UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

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The Dr
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UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by The Dr » Thu May 07, 2015 7:58 am

voting day- get out folks!

rock the vote!
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by BzaInSpace » Thu May 07, 2015 9:03 am

Death To The Tory Coalition.

Here's hoping anyway...
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by mojo filters » Thu May 07, 2015 12:31 pm

No point voting where I live - Labour have such a big majority (which they take for granted) the token opposition candidates from the other two parties neither live locally nor have actually visited the constituency!

As someone who's observed Labour incompetence and nepotism over the years, from the drones who have virtually no opposition at all levels of government - I'm looking forward to seeing those Scottish Labour seats going, then they might rethink taking our area for granted!

The indecision indicated by the polls suggests we'll be in for interesting constitutionally uncharted territory, in the coming days and weeks. Can't see the end result varying much from a minority Labour regime and Queen's Speech, with a SNP confidence and supply arrangement in all but name. But it'll be good fun watching how we end up there.

I've always been sorry I was too young to appreciate the political machinations of the 1970s and early 80s, but I guess this will go some way to make up for it. Still think today's political class is far less interesting than that of yesteryear ... Nigel Farage is mildly amusing but hardly a patch on colourful folks like Jeremy Thorpe. The respectable face of racism is no match for a flamboyant, flaming and raving rent-boy murder-conspiring married homosexual, with a predilection for picking up young men for casual relations in the most unsavoury fashion - all covered up by the usual establishment suspects.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by The Dr » Thu May 07, 2015 4:12 pm

mojo filters wrote: flamboyant, flaming and raving rent-boy murder-conspiring married homosexual, with a predilection for picking up young men for casual relations in the most unsavoury fashion - all covered up by the usual establishment suspects.

so a lib-dem?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by semisynthetic » Thu May 07, 2015 10:46 pm

I watched the UK "pre-game Show" for about 2 hours yesterday; it was all very interesting to me, I enjoy watching Politics, but certainly not as much as I once did. The Time of comparison of Ideas instead of ram-rodding legislation was much better and more civil, (but of course I refer to the USA). I wouldn't pretend to know that much about the British way of governance, the details and nuances, although I believe I have a rough Idea, but I am observing, not attempting to trash Britain.

I wanted to see the candidates and the faces that matched up with so many names I have read or heard about but not seen. As an observer, I did get the impression that the contrived, by the script, "made for TV News" scenes were the results of the close race; the major parties virtually a dead heat, a tie, at that point. So, they play it safe so nothing goes wrong to tilt the news cycle. The same thing happens in elections in most places, certainly I see it at times during an election here in the US.

It was very interesting to see more of a Scottish showing; it wasn't so long ago that when a map of the UK was shown, so was the border between England and Scotland; but that has melted away, and perhaps is symbolic of how at least SOME of the Scottish people feel a sort of loss of identity, and with it, a desire to reclaim some of their Heritage, or in time, to possibly regain there independence, something I did not see as at all possible in the last Referendum. The very idea of "nationalism" is almost like an obscene word in the British Press, or UK; I suppose it makes sense given a very long and Ancient History; where land in Europe and the UK was so limited, that Colonialism existed to try and keep pace between the Olde European powers; but despite the euro and new rules on electronic exchanges in Europe, Nationalism certainly still exists. I miss the different coins from each country; but if the idea was to blur Europe into "one homogenous unit", it failed. It was a very good Idea to stay with the English Pound rather than exchange for euros.

The BBC has a very nice "Eye in the Sky" Map showing the fairly clearly demarcated lines between parties and factions.

One fellow that was of great interest to me for what he carried and said; a book of the Parliament's rules, (as best as I could understand), "because we have no real Constitution, but instead a sort of book of guidelines"; that struck home with me, for having a System like the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights is as central to my thinking as I imagine the Monarchy once was for the UK, or certainly England. I'm certain many of you would recognize him, but not surprisingly, he was unknown to me.

In all of Europe, no other people were as genuinely polite and helpful to me on every trip I took there; despite the problems inherent in EVERY country and people, I saw a pride and genuine love of country from almost everyone I met there, from London to the countryside.

I will be interested in the outcome; though I think it will take time to form a government, (at least as I understand it), if so much stays so close in the voting.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by KingHarry » Fri May 08, 2015 10:42 am

I disown my country

Difficult to know what the future of the Labour Party is. A moderate left leaning campaign has been rejected by Middle England, and yet they've been routed in Scotland at the same time. What next? A progressive socialist agenda to re engage with Scotland will only lead to greater Tory control over England. A return to Blairist middle ground will never be accepted by disenfranchised Scots and lead to weakening of support in traditional northern urban heartland.

It's a terrible conundrum - can see us being stuck with these wankers for longer than the Thatcher / Major dynasty.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by jack white » Fri May 08, 2015 10:57 am

BzaInSpace wrote:Death To The Tory Coalition.

Here's hoping anyway...
Well you got the coalition part right.


I hate mornings like today's. Unfortunately there's been too goddamn many of them.
Sadness. Deflation. Hope lost. Again.
The world is so shit sometimes. Too many horrible, stupid, greedy goddamn people.

5 years & no accountability, no one to at least drag or hold them back even so slightly.
Despondant. How people can so readily do this to other people? So sad..
gonna burn brightly
for a while

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by simonkeeping » Fri May 08, 2015 11:07 am

I saw the exit poles come in last night and my heart sank. Waking up this morning it's even worse news. Murdocks (and the other right wing presses) smear campaign has played a vital role in this election. When so many people were on the fence and unsure who to vote for the constant barrage of hatred and fear mongering against those who fight to bring any real political change has swayed so many people. Its like a constand hum of evil. What I find discusting is these rags - The Scum, Daily Mail etc etc are all the supposed 'voice of the people' which is literally the complete opposite of the truth. Owned by billionares who base there companies in the Caymen Islands to avoid a tax bill - so denying money they should rightly pay to the country when it needs it most - there by forcing the bill onto the rest of the country to pick up. Murdock in the last few weeks was telling the editors for the rags he owns they were'nt being savage enough on Miliband. Lobbying the Conservatives to boycott any change to the current tax regulation and as an aside Murdock has invested heavily in Fracking. Funny that the Tories are al guns blazing on that too.

What I can't fathom is why when they shown so consistantly that they don't give a shit about the people of this country and only for the rich and big business why people still vote for them? Any questions about how they intend to raise the money to cover the policies they have put forward are met with a blank silence and 'judge us by our track record'. Then asked how they can cut welfare spending anymore they have no answer either. Excuse my bad language but this country is fucked. More cuts to the already floundering NHS, more welfare cuts, more people thrown out of social housing to make way for more luxury flats, more zero hours contracts to make it look like employent figures are falling, more people using food banks, no chance of a living wage. More money for the rich - less for everyone else. Then they have the nerve to say they are getting this country back on track? They are shutting two of my local hospitals - TWO! Without any thought or any investigation as to how the already crippled infastructure will cope with 3 times as many people using one hosital. And then they said (and this is in the propaganda dropped through my door) we're investing in the NHS locally? Its just blatant lies!

They literally don't care - and now 5 more years of this. For the first time in my life Im actually scared about whats going to happen now. One things for sure, we're heading for some very, very dark days..
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Fri May 08, 2015 1:11 pm

simonkeeping wrote: Murdocks (and the other right wing presses) smear campaign has played a vital role in this election. When so many people were on the fence and unsure who to vote for the constant barrage of hatred and fear mongering against those who fight to bring any real political change has swayed so many people. Its like a constand hum of evil. What I find discusting is these rags - The Scum, Daily Mail etc etc are all the supposed 'voice of the people' which is literally the complete opposite of the truth. Owned by billionares who base there companies in the Caymen Islands to avoid a tax bill .
you are right of course Simon. I think the rabid press completely distorted this election. This whole Vote Labour get SNP scare tactic worked amazingly well into scaring little Englanders. I ca't believe people don't see through it. If the Sun and the Mail didn't exist the collective IQ of the nation would surge.

The other elephant in the room is course labour lost lots of votes to UKIP, which I have no idea how they try to address.

I respect the Scots for incredible solidarity, I wonder if the English could ever achieve the same sense of national identity without looking like UKIP or BNP. English nationalism always looks too distasteful.

Not shedding a tear for the Lib dems, but I don't get them losing seats to the Tories. Madness! But maybe that is back to the fear of the possible Lab / Lib / SNP coalition that never was.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by KingHarry » Fri May 08, 2015 1:31 pm

clewsr wrote:
simonkeeping wrote: Murdocks (and the other right wing presses) smear campaign has played a vital role in this election. When so many people were on the fence and unsure who to vote for the constant barrage of hatred and fear mongering against those who fight to bring any real political change has swayed so many people. Its like a constand hum of evil. What I find discusting is these rags - The Scum, Daily Mail etc etc are all the supposed 'voice of the people' which is literally the complete opposite of the truth. Owned by billionares who base there companies in the Caymen Islands to avoid a tax bill .

Not shedding a tear for the Lib dems, but I don't get them losing seats to the Tories. Madness! But maybe that is back to the fear of the possible Lab / Lib / SNP coalition that never was.
It's like all the half wits who voted Libdem last time only to be horrified that their vote effectively became a Tory one, decided to punish the Libdems ... By voting fckn Tory!!!
You despair at the total fkcwittery of England

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Fri May 08, 2015 1:45 pm

indeed.

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FUCK CAMERON & OSBORNE

Post by BzaInSpace » Fri May 08, 2015 1:52 pm

mojo filters wrote:No point voting where I live...
Ridiculous. Every vote counted in this, and indeed all elections. Despite the sham of a democracy we're left with in the first past the post system, every vote matters. Even Russell fucking Brand at the last minute switched from his absurd 'no point in voting and we'll have a sexy revolution' crap to urge people to vote...

Otherwise, some great and heartfelt stuff here. For the first time since I was eligible to vote I didn't vote Labour - their machiavellian tactics, with the weight of the Establishment behind them, before the Indy referendum did it for me. The same tactics rolled out over the last few weeks of course.

I was surprised to see how well the SNP did up here - even where I live where there is a lot of 'old money' and banners for the local Tory fuckwit.

Fleeting guilt this morning regarding the SNP vote - but even if that was switched to Labour it would still have done little to dent a Conservative victory.

I just cannot believe so-called civilised people can be so cruel to each other. The majority vote for those absolute bastards in power (excuse my language) is impossible to reconcile in my head with any kind of decent fucking human being.

I appreciate that other choices were either poor or marginalised - but the idea that people were somehow happy with the social fabric of society being ripped apart by this disgusting millionaire cabal in cahoots with fucking Murdoch and big business drives me crackers.

Murdoch... how can any Australian non-UK tax payer motherfucker have such powerful control over this country and it's populace? At least he'll be dead soon.

More later probably. But yeah, shameful, appalling V For Vendetta shit goin' on.
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FUCK CAMERON & OSBORNE

Post by BzaInSpace » Fri May 08, 2015 1:54 pm

jack white wrote: I hate mornings like today's. Unfortunately there's been too goddamn many of them.
Sadness. Deflation. Hope lost. Again.
The world is so shit sometimes. Too many horrible, stupid, greedy goddamn people.

5 years & no accountability, no one to at least drag or hold them back even so slightly.
Despondant. How people can so readily do this to other people? So sad..
This^
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Fri May 08, 2015 2:15 pm

I wonder if Labour had actually jumped on board with SNP during the campaign and agreed with some actual decent policies - no to Trident, and a change in the austerity approach whether that might have energised more positive votes for labour. My vote went green and don't think I have ever voted labour, but if they actually had policies that REALLY sounded like a labour party then I might have.

Of course that risks losing the 'moderate' labour supporters, but is seems lots of them went off to UKIP or even the f'ing tories. Anyways. He should have played up to the hate figure the press were painting him as and said yes I am a fucking socialist, deal with it.

By the way, Russell Brand gets a kicking for the whole don't vote thing, but I respect the conversations he is trying to have. What is in it for him? Where else are they covered on our Rubbish rubbish tv these days? The BBC will continue to be the meek mouthpiece of the tory establishment. .

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Re: FUCK CAMERON & OSBORNE

Post by clewsr » Fri May 08, 2015 2:21 pm

BzaInSpace wrote:
mojo filters wrote:No point voting where I live...
Every vote counted in this,
Well, the 1.5 million SNP votes did!

not sure about the 1 million green votes, or the 3 million ukip votes. Less return for the money there.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by mojo filters » Fri May 08, 2015 4:08 pm

I can't believe I was so quick to have dismissed Nate Silver's prediction and those shock exit polls! It doesn't reflect well on all the other polls that consistently indicated uncertainty, notably getting the outcome wrong.

Whilst many pundits are comparing this result with 1992, there are significant differences that makes last night's result more unusual. For around 100 years it's been the case at UK general elections that the governing party doesn't increase its own share of the vote. For the Conservatives to have bucked that trend, leaving Ed Miliband with fewer MPs than Gordon Brown in 2010, is almost unprecedented electorally - I suspect whether rightly or wrongly, Ed Miliband will get the blame here, probably deservedly.

Gordon Brown got 42% when he lost in 2010; Ed Miliband got a shocking 24% of the popular vote last night - worse than Ramsay McDonald in 1921!!!

The Scottish influence has undoubtedly skewed the usual electoral patterns. The question is whether the SNP success is an anomaly? Is it just a hangover from the independence referendum, caused by the false promises made by all Westminster parties, that obviously influenced the referendum result - and now have seriously pissed off our northern brethren?

Or is this a jurassic shift in the tectonic plates of UK psephology?

The catastrophic Lib Dem result pushes them back to roughly the same numbers of MPs they had pre-1980 and the SDP split from Labour - hence one could consider things have reverted back to a previous era's norm.

The huge numbers of UKIP votes will inevitably raise the legitimate question of electoral reform, as whilst I have no desire to see their influence spread - they have a legitimate complaint. However the Lib Dems had the same legitimate concern about their unfair representation for over 30 years, yet still nothing changed.

The referendum regarding Proportional Representation a few years ago was pretty decisive ... mostly in confirming that neither the electorate or commentariat have any interest in reforming our First Past the Post system for Westminster elections, regardless of how fair it is in accurately representing the wishes of the voters!

What really stood out for me was how well UKIP did in strong Labour areas, taking many more votes from Labour than I expected. Up here in the Labour heartlands, where we regard the general election as an insalubrious and inevitable coronation - UKIP surprised many by knocking the Tories into third place in many constituencies. Unlike conventionally strong UKIP areas, we barely have any representation on local councils, and only one MEP.

So then in summary: have we seen a paradigm shift that will characterize our political landscape for the foreseeable future, the SNP success, the expansion of UKIP support outside of the odd few places they'd become established, and the quashing of the ability of the Liberal Democrats to be a serious influence on national politics?

Or will the SNP's huge gains fall away, as Scottish voters become further disillusioned with their majority regime in Edinburgh? Will the Conservative's promised in/out EU referendum in 2017 negate large scale support for a single issue party such as UKIP? Will the effect of those two possibilities allow the Lib Dems to build up their Westminster representation at a fairly rapid rate?

These are the key questions to my mind, whilst the landscape raises more instead of providing answers.

One thing I'm certain of is the Conservative victory will allow their irritating fuckwitted backbenchers to become the tail wagging the dog over every issue for the next 5 years of the new Parliament.

I've no confidence the EU referendum will be a fair fight - UKIP have provided too many people with flawed yet plausible reasoning, sufficient to royally screw up our economy with an ill-informed vote to leave the European Union. It's justifiably cynical to never underestimate people's stupidity - that's why such a referendum is so misjudged.

I wasn't sorry to see Ed Miliband resign today. I hope his grievous errors will teach the Labour party a much-needed lesson. However as the lesser of two evils, I hoped he'd become Prime Minister today.

One aspect of the campaign that shocked me, was the total and utter disrespect shown by the Tories to the entire Scottish electorate. The scaremongering about the potential influence of the SNP on Westminster in general and Labour in particular, was shameful.

The same hypocrites who urged Scots not to vote "Yes" last year just to spite the Tories, became the spiteful - showing absolutely no respect for the opinions of Scottish voters. Unfortunately it appears to have been a scare tactic that worked both to achieve a Conservative victory, as well as further alienating our brethren over the border - which may have unforeseen long term repercussions; this is the most frightening result of this unfortunate general election, which I suspect will hurt the whole country in the long term!
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by mojo filters » Fri May 08, 2015 4:19 pm

clewsr wrote:By the way, Russell Brand gets a kicking for the whole don't vote thing, but I respect the conversations he is trying to have. What is in it for him? Where else are they covered on our Rubbish rubbish tv these days? The BBC will continue to be the meek mouthpiece of the tory establishment. .
I've asked myself that. I suspect Katherine Ryan was on the right track - he's left behind a perfectly acceptable hard drug habit. Now he fills his time asking questions to anyone he can persuade into his kitchen, to advertise his ostentatious sink, with a Freudian sized hosepipe, which he uses to refill an absurdly oversized water bottle.
No one ever says "Robert Mueller - that guy just shoots from the hip!"
No one ever says "Robert Mueller - what an erratic fellow!"
That is a contained man! He's the human equivalent of those Japanese watermelons.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by simonkeeping » Fri May 08, 2015 4:53 pm

The whole UKIP thing is just scary. Living in London you don't see the presence they have but alot of mates who have been down to the south coast for holidays have said they are all over it down there. The fear they seem to instill in people even though the facts about immigration speak for themselves - They contribute more than they take out. Still what are facts in an election campaign?

If you want to tackle immigration kick out the high net worth individuals who contribute nothing to society but are given special status to avoid tax and basically funnel money out the country. The fact that UKIP have the audacity to blame hard working european people immmigrants for the state this country is in is just outrageous. The victimisation of the poor is also on Murdocks and Viscount Rothemere's (who's great-great grandad was mates with hitler) shoulders, apparently anyone on benefits now is a cheat, lazy and probably has 12 kids. A view no doubt sadly now shared by many as the constant drip of hatred eventually seeps into public conciousness.

And then Michael Gove's comments about people who use food banks - Frightening - They really have no understanding of how hard life can get for some.

Heres hoping the SNP smash the tories when they try and push through more vile policies.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by spacemanrich » Fri May 08, 2015 6:07 pm

The immigration thing is not only a U.K., but a world dilemma. The U.S. has it's share of problems with it with Latin American countries flooding the states from Mexico all the way down to Nicaragua. Just read in Deutsche-Welle that Germany received 400,000 applications for asylum seekers. No, it is not a typo : 400,000 would be applicants streaming from Africa/Middle East to Italia, Greece, Malta, etc. Difficult problem to say the least.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by mojo filters » Fri May 08, 2015 9:46 pm

simonkeeping wrote:The whole UKIP thing is just scary. Living in London you don't see the presence they have but alot of mates who have been down to the south coast for holidays have said they are all over it down there. The fear they seem to instill in people even though the facts about immigration speak for themselves - They contribute more than they take out. Still what are facts in an election campaign?

If you want to tackle immigration kick out the high net worth individuals who contribute nothing to society but are given special status to avoid tax and basically funnel money out the country. The fact that UKIP have the audacity to blame hard working european people immmigrants for the state this country is in is just outrageous. The victimisation of the poor is also on Murdocks and Viscount Rothemere's (who's great-great grandad was mates with hitler) shoulders, apparently anyone on benefits now is a cheat, lazy and probably has 12 kids. A view no doubt sadly now shared by many as the constant drip of hatred eventually seeps into public conciousness.

And then Michael Gove's comments about people who use food banks - Frightening - They really have no understanding of how hard life can get for some.

Heres hoping the SNP smash the tories when they try and push through more vile policies.
I agree with what's stated above wholeheartedly ... with one exception: much as I'd love to see the SNP derail as much of David Cameron's bills as possible, in the Commons over the course of this coming Parliament - I fear with his albeit slender majority, the one thing the rabid Euro-sceptic Tory backbenchers will manage to agree on is any issue where the combined forces of the various opposition parties, utilizing the hefty SNP contingent, threaten to challenge - at the end of the day the numbers are undeniable :(

I think the best case scenario is that common sense prevails over the pseudo-racism that threatens to misguidedly let us leave the EU in the 2017 referendum. That issue aside, I think we have to face up to getting royally screwed on almost everything anyone holds dear for the next five years ... by which time we'll probably have that blonde-haired fuckwit muppet for Prime Minister. Fucking hell - time to see if I can drink myself into the next decade, though knowing my luck my script will get cancelled by some edict from a reactionary health minister...
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by BzaInSpace » Sat May 09, 2015 12:14 am

spacemanrich wrote:The immigration thing is not only a U.K., but a world dilemma. The U.S. has it's share of problems with it with Latin American countries flooding the states from Mexico all the way down to Nicaragua. Just read in Deutsche-Welle that Germany received 400,000 applications for asylum seekers. No, it is not a typo : 400,000 would be applicants streaming from Africa/Middle East to Italia, Greece, Malta, etc. Difficult problem to say the least.

Because it's all about the immigrants, and it's all their fault.

Kindly fuck off back to the soccer pages, where your racism is soundly ignored.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by spacemanrich » Sat May 09, 2015 2:37 am

I don't know if your misinterpreting the post or not, obviously you are ? Like the recent election, politicians (same here in the states) mention immigration as a political agenda - no doubt a very hot topic. I don't know if you read the post completely or just ranting some other bullshit of yours. I'm typing on a tablet otherwise I would include today's news with a link - you probably heard by now ? Spanish authorities found an 8 year old Moroccan boy in a suitcase via x-ray scan. A boy in a suitcase that was in a fetal position. I didn't even mention the 800 victims that died a few weeks ago in a sinking ferry. Seems to me, like the last time I had with you about the Scottish referendum you blew off the handle. Glad I didnt touch upon yesterdays election. Something seriously wrong with you.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sat May 09, 2015 8:57 am

In a nut shell that has been labours problem with immigration. someone raises a point about the consequences of immigration. labour, in this case perfectly played by bza says 'oh dear that sounds a bit racist. immigration is always a positive and mustn't be questioned. besides immigrants will mostly vote for labour'. voter - fuck you then I'll vote ukip.

There clearly are practical issues with the consequences of large scale immigration but if the left just cry 'racist' when the matter is brought up that doesn't really help move things forward or to help win the argument.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by simonkeeping » Sat May 09, 2015 10:00 am

like I said earlier immigration brings in more money than it takes out. Immigrants play a huge role keeping the UK running. The the NHS relies heavily on immigrants. I think what's dangerous is when you have blanket terms like 'immigrants' as it dehumanises people into numbers. All the people want is stability and a chance to provide for there families.

The thing with immigration is that we have a tendency to massively destabilise regions of the world then leave it in a huge mess. Lebanon. Afghanistan, Syria, then when people, human beings, and this is the key to the whole issue, want to get out as they fear for the safety of there families and they don't want to live in turmoil the EU turns around and says - no you're not welcome. The huge camps at Calais etc go to show how desperate these people are. I read an interview with one guy who had fled Afghanistan, he had been an interpreter for the UK army and when they left he was obviously in serious danger from the Taliban so he had no choice but to get out any way he could. How bad is that? Thanks for your help mate, see you later. This group of guys organised a cricket match against the people over in Calais (and to take them aid supplies) and they used Daily Mail cheap ferry tickets to get there. Subversive- love it!

They have nothing. You have people drowning in the Mediterranean Sea and then UKIP say let's cut foreign aid which will make the situation worse. The basic answer to the issue is to help people in these places the UK government chose to mess up. Direct humanitarian aid and a diplomatic answer to stop horrors currently being indured over in these regions. If we got invaded tomorrow by France we'd be getting out anyway we could it's no different for these people. Look at the pictures of the camp in Calais - it's heartbreaking. These are humans!!

As for the 'flood' of Eastern European immigrants - remember the press waiting at Luton airport on January the first? One man arrived. We live in an island - were all immigrants
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sat May 09, 2015 11:13 am

I don't disagree with you Simon. My post was intending to point out that a significant proportion of Labour's core constituent see immigration as a problem and labour have not consistently made the case for it in a way that you have you done. They just don't like talking about it. Consequently they have lost a fundamental chunk of their core support.

Now we can blame the press for scaring people into thinking there is an issue, or we can think UKIP voters are just a bit racist. These will be factors. Alternatively - possibly some of these voters are impacted by immigration by ways in which politicians are not and don't perceive. I don't know. But if labour are going to become get back into government they are going have have to find some way of winning back the votes lost to UKIP. Otherwise the Daily Mail has won England for the tories for good.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sat May 09, 2015 12:05 pm

speaking of the Mail. Have you seen its front page today? ugh. Crowing about their ability to peddle misinformation to their readers. I feel bit sick.

I hadn't realised, but the first expected outcome in the polls was probably the best for my political persuasions, I'm not a massive fan of the labour party and I'll never forgive them for the iraq war and they have a strong authoritarian instinct, but I will concede the are better than the tories. So if it had turned out a rainbow anti tory coalition it might have made the best government you could get under this system - Labour / SNP / liberal and hopefully a smattering of greens could have been a very progressive left wing government. Gasp. Real change perhaps. No trident. An end to the dismantling of the NHS, Some actual care in the system....

No wonder the press went haywire over it Same as the Scottish Referendum.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sat May 09, 2015 10:53 pm

How Ukip helped David Cameron win in the Midlands

http://gu.com/p/4897m

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by olan » Sun May 10, 2015 6:33 am

I've been an immigrant in the USA, Australia and now the UK, but being white I'm never treated as 'an immigrant'. The vilification of asylum seekers is particularly unpleasant. Google for Manus Island if you want to see how not to treat the desperate.

I suspect the whole immigration debate is misinformed, but is used as a smoke screen to avoid addressing the real issues at hand; health, education, social justice, climate change etc. My country of birth is failing on two of the first three measures to the extent that I been forced to hand over enormous amounts of money to keep my mother alive and to litigate to force the health insurers to meet their contractual obligations. We live in a time where the gap between the richest and the poorest is growing at an unprecedented rate and nobody appears bothered. I'm concerned that large swathes of the UK's population are essentially disenfranchised. While I'm appalled at the blithering lunacy spouted by UKIP, the fact that almost an eight of voters supported their policies and will now receive no representation. First past the post is a good thing though....... :?

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FUCK THE TORY VOTERS

Post by BzaInSpace » Sun May 10, 2015 11:29 am

spacemanrich wrote:Seems to me, like the last time I had with you about the Scottish referendum you blew off the handle. Glad I didnt touch upon yesterdays election. Something seriously wrong with you.
I'm glad we were spared your in-depth analysis of the election, with the same kind of dubious sources you used last time... Labour stooge JK Rowling, the mess of vipers that is The Economist, and no doubt Ronald McDonald.

Allow me to clarify my post. Yes, probably short off the mark and lacked some context: I wasn't quite saying your mention of "the immigrant problem" was racist per se - although knowing you, it probably was. I was referring to your choice epithets over the years in the football threads, which I have received complaints about, where you step way over the line of banter into genuinely offensive matters.

I could list numerous examples but you must know what I mean.
clewsr wrote:In a nut shell that has been labours problem with immigration. someone raises a point about the consequences of immigration. labour, in this case perfectly played by bza says 'oh dear that sounds a bit racist. immigration is always a positive and mustn't be questioned. besides immigrants will mostly vote for labour'. voter - fuck you then I'll vote ukip.

There clearly are practical issues with the consequences of large scale immigration but if the left just cry 'racist' when the matter is brought up that doesn't really help move things forward or to help win the argument.
I'm more than happy to have an open and honest debate about the practical matters of large scale immigration - but Simon said it more beautifully above than I ever could. I'm no Labour apologist - fuck them, and their absurdly PC-orientated policies.

But I do think immigration is not a problem in the grand scheme of things. It's a red herring - and a very old one at that. We should be more concerned about the banking cartels and Murdoch and massive corporate tax evasion and £100bn on obscene WMD "borrowed" from the US and .... man. What's the use.

We're fucked. People voted for greed over their humanity. Sad days.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by BzaInSpace » Sun May 10, 2015 11:38 am

simonkeeping wrote:like I said earlier immigration brings in more money than it takes out. Immigrants play a huge role keeping the UK running. The the NHS relies heavily on immigrants. I think what's dangerous is when you have blanket terms like 'immigrants' as it dehumanises people into numbers. All the people want is stability and a chance to provide for there families.

The thing with immigration is that we have a tendency to massively destabilise regions of the world then leave it in a huge mess. Lebanon. Afghanistan, Syria, then when people, human beings, and this is the key to the whole issue, want to get out as they fear for the safety of there families and they don't want to live in turmoil the EU turns around and says - no you're not welcome...
So well said. I can tell you right now without "the immigrants" the NHS would literally cease to exist.

These people generally want a better world. Don't believe the bullshit, divide & conquer tactics spouted by The Mail and The Telegraph and those awful 'documentaries' fear-mongering and demonizing these people.

Most people just actually want a good life. And who wouldn't? Ask yourself what you would be willing to do for your family if you were being bombed out of where you lived by forces from far away, fighting for dubious purposes, but it doesn't matter to you: you've just witnessed your neighbours being reduced to bloody stains on the bombed out remnants of their house...

How far would you go?

It's a short step from "immigrants" to "subhumans" and what happens after that IMO.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sun May 10, 2015 3:31 pm

I hope this thread isn't making me look like a closet ukiper.

I agree with you bza. Immigration isn't the issue or at least it isn't for me. It is a smokescreen. The problem is millions people who voted ukip many of whom previously voted labour clearly do think it is an issue. Bloody England. Can't even get a protest vote right.

I'm ready to go with the theory that ukip are a right wing conspiracy designed to split the labour vote. It has worked astonishingly well if so. With the press feeding England a diet of hate filled propaganda and millions of people apparently happy to lap it up and vote accordingly... you are right bza. We are fucked.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by sunray » Sun May 10, 2015 4:14 pm

You think you're fucked now...
I urge everyone to have a look at TTIP, a proposed trade agreement between the EU and USA. Scary stuff :shock: :evil:
I'm losing my edge, but I was there...

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sun May 10, 2015 4:37 pm

I know enough about ttip for it to scare the shit out of me.

but most people just could not give a flying fuck about these things could they? at least comparing it to the overall reaction to the snowden files.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by The Dr » Sun May 10, 2015 6:04 pm

imigration- great- benefit culture- bad. come to work, grow- great, come to claim (and be alowed to) bad

meh
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by plastic37 » Mon May 11, 2015 12:35 am

olan wrote:I've been an immigrant in the USA, Australia and now the UK, but being white I'm never treated as 'an immigrant'. The vilification of asylum seekers is particularly unpleasant. Google for Manus Island if you want to see how not to treat the desperate.

I suspect the whole immigration debate is misinformed, but is used as a smoke screen to avoid addressing the real issues at hand; health, education, social justice, climate change etc.
Great opening point. Brilliant contribution/observation. I'm glad i'm on a message board where someone makes a point like that. That's so refreshing.

For me immigration is the smoke screen covering cronyism, tax evasion and all those issues around feeding a capitalist model. The non white immigrant is not the traditional labour voters enemy but it is so easy for, what are in one thesis now called the Left Behind (the older, less well educated labour voter) to find evidence that the (non white) immigrant is a threat. Immigrants do not hold a great deal of power in the host society.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by plastic37 » Mon May 11, 2015 12:42 am

clewsr wrote:By the way, Russell Brand gets a kicking for the whole don't vote thing, but I respect the conversations he is trying to have. What is in it for him? Where else are they covered on our Rubbish rubbish tv these days? The BBC will continue to be the meek mouthpiece of the tory establishment. .
Brand's media/news deconstructions are first class. The way he can dissect the news to illuminate the narratives is superb. For that he has my respect. Turn out was the highest since 1997 which makes me believe that Brand is energising and engaging young people in such a way that they are questioning some of what he says re not voting.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by johnnyboy » Mon May 11, 2015 2:54 pm

plastic37 wrote:
clewsr wrote:By the way, Russell Brand gets a kicking for the whole don't vote thing, but I respect the conversations he is trying to have. What is in it for him? Where else are they covered on our Rubbish rubbish tv these days? The BBC will continue to be the meek mouthpiece of the tory establishment. .
Brand's media/news deconstructions are first class. The way he can dissect the news to illuminate the narratives is superb. For that he has my respect. Turn out was the highest since 1997 which makes me believe that Brand is energising and engaging young people in such a way that they are questioning some of what he says re not voting.
He's quit politics now though hasn't he. One failure and it's all too much for him. Pretty laughable really, which is a shame because many people are taken in by his words and zest for justice, he could've carried on the fight more than ever now but no, he's dropped it all because it didn't turn out the way he'd hoped.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by plastic37 » Mon May 11, 2015 6:09 pm

johnnyboy wrote:
He's quit politics now though hasn't he. One failure and it's all too much for him. Pretty laughable really, which is a shame because many people are taken in by his words and zest for justice, he could've carried on the fight more than ever now but no, he's dropped it all because it didn't turn out the way he'd hoped.
Has he?
I find that a strange thing to say Johnny Boy.
Pretty laughable really.
I am one of these people who think that it is impossible to quit politics. If you see what i mean?
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by semisynthetic » Wed May 13, 2015 5:23 am

plastic37 wrote:
johnnyboy wrote:
He's quit politics now though hasn't he. One failure and it's all too much for him. Pretty laughable really, which is a shame because many people are taken in by his words and zest for justice, he could've carried on the fight more than ever now but no, he's dropped it all because it didn't turn out the way he'd hoped.
Has he?
I find that a strange thing to say Johnny Boy.
Pretty laughable really.
I am one of these people who think that it is impossible to quit politics. If you see what i mean?
I think unless a REAL politician is too ill to romp about, their nose will itch, and their head, ache, and they will need of a Fix of telling others how they should live; it must be worse than Heroin. Look at the "junkies" trying desperately to get, keep and hold power over someone else while feathering their own nests. Gotta go with plastic on this one.
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET (I CAN'T GO VOTE)

Post by semisynthetic » Wed May 13, 2015 6:04 am

Apparently immigration IS an important point; but surely not the only one that caused so many to bolt from the major parties, and some to form UKIP. I get the idea that a great many people of every color are tired of being taken for granted within some part of BOTH the Labour and the Conservative Parties; it is obvious in the USA. People who, regardless of color, are considered "guaranteed" by one Party or the other for different reasons;
One major candidate here in the U.S. doesn't even SPEAK to the press or anyone not in the Bubble. Very Embarrassing. So I can understand that much more than any single point has caused a great discontent within those who had formerly always tended to vote a certain way, but did not this time for a myriad of reasons OTHER than simply race.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Sat May 16, 2015 10:12 pm

John Cruddas: this could be the greatest crisis the Labour party has ever faced

http://gu.com/p/49x8f

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by clewsr » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:31 am

It would be nice to think Corbyn could win. I certainly hope he does. Imagine that, a socialist in charge of the labour party!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... rn-message

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by jack white » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:14 pm

Bump. Remain leave or spoil your ballot, just please vote!
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by The Dr » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:55 pm

jack white wrote:spoil your ballot, just please vote!
in the general someone drew a penis in the box of the tory mp and as it was inside the box it was counted as a vote for him, so if you are going to spoil your vote DO IT PROPERLY! :lol: :lol:
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by The Dr » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:16 am

i got to the polls just after they opened and already there was a queue!

it is the first time i've ever had to queue to vote!
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by jack white » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:40 am

Much busier at my polling station than for the recent election. No queues mind. & also might've been a time thing, today I think I caught the school run whereas usually I'm voting in the evenings..
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by MODLAB » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:30 pm

Was the only person this morning.


IN


We will see.


Sadly, I feel the UK has become so separated that its not that funny anymore.


M
Design.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by jack white » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:14 am

:(

I dunno about the rest of you, but myself & my family (my brother & sister), colleagues, a few friends & people I know ourjobs & futures have now become a lot less secure. We rely quite a lot on eu funding. The outlook is at best unpredictable. At worse all too predictable.

there are many legitimate reasons for leaving the Eu, I just fear a lot of people voted for the wrong reasons. Selfish, twisted reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, but the campaigns certainly made me feel that.. I dunno.. I'm a world away from little England, it's never been me or my culture, something alien I've never been able to get my head around. & now it's inflicted an even deeper uncertainty on my future.. I love Europe & identify & define myself as a European before any other classification & now there's a senseless border, both physically & metaphorically, stopping me from accessing that to its full extent.


Edit
Tho I should spread the blame. The remain campaign were terrible. Rather than counter the leave lies with facts they projected gloom & weaponised fear. Instead of focusing on the positive benefits of eu membership & connecting with the voters. They left it too late to try & reunite a society that had already been divided, the horse had already bolted so to speak by the time the retainers started getting their act together. & even then their act wasn't up to much, Corbyn couldn't even share a platform with Cameron..

Such pettiness & selfishness on the part of a few has led us here. Amazing but somehow typical..
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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by runcible » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:57 am

jack white wrote:
there are many legitimate reasons for leaving the Eu, I just fear a lot of people voted for the wrong reasons. Selfish, twisted reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, but the campaigns certainly made me feel that..
Spot on. The leave campaign focused more on scare tactics although both sides were guilty of that. The nastiest campaign I can ever remember. Nothing really constructive, just endless warnings of doom if we voted the wrong way.

Did anyone notice during the last big debate - at Wembley Arena - that the leave side were using some weird Derren Brown-type psychological suggestion technique where everything they said had to include the words 'take back control'? It was really strange and after 40 minutes I had to turn it off as it started to be really quite sinister.

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Re: UK- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE

Post by jack white » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:06 am

Yea "take our country back" & hand it over to a couple of cretinous people who are driven solely by their self interest. Boris Johnson must be pretty happy with himself today, him & Gove.
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