ATP/Jabberwocky Festival

[Shinesalight]

Anyone else been witnessing the awful fallout on Facebook/Twiiter following ATPs cancellation of this weekends Jaberwocky Festival 3 days before it was meant to start? I personally didn't have a ticket or intend going to this but can see both sides of the argument. Feel so sorry for those that had booked travel and accommodation for this but at the same time the venom that is being vented towards ATP is truly something to behold.

Anyone on here buy tickets for this? Is this the final straw for ATP? And what does this mean for small, niche, alternative festivals in general?

[mojo filters]

I first heard of this on a consumer rights programme this lunchtime on Radio 4. Obviously the nature of the show influences the tone of the reporting, but hearing that not just punters but bands due to play, had made the pre-requisite travel arrangements (and cleared their schedules) for this event - only to find out this morning (very close to the event) it was cancelled, I temporarily revisited my opinion of the ATP folks, pending more information.

I appreciate the reason why they made the decision to cancel the event was valid, but to leave so many folks with expensive expenses - it seems like they may not be the good people I thought they were.

What makes the situation worse is how punters trying to get refunds on their tickets have been bounced between the promoters (ATP) and ticket resellers, with no satisfactory resolution. Plus there seems to be no compensation for any other costs irrevocably incurred in pursuit of attending this event.

Furthermore there are riggers, sound techs, LXs and providers/hire co's all with diaries cleared for this event - at the height of the the season (in terms of their earning ability) - left high and dry with little notice ... at least some of the bands who've travelled for this event are able to arrange alternative gigs; those lower down the food chain are not necessarily so lucky!

If it was Live Nation or similar at least the organisation would be able to compensate appropriately. Unfortunately a relatively small promoter like ATP doesn't have the resources ... at least it would seem.

I know we want to think ATP are a force for good in an ever divergent music scene, but their reasons / excuses heard so far do not incline me to think of them as benevolently as I did prior to today.

However I suspect I am yet to hear all the facts, so with great restrain I'll refrain from passing judgement until I do. But from what I hear so far, I find nothing to incline my opinion to one with any significant degree of sympathy - right now this looks like a royal fuck-up - though I appreciate ATP don't have the PR clout to defend their perspective, unfortunately I so far see little evidence of them making any concerted effort.

I hope this doesn't irrevocably damage their reputation, but I suspect for some folks (on whom an organisation like this depends) it already has - regardless of whether they up their game from the poor show exhibited today!

[James T]

To be honest, ATP have always had really good sales or sold out the holiday camp festivals, so why they stopped doing the sell-outs everyone enjoyed in favour of dogshit like this I have no idea. We all know they have failed to pay bands in the past, and even failed to pay venues. How is this possible when it is a sell out? Terrible maths?

Also, Jabberwocky looked like the worst idea ever to me. AWFUL venue for any music, let alone bands like earth and jesu. And how many festivals can you have like this aimed at the same group of people? WE CAN'T AFFORD 5 OR 6 OR 7 FESTIVALS A YEAR. I could never see this selling out, the main headliner has played every festival going over the past year and also done 3 or 4 nights in london and a small uk tour. Everyone who wants to see these bands has seen them maybe apart from 2 or 3. There was nothing that stood out about this festival to me, nothing. There was nothing interesting about the setting, the venue, the line-up... It looked like a terrible idea and it seems to have ended up being just that.

I know there is a shitload we don't know, but with the success of their events in the past, I can only see that they must have made a total mess of something along the way and are just digging a deeper hole.

I don't have any doubts that Barry is trying to do this stuff with the best of intentions, but someone has to just tell the guy to give it up and get things in order before carrying on with anything else. 1 holiday camp festival a year and some good shows in London, that is a reasonable idea. Too many side shows here and there and the label and stuff like that, not necessary.

The ticket issue is a total fuck up. If atp have the money and are passing people over to dash, that is FUCKED. If dash gave the money to atp in advance of the event, are they stupid? They can't be that stupid? Hand over the ticket money from your customers to a company in administration and with a track record of cancelling events and not paying people correctly/on-time when they do go ahead.

Nothing about this seems sinister to me, just a hell of a lot of stupidity all round. Really dumb.

[mojo filters]

I would have agreed about the "dumb", but now I see ATP promoting at least one gig this weekend with one of the headline acts ... plus the Dash refund debacle, who'd trust them now?

...but whoever thought that was a good festival venue - very dumb, especially when we know it wasn't even their 1st choice venue!

Hope Jason gets a better offer than the Iceland 2015 gig; can't imagine that'll be going ahead now - anyone here planned on going?

Such a shame that Stuart Murdoch's vision of a great alternative festival has shit the bed, after so many decent events

[sunray]

This is the first i've even heard of this festival. Have to agree with James on the plethora of festies, it's fucking ridiculous. They should take his advice and just have one, maybe two, a year, a few gigs and leave it at that.

I'm off now to read all about this debacle.

[angelsighs]

I've been following this with interest. it's all a bit worrying. Like Shines, I wasn't going to this festival but still concerned about what it's cancellation means for ATP.
cancelling it this close to the day can't have been an easy decision to make, but still... what a kick in the balls for fans who have booked hotels etc. any level of trust from fans now has been totally obliterated.
I actually thought the lineup was pretty good. perhaps lacking a big exclusive but a great and solid undercard. the price was great too. the venue was a bit wtf but I guess fits in with ATPs trend of putting on festivals in unusual places (I'm sure people thought the holiday camp idea was weird at first too).

maybe ATP's day has just been and gone? I do think it was a mistake when they diversified too much. One UK holiday camp weekender a year only please. the Iceland lineup was great, but I'm not traipsing all the way to Iceland for it (and how much must that have cost to put on??)

I reckon the normal gigs they put on may have been subsidising the loss-making festivals to some extent. they have put on some great bands. I hope if they go tits up, somebody else steps in and does what they do, and perhaps makes it less London-centric too

[mojo filters]

The problem is they already went bust (i.e. bankruptcy, receivership) a few years ago, owing money left right and centre. They then relaunched as a new entity, with support from bigger players like Primevera (sp?) and others - presumably to give reassurance to folks who got badly burned by the collapse of the previous company.

The fact that for this event they had to use a ticket agency in New Zealand, looks indicative of the lack of trust and goodwill amongst more local agencies. The hassles caused by the refund debacle only serve to give further credibility to this concern (though in respect of this specific aspect I concede I'm just speculating).

Now the fact that the current iteration of ATP has recently filed debt-laden accounts is well known, it's hard to see how they'll progress future events. The music/festival promotion business is a small world, and when the terrible PR from this fiasco is factored in, I can't see cautious promoters giving them a third chance - though I for one will be sorry to see them go under, I expect folks involved in all aspects of this business will be less forgiving - and I don't blame them; the festival business is mostly made up of sole traders and small companies - it's not like Yamaha or L'Acoustics have money at risk here!

As others have suggested it seems a classic case of overreaching, in terms of the quantity and scale of events (similar to the circumstances that brought down the previous business) ... and right now that seems like the kindest thing to say in the face of the inevitable uncertain future now faced by ATP.

[The Dr]

pathetic

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A band have allegedly been asked by promoters All Tomorrow's Parties to pull out of a Jabberwocky festival replacement show due to 'contractual obligations'.

The Van Pelt were due to play The Shacklewell Arms in Hackney Downs, London, on Saturday (August 16) alongside Metz and Iceage, but a note posted on the event's Facebook page says that the band can no longer appear due to a deal made with the promoters of the failed festival. It reads: "We're very sad to say that The Van Pelt can't play this show now due to contractual obligations with ATP."

A number of bands who were scheduled to perform at Jabberwocky, including Neutral Milk Hotel, have begun arranging replacement gigs around London. Click here for the latest listings and to see where bands will be playing on Friday and Saturday.

A statement from All Tomorrow's Parties says ticketholders for the cancelled Jabberwocky event, which was due to take place at London's Excel Centre tomorrow (August 15) and Saturday should contact their own banks for a refund if the ticket agent Dash Tickets will not pay up.

The organisers of the cancelled event directed ticketholders back to the point of purchase for a refund. The majority of tickets were sold by the agent Dash Tickets, but Dash have released their own statement stating that they passed on all money from sales of the tickets to the festival organiser. They add that they are "very keen to learn where the money has gone" and are pursuing legal action to recover money they have spent as part of their business relationship with the festival.

A statement on ATP's Facebook page reiterates the assertion that it is not ATP's responsibility to refund tickets. The statement reads: "To confirm, even though some outlets may take longer than others, it is ATP's only goal to ensure that all customers receive their due refund. For the vast majority of people, Dash Tickets will be their point of purchase. It is their responsibility to refund the customer, as they were the company that took payments; not ATP. And if Dash are not being helpful facilitating this matter, your next point of contact should be directly with your bank or card provider to order a chargeback of your purchase amount."

[semisynthetic]

In my Email, are a number of Promotions for this Non Event, and although my current situation makes it impossible for me to have even considered going, I would have liked to. It has been ages since I enjoyed a proper "vacation" or something like it; (so I DID "daydream" a bit about what I would do and where I would go if it WERE possible).

I would have found many more things to do than I possibly could have managed, even if I did have my travel plans made and tickets for Planes, Trains and Automobiles made; along with Hotel reservations and so on.

But how pitifully done this was! To hype this thing over and over and then "poof"; it gives an excellent example to explain the term "anticlimactic" to a youngster! Most people who DID book tickets and all the rest will surely have a wonderful time in the UK and Europe; I always did; but to find an entity this unreliable requires explanation and an analysis of WHAT HAPPENED!

In the last few years, I have purchased items from ATP, and whenever a problem arose, only 2-3 times, they were quick to take care of it and make certain I obtained what was purchased; but there is huge difference between a 100 pound order of Music and Ephemera and the expense of a cross Atlantic trip and all that is entailed! Certainly, in the future, I will take what they say with a grain of salt. Something is fishy here; and it will probably turn out to be something no one would be proud of.

Even IF people who booked and bought have now been forced into a different vacation or week than they had planned, it is simply wrong; you can never truly reimburse people for lost time, and I am certain that many who DID book and buy are disappointed they will miss some real aspect of a show that won't be. It will be interesting and likely not very pretty to see how this mess is sorted out. I feel for all of those who were innocent and hurt by others in this "event".

[simonkeeping]

Still chasing down my refund for this. Really gutted as I was looking forward to it for a long time. Paypal seem to be on it though, as the tennis match or being batted between ATP and Dash tickets was getting more than a little annoying and worrying. Dash tickets? heard of them? No me neither. It appears Seetickets refused to work with ATP anymore, I'm guessing due to financial reasons which speaks volumes. If you can't afford to pay your ticket agency then surely your whole business model is screwed? They tweeted last Monday in response to question from paying punters that there was no chance of this event being cancelled. Then Tuesday afternoon I receive an email - Sorry it's cancelled.

I, Like may people on this forum (I suspect) have had some some good times at ATP events. They are always great to attend and the atmosphere is really open and inclusive. The weekends away were really well done. Loads of like minded people all holed up in some freakshow holiday camp getting drunk and listening to weirdo bands, what could be better? Plus, they are a great way to discover new music. But, I will think twice if they weather this storm whether I pay out to go to one again.

I wonder If Neil Young is waiting to get paid?

[James T]

Wouldn't be surprised if having to pay him in full immediately was the reason they've not been able to take the hit on this.

[simonkeeping]

That would make sense. Those Jabberwocky fallout shows were highlighted a little too late. its a good idea in principle but not sure I want to pay to see the same band twice.

This is interesting too: http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicb ... o-surprise

[plastic37]

And how many festivals can you have like this aimed at the same group of people? WE CAN'T AFFORD 5 OR 6 OR 7 FESTIVALS A YEAR.

Yeah, i think that's a key point. I have no idea how many people constitute the market for this type of thing. Less than five/ten thousand?
The talent pool is an issue too.
And the aging audience but i haven't really thought it through well enough to make a coherent comment beyond: "Earth? Again?"
And the fact that we are now 10+ years down the line. For now i feel like i have had my fill and have felt no compulsion to attend another shebang this year.

I've been following this with interest.

Me too - its actually very entertaining. I feel for all concerned and am relieved that my gig going career has featured no such losses due to cancellations.

concerned about what it's cancellation means for ATP.

I'm not. Time for some new kids on the block. And for some old hands who have a firmer hand on the numbers to keep on delivering the goods - http://www.supersonicfestival.com/

Good luck with getting your refunds. I feel sure that you will.
And next time Supersonic is on i really can't recommend it enough.

[plastic37]

I don't have any doubts that Barry is trying to do this stuff with the best of intentions, [/quote]

I used to think that until i read an interview in which he said something along the lines of "promoting gigs is like going to the races" - and he has repeated a similar line in at least one other interview.

In fact whilst slating the original article where that line appears - the infamous Stool Pigeon piece that actually gave us the numbers on the insolvency, he used the line again.
http://issuu.com/loudandquiet/docs/loud ... 392#search

[James T]

Maybe a bad choice of phrase, but I agree, promoting gigs is a gamble and you make sometimes and lose others. The fact he has been awful with money, to me, doesn't relate to that quote.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a bit of an idiot.

[angelsighs]

concerned about what it's cancellation means for ATP.

I'm not. Time for some new kids on the block. And for some old hands who have a firmer hand on the numbers to keep on delivering the goods - http://www.supersonicfestival.com/

Good luck with getting your refunds. I feel sure that you will.
And next time Supersonic is on i really can't recommend it enough.

Supersonic is a cracking festival. went a couple of years ago, was one of the best lineups I've seen in recent years, topped off by a Carlton Melton set that blew my head off. however I think they sometimes need to step back from the art installations/avant garde stuff, and pull it back to just good underground music. it really is all about the music for me.
this years festival was much more scaled down, and Capsule don't even seem to be putting on many gigs lately so not sure what the future of the festival is.
I think one of the main things about ATP was the unique setting where you get a proper bed etc.. as soon as they started moving away from the holiday camp thing it wasn't the same for me.. travelling and staying over in London (or Iceland!) just adds more hassle