Scottish Referendum

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spacemanrich
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Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

The vote for Scottish Referendum is little over a week from now ( Sept.18 ) and I've been following it with some interest via The Economist and The Guardian. It doesn't affect me, but is a major decision for the Scots to decide their future. Seems like the cons overwhelm the pros in this case. If Scotland wins the referendum where will the $ come from ? They say the North Sea has about 10-15 years left of crude oil under it ( could be shorter time period ) ? I'm afraid Scottish whiskey and wool won't cover the budget. Don't forget that the RBS ( Royal Bank of Scotland ) was bailed out in the tune of 46 billion pounds by the english gov't in 2008. Now they say that RBS has squandered this bailout and is bleeding heavily ( in losses ) and it is costing the average UK citizen 1,500 pounds each ! Not to mention that they would have to re-apply for EU status as a country. J.K. Rowling is a no vote for the secession and was spot on in her argument. " If this thing doesn't succeed, my family and I will be fine. I'm just worried about the average Scot if a wrong decision is made. " Seems like the " no " vote is ahead a bit in the most recent surveys and polls. Will be interesting what the outcome will be...
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

Actually the "Yes" campaign are starting to edge ahead by 1 - 2 % points in the most recent polls, so it's getting a bit close for comfort!

I live in the north, with close family from/living in Scotland, so as an issue it potentially affects me.

If I were a naive and playful 16 - 18 year old eligible to vote, I suspect it would be very tempting to vote 'Yes'. Not because I want an independent Scotland, but more to provide some quality substantive education and entertainment over the next 3 years while I kill time waiting to graduate university.

Compared to the well-trodden and predictable Thatcher/Major period that bored me when I studied politics, the uncertain potential resulting from a vote for the fish folks would be a wonderful goldmine of political nuggets.

I suspect I'd be tempted to vote yes regardless, if I were younger and up for some exciting political comedy. If Salmond, Sturgeon and the rest of the pond people win on Sept. 18th it will be the start of a fascinating political process.

With the benefit of experience and sympathy for my own family, I can't see much good coming from a yes vote. I admit I'd love to see the self-righteous Scottish Nationalists begin to tear apart their own movement - when they get down to the serious business of nation-building that would be required, if they had their way.

However watching Alex Salmond et al get hoist by their own petard would be a mere distraction, as I honestly believe a yes vote would send Scotland into economic freefall - just look how the market reacted to the most recent polls!

It's interesting to get an intelligent take on the issue from an impartial observer. I haven't noticed much reporting of it on MSNBC or other foreign news networks, which surprised me. I'd love to hear Rachel Maddow's take on it, likewise Keith Olberman (though he's still doing the sporty commentary I believe?).

How fairly do you feel the issue gets reported abroad? Has Fox "News" got into it at all, or is it all a bit confusing for those folks? I'd love to watch any of their rent-a-bigot comedians give it the usual Fox treatment ;-)
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niamhm
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by niamhm »

Interesting times indeed. As we close in on the end of a seemingly endless campaign and even the professional pollsters wont call, I must admit to feeling apprehensive, `the hand of history` sort of thing, once in a lifetime chance maybe.

Self determination and being shot of the Tories and slavish adherence to the markets, certainly has its appeal.

Spacemanrich? RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) was a private company, as the one time biggest bank in the world floundered, the BRITISH government had little choice to pump £46 billion in, to big to fail apparently. The government got an 81% stake in return, what that says about their present troubles I`m not sure. As for The oil & gas reserves being finished in 10/15 yrs , where are you getting that from?

The establishment seems to have taken fright at recent polls giving Yes a narrow lead, and we now have the three main party leaders, plus that arse Farage, parading round the country extolling the virtues of the Union, oh and Nick Griffin calling me a `Marxist Fenian` if I vote Yes, which is nice.

To be honest, the campaign has turned quite nasty, and can only get worse. After the 18th Sept. one way or another things will never be the same, an independent country or still in the Union but the political landscape changed for good never to be the same.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by KingHarry »

It's concerning.

The campaign has been under-played south of the border - I believe Whitehall and the press made the assumption early on that the whole thing was somewhat ridiculous, Salmond was slick but a bit of chancer, and that the whole Yes campaign would inevitably fall on its arse.
It seems only in the past week that most English people have woken up to the fact that this could actually happen - and most right thinking people are appalled by it.

Niamhm - I can sympathise with the view that this is the chance to being shot of the Tories, and I'd suggest the worst thing for the Unionist vote would be to allow Cameron and Osborne north of Berwick during the course of the next week. I'd be interested to see what the demographic breakdown of the Yes / No vote is - I suspect there must be quite a generational split. I'm just hoping that when push comes to shove people will wake up and realise the enormity of it and vote No, as I've always seen myself as British rather than English and Scotland contributes massively to what Britain is.
It's concerning that the No campaign seems to have only woken up to the real danger of a loss in last few days and this rather late showering of further devolution gifts looks a little desperate.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

spacemanrich wrote:The vote for Scottish Referendum is little over a week from now ( Sept.18 ) and I've been following it with some interest via The Economist and The Guardian. It doesn't affect me, but is a major decision for the Scots to decide their future. Seems like the cons overwhelm the pros in this case. If Scotland wins the referendum where will the $ come from ? They say the North Sea has about 10-15 years left of crude oil under it ( could be shorter time period ) ? I'm afraid Scottish whiskey and wool won't cover the budget. Don't forget that the RBS ( Royal Bank of Scotland ) was bailed out in the tune of 46 billion pounds by the english gov't in 2008. Now they say that RBS has squandered this bailout and is bleeding heavily ( in losses ) and it is costing the average UK citizen 1,500 pounds each ! Not to mention that they would have to re-apply for EU status as a country. J.K. Rowling is a no vote for the secession and was spot on in her argument. " If this thing doesn't succeed, my family and I will be fine. I'm just worried about the average Scot if a wrong decision is made. " Seems like the " no " vote is ahead a bit in the most recent surveys and polls. Will be interesting what the outcome will be...
Where do I start? A veritable mine of misinformation... what is this, Fox News?

Firstly - "the cons overwhelm the pros" - excuse me? Try working and living just to keep your head above water in Scotland (or worse) and tell me how it couldn't be any better... because it would be hard to see how it could be worse.

I'm no fan of Nationalism nor Salmond and his cronies, and I've never voted for the SNP and won't be voting for them next Thursday either: rather I'm voting for an idea, for the hope that Scotland can thrive and flourish and succeed on it's own terms - rather than being ruled by an effete, elitist, blood-thirsty and clueless mob of bastards. Just to see the back of those scumbags forever in Scotland is a good enough reason to vote Yes to be honest...

Also nice to see Scotland, bereft of oil, would only have whisky and wool (?) to trade internationally with. Eh? Wake up Rich. The 'fitba' thread is clearly your forte, you just sound daft here.

As for the oil, google Clare Ridge and then tell me more about this "10-15 years" thing. Pfft...

JK Rowling? She may have made billions (or whatever) from her tales of boy-wizards and shit but let's not pretend she's any kind of authority here. Try reading what George Monbiot has to say instead.

The Better Together campaign did this hilarious open letter roping in various media twats and celebs to persuade the good Scottish people to vote no: Mick Jagger, Simon Cowell, Kirstie Allsopp, Sting and Cliff Richard are included. The only response possible - other than gales of laughter - is to offer these patronizing, millionaire idiots a healthy 'fuck you'.

The full list is here by the way...
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Laz69
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Laz69 »

Unfortunately the race to the finish post has been taking a rather nasty turn in recent weeks. For this alone, i can't wait until its all over and done with and also with all the FORCED FED propaganda being rammed down our throats by people on both sides.

Basically there are no guarantees with either a yes or no vote. IMO the UK as an entity is no longer fit for purpose for all the different areas within it, and us Scots have a chance to take our destiny in our own hands. The yes campaign has been full of positives and (sometimes over the top) promises whereas the no campaign has been nothing but doom and scare tactics.

Personally, i have heard nothing from the no side that makes me think that staying within the UK is in our best interests so im willing to take a chance on going it for ourselves and seeing how it pans out. If it goes to shit, then its our shit and we'll deal with it. I prefer that option to staying in a UK that is heading in a direction that i don't like and which only has a small proportion of its citizens interests at heart (ie the south east).

There are many areas of the Uk that are disillusioned with the way this country is but we are fortunate in that we have an opportunity to change how things are.

I'm not a fan of Alex Salmond or his SNP cronies, but i have to commend them on fighting for this all the way to the end. The UK government have always laughed off the idea that we would actually achieve independance and has not put any real effort into stopping this from happening until possibly just the last few weeks and now they are shitting themselves that this might very well be a reality. They are now making lots of empty promises to try and win us over right at the death, but nothing has been confirmed by parties so its all just hot air at the moment.

Most people i know are under no illusions to the lifespan of the oil/gas reserves. They are not seen as an infinite goldmine.

Its going to be close. I only hope the decision falls in our favour.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by KingHarry »

Laz69 / Bza

From a south of the border perspective - if we lose the Scottish vote, then unfortunately we will be stuck with a Tory govt for a generation - in fact, it's basically difficult to think how Labour would ever get back in (I accept that they are a watered down version).

For that reason alone, and I accept that it's a pretty narrow minded view, I'm against it. Having said that, I have some sympathy for the Scots feeling this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to try something different.

One thing that is certain is that they will be increasing amounts of mud-slinging, spite and backtracking over the final days and a narrow victory either way - with probable simmering resentment of lost opportunity whatever the result is, but particularly if it's a narrow No.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

BzaSpace, you should check your facts more often. Fox News - you must be joking, right ? Let's try the Economist, is that a proper publication for you or is the Sun better ? Not trying to knock you, but just having a serious disagreement here. Sorry, I also forgot that Scotland has a viable farm-raised fishing industry (salmon), not the politician :P Salmond is a former oil executive and is trying to mislead voters on this issue. Oil revenues (see article below) will decrease in the years ahead and so where will the money come from ? England ? Cameron and Clegg are in Scotland at the moment leading the charge to a ' no ' vote and Cameron just stated, " no turning back. " If 5 years down the line, the Scottish economy is in the gutter then their response is to " sod off. " EU will give you money, look at Greece and Spain where yes they were given a financial lifeline, but it had very stringent terms of repayment - what a headache to deal with them ! And you thought it was bad to deal with England?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/rea ... t-scotland

I brought up J.K. Rowling because she is a Scot (I never said she was an expert). A single mother that had benefited from the social services of England. A single mother on the dole who couldn't afford heating in her flat and so went to the cafe to keep her child warm. Can an independent Scotland maintain those social services that England has provided all those years ? That is the point I was trying to make with Rowling and many like her. The oil was not last forever and then what ? Does Scotland have a viable manufacturing industry that makes cars and microchips like Ireland ? You make it sound like Scotland will be in the top 20 in the world economy ( if independent ) ? In fact, I think some African countries will have a better economy than Scotland.

No easy decisions here, but it will affect this generation and the next. Cameron has made it very clear that once the decision is made, England will not look back.

Yeah, those polls are never that accurate, I think like their 1-2% discrepancy and they swing each week.

Yes, Niahmh it is one of those rare opportunities that KingHarry has mentioned, but not under these conditions and a risk worth not taking.

Unfortunately, no coverage or news about the Scottish vote in the news here in the States. Just robberies, murders and illegal immigrants ...
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by sunray »

mojo filters wrote:I live in the north, with close family from/living in Scotland, so as an issue it potentially affects me.
No potentially about it. A Yes vote will affect everyone within the British Isles. The knock-on effect regarding financial,political and cultural realities will impact Wales and Ireland as well as Scotland and England.

Personally i'd like to see the Yes campaign win just for the sake of a real shake up. Mind you, be careful it doesn't go the way of Irish referendums where if the public votes against what the powers that be want we just get told to vote again until we get it right! :evil: :roll:
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by clewsr »

if I was in Scotland I would be voting yes all the way. I would also vote to bring the the Scottish border down to somewhere north of Milton Keynes.

BTW the recent labour governments would have been labour even without the help of Scottish mps. but to be fair I see no quantifiable difference between labour and Tories and only slightly in terms of presentation. They both have the interests of big business first and foremost.
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Re: "Yesh..."

Post by BzaInSpace »

spacemanrich wrote:BzaSpace, you should check your facts more often. Fox News - you must be joking, right ? Let's try the Economist, is that a proper publication for you or is the Sun better ? Not trying to knock you, but just having a serious disagreement here.
Indeed - me too. I'm glad to see a conversation - anything - that doesn't involve Slowdive... :wink:

Anyway. Checking facts? The Economist?? With a Rothchild and Baroness (formerly Virginia) Bottomley on their board I'm sure their impartiality is all but guaranteed. They also vigourosly supported the Iraq invasion so, y'know, fuck them.
spacemanrich wrote:Sorry, I also forgot that Scotland has a viable farm-raised fishing industry (salmon), not the politician :P Salmond is a former oil executive and is trying to mislead voters on this issue. Oil revenues (see article below) will decrease in the years ahead and so where will the money come from ? England ? Cameron and Clegg are in Scotland at the moment leading the charge to a ' no ' vote and Cameron just stated, " no turning back. "
Cameron, Clegg and Miliband were in Scotland yesterday desperately attempting to persuade the Scottish people to vote 'No', with the bought propaganda of BBC in full swing too. I rather think the bastards are frightened... good. I also wished them nothing but civil disobedience or a helicopter crash but you can't always get what you want.

Like I said I'm no fan of Salmond and his dubious on/off 'friendships' with World-Class arseholes like Murdoch, Goodwin and Trump, but at the very least his majority government here has delivered on some of the most socially progressive policies in years, such as free tuition fees and prescriptions, both of which have made my life immeaurably easier.
spacemanrich wrote:I brought up J.K. Rowling because she is a Scot (I never said she was an expert). A single mother that had benefited from the social services of England. A single mother on the dole who couldn't afford heating in her flat and so went to the cafe to keep her child warm. Can an independent Scotland maintain those social services that England has provided all those years ?
I believe it will - and her benefits were paid via social services in Scotland, not England.

I'd much rather discuss how much money Scotland would save without paying £163 million pa towards the obscenity that is Trident, which we rent from the US. Benefits costs are a viurtual drop in the ocean compared to that madness.
spacemanrich wrote:No easy decisions here, but it will affect this generation and the next. Cameron has made it very clear that once the decision is made, England will not look back.
On the contrary I think it's an easy decision. It's exactly for my children and theirs I'm willing to have hope and a bit of self-belief, something maybe tradionally Scotland has not excelled at.

clewsr wrote:if I was in Scotland I would be voting yes all the way. I would also vote to bring the the Scottish border down to somewhere north of Milton Keynes.

BTW the recent labour governments would have been labour even without the help of Scottish mps. but to be fair I see no quantifiable difference between labour and Tories and only slightly in terms of presentation. They both have the interests of big business first and foremost.
Absolutely. Speaking to my pals south of the the border, there is a heap of support for this although I acknowlege Harry's fear that this cound land England with a Tory government forever. With a UKIP coalition? Terrifying.

Maybe this decision in a week will ultimately lead to a shake-up that rids the entire country of the self-serving, elitist politcial class once and for all. 9% payrise huh... we can hope, although I sense that people might finally have had enough of the bullshit: the lies, the career politicans, the servitude to the fucking markets, the illegal wars...

The great Irvine Welsh makes a compelling argument here in a fine piece of writing - read it.

As Laz acknowledges, the endless propaganda from both sides all year has been tiresome and distracting rather than leading to proper debates - the TV stuff was just garbage. It'll soon be over, one way or another...

Image
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KingHarry
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by KingHarry »

I see Cameron headed straight to the heart of the real Scotland to meet with real people and discuss their issues. Straight into the financial district of Edinburgh. I hail the man - never afraid of likely confrontation or seeking an easy ride (the massive twat)!

Scotland has always had an enviable value for social justice, so there is the potential for a resurgent socialist left to emerge from potential independence - which in itself could influence the political agenda in England. I'm actually starting to hope that they/you go for it.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spzretent »

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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by toomilk »

This came up at a family breakfast (in Los Angeles, mind you) and my brother said something along the lines of, "if it goes through, it's going to have an effect on Europe as a whole and they'll have to change a lot of things, etc etc." But that's the whole fucking points, isn't it?!
Stuart X.Hunter
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

What I've noticed is that a lot of my fellow Scots are less interested in the referendum than colleagues and friends from outside Scotland.

I've maintained for the last few years that you can have the "information" but in the end it comes down to gut instinct.

I feel there's massive amounts of hysteria from both sides but in reality change (and regardless of outcome there will be change) will arrive at a very slow pace.

In my opinion change is absolutely necessary.
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natty
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by natty »

According to David Icke, these are ten things that will happen if Scotland votes for yes. Well, I'm sure he's said all the words in this statement at some point, anyway:

1) Edinburgh will immediately sink into the sea.
2) Smaug will awaken and reduce Glasgow to ashes.
3) Alex Salmond will be revealed as a Sith Emperor.
4) Scotland's economy will crash, and they will be forced into a poker chip type economy, with cans of Irn Bru worth one, haggis worth ten, and highland cattle as hundreds.
5) Margaret Thatcher will rise from the grave and relentlessly traverse England, ethnically cleansing the land from the Scotch.
6) Andy Murray will be rebranded a whining, petulant twat on the decline and everyone will start talking about Fred Perry again.
7) The Proclaimers will be cloned and stationed at every major Scottish tourist attraction.
8) No one will give a shit about curling any more.
9) Everyone will start suspecting that maybe whisky tastes like a poo that's just emerged from a troll's anus.
10) Everyone in Newcastle will start dressing like extras from Game of Thrones and look furtively over their shoulders.

I think they should do it.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

Well done Scotland.

No, really: clearly a majority here actually prefer their unelected, effete, elitist and bloodthirsty overlords to any kind of meaningful positive trajectory for the future.

AKA a fucking wasted opportunity.

Gutted...
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Stuart X.Hunter
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

I'd like to think that the majority of the No count would want change too

I am dissappointed also

Now to hear DC....
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niamhm
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by niamhm »

Disappointed this morning,

It was a big ask, too big for some people, the fear of change,

But I can look myself in the mirror this morning,

Now for what future has to bring,
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

About 10 yrs. ago Quebec also was narrowly defeated in a referendum to breakaway from Canada. Since then I haven't heard of any complaints and " what ifs " from them. I'm sure Madrid is a bit relieved of the outcome and their situation with Catalonia ...
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by niamhm »

Not usually one for splitting hairs S/rich, but Quebec is a province, Scotland is a country,

straightened that out, nationalism, British & Scottish has unleashed some strange ,crazy forces, while things/events are so fluid , its hard to know what`s happening next, then you turn round to the person next to you ...some of the winners today , shouting the most are horrible, right wing , BNP trolls , this is all new, not those troll c#nts :evil:
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

Niahmh, I know. Its a province that wants to be their own independent country. Scotland is a country that takes direction from England. Catalonia is a province that wants to make their own decisions independent of Madrid. Almost similar if you ask me.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

niamhm wrote:Not usually one for splitting hairs S/rich, but Quebec is a province, Scotland is a country,

straightened that out, nationalism, British & Scottish has unleashed some strange ,crazy forces, while things/events are so fluid , its hard to know what`s happening next, then you turn round to the person next to you ...some of the winners today , shouting the most are horrible, right wing , BNP trolls , this is all new, not those troll c#nts :evil:
I was away for the weekend and thankfully missed the nonsense that followed Friday result.

Never fails to amaze me what predominantly male 16-45yr old dressed in terracing gear will do for kicks
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by runaway »

So glad that my supply of Walkers Shortbread will not be interrupted...
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Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

Because that was one of the vital issues affecting our future in Scotland... Jesus.

Still waiting on a response to the points I made regarding your severe lack of clarity on your initial post here Rich - or are you just gonna keep your head in the sand like any other time you're challenged on here?
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spacemanrich
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

Bzalinspace, what the hell are you babbling about ? I'd thought I answered you in the first page ? You didn't get it or I didn't get it ?
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

What? Where? I pretty much demolished your points in the longer post I did earlier, with the gruesome image of Baroness Thatcher.

Ah, you know what, it doesn't matter anymore.

As you might suspect, I remain completely disappointed in the referendum result.

I just feel it was a massive waste of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, fucked up by some of the most odious people in this world and their paid and bought help, including every goddamn newspaper (bar the Scotsman/Herald) in the country plus the truly appalling BBC.

The despicable scaremongering campaign and the likes of Brown and Darling unbelievably keeping Cameron in a job (WTF?) ensures what was once the Labour Party will join the Lib Dems in facing a rout at the next election.

Worst of all it gives the cabal of millionaires cart blanche to do as they please up here. Having read some of the truly awful comments by the truly awful Boris in recent times it worries me a great deal when he inevitably succeeds his Bullingdon pal as Tory leader and - fuck! - PM.

Anyway some good, measured and calm comment here all round - free of the more hysterical and heavy handed nonsense seen everywhere else. My FB feed threaten to quit last week....

And Mr Hunter. Assuming you mean the horrible Nazi/Unionist fuckwits that infected George Square on Friday?
Disgraceful.
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spacemanrich
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by spacemanrich »

Great. You demolished my points. You win. Get a life now. Decision made by voters last week. Obviously your still holding a grudge by your diatribe. Like you said, " it doesn't matter now. ". Move on. What about those Southampton Black Cats ?
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by olan »

spacemanrich wrote:Great. You demolished my points. You win. Get a life now. Decision made by voters last week. Obviously your still holding a grudge by your diatribe. Like you said, " it doesn't matter now. ". Move on. What about those Southampton Black Cats ?
Sunderland...not Southampton...they are the Saints :roll: or are you just Trolling?
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

Rich - you specified you wanted some kind of meaningful dialogue or discussion.

You spouted a bunch of Coalition-friendly crap from such dubious sources as the RBS, JK Rowling and The Economist.

I challenged these points. You failed to respond to any of them. But there's nothing new there eh.

Get a life?

Well I have to live here following this momentously poor decision of the slight majority of those who voted. So forgive me if I take this seriously.

Must be easy from over there to make shitty, facile comments about fucking shortbread.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by runaway »

BzaInSpace wrote: Must be easy from over there to make shitty, facile comments about fucking shortbread.
It would be easier if this country wasn't economically/culturally/irreparably divided and involved in yet another bombing campaign. You guys have it easy (and you still have Ian Anderson).
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

What the fuck's Ian Anderson got to do with it?

Last time I paid money to see Jethro Tull, they played a load of shite recent material, and the only old/decent song they played was Aqualung. It was a dreadful gig.

As the last good song he wrote was either Songs From the Wood or The Whistler (whichever came later) I see no benefit from having him around ... though obviously I hope he doesn't have more health problems, he did some great work back in the day!
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

runaway wrote:
BzaInSpace wrote: Must be easy from over there to make shitty, facile comments about fucking shortbread.
It would be easier if this country wasn't economically/culturally/irreparably divided and involved in yet another bombing campaign. You guys have it easy (and you still have Ian Anderson).
Yeah? It would also be easier if Scotland was no longer part of Airstrip One, blindly following your government's next foreign bloodbath, a special relationship forged in greed and insanity.

As far as economically and culturally divided, I think Scotland can 'boast' an unhealthy level of that too.

At least we have Irn-Bru.

Ain't democracy wonderful?
mojo filters wrote:Last time I paid money to see Jethro Tull...
Haha! It takes a certain courage to come on here and admit something like that Mojo. I salute you!

(And fuck Ian Anderson: one-legged flute playing, cod-piece sporting salmon farmer...)
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

BzaInSpace wrote:
mojo filters wrote:Last time I paid money to see Jethro Tull...
Haha! It takes a certain courage to come on here and admit something like that Mojo. I salute you!

(And fuck Ian Anderson: one-legged flute playing, cod-piece sporting salmon farmer...)
Aye - these days music definitely plays second fiddle to his salmon farms and other business interests. But back in the day you gotta admire his individual flair, cod-piece notwithstanding!

Here's some electric stage antics from when I'd have been proud to pay money to see a band at their creative peak. It was this footage I saw in a documentary aged about 14, that properly converted me to the mighty Tull cause ...


If only they'd gone out on top, and not befouled their legacy with the often truly awful material they recorded from the eighties onwards :(
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by runaway »

I wasn't aware that Tull recorded music after the 80's, but I'm equally amazed that some crusty Scots, even in their hour of anguish, would speak disparagingly about the great Ian Anderson. Think it might be time for the world to secede from Scotland.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by BzaInSpace »

Please make it so, particularly if it means never having to listen to such madness ever again...
runaway wrote:... the great Ian Anderson
What? It's like I've stepped into the wrong forum...
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411718116.125600.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411718116.125600.jpg (67.2 KiB) Viewed 13818 times
Yeah... You can keep him and his collection of whistles.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by olan »

BzaInSpace wrote:Please make it so, particularly if it means never having to listen to such madness ever again...
runaway wrote:... the great Ian Anderson
What? It's like I've stepped into the wrong forum...
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411718116.125600.jpg
Yeah... You can keep him and his collection of whistles.
Image

WTF????
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

runaway wrote:I wasn't aware that Tull recorded music after the 80's
{snip}
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_discography
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by runaway »

Holy crap! Where did you find that comprehensive discography??
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by olan »

runaway wrote:Holy crap! Where did you find that comprehensive discography??
]Holy crap! Why did you find that comprehensive discography??
:lol:
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

olan wrote:
runaway wrote:Holy crap! Where did you find that comprehensive discography??
]Holy crap! Why did you find that comprehensive discography??
:lol:
:lol: :lol:

Possibly the funniest post on here ever ... can't type more as I will literally piss myself laughing :x
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by olan »

mojo filters wrote:
olan wrote:
runaway wrote:Holy crap! Where did you find that comprehensive discography??
]Holy crap! Why did you find that comprehensive discography??
:lol:
:lol: :lol:

Possibly the funniest post on here ever ... can't type more as I will literally piss myself laughing :x
Thanks a lot, I'm here all week, try the chicken....yaddada yaddada.

I grew up on punk and I have never managed to overcome my dislike of bands like Tull. Usually, I would feel a bit guilty about harbouring a prejudice for so long, but with Tull and their ilk it is important to draw the line firmly :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by jack white »

yea v disappointed in the scots. not just because of ian anderson or franz ferdinand (notthe franz ferdinand, mind) but because of this vote.

ugh. the whole debate seemed lost from the started. people apologetic, "i'm not a nationalist but...". yea nationalism has been tarred w/some intractable baggage & blame during recent yrs & it's image tarnished (& rightfully so to a certain extent).
there seemed to be little or no fire or pride, or belief in themselves.
just resignation & fear. ah fear. it won the day again, really. fear & money. they've replaced the (slightly?) more barbaric tactics of persecution but still.. the bad guys won again. & for what? more of the same old shite. good work.


shame really.
gonna burn brightly
for a while
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

Shoulders back, smash it
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

Shoulders back, smash it
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by Stuart X.Hunter »

For me that opportunity was never about national pride...
Shoulders back, smash it
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by semisynthetic »

I was very interested in the Scottish vote for Independence; and at the time, I was flat on my back and had been for some time already; so, I READ A LOT! I tried to consider all the relevant reasons pro and con; exactly why I was convinced at that time the YES VOTE was so very unlikely is no longer relevant, the vote was cast as I believed it would be; but one of my oldest friends, since 2nd Grade, could not fathom the idea that Scotland would refuse Independence! The Idea was simply not possible and surely, he thought, Independence from England was a sure thing, something desirable and this chance was not going to be lost! I did try and share my thoughts and reasoning on the vote, but he would have none of it; "I underestimated the longing to finally escape (what he called English Domination by Colonization)"; so there was no way the Scottish people would vote no; as I tried to talk to him, getting injections and feeling rather uncomfortable, he insisted on a wager - $1000 - that the Scottish WOULD VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE! Normally, I never wager more than a dime; it is my sort of silly way of saying I am certain; but I did bet him $1000; and he lost, and he called me in complete disbelief; so I again stated point by point why I was as certain as I was; the poor guy was genuinely sad, not for himself or the wager, he was very sad for the Scottish! I told him to forget the bet, bit he insisted, mailing me a check before he called! So, I still have this check, and I just feel terrible about taking the money, so maybe I will send him back $999.80; thus keeping my usual dime. You would probably like this character; he is about 6'7", enormously Happy Laugh that just roars; and still is very much like I remember him in 2nd grade; a great big happy kid. His size has tempered any anger over the years; and although I have not actually seen him in years, Olde Friends are Dearest, and whether a week or a decade passes, it is just like you have seen them yesterday when you DO meet; I have noticed this about my truest and oldest friends for years; and it seems to become truer with time. I have maybe three such friends still here; and everytime I do see them, it is just like yesterday.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by ORBITAL »

semisynthetic wrote:I was very interested in the Scottish vote for Independence; and at the time, I was flat on my back and had been for some time already; so, I READ A LOT! I tried to consider all the relevant reasons pro and con; exactly why I was convinced at that time the YES VOTE was so very unlikely is no longer relevant, the vote was cast as I believed it would be; but one of my oldest friends, since 2nd Grade, could not fathom the idea that Scotland would refuse Independence! The Idea was simply not possible and surely, he thought, Independence from England was a sure thing, something desirable and this chance was not going to be lost! I did try and share my thoughts and reasoning on the vote, but he would have none of it; "I underestimated the longing to finally escape (what he called English Domination by Colonization)"; so there was no way the Scottish people would vote no; as I tried to talk to him, getting injections and feeling rather uncomfortable, he insisted on a wager - $1000 - that the Scottish WOULD VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE! Normally, I never wager more than a dime; it is my sort of silly way of saying I am certain; but I did bet him $1000; and he lost, and he called me in complete disbelief; so I again stated point by point why I was as certain as I was; the poor guy was genuinely sad, not for himself or the wager, he was very sad for the Scottish! I told him to forget the bet, bit he insisted, mailing me a check before he called! So, I still have this check, and I just feel terrible about taking the money, so maybe I will send him back $999.80; thus keeping my usual dime. You would probably like this character; he is about 6'7", enormously Happy Laugh that just roars; and still is very much like I remember him in 2nd grade; a great big happy kid. His size has tempered any anger over the years; and although I have not actually seen him in years, Olde Friends are Dearest, and whether a week or a decade passes, it is just like you have seen them yesterday when you DO meet; I have noticed this about my truest and oldest friends for years; and it seems to become truer with time. I have maybe three such friends still here; and everytime I do see them, it is just like yesterday.
Gibberish.
Work is the scourge of the drinking classes
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by semisynthetic »

No doubt; absolute Gibberish; I am not a very good writer, I know that.

But I was very interested in this vote; as was my old friend, swayed by his ties to Scotland; at least I was willing to share my thoughts on the vote, albeit from far away. I did not choose to simply belittle what anyone else wrote with but a single word.
If what I wrote was somehow offensive, that was not at all my intention; just to share the interest by an old friend and myself on a Vote we both had opposing opinions on; not to be rude or unkind to anyone, it was a little trip of memories, too; and I cannot grasp the disdain for my "Gibberish". If the wagering on the event bothered you, it was more a matter of fun on my side than it was his; I was convinced the vote would not pass; but part of me hoped it would, in spite of what I believed the outcome would be or why.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by semisynthetic »

MOJO FILTERS

asked about the coverage in other countries, the USA, et cetera. Overall it was terrible in the USA; I think the only way to learn much about something this specific was to read the Scottish Papers, US Gov Reports; The Wall Street Journal had more detail than most in the USA; I saw a "no" propaganda segment on NBC, I don't usually watch much NBC, but I tried to read and watch Euro Programing, there was a lot going on in the world; and as usual, if you want to learn, chase down all you can by everything and every method available to you; that is what I did, and I learned quite a bit that is new to me; I believe it is difficult to put something as convoluted and complex as this vote into 1 or 2 minute spots on the TV news; and a lot of the stuff I saw on the Internet was really garbage. Elaborate blogs disguised as News. That is how I saw the coverage; sparse and without much detail as a rule. This was frustrating to me, because I wanted to know more, so I went after it myself.
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by mojo filters »

semisynthetic wrote: {snip}

he insisted on a wager - $1000 - that the Scottish WOULD VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE! Normally, I never wager more than a dime; it is my sort of silly way of saying I am certain; but I did bet him $1000; and he lost, and he called me in complete disbelief; so I again stated point by point why I was as certain as I was; the poor guy was genuinely sad, not for himself or the wager, he was very sad for the Scottish! I told him to forget the bet, bit he insisted, mailing me a check before he called! So, I still have this check, and I just feel terrible about taking the money, so maybe I will send him back $999.80; thus keeping my usual dime.

{snip}
Maybe you should use some of that free time to brush up on your maths, unless a dime is worth more round your way ;)
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Re: Scottish Referendum

Post by semisynthetic »

"maths"?

Apparently you must be relegated to using a tiny screened Phone, as I am for now. Easy to carry, but typographical errors are just as easy with numbers as they are with simple words.
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