Hillsborough

[runcible]

As a life-long football fan and someone who remembers the Hillsborough disaster vividly I hope that today can finally mark the beginning of the end of the disgraceful treatment of families of victims and other Liverpool fans who were present that day.

The stuff that has come out today - the lies, the delays, the disorganisation - is something that many people already knew but it made me shudder in revulsion at how the mistakes were covered up and the blame shifted. I watched 2 TV specials over the last few days which went into detail about what happened and I found them both moving and horrifying to the point where I genuinely welled up.

The 'accidental death' verdict now has to be quashed and a new enquiry set up which can at least offer some sort of explanation and maybe even closure to everyone who suffered both at the ground and in the 23 years since. And I hope that utter wanker Kelvin MacKenzie is pelted with abuse for the rest of his days - the guy is even more revolting than Piers Morgan (and that is seriously saying something).

Al last 'Justice for the 96' might actually take place. RIP.

[KingHarry]

As a life-long football fan and someone who remembers the Hillsborough disaster vividly I hope that today can finally mark the beginning of the end of the disgraceful treatment of families of victims and other Liverpool fans who were present that day.

The stuff that has come out today - the lies, the delays, the disorganisation - is something that many people already knew but it made me shudder in revulsion at how the mistakes were covered up and the blame shifted. I watched 2 TV specials over the last few days which went into detail about what happened and I found them both moving and horrifying to the point where I genuinely welled up.

The 'accidental death' verdict now has to be quashed and a new enquiry set up which can at least offer some sort of explanation and maybe even closure to everyone who suffered both at the ground and in the 23 years since. And I hope that utter wanker Kelvin MacKenzie is pelted with abuse for the rest of his days - the guy is even more revolting than Piers Morgan (and that is seriously saying something).

Al last 'Justice for the 96' might actually take place. RIP.

I was at the match as a 15 year old. We sat in the West Stand above the terrace, only because we'd stood in the central pens the year before in '88 and the crushing was so bad we vowed never the stand there again.
It's an odd range of emotions today, between joy that the facts have come to widespread light, relief after so many doors have been slammed shut - but also deep and utter bitter resentment that it's taken 23 years to get this far.

Bitterness at the likes of Blunkett twittering his horror today at the cover-up when his government didn't even bother to take a second look.
Resentment at journalists suddenly finding their teeth today and questioning the police and the authorities when they've had 23 years to look for the truth. It has been pretty evident that it'd be worth having a peek. They've accepted smears for all these years - never a good idea to accept the words of the police as the unequivocal truth during times of crisis.

But a great step forward for the campaign, the city, the Families. The likes of Anne Williams are amazing individuals.

[runcible]

One of the families summed it up today by saying that that they were still the losers despite today's findings - they lost family members at a football match which doesn't bear thinking about.

No matter what today showed the bottom line is that lots of people got fucked over in a way rarely seen in this country, and that they didn't actually win anything and are still at the same point they were 23 years ago - albeit before the cover-up began. At least now they look like they might find some minuscule satisfaction that something might be done to redress the horrible errors of that day.

[spzretent]

I remember the day this happened. With what little media attention it received over here in the US.
Tonight ESPN aired a two hour documentary by Daniel Gordon.
I had no idea the needless pain and suffering they put these poor familes through. The head of the police unit who froze and started the lie to cover his ass to the coroner and all those involved in the police cover up. Are any of them in jail?
The bullshit about drunk Liverpool fans causing this when alcholo played little part in this.
I never knew the depths of the deception.
Horrible.
Makes me happy for Liverpool Fc, their fans and their current run.

[runcible]

It's rare that an event in football can unite opposing fans. Sadly it usually takes death to do that - this is the worst example of course but there have been others. I found the footage of the ceremonial event at Anfield very moving, particularly when Roberto Martinez stood up to huge applause - hats off to everyone there for that. Plus his words were spot on - 'you've taken on the wrong city'.

The nature of what happened is just beyond belief, but everyone knows that. I hope that this time justice can be done. It can't change all the horror and lies, but maybe those responsible will finally be brought to task.

[James T]

Always great to see clubs from around the world show support for the families at this time of year, and especially great to see Martinez get such a great response and give such a moving speech at Anfield. Shame that sky cut short his speech cause he went "off-script".

[johnnyboy]

I'm not trolling at all here, to do so on a thread about Hillsborough would be disgusting and against my nature, but I was thinking about the Heysel disaster the other day and came across this interesting article on a Liverpool website just now.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2013/05/w ... or-heysel/

I can remember watching it on TV at the time, I was only 12. It all seemed very unreal, confusing, shocking and horrible at the time, really chaotic scenes, and it's true that it's almost a taboo subject now as it doesn't really get much attention. Does it?

4 years later there was the horror of Hillsborough, and again I remember watching that unfold on TV, and I've seen harrowing and moving documentaries about it all since. The cover up was and still is a disgrace and hopefully some justice will finally be done.

But what of Heysel? It's so strange that it's an even bigger taboo in Turin. I'm really not sure why this is.

Just wondering how Liverpool fans feel about it all now. Sorry if this isn't the time or place to post this one but I think it is an interesting story to raise.

[KingHarry]

I'm not trolling at all here, to do so on a thread about Hillsborough would be disgusting and against my nature, but I was thinking about the Heysel disaster the other day and came across this interesting article on a Liverpool website just now.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2013/05/w ... or-heysel/

I can remember watching it on TV at the time, I was only 12. It all seemed very unreal, confusing, shocking and horrible at the time, really chaotic scenes, and it's true that it's almost a taboo subject now as it doesn't really get much attention. Does it?

4 years later there was the horror of Hillsborough, and again I remember watching that unfold on TV, and I've seen harrowing and moving documentaries about it all since. The cover up was and still is a disgrace and hopefully some justice will finally be done.

But what of Heysel? It's so strange that it's an even bigger taboo in Turin. I'm really not sure why this is.

Just wondering how Liverpool fans feel about it all now. Sorry if this isn't the time or place to post this one but I think it is an interesting story to raise.

I understand, strangely, that there is a sense of some shame attached to Heysel in Turin - this based upon how the players celebrated so freely in the stadium in the immediate aftermath. It was their first European Cup, they were the coming team of Europe, and they celebrated the victory. I watched a *tremendous* documentary where Platini in particular came in for lots of criticism for this, as the players were all aware of the deaths inside the ground.

I still remember the night vividly. We had watched the 84 European Cup final win v Roma at friends' house (we never had a telly!) the year before, so went again. It was surreal. Liverpool fans had never had a reputation for thuggery abroad - casual thieving yes, but little to no fighting - so to see the events unfold was astonishing. People more qualified than me (i.e. those that were there) have covered in great detail what happened and how the events unfurled. Undoubtedly what happened in May 1985 was contributed to by what happened when Liverpool had to play the 84 Cup final in Rome. Liverpool fans were heavily outnumbered and there were ambushes and multiple stabbings in the aftermath of Liverpool's victory (it still happens on a far smaller scale to this day, when English fans go to Rome). It meant that the following year Liverpool fans would not stand down.
It's certainly the most shameful event in Liverpool's history. Both clubs did much in the immediate aftermath to try and rebuild relations - understandably many Juve fans didn't and don't want to know.
There's a good piece on it in Tony Evan's book Far Foreign Land.