm/deep distance/GPS/Polytechnic Youth/God Unknown are all seperately filed as I get every release and collect those. Room looking almost complete now (apart from the crap blue paint on the walls). Will take some snaps and get them on here later

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:11 pm

I posted a separate thread about this, but I figured I'd add it here, since it seems applicable. My very old (15 years?) Denon AV receiver (AVR-2105) died recently, forcing me to reassess my stereo. Since I run my turntable, Blu-ray player, cable and smart tv through my receiver, I decided to replace the old Denon with a new one (AVR-S510BT - reasonably priced at $279). This way, everything is running through one hub and I've plenty of left over inputs in case I need them in the future. Ultimately, I'd like to separate my turntable from the TV and get a nice tube-driven integrated amp, but I don't have the cash for that yet. I do have the cash for a phono preamp, though, which I had been considering for years, but never pulled the trigger on. Now is the time. Olan convinced me to go tube-based on the preamp and I ultimately went for the Pro-Ject Tube Box S, which was considerably more expensive than I had originally planned on at $449, but based on the research I've done, it should make a big difference. I'm going to receive this gear within the next few days and will get it all set up on Saturday. Pretty psyched. I'll report back.

Oh, in case anyone cares, here's the rest of my rig:

Turntable: Sansui SR-717 with a Grado Silver Prestige cartridge
Speakers: Precise 400BL (defunct offshoot of Onkyo)

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:59 pm

Got my new stereo rig up and running. Sounds fucking fantastic. I'm really happy. The phono preamp makes a huge difference and the receiver was quite easy to set up.

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:11 pm

Do any of you good chaps use a cork mat upon your turntables? My set up has been attracting a fair amount of static so I Googled it all and ended up buying a Project cork mat for £20. My turntable is a Project Debut Carbon. The mat came through the post on the weekend and my initial thought was "£20? For this flimsy thing?" It got some great reviews online so I thought I'd test it out. The surface feels a bit rough so wondered whether that was good against a precious bit of vinyl. The hole is too big for the spindle so it moves around a little bit, still have static going on plus the mat comes off each time I lift up a record. I've stuck my original felt mat back on instead. Just emailed the retailer to see about a replacement. Anyone got a positive story about the cork versus felt scene?

eelnekwah · Post by **eelnekwah** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:10 pm

I'd be interested in any advice you get concerning cork mats also Johnnyboy. Often pondered that one as well.
I have a Technics 1210 Mark 2 with the supplied rubber mat fitted , and some of my vinyl picks up a lot of static during play.
This even happens after wet washing in a pair of Knostis using L'Art du Son and purified water for washing and rinsing duties.
Rather annoying after going to the trouble of wet washing them

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:27 pm

It's a vinyl-care minefield out there I must say. Pretty sure I didn't have so many problems with vinyl back in the late 80's and 90's when I first started collecting. The past year I've had too many snap, crackle and pops with surface noise and what not so buying a "static free" cork mat was a first step solution. I've just bought a replacement stylus today as well (figuring a year or so was up on my current one where the turntable was bought 2nd hand via ebay).

eelnekwah · Post by **eelnekwah** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:02 pm

I hear you on the vinyl care minefield. No sooner do you get some (what seems like) good advice , some more comes along pretty soon trashing the previous advice. My motto :- if it looks like its damaging , steer clear.
But cork mats . Can only benefit..... right?

olan · Post by **olan** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:55 pm

@eelnekwah and @johnnyboy, there is only one way to get rid of static in my experience and that is to clean the offending LP with a proper wet cleaner/dryer and then re-sleeve the record in a new ant-static inner sleeve. FWIW I use one of these to clean the records:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moth-Vinyl-Rec ... B007QKD8GA

I bought mine second hand on eBay for about twice the price of a Knosti (which I had before and TBF while its better than nothing is not very good at all). You can also buy it in kit form to save on the £££. After cleaning, there is no point returning the record to the dirty inner sleeve, so shove it into one of these and put the whole lot into the old inner:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nagaoka-102-An ... ds=nagaoka

If you buy carefully the inners are always available for about £15 for 50 or much less if you buy in bulk, including delivery or cheaper if you use lower quality sleeves. This might seem like a load of fuss and useless expense, but (i) you can make unplayable records very playable again (unless they are scratched to pieces) which is great if you buy as much second hand vinyl as I do and (ii) you protect your very expensive new LPs. I have something approaching 1500 LPs and I would reckon the cost is about 20p extra per LP maximum, including sleeves, machine and cleaning fluid.

If you only have 50-100 LPs get them cleaned for you at your local specialist nerdy Hi Fi store who will do it for about £1 if you have a decent bundle of records and haggle hard/pretend you are interested in buying a top of the range Linn LP12.

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:51 am

Just ordered some of those anti-static sleeves, cheers. I'm not in the market for £350 cleaning machines though. The wet clean debate is one of the biggest vinyl-care minefields out there I reckon. Some swear by it, some say it's wrong, some use this, some use that. It's pretty crazy I must say. The amount of products out there is mind boggling. At home I have an anti-static brush, a stylus brush and a cloth wipe plus I recently bought some cleaner spray which came with a cheap looking cloth so have bought some lint free microfiber cloths instead. I've yet to have a proper go with the cleaner but one new album I did try it on still sounded crackly afterwards. Interestingly the Ortofon stylus care blurb says not to clean records with cleaning products but only to use demineralised water and dry with a cloth. A man can go crazy with all this and it's something I didn't do many years ago when buying and playing records, just used a cloth. My mate who is a avid collector, buys and sells, uses a cleaning machine every so often.

Still, thanks for the info though, much appreciated.

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:47 pm

johnnyboy wrote:Just ordered some of those anti-static sleeves, cheers. I'm not in the market for £350 cleaning machines though. The wet clean debate is one of the biggest vinyl-care minefields out there I reckon. Some swear by it, some say it's wrong, some use this, some use that. It's pretty crazy I must say. The amount f products out there is mind boggling. At home I have an anti-static brush, a stylus brush and a cloth wipe plus I recently bought some cleaner spray which came with a cheap looking cloth so have bought some lint free microfiber cloths instead. I've yet to have a proper go with the cleaner but one new album I did try it one still sounded crackly afterwards. Interestingly the Ortofon stylus care blurb says not to clean records with cleaning products but only to use demineralised water and dry with a cloth. A man can go crazy with all this and it's something I didn't do many years ago when buying and playing records, just used a cloth. My mate who is a avid collector, buys and sells, uses a cleaning machine every so often.

Still, thanks for the info though, much appreciated.

I wouldn't pay £350 for a record cleaning machine either. I bought mine through eBay for about £100 and even then I was thinking I should be buying more records with that money. However, it has proved money very well spent as I can buy the filthiest second hand vinyl secure in the knowledge that it will clean up significantly, and in most cases will be virtually noiseless when done. The Spin-Clean or Knosti don't appeal to me. While they are OK for the first handful of records, you end up trying to clean LPs with a container full of filthy fluid if you have a lot to do.

eelnekwah · Post by **eelnekwah** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:38 pm

@Olan . You managed to pick up a Moth for £100 from Ebay.......... what a bargain. Was it the self assemble version you got for that price? I do like the idea of owning one ........ but as you hinted at in your last post , That's a lot of records in the one purchase. But , in the long run I suppose it would be worth it.
I have been using the Nagaoka inners for my vinyl also , plus a Milty antistatic brush before and after play. Do you also put new vinyl through the Moth to remove mould release agent etc? I guess (?? )new vinyl would have a tendency to pick up static charges as its being transported around. I used to Knosti new vinyl, but now just brush with the Milty and slip into the Naggi sleeves. Maybe wet wash new vinyl to remove static charges would be an idea.
With the Knosti system I'm mixing up one batch of L'Art du Son and using it for maybe 60 LP's. I'll clean in first Knosti and immediately rinse in another Knosti filled with purified water- changing water after 8 records. Pat dry with with micro fibre clothes and leave to air dry. Have noticed this still leaves streaking though.
To Ebay I go I guess

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:01 pm

eelnekwah wrote:@Olan . You managed to pick up a Moth for £100 from Ebay.......... what a bargain. Was it the self assemble version you got for that price? I do like the idea of owning one ........ but as you hinted at in your last post , That's a lot of records in the one purchase. But , in the long run I suppose it would be worth it.
I have been using the Nagaoka inners for my vinyl also , plus a Milty antistatic brush before and after play. Do you also put new vinyl through the Moth to remove mould release agent etc? I guess (?? )new vinyl would have a tendency to pick up static charges as its being transported around. I used to Knosti new vinyl, but now just brush with the Milty and slip into the Naggi sleeves. Maybe wet wash new vinyl to remove static charges would be an idea.
With the Knosti system I'm mixing up one batch of L'Art du Son and using it for maybe 60 LP's. I'll clean in first Knosti and immediately rinse in another Knosti filled with purified water- changing water after 8 records. Pat dry with with micro fibre clothes and leave to air dry. Have noticed this still leaves streaking though.
To Ebay I go I guess

Mine is the kit version, assembled by somebody else and bought the first week after we arrived back in the UK in late 2011. It came with a 2.5 L bottle of Isopropanol (which is ideal for cleaning records) and a 1 Litre bottle of Russ Andrew's ReVive which is a mold release agent. I've never bothered with any other fluid. I saw the auction with about 15 minutes to go, bid about £100, as that was the starting bid and went to put the kids to bed. I was astonished to find out I had won it.

Everything gets a pre-play clean when it comes into the house new or old. I've also lent the machine out to folks for a week or two to clean their records. Anybody near to Liverpool is welcome to borrow it, but it does make a fair old racket when the vacuum is on. I reckon we've done well over 3000 LPs (my stash and several others) in the last 4 years. That is £25 quid per year or a few pence per LP, so if you have lots of records it is a no-brainer to buy a RCM over time. The cost of the inners swamps the cost of the RCM, but as these are relatively cheap per packet people don't worry about buying them. It is far, far better than the Knosti. I re-cleaned everything I did with my old Knosti becase of the streaks. Its a bit OCD, but once clean you really don't have to worry again. I use relatively expensive MC cartridges (was Dynavector now Lyra) so clean vinyl is a sensible way to avoid a big bill due to knackered vinyl leading to damaged cartridge.

Aquarian-Time · Post by **Aquarian-Time** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:30 am

Been eyeing one of these machines up Olan, but may well take you up on the kind offer of a loan of said kit as I canot afford a new one just yet. Will be in touch pal

olan · Post by **olan** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:10 pm

Aquarian-Time wrote:Been eyeing one of these machines up Olan, but may well take you up on the kind offer of a loan of said kit as I canot afford a new one just yet. Will be in touch pal

No drama Dave. You are welcome anytime.

angelsighs · Post by **angelsighs** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:10 pm

blimey all sounds like of bother.. I'm still undecided whether to take the plunge with vinyl yet.. might in the new year.

but it all sounds a bit like hassle

at least with a CD I just pop it in!

olan · Post by **olan** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:33 pm

angelsighs wrote:blimey all sounds like of bother.. I'm still undecided whether to take the plunge with vinyl yet.. might in the new year.

but it all sounds a bit like hassle at least with a CD I just pop it in!

CDs are great. I have thousands of the things. They are best kept in the attic after being ripped to a server though.....

angelsighs · Post by **angelsighs** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:06 pm

Yeah there's no reason why it has to be one thing and not the other. There's lots of different ways to get your music now, and your takes your choice.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:25 am

Back to records for a moment.
I have to give a shout out to Neil Young. I had no idea there was a third RSD Neil Young box being issued on black friday.
I bought the first two RSD box sets and love them. I love all those records.
When I saw the third one this past black friday I was like

.
Then I read some reviews and folks just said if you like Neil you "need' this.
I hemmed and hawed and asked a local shop I frequent what was the best price they could do it for.
It was priced $150. I have seen it on Amazon for $115. I figured if it was close I would rather keep my my money local and patronize a shop I go in at least twice a week.
I walked in today and the guy who always serves me said how about $95? I bought it today and am listening to it right now.
Anyone serious about reissuing vinyl ought to take a page out of Neil Young's book. All these records sound superb.
All remastered from analog tapes. All 180 gram vinyl. All in the same packaging they came out in.
I kind of smirked when I saw this box because I figured I had all the NY records I wanted in the first two box sets.
This one has:
Stills/Young Band- Long May You Run
American Stars & Bars
Comes A Time
Rust Never Sleeps
Live Rust
Well, I was wrong. These records are way better than I ever gave them credit for though I haven't listened to the Stills/Young LP yet.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:47 pm

I'm looking at upgrading my stereo set up and thought this would be the best place for advice. I've currently got a Rega RP1 (with performance pack) going through an old Rotel RA 930 AX amplifier which I've had for at least 10 years and Q Acoustic 2020i's which I've had for a couple of years. So, I'm hoping to upgrade both my amp and turntable but, depending on the cost, perhaps not both at once.

Turntable wise, I was looking at going up to the relatively newly improved (from what I've read) Rega Planar 2 but a bit unsure if it'll be much of an improvement on upgraded RP1. Which brings me to my next question, is the upgrade pack exactly the same for both of these turntables? Would it be better for me buy the Planar 2 with another performance pack (approx £450) or go one step further and go for the Planar 3 (£550). Or is their a better turntable around the same price point I'm missing completely (though I do like Regas).

Amp wise I've been drawn to the Marrantz PM6006 and wondered if this would be suitable for any of the Rega's mentioned above. Also, I noticed that like my current amp it has a phono stage built in so would I need to buy a separate pre-amp/phono stage too?

The more I research all this, the more questions and dilemmas I have. I have also promised my old turntable to a fellow forumite so would like to get moving on my upgrade fairly sharpish.

rapideye · Post by **rapideye** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:55 pm

Vinyl porn. Click on it, you know you want to. It's a bit naughty...

http://thevinylfactory.com/?s=home gr

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:16 am

Central Audio has a Roksan Radius available http://www.centralaudio.co.uk/index.php ... ts&id=9801. The Nima tonearm is a gem (Nima is a redesign of a Naim arm I used for years). It is less than half price and if it comes with the cartridge is a bit of a bargain. My wife actually approves of the design

rapideye · Post by **rapideye** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:47 pm

Another interesting site you might like.

http://dustandgrooves.com/

rapideye · Post by **rapideye** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:29 pm

Shinesalight - Have you decided yet and, if so, what did you go for?

Post by **MODLAB** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:06 pm

Would anyone like to post their rigs? Would be nice to see what everyone has.

M

olan · Post by **olan** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:46 pm

MODLAB wrote:Would anyone like to post their rigs? Would be nice to see what everyone has.

M

Are you really sure you want to go there??

Before I moved house in 2014 it was this:

Digital: Naim NDS/555PS
Deck: Linn LP12
Amps: Naim252, 2xNaim250 and SNAXO active crossover
Speakers: Naim SL2 and nSub which look like this:

This was the result of dealing heavily in second hand hi fi while stuck at home recovering from cancer. I'm pretty sure clewsr had at least one lengthy listen to this rig. I recall us playing Fucked Up Inside on vinyl and sitting there transfixed (or at least I was

)

We moved house and I sold the great wall of Naim and moved slowly to my current rig, which is valve powered and passive. Again, everything (bar the speakers and phono stage which were made for me) is second hand.
My turntable is now a Clearaudio Eclipse. The phono stage is an Allnic Audio H1201. Sadly, it is being repaired at present.

My speakers are Art Audio Alnico 8 in Walnut

The rig looks like this tonight, again playing FUI just for the hell of it:

and

Contents of the cupboard:

Pre-amp: Audio Research LS26, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 2 (top shelf)
Stax Headphone Amp. Digital: Simaudio Moon MiND 180 Renderer and DAC100 (middle shelf)
Power Amps: Rank Conquest Monoblocks (bottom shelf)

And some of my vinyl:

I'll be stuck at home on and off for the next year and a half due to illness and so expect to change everything except the speakers as I have started trading Hi Fi again

. First up though will be a renovation of the house to keep my favourite girls happy though

.

Post by **MODLAB** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:54 am

No LP12? WOW! I was so jealous of that turntable.

Here is our current set-up.

LINN
2x LK280 MONO Bi-wired
1x LK1 w/ external power
LP12
KAHN II

: IMG_1449 (1).jpg (295.95 KiB) Viewed 33488 times

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:08 pm

Impressive stuff. My rig is modest in comparison. Maybe I'll snap a few photos anyway.

Post by **MODLAB** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:42 pm

You should, Paul. Would like to see all the new things you purchased.

M

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:49 pm

Here's my modest rig. It sounds great to my ears. My old Denon receiver died last year, so I replaced it with a new one, along with the ProJect Tube Box preamp.

: Stereo 1.JPG (56.21 KiB) Viewed 33379 times

: Sansui.JPG (97.74 KiB) Viewed 33251 times

: Tube Preamp.JPG (70.74 KiB) Viewed 33379 times

TheWarmth · Post by **TheWarmth** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:01 am

Post by **MODLAB** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:14 am

Nice!

Keep them coming.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:20 am

rapideye wrote:Shinesalight - Have you decided yet and, if so, what did you go for?

Still thinking of going for the new Rega Planar 3. Think that best suits my budget at the moment and I may get the Rega Brio amp later in the year to go with it if I can raise the £'s. I don't really want to push the budget much further than that to be honest.

Post by **runcible** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:04 am

Going back to the original subject I am looking for a turntable along the lines of the ones discussed a few years ago on this thread. Something decent but without being too OTT price-wise.

Any new kids on the block I should be aware of? The Rega and Project turntables are looking like the best area to go for but... any other current suggestions?

Post by **MODLAB** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:39 pm

CLEARAUDIO Concept
Rega Planar 3

are very good.

M

toomilk · Post by **toomilk** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:43 am

Olan -

Your old setup is insane!

How would you rate the Allnic H1201?

olan · Post by **olan** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:00 pm

toomilk wrote:Olan -

Your old setup is insane!

How would you rate the Allnic H1201?

Sorry about the delayed response Kevin, I missed your post.

My impression is that the Allnic is better than my previous Linn Uphorik that was built into the plinth of my old LP12, particularly in terms of sheer heft - the bass is phenomenal. It is a bit hard to tell though as I'm now using a Clearaudio deck instead of the Linn, so that may explain some of the difference.

Unfortunately the Allnic has been unreliable and had to go back for repair after 6 months. This is enough reason for me to want to get rid of it. However while it was gone to the Doctor I used an old Trigon Vanguard 1 solid state phono stage set for an MM cartridge and an Allnic SUT to accommodate my MC cartridge. This absolutely smoked the H1201. The Trigon can be bought second hand for not very much money at all (maybe 10% of the RRP of the Allnic). The sheer grunt and attack of the Trigon is phenomenal, particularly given the price. Anybody looking for a phonostage who is willing to buy second hand should consider one.

We're going to replace some of my kit later in the year (I need to pay to renovate the house first). I suspect the Allnic will be top of the list of things to go. I got it at a good price

so I won't loose money on it

.

rapideye · Post by **rapideye** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:53 pm

I've been looking to upgrade my system starting with the turntable. I have an older Planar 3 at the moment but I've been looking at the newer P3 as well as the RP6 or the Clearaudio but as yet I haven't visited a store or tried a demo. I'm on holiday for the next couple of weeks but intend to start seriously looking when I come back.

I've been keeping an eye on Ebay etc and for my budget I could stretch to a secondhand LP12 but my problems with this is that I would struggle to site it in a dedicated stand. As much as I'd like a Linn, I'm thinking that a simpler deck to position and setup may be best. I did also see a Kuzma Stabi that looked interesting.

I did come across this - http://www.inspirehifi.co.uk/rega-upgrades.html and for £500 or so I could refurbish the Rega. I'm kinda drawn to this and a couple of reviews seem to suggest that it is quite good in sound and value for money. Anyone got any idea on whether this is worthwhile? Even with this, I might replace the tonearm and cartridge if budget allows. Any advice on the turntables etc appreciated

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 am

rapideye wrote:I've been looking to upgrade my system starting with the turntable. I have an older Planar 3 at the moment but I've been looking at the newer P3 as well as the RP6 or the Clearaudio but as yet I haven't visited a store or tried a demo. I'm on holiday for the next couple of weeks but intend to start seriously looking when I come back.

I've been keeping an eye on Ebay etc and for my budget I could stretch to a secondhand LP12 but my problems with this is that I would struggle to site it in a dedicated stand. As much as I'd like a Linn, I'm thinking that a simpler deck to position and setup may be best. I did also see a Kuzma Stabi that looked interesting.

I did come across this - http://www.inspirehifi.co.uk/rega-upgrades.html and for £500 or so I could refurbish the Rega. I'm kinda drawn to this and a couple of reviews seem to suggest that it is quite good in sound and value for money. Anyone got any idea on whether this is worthwhile? Even with this, I might replace the tonearm and cartridge if budget allows. Any advice on the turntables etc appreciated

To be very honest, youcould spend loads tarting up a Rega Planar 3, but at the end of the day it is still a Rega Planar 3. If you like what Rega do, and I do as I had a Rega Planar 3 for many years, I would trade up their range from the Planar 3. There are new models coming on line now so the current range should be available at decent prices if you shop around.

Alternatively, have a look at Audiogon or Hi Fi Shark for second hand kit. There are real bargains to be had at present. I paid 30% of retail for my Clearaudio Ambient. It is much, much better than the previous Linn LP12 I was using and thought would see me out.