EUROCUP 2012

niamhm · Post by **niamhm** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:56 am

redcloud wrote:Tried to get the England game on at my work...kick off was 11:45am over here. IT person fiddled around and eventually said they thought they had it on an open channel but of course they didn't. I followed the first half the best I could on bbc sports - live commentary, but of course had to switch off during second half to attend some meetings and ended up missing the best part of the game! Great win though and it sounds like it was a thriller.

pity u missed the 2nd half Redcloud ,that was maybe the most entertaining 45 mins. in the tournament so far ,England went to sleep and let Sweden equalize and then incredibley take the lead ,then Hodgkinson made the substitution that kept the knifes from plundging into his back after only 4 games ,and Walcot came on and made some difference ,a wonder strike and some positive forward runs ,one of which lead to the 3rd goal , fuck knows how Wellbeck managed that ? was that on purpose or a fluke? , on purpose if you ask me ,but I doubt he could do it again, but that doesn`t matter ,you only have to do it once ,as a Scotsman I usually find myself in the anybody thats playing England camp ,but the the realistic humility shown by the media in the lead up to the game had me non plussed and actually cheering when Walcot scored , dissolved having to listen to that prick Shearer and his post match witterings though,I have an appointment with that prick around a week from now when Englands interest ends

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:17 am

niamhm wrote: pity u missed the 2nd half Redcloud ,that was maybe the most entertaining 45 mins. in the tournament so far

Yea, I was bummed I missed it. You never know...one spark could inject enough confidence that could be the difference in taking a team deeper into a competition.

Post by **runcible** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:08 pm

Very exciting game - even my non-football watching kids got into it. The contrast between the 2 halves was extraordinary as England ran the first with ease and I was hoping we'd kill the game off before half time. Fantastic goal from Carroll. Sweden were brilliant for 15 minutes or so in the second half - that must have been some half time talk! Yet, as niamhm says, England went to sleep. First goal was unfortunate, the second was horrific - I counted 3 yellow shirts that had got behind the England back line for that. It looked like that was going to be that but the Walcott substitution showed genuine tactical awareness and skill from Hodgson - he transformed the game. That finish from Welbeck was incredible - his split second decision making was fantastic. Certainly one of the goals of the tournament...

Who knows what will happen on Tuesday against Ukraine? England have showed that almost anything can take place if they are on the pitch. With a bit of tightening up, a few more games for RH and some tweaking we might actually get something together under this manager.

olan · Post by **olan** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:25 pm

runcible wrote:Very exciting game - even my non-football watching kids got into it. The contrast between the 2 halves was extraordinary as England ran the first with ease and I was hoping we'd kill the game off before half time. Fantastic goal from Carroll. Sweden were brilliant for 15 minutes or so in the second half - that must have been some half time talk! Yet, as niamhm says, England went to sleep. First goal was unfortunate, the second was horrific - I counted 3 yellow shirts that had got behind the England back line for that. It looked like that was going to be that but the Walcott substitution showed genuine tactical awareness and skill from Hodgson - he transformed the game. That finish from Welbeck was incredible - his split second decision making was fantastic. Certainly one of the goals of the tournament...

Who knows what will happen on Tuesday against Ukraine? England have showed that almost anything can take place if they are on the pitch. With a bit of tightening up, a few more games for RH and some tweaking we might actually get something together under this manager.

I suspect that England will do very well against Ukraine, particularly if they choose their quicker forwards. France's first goal last nigt was from a breakaway which Ukraine's defence was incredibly slow in covering. Every time the French broke in the second half they looked like scoring.

Having said that, Ukraine look quite good going forward, and England's defending looked suspect to the high ball, which was a real surprise. Should be a good game, helped by the fact that Ukraine have to win and so will have to push on, which might leave a bit of room for Rooney, Wellbeck and Co.

Meanwhile, I'm worried that Ireland will be on the other end of another hammering as Italy look like a decent side.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:41 pm

No Greek Tragedy tonite, wow what an upset of Russia. Thought Russia would move onto the next round, I guess not ?

Denmark vs. Germany tomorrow should be a great match as well ...

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:26 pm

See you later Holland!

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:41 pm

Great game between Croatia and Espana. However, I thought that Iniesta and Navas was slightly offsides during their game winning goal.

England and France determine their fates tomorrow...

olan · Post by **olan** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:29 pm

Watched the Ireland - Italy game, which was fairly entertaining. Balotelli's goal was excellent. If somebody had told me before the tournament that Ireland would finish equal on points with the Dutch, I would have taken that. Just goes to show how poor my judgement is. I thought Ireland tried, but they are desperately short of talent, and got what they deserved. Italy did not impress me at all. Their defense looks surprisingly poor

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:33 am

The Ukranians will suprise England tomorrow with a win ! Rooney will get a red card and get booted in the match in the second half !

France and Ukraine will move on to the next round.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:39 pm

spacemanrich wrote:The Ukranians will suprise England tomorrow with a win !

The only surprise was that it wasn't a draw. But even if they had allowed that goal (which looked to me like it crossed) England would still go through.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:42 pm

spacemanrich wrote:The Ukranians will suprise England tomorrow with a win ! Rooney will get a red card and get booted in the match in the second half !

France and Ukraine will move on to the next round.

olan · Post by **olan** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 pm

spacemanrich wrote:The Ukranians will suprise England tomorrow with a win ! Rooney will get a red card and get booted in the match in the second half !

France and Ukraine will move on to the next round.

Nearly....

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:20 am

Watch the Hype-machine kick into action now....

Saying that, I fancy England to beat Italy. After that? Fuck knows.

Pity that i'll miss the two quarter finals I wanted to see this weekend. Then again i'll be at a festival, so can't complain.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:07 pm

I remember being in London during Euro 96. It may have been the hype machine or national pride but I found all the excitement leading up to the semifinal with Germany thrilling. I've always said this, there is nothing like an English football match comapred to a US sports event. Its just different. A National team game in the semi finals of a tournament was pretty amazing. Too bad Southgate's penalty wasnt a few inches lower.

Not being nearly as close to or invested in Euro 2012 as a lot of you guys I think that England win was pretty great given the circumstances. 90% of the fans rooting against you, a team that needs a win to advance, of course Ukraine took it to England. But England took care of business(with a little help).

Looking forward to Sunday.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:22 pm

I too was in London during Euro '96. Great couple of weeks and a real sense that England were going to win the whole thing. I remember the tension and the tears afterwards too. Being American I felt the punch in the gut but I wasn't as devastated or as angry as my English friends were. I totally sympathized though as back in 1988 the Browns were literally one minute and just a few inches away from going to the Super Bowl. They fumbled the ball on the goal line and the opponent recovered and ended up winning the game. I watched in disbelief as it all quickly slipped away. I felt sick to my stomach as if I had been punched in the gut by Mike Tyson. They say it's only a game yet a win or a loss can brings up so many raw emotions amongst so many of us.

I think Italy are beatable and probably a better team for England to face in the quarters than Spain would have been. Should be a great match. I too will miss it as we are going camping out in Hell's Canyon for a week.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:43 pm

Anxiously awaiting more predictions

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:01 pm

That was a classic away from home performance from England combined with some luck. Ukraine looked better but didn't have the right man to finish things off for them. The officials didn't help of course! I hope that situation brings goal line technology a little closer - it is embarrassing how far behind football is compared to sports like tennis, cricket, rugby. But while the idiots who run it stay in power it's impossible to say when things might change. I mean - they fined Bendtner more for showing a sponsor's name on his undies than they did Croatia for their fans racist abuse. It's just bizarre.

I'd be surprised if we can beat Italy. I think that the Italian strikers would have put away the chances the Ukraines had. Mind you France losing to Sweden was a bit of a surprise so I am hoping for an upset!

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:16 pm

It's my understanding that FIFA are moving towards goal line technology for the next World Cup but UEFA are resisting it.

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:33 pm

redcloud wrote:It's my understanding that FIFA are moving towards goal line technology for the next World Cup but UEFA are resisting it.

You got it, but when 2 clowns like Blatter and Platini are in charge who knows what will happen!

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:42 pm

German Dominance.

Gotta remove Boateng from the starting lineup - he is a bloody liability. He really conceded the (2) Greek goals : 1) outran in the counter-attack and 2) the hand ball violation.

England vs. Italy evenly matched - neither team is good nor is France. England's backfield looks porous in the last game against Ukraine ...

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:14 pm

Spaceman Rich, please don't think I'm taking the piss, but I always have a little chuckle at your posts on football with your talk of "handball violations" and "England's backfield".... it reminds me of this old sketch they used to do on a Saturday morning footy show on Sky, Soccer AM. Here's an example:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSKEc_pkf4

Like I said though, I'm not having a pop...its just that some of your Americanisms make me laugh.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:48 am

CRICKEY ! As far as I know this is an aussie term. In fact, my aussie friend says that they don't use 'crickey' no more, it was more of his father's and grandfather's generation. However, the late Steve Irwin (animal presenter) used it quite often ... I'm trying to bring it back into vogue.

Post by **runcible** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:18 am

spacemanrich wrote:CRICKEY !

Is that an Americanism for the game they play with bats, balls, wickets and pads?

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 pm

spacemanrich wrote:CRICKEY ! As far as I know this is an aussie term. In fact, my aussie friend says that they don't use 'crickey' no more, it was more of his father's and grandfather's generation. However, the late Steve Irwin (animal presenter) used it quite often ... I'm trying to bring it back into vogue.

I like crickey and use it quite a lot myself along with cripes, especially when I'm round friends with kids and I can't get away with fuck, bollocks or the good old fashioned c-bomb!!!

Hofstadter · Post by **Hofstadter** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:32 pm

Wait 'bollocks' is on par with 'fuck'?? I always thought of it as just some silly British colloquialism, similar to crikey!! This just made me laugh very hard. It's just very funny to me for some reason. Sorry for not contributing to the soccer conversation.

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:49 pm

runcible wrote:
spacemanrich wrote:CRICKEY !
Is that an Americanism for the game they play with bats, balls, wickets and pads?

That would be basebollocks!

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:23 pm

Hofstadter wrote:Wait 'bollocks' is on par with 'fuck'?? I always thought of it as just some silly British colloquialism, similar to crikey!! This just made me laugh very hard. It's just very funny to me for some reason. Sorry for not contributing to the soccer conversation.

Bollocks = Balls (as in...I just got kicked in the bollocks). Right? But, it's considered rude so one wouldn't say it in school or around your mom. Then again, I work with tough kids....they often say "fuck" with no care about adults, their parents or authority.

The other British words Americans use a lot with no real clue about their intent or meaning are "bloody" and "wanker". I've heard both on tv yet you would never hear "god damn!' (the equivilent of "bloody") or"jack off" ("wanker") on tv.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:46 pm

ShineALight, the cbomb - are you referring to c*nt ? I try to not use that word as I find it quite offense , you know like p*ssy.
I think the english version of 'crickey' is 'blimey' ? How many english punters use blimey these days ?

The Spanish should open the game in the second half, the frenchies look lost. I don't know if you noticed or not, but I was quite suprised that France are now sponsored by Nike ( the evil empire ). Their kits have been sponsored by Adidas for more than 40+ years. Fuck a 40+ relationship. Fuck tradition. Money talks these days, esp. with Nike.

Nike is paying 4 TIMES what Adidas paid for the French sponsorship. 240 million euros for 7 years = 42.6 million euros a year ! Adidas was only paying France a little over 10 million euros ! Nike is paying silly money ' to catch ' up with Adidas.

http://soccerlens.com/you-are-all-invit ... 320m/6036/

Looks like it is paying off. Did you see the side rip in Frank Ribery's jersey - are you suprised ? Shoddy kits with shoddy workmanship ! I'll never support the French again until 2018 when the contract renews again and we'll see who sponsors them.

Wow, the two powerhouses (Espana & Deutschland) left in the tourney are sponsored by ........ Adidas

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:29 pm

I would have been gutted if England won on penalty kicks. Italia was the better team tonite, they had the ball for like 80% of the time and like 20+ shots on goal. Well, Italy will get throttled by Germany.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:28 am

Can one of you astute England fans explain something to me? People always go on about how the Premier League is the best league in the world and it is the hardest trophy to win. Is this just lip service?
Why do England teams play the most boring, uber defensive football in the world. All those players are Premier League no? Are they afraid to create any offense?
They were so lucky to get to penalties.
As soon as I saw Ashley Young I had a bad feeling. I think Ashley Cole shit his pants on the way up to the penalty. That one was poor.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:35 am

i'm glad ashley young missed, in some kinda way he deserved to miss - he's little more than a cheat.
ashley cole was different. one of englands few top class footballers. he can usually be relied upon to score his pens, but he does have the habit of putting them low to the keepers left every time so in a sense i wasn't surprised he missed last night.

England were lucky to get to penalties. & tbh, lucky to have gotten such an easy group stage & fortunate to have beaten Sweden & maybe even Ukraine.

in terms of Best League in the World BS well... i kinda see it like say U2 saying they're the best band in the world. allow me to stretch this analogy further & it's a matter of preference, style choice. there simply is no such thing as 'best league in the world'. just that some think the oft-times helter skelter style of the EPL is more entertaining & exciting.
i'm not one of those people tho. i think people who hype the EPL to be the best league, or most exciting, are in general morons who've bought into the hypebeast & have poor concentration levels.

in terms of the English players, & even Chelsea for that matter, it's nothing short of a disgrace to go out & play such cowardly football. full of fear of the ball, of passing the ball or retaining possession.
i have to wonder why some of them even bother.

there are good footballers in their ranks, some terrible. not too many top class ones tho.
& i do think that undermining it all is this snooty philosophy towards possession football. you can even see it in the backlash towards Spains style. there is a real lack of appreciation for passing the ball at a fundamental level which is infecting the entire English game, & has done for decades now.

people just don't have the attention span to allow proper football to develop. English football has to the way it is cause the personnel aren't encouraged to play any other way. it's frowned upon.

& yet it seems a lot of people believe players of that value they oppose are actually produced in England. & they're not. the last truly great ball player England had was Paul Scholes.
Gerrard is brilliant, but he's more of an impact player & doesn't pass the ball to retain possession, he tries the quarterback glory-pass nearly every time. & he's prob Englands best non-defensive player at present, the rest of them are p woeful. even the likes of Scott Parker who is decent & a great pro, but he's completely out of his depth at a major championships - andy carroll/jordan henderson are jokes. Jack Whilshere was a loss. him & maybe Oxlade Chamberlain are two bright spots for the future.

so yea. England just don't produce quality footballers. stop the press!
& it's their fundamental attitude that corrupts that production.
their style of football isn't conducive to either aesthetic or effective football. (on the international stage, of course - the likes of chelsea & the clubs can enforce their teams w/class brought from abroad, a luxury denied to international football which helps make it so intriguing & worthwhile...)

Broc · Post by **Broc** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 am

spzretent wrote:People always go on about how the Premier League is the best league in the world and it is the hardest trophy to win.

It's only the English media that is always going on about it being the best league, not many others do. It's passionate and competitive but with regard to quality it's fallen quite far behind the likes of Spain and maybe Germany.

The reason England's national team is so poor and has been for a while is because about 50% of the players are foreign. As a result there's quite a limited pool of players to pick from.

With respect, I'm glad England are out. Italy should have hammered them last night though I could see England drag them to penalties, so I was happy that the right team went through. Pirlo was fantastic. A lot of English players were very poor.

I thought watching Ireland was bad but England were awful to watch as well.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:09 pm

It was Manicini and Ferguson who kept going on about the Premier League being the best in the world and/or hardest trophy to win.
Living in the US we pretty much only get Premier League coverage. Fox Soccer Channel has one Serie A game a week. Everytime England qualify I support them because I have a lot of English friends and I remember the vibe during Euro 96. It was great.
Last night was just terrible. They couldn't hold possession for more than two passes almost the entire game.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:11 pm

It was going to end up with one of them losing and neither team can beat Germany. Didn't seem like the english side wanted the ball, hence the 80% ball possession by the Italians. Rooney's timing seemed to be a little off on some passes and Joe Hart worked his butt off last nite defending the goal, that's for sure !

England and the Netherlands have the worst penalty kick records according to an article by Deutsche Welle. The Czechs and the Germans have the highest percentage. Leave it to the Germans to break down the statistics, interesting read :

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16038806,00.html

It's the battle of the Iberian Peninsula and it is going to be a close game. I'll give this one to Spain, but I wouldn't be suprised if Portugal won. Even tho' I can't stand him, I have to admit Ronaldo is playing very good football.

Germany will beat Italia perhaps setting it up for a Germany vs. Espana Finals ?

England's soccer is not the only country in decline, what about Italy (fraught by scandal) and France (in house rows) ? After the Sweden game loss, Samir Nasri, Alou Diarra and Hatem Ben Arfa were in a dustup in the locker room. Seems like the french can't get their act together in terms of ' team chemistry ' - it's almost like 2010 S.Africa again with the Nat'l French Team. People envy the team play and style of Spain. Just weed out the players on the nat'l team regardless of their talent if they aren't going to mesh together. One bad player on the pitch can ruin the chemistry for the entire team ...

I'll give the slight nod to Germany. Seems like their due for a major championship and also maybe history as well - it's the 40th anniversary of their EuroCup win in 1972.

Post by **runcible** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:54 am

Pretty dull last night - very few chances until the end and Spain generally looked out of sorts. Nothing helped by a dreadful referee who had no authority and the game ended up being a card brandishing exercise for the guy. Compare that to the ref's performance in the England Italy and the France Spain games, both of which flowed with the minimum of whistle sounds. It shows how a poor ref can disrupt so much about the game where it ends up with players feigning injury and generally taking the piss - both of which happened last night.

I'd like Spain to win the whole thing - spent so much time there that I have a soft spot - but they'll need to raise their game to beat the likes of Germany. I normally have a soft spot for a team like Portugal but that tosser Ronaldo - great player he might be - prevents that.

Sadly, after some initial promise, this tournament has become pretty stale. The most likely games to be classics - last night, Spain France - have been anything but. In the last European Championship I saw one of the greatest games ever - between Holland and France - and nothing from this one begins to compare.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:06 pm

i do agree there hasn't been enough or even any truly classic matches

however i do still think it's been a fantastic tournament:
the quality of football has, in general, been very good; plenty of stories & drama; the big players have performed*; the teams that deserve to be competing at the end are; & attacking football has won out.

*cron blew it last night. in the 89/90min when Portugal broke & he skied a left foot shot high & wide. & his performance in the match over all was diabolical, very typical of him - did very little work & displayed his famous petulance.

i was glad Spain progressed, tho for much of the game Portugal stifled them & were the better team. however Spain tried to win it thru their endeavour rather than relying on set-pieces & counter-attacks. (the ref was gash, yea, & detracted from the spectacle.)
& what a great pen by Cesc (& Ramos for that matter). loved seeing him talking to the ball as he placed it.

there is still time for two great matches. the pairings are w/o doubt the best teams left in Europe, & prob the world at this moment in time.

as for tonight. it's really difficult to look beyond Germany.
BUT if Italy do somehow manage it, i think they might have the beating of Spain in the final & may provide a more entertaining game than if the Germans progress. i'd fancy Spain to beat Germany in another dour game.
having said that the Germans have by far the best squad & have been the most consistent performers at these championships - having won all their games, Spain have [technically] drawn twice & Italy 3 times. but the Germans just haven't been as exciting & lovable as the Italians or as awe-inspiring & lovable as the Spanish. so while i'm happy all three remain, i'm rooting for an Italy/Spain final.

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:07 pm

Expecting a total snooze-fest with Italy the eventual winners.

Not a great tournament so far imo. Most teams technically good on the ball but not much excitement.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:36 pm

CRICKEY ! The Germans are reeling right now going into halftime. I'd expected it to be the Germans to strike first and fast ! I can't stand the spaghetti's and Bolatelli !!!!!!

Joachim Low better pull something out of the hat, Germans are already crying in the stands ...

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:46 pm

Viva Espana !

*Schadenfreude for Italia.

The way the ravioli's played tonite, they might beat Spain ?

Runcie, and you say this isn't a great tournament ?

* (german) the pleasure in the misfortune of others.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:35 pm

Great game.

Why so harsh on Balotelli, Spaceman? The guys 21 y.o. & just put his country into the final. He's a great entertainer & brilliant footballer. He worked his socks off tonight, defended like the likes of cron (& plenty of others) never would & scored two cracker goals. He's been the only good striker at this tournament.

Post by **spzretent** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:13 am

When the semifinal was decided I could not wait for Spain vs Portugal. A massive letdown. I decided to watch todays match even after yesterdays dull game and a complete contrast.
I thoroughly enjoyed Italy beating Germany. It could have been much more lopsided even though Germany controlled the ball most of the game.
Balotelli- Wow!

Broc · Post by **Broc** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:53 am

Pirlo - Wow...again.

Hopefully this will be a good final, I'll be on holiday in Spain to watch it too!

Post by **runcible** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:45 am

spacemanrich wrote:It was going to end up with one of them losing and neither team can beat Germany.

Germany will beat Italia perhaps setting it up for a Germany vs. Espana Finals ?

So who you fancy to win the final Rich? I must remember to put money on the other team.

Fantastic match between Italy and Germany. It was played with real spirit and both teams were excellent. I can't agree that Germany controlled the ball though - I thought Italy ran the game from start to end with Pirlo at the controls. That guys is simply incredible and must be the player of the tournament. Both Italian goals were crackers - Balotelli was superb, and not just for the goals he scored.

One other point - compare the referee last night to the one the night before. What a contrast and what a different atmosphere on the pitch. Almost no diving or play-acting - anyone who stayed down did so because they'd hurt themselves. The referee set out how he was going to run the game from the off and the players respected it. On endless occasions when a player was running with someone at his heels the temptation to spill over or dive would have been there but last night no one did - in the Spain Portugal game that happened all the time.

Last words must go to the BBC commentary team when Balotelli did his expressionless statue impression after the 2nd goal, and one BBC guy said that Balotelli was 'sending out a message to the world' and Mark Lawrenson responded with 'what - I'm nuts?' Classic.

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:09 am

My first post in this Euro thread.......

Fantastic game last night, prob the best one I've seen so far (I missed a weeks worth - luckily most of the England games - due to a holiday in Majorca.) Spain v Portugal was a bore fest. Spain bore me anyway. I really like the way Italy and Germany have played so far and did think Germnay would be the stronger last night so was surprised by the way Italy came out and bossed the game after the first 10 mins or so. To great goals and should've been more if it wasn't for some wasteful finishing in the 2nd half.

Italy for me in the final. I really hope they tear the Spanish up and ruin their tika-taka-ping-pong-endless passing game. It's boring isn't it. It can't just be me that thinks that right? The constant gushing over them drives me nuts, same with Barca.

As for England, my country and 'team', I can't get behind them at all and hadn't watched a game of theirs since the last world cup. They're average and always have been. The best thing about this tournament has been that they, and the media, and the fans, have finally realized it. We do well just to reach the quarter finals most of the time. Hopefully they'll be exciting to watch one day but for now I'd rather watch an Xmas episode of Eastenders on endless rotation (ie: I wouldn't really, that'd be just as frustrating and pointless).

GO ITALIA!!

olan · Post by **olan** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:53 am

I really enjoyed the game last night. Both teams tried to play reasonably positive attacking football, and both had the ability to use a through ball (not a long clearance) very well. I love watching a decent centre-forward tussle it out against decent defenders. Balotelli was immense, two great goals, brilliant all round play, gave the defenders hell, and mad as a cut snake....

I can't understand Spain, especially with this 4-6-0 formation. There was a post on one of the other lists I subscribe to suggesting a way to deal with tiki-taka: if a team makes eight unchallenged passes in a row, and ends up going backwards, the opposition are allowed a free, below-the-knees lunge, not necessarily at the player in possession. I have a lot of sympathy for this having watched all of Spain's games. They have the talent to entertain and play attacking football, they simply choose not to do so.....

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:10 am

i have nothing but admiration for Spain's football.

i do agree, somewhat, w/the notion that they 'choose not to play attacking football' for a lot of the time. & in many ways their tiki-taka is perversely ultra-defensive.
however that has to be balanced & accommodated if you're going to adhere zealously to their philosophy. it's a necessary evil, at times. it is how they defend!

ultimately tho, the idea of keeping the ball & passing it to try & win a football match is what i like about football. i mean it's good it has it's different flavours, like everything. but like everything i have my favourite blend & the way the Spanish go about it i really cant help but love it.
i do agree it can be monotonous - but i also think they're not entirely to blame for that. in general i think it's the opposition are culpable for the boring matches.

Post by **spzretent** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:33 pm

Once again I must use this disclaimer. I must see the game different than you guys as I didn't grow up with it. Kind of like what a N. American's post on baseball vs and English or European post.
I thought Germany spent a lot of time in the Italy end. Especially after going down one goal and then two. They had no choice but to keep pushing the ball forward. Italy did a great job of eventually turning them away.
And as i said, the score could have well been way more lopsided.

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:11 pm

Paella vs pasta in the final. Hope the game's as tasty..

Should open up a book to see if any commentator goes with that!

I'll be cheering for Spain but my money will go on Italy. Well, it would if I were a betting man.

Still, two teams from Ireland's group make the final. Kinda puts into perspective the challenge they faced in getting anything from those games. Doesn't excuse the pitiful performances they put in though.

Post by **runcible** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:52 pm

spzretent wrote:Once again I must use this disclaimer. I must see the game different than you guys as I didn't grow up with it. Kind of like what a N. American's post on baseball vs and English or European post.
I thought Germany spent a lot of time in the Italy end. Especially after going down one goal and then two. They had no choice but to keep pushing the ball forward. Italy did a great job of eventually turning them away.
And as i said, the score could have well been way more lopsided.

I think that's true but Italy absolutely ran that game and should have won by more. They looked comfortable throughout and even when German had the ball Italy looked like were in full control and knew exactly what was going on. Early on a couple of odd defensive moments for them which were more to do with errors than Germany working the ball through them. It was a master-class in being able to read the game and Pirlo ran it - I am in total awe at that guy in this competition. By miles the best game I've seen in Euro 2012 as it contained so much skill.

I'll also give the thumbs up to the passing style of Spain, Barca and anyone else who employs that approach. I don't find it dull at all - instead the endless working away until an opening is created is absolutely fascinating. Both Germany and Italy are fine passers of the ball so last night was a perfect match of the sides except that Italy were better organised and just played better. Portugal disrupted Spain's game very well, England don't appear to know how to pass the ball properly. It's interesting that the best teams in the world tend to be teams that know how to pass it about.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:38 pm

I want Espana to win .......... HOWEVER, I think the ravioli's ( much to my chagrin ) are hitting their stride. I didn't think much of them before the tourney and didn't think they were playing good football, even when they played England. The english team is horrible, but when they obliterated Germany's defense and the fast, strong counter-attacks - that got my attention. Much was noted by the announcers how Germany were " more rested " than the Italians, but that can be at a disadvantage. You know the quote rings true, " idle hands make the devil's work. " I think it will be evenly matched and come down to pk's with the lasagna's winning. I'd like to see Pirlo try that chip shot again with Ike Casillas !

" I once read about the evils of drinking, so I stopped reading " - Henry Youngman

Post by **runcible** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:09 pm

spacemanrich wrote: I think it will be evenly matched and come down to pk's with the lasagna's winning.

Right. I am off to bet that Spain win in normal time. Thanks for the tip Rich - you've been reliable so far!

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:54 pm

I guessed before the tourney that Germany would win with Spain coming second. I was one game off from that happening ... Who did you pick to win it all ......... England ?

Post by **MODLAB** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:48 am

Italy deserved the win (I wanted Italy to win). Germany played a terrible match and not the game they wanted (i spoke to many about this). Gomez was like a potato sack, Prince Poldi could not play his game hence the subs... Italy is playing such in a strategic way it's amazing. I think they can beat Spain. Forza!

M

Post by **runcible** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:41 am

spacemanrich wrote:I guessed before the tourney that Germany would win with Spain coming second. I was one game off from that happening ... Who did you pick to win it all ......... England ?

No, I am just amused by your cast iron predictions being somewhat flaky!

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:48 am

I have been on holiday for the past week so I missed England's QF and both SF's. I have to admit I didn't expect Italy to get to the final. But then again, perhaps I was basing that on their miserable World Cup performance?

England and penalties!? Ouch. They really do seem cursed when it comes to them.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:04 pm

What a thrashing...I wonder if the Germans would have made a better opponent for the Spaniards?

What I can say with some confidence is that Spain's first goal highlights the gap between world soccer and MLS. That goal was absolutely beautiful.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:33 pm

Great game and great tournament.

Was nervous and excited, game could have gone either way, really.

Had put on my 1998 EuroCup Spanish kit, yes 14 years ago and it still fits ! Most of the punters were for Spain, met a couple on holiday from Barcelona.

There is a reason why del Bosque got his contract renewal. For most of the tourney, Espana plays a very conservative game with a lot of touches, however, tonite they just came out aggressive straight out of the gates and stymied the spaghetti's. This tourney proves that anything can happen. Sure, most people expected Spain to win, but really by this margin ?

Runcie, how much did you put down for the match ? You can't tell me that wasn't a good game ? If your for Spain that was a very good game, if your for Italia it wasn't.

Espana has a very good possibility of repeating in two years time ( World Cup - Brazil ).

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:56 am

I'm glad this was the tactic used by Spain today. Everyone has been waiting for Spain to show the world just how good they are instead of going up a goal and just shutting down the rest of the game. The second goal was a thing of beauty. Perfect pass. Perfect timing.
This showed why Spain has won three major championships in a row.
Brilliant performance.

Post by **runcible** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:01 am

I'm speechless. I mean, we all knew how good Spain are but to see it in full flow like that was just breath-taking. Rarely have I seen pundits so beside themselves with delight as on the BBC.

Anyone who saw that performance is fortunate to have seen football played like that. It even eclipsed Barca's display against Man U a couple of years ago in the Champions League final. Just sublime. Poor Italy just had no answer.

Sadly I'm not a betting man Rich... but I enjoy a bit of bluster on occasion!

johnnyboy · Post by **johnnyboy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:12 pm

After that first half I was eating a plate of my own words regarding Spain being a bit dull (see my prev post in this thread). Wow. What a joy to watch. Both goals were superb and the could easily have had more (Xavi's shot from outside the box whizzing a fraction over the crossbar for example). Fully deserved to win. I felt sorry for the Italians though, really sorry in fact. They looked knackered. To go down to 10 men through injury was such a shame for them and the game itself. I drifted during the second half after that.

Why didn't Spain play like that earlier in the tournament?? Last night their passing game had a clear attacking purpose and it was a pleasure to watch. Other times they've kept possession but without anything to finish it off, that for me is when they're 'dull'. They have a habit of trying to be too fancy and over elaborate, you can watch it and think "yeah, it looks nice but do something with it.....just boot it for once!!" Haha. I wish England could keep possession for just a little bit like that though. The gulf between us and teams like Spain and Germany is immense.

Roll on the World Cup. In the meantime it's back to the premier league and the 'joy' of watching West Ham struggle all over again.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:26 pm

Spain had played a conservative game up until the Italy game. The Spanish saw how the Italians clobbered the Germans and if they played their style of play, then it would be close ( hence like the 1-1 draw earlier in the tournament between the two teams ). They would have to be the aggressor this time around, I mean Balotelli and Pirlo can turn a game around. But, no way did I or anyone of us expected this ! I mean, the first two goals were beautiful, crisp passing plays. Yeah, I can't see anyone beating them in two years time (World Cup), not even the Brazilians !

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:25 pm

Didn't see that result coming. Glad it did though

A cut above the usual finals we tend to see, especially as Italy played their part too, the scoreline not a true reflection of the game at all.

johnnyboy wrote: They have a habit of trying to be too fancy and over elaborate, you can watch it and think "yeah, it looks nice but do something with it.....just boot it for once!!" Haha.

Spot on Johnny. It's like watching Arsenal a few years ago, trying to walk it into the net. I've found myself screaming at the telly "SHOOT!!!" "JUST GET IT IN THE FUCKING BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I enjoy watching Spain but at times i wish they'd go about things a bit quicker. Very minor quibble though.

To think that Alonso and Torres once played for Liverpool

Still, we've got Henderson and Carroll these days so we'll be alright!

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:21 pm

sunray wrote:
I've found myself screaming at the telly "SHOOT!!!" "JUST GET IT IN THE FUCKING BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I enjoy watching Spain but at times i wish they'd go about things a bit quicker. Very minor quibble though.

I've been to a handful of Portland MLS games. They are extremely frustrating when it comes to this. They all seem so hesitant to pull the trigger. Tthat is just one of the many reasons why they are so miserable at the moment. Manager John Spencer (do any of the Scots on the board remember him?) may struggle to keep his job if the second half of the season doesn't improve.

spzranger · Post by **spzranger** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:25 pm

I follow QPR and remember John Spencer playing up front for us in the Championship having signed from Chelsea after we were relegated from the Premier League in the mid-1990's. Was terrific for about half a season but then lost his form completely. For some reason Everton came in for him and he returned to the Premier League, but barely got a look in there and returned to Scotland. Is he still hanging on in there managing in the MLS?

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:30 pm

spzranger wrote: Is he still hanging on in there managing in the MLS?

Only just.

He came to Portland from Houston (he was an assistant down there). But, if Portland continue to play miserable he may be on his way out. At this stage I would think a lot rests on the second half of this season to save his job. But, it's not looking good.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:08 am

Well, it's not unexpected but it did happen sooner than I anticipated:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/timbers/2012 ... _coac.html