People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

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clewsr
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:13 am

how many to save corbyn and how many to dump him? polls I saw showing him just ahead..

whatever. we are all going to have to start giving more of a shit either way. the stakes seem so much higher now and the options increasingly limited

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by runcible » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:17 am

clewsr wrote:whatever. we are all going to have to start giving more of a shit either way. the stakes seem so much higher now and the options increasingly limited
That is the most positive thing to have come out of all this. That people are actually sitting up and paying attention to what is going on.

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:24 am

jack white wrote:

... Or not. Record numbers joining Labour atm. :?: :shock:

my uncle lives in austrailia but he joined labour to originally vote for corbyn...
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:00 pm

I have just joined. For how long who knows. Most likely to support Corbyn. I was a £3er last time. If they had handled it better I might have been persuaded it was time for him to go, but I just can't see where this credible challenge is going to come from. And I can only gasp at the unforgivable treachery and bullying that has been going on this week.

Did you hear the domain anglea4leader.com was registered on Saturday before this shit started? Makes a mockery of her tearful interviews on Monday.

Really and seriously the most sensible option for the rebels would be to join the lib dems on mass. That would give us a credible 2nd party opposition on a pro europe ticket. Corybn and Momentum would keep some of the membership and sign up new candidates to fight against the incumbent lib dem mps. A happy outcome for all concerned?

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:56 pm

clewsr wrote:I have just joined. For how long who knows. Most likely to support Corbyn. I was a £3er last time. If they had handled it better I might have been persuaded it was time for him to go, but I just can't see where this credible challenge is going to come from. And I can only gasp at the unforgivable treachery and bullying that has been going on this week.

Did you hear the domain anglea4leader.com was registered on Saturday before this shit started? Makes a mockery of her tearful interviews on Monday.

Really and seriously the most sensible option for the rebels would be to join the lib dems on mass. That would give us a credible 2nd party opposition on a pro europe ticket. Corybn and Momentum would keep some of the membership and sign up new candidates to fight against the incumbent lib dem mps. A happy outcome for all concerned?
the thing i dislike most about corbyn is that i never hear him making policy speeches. i agree with those who said that if he had come out and explained the problems with leaving the EU then i reckon more people would have voted to remain and as he has the 'cool' factor for 'kids' (those under 25) maybe more would have voted. the only policy of his that i can think of is to have nuclear subs without warheads, defeating the whole purpose of the deterant. alternatives? surely there has to be one- i find myself longing for the halcyon days of milibland, at least he had policies- maybe it is time for his brother to step in? return to the 'new' labour for they were at least bordering on opposition. do you think brown or blair, whatever you think of them, would not tear the current libs/labour/cons to pieces?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by spzretent » Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:04 pm

The Dr wrote:
the thing i dislike most about corbyn is that i never hear him making policy speeches. i agree with those who said that if he had come out and explained the problems with leaving the EU then i reckon more people would have voted to remain and as he has the 'cool' factor for 'kids' (those under 25) maybe more would have voted. the only policy of his that i can think of is to have nuclear subs without warheads, defeating the whole purpose of the deterant. alternatives? surely there has to be one- i find myself longing for the halcyon days of milibland, at least he had policies- maybe it is time for his brother to step in? return to the 'new' labour for they were at least bordering on opposition. do you think brown or blair, whatever you think of them, would not tear the current libs/labour/cons to pieces?
Sounds an awful lot like the guy who lost out to Hillary.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:39 pm

Corbyn is incredibly similar to Sanders. They share one huge problem - a uniformly hostile mainstream media. Think of the countless hours the US / UK media has talked about Trump and Ukip over here. They get huge coverage. Sanders / Corbyn are deliberately kept out of the picture and criticised whenever they are mentioned.

Corbyn also has the problem re policy of having to drag hundreds of unwilling MP's with him, - so he's been unable to announce clear alternatives because of internal resistance.

Maybe he won't have that problem much longer. Apparently something on twitter suggests they maybe about to put my LibDem plan into action. Its good they are listening to the red hot political debate on the spz board.

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by jack white » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:45 pm

Corbyn & McDonnell seem a little too keen on Brexit (& triggering article 50) for it to sit right with me.

That however seems to be the general consensus. People seem afraid of further agitating the angry protest vote & the inherent risk that brings. I'm not so convinced. I would still like to see the decision annulled somehow, someway.
The solutions & offers post-EU, post-Brexit, are unpalatable to me in the short to medium term.

I do see the risks in overriding the 52/3% who votes to leave last Thursday. It could just given further rise to the right and see them sweep into government. But to be honest, I'm tired of the politics of fear determining our progress.

It's just that the schisms in left & now the people who were the remainers are so deep we're at a loss to launch any kind of coherent challenge. Like i say, to me, the immediate outlook is just so bleak I don't see a way back. It's a new world. "I got news eyes, everything seems far away."
Last edited by jack white on Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by jack white » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:50 pm

semisynthetic wrote: My admittedly (seemingly) overarching comment, was to point out how the government had grown FAR BEYOND what is outlined in Laws of the USA in the Constitution and the Original Intent. Anyone who knows me would never assume I would let hungry people starve because of any Ideology. There is always a way, within the original Laws and Intent to take care of people. My point was HOW this was very much out of control, and again, part of the "elitists" agenda who benefit from such overreaching and the problems it brings, because to override the US Constitution is the worst sort of "blatant abuse of power" against the USA.

I don't believe it is out of control. I believe it's well within our control. It might be a different circumstance in the USA & state by state given it is such a vast territory. But here tackling benefit fraud/scroungers/nappers is well within our grasp, as is fighting the injustice of those who benefit. The real problem is the nastiness with which certain elected governments tarred everyone with the same brush. It was terrible sad to see, and yet it's still going on just with different people to blame.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:01 pm

jack white wrote:Corbyn & McDonnell seem a little to keen on Brexit (& triggering article 50) for it to sit right with me.

That however seems to be the general consensus. People seem afraid of further agitating the angry protest vote & the inherent risk that brings. I'm not so convinced. I would still like to see the decision annulled somehow, someway.
The solutions & offers post-EU, post-Brexit, are unpalatable to me in the short to medium term.

I do see the risks in overriding the 52/3% who votes to leave last Thursday. It could just given further rise to the right and see them sweep into government. But to be honest, I'm tired of the politics of fear determining our progress.

It's just that the schisms in left & now the people who were the remainers are so deep we're at a loss to launch any kind of coherent challenge. Like i say, to me, the immediate outlook is just so bleak I don't see a way back. It's a new world. "I got news eyes, everything seems far away."
I agree with you Jack. And I imagine the EU is half the reason for the labour MP's antics this week. If wanting to remain in the EU had been marketed as the main reason for the rebellion they would not look like such massive shits. But they are too scared to say it outright. Hence a move to the lid dems is entirely logical

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by jack white » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Felt the need to share Marina Hyde again,
In the notorious words of Michael Gove: “People in this country have had enough of experts”. But have they had enough of expert shits?
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:06 am

"jack white"]
semisynthetic wrote: My admittedly (seemingly) overarching comment, was to point out how the government had grown FAR BEYOND what is outlined in Laws of the USA in the Constitution and the Original Intent. Anyone who knows me would never assume I would let hungry people starve because of any Ideology. There is always a way, within the original Laws and Intent to take care of people. My point was HOW this was very much out of control, and again, part of the "elitists" agenda who benefit from such overreaching and the problems it brings, because to override the US Constitution is the worst sort of "blatant abuse of power" against the USA.

____________________________________________
I don't believe it is out of control. I believe it's well within our control. It might be a different circumstance in the USA & state by state given it is such a vast territory. But here tackling benefit fraud/scroungers/nappers is well within our grasp, as is fighting the injustice of those who benefit. The real problem is the nastiness with which certain elected governments tarred everyone with the same brush. It was terrible sad to see, and yet it's still going on just with different people to blame.[/quote](Jack)
________________________________________________

Jack,
I was referring to the USA only; I try to make comments about the USA - when I DO refer to the UK or another country or entity, I do try to make THAT clear, sometimes being repetitious about the fact. I agree that a small country should be able to control and keep track of "taking a share" they may not be due. But in the USA, this "free" Idea is pushed by the current administration with TV and radio Ads, even automatically sending an assortment of items directly to those already on some government program. I was in the little country Post Office nearest me to pick up recordings, and a bunch of little old ladies arriving in 2 cars "returned" the so-called "Obama Phone" they received because they "did not order it and did not want it - it was more waste". They were very sweet ladies, but angry at giveaways that cost SOMEONE something. What happens on such a scale in the UK is something I would have no idea about, so I share similar information with what I AM familiar with. They DID remind me a little of the Monty Python episode of angry little old ladies.......that is as close to the UK as I went in my thoughts.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:08 pm

clewsr wrote:
Corbyn also has the problem re policy of having to drag hundreds of unwilling MP's with him, - so he's been unable to announce clear alternatives because of internal resistance.
.

...leader...

(i just remembered a joke from somewhere- what do you call a leader without any followers? someone taking a walk)


re: sanders- a bbc radio 4 comedy show called him 'corbyn with brains', who has, incidently, through 'grassroot actions' outspent both trump and clinton...
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:11 pm

semisynthetic wrote:" They DID remind me a little of the Monty Python episode of angry little old ladies.......that is as close to the UK as I went in my thoughts.

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:23 pm

They were Brilliant. When Monty Python's Flying Circus came on around midnight, the world I knew Stopped.

I can remember a drunken brawl by "Bear", an Indian of the Osage Tribe who was enormous; he had thrown a little guy into a plaster wall and he was STUCK IN IT! So the Bear ripped a piece of wall out in front of this guys face that allowed him to see the screen, and Bear went unconscious. Every Psychedelic Dungeon, Partyrama, or "possible knife-fight" was put on hold so as to not miss the opening credits. Seems like just the other day.....Is the show still on in re-runs in the UK? Or have those Teletubbies taken over? If so, I will have to agree Britain may be in some mild decline after all.
I bought the Box Sets of The Flying Circus, it isn't on TV in the USA regularly anymore, except perhaps the Films from time to time, or one of their Specials. A "Norwegian Blue" parrot? Brilliant. And, "No One Expects the Spanish Inquisition"; they were wonderful; from "Funny Walks" to "Twits" and "Naughty Bits".
Last edited by semisynthetic on Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by olan » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:32 pm

[Post deleted]

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:06 am

I have seen the term "£3er", which I take to mean "three pounder". Is this a donation or membership range, or something else I cannot imagine?

I am curious, and would like to understand the meaning of it.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:44 pm

semisynthetic wrote:I have seen the term "£3er", which I take to mean "three pounder". Is this a donation or membership range, or something else I cannot imagine?

I am curious, and would like to understand the meaning of it.
Hi Semi,

In an attempt to open up Labour's leadership elections (and reduce the block voting power of the unions) the rules were changed a few years ago to allow 'supporters' of the Labour party to sign up for £3 and have a vote in the Leadership elections, which gave the the same rights and as proper members.

Unfortunately for Labour the MP's managed to allow a MP who actually appeared to have integrity and very different views from the mainstream MP's to get on the ballot paper. (Corbyn).

So during the leadership election last year there was massive groundswell of public support for Corbyn, who packed out meetings all over the country, just like Sanders. And despite heavy criticism from the rest of the MP's and the press (who were all panicking), Corbyn was elected by a landslide, by proper members and £3 supporters alike.

This didn't stop disgruntled MP's shouting about 'infiltration' from 'radicals' voting in the election.

The MP's seem to have finally released their current attempt to oust Corbyrn is doomed to failure as 100,000 people have joined the party in the last week or so, most it seems to support Corbyn.

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:27 pm

Thank you very much clewsr,

Of course I enjoy the Musical & Related info I learn on this SITE, but I do certainly enjoy learning about other topics; even the variations in our language. Did this £3 figure have any special significance; or was it simply a token amount? (I suppose that the idea of "3" comes from uncounted uses from the ancients, Magical, pagan, Alchemical and other varied origins). Maybe it was just an "affordable" amount.

The idea is interesting; but I'd like to know "where did the Money go"?

******How can a Party be certain that anyone with £3 could cast votes that were in fact NOT against the very ideas this (or any) Party desires to put forth? Naturally we would like to think people having differing opinions and philosophies in their politics would "play fair", but we all know this is sadly not the case.
The DESIRE & Absolute NEED that some have for ever more & more Power and Control makes Heroin look like Baby Aspirin. Great, Potent Deadly Poisons need not be substances, do they? Some Ideas are much worse than Cyanide, and easier to spread about.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:55 pm

More than 3,000 hate crimes and incidents were reported to police from 16-30 June this year, a 42% increase on the same period in 2015, National Police Chiefs' Council figures show.

It comes amid reports of what David Cameron called "despicable" hate crimes after the EU referendum on 23 June.

At the peak on 25 June, 289 hate crimes and incidents were reported across England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Assistant Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said the "sharp rise" was unacceptable.

Incidents of hate crime in late June included the distribution of cards bearing the words "no more Polish vermin", and numerous reports of non-white people being told to leave the country.

UK police forces were asked to disclose weekly hate crime numbers after an increase in reports to True Vision, a police-funded website.

In total, there were 3,076 reported hate crimes and incidents in the second half of June, compared to 2,161 in the same period in 2015.

The National Police Chiefs' Council said the main type of offence reported over the fortnight was "violence against the person", which includes harassment and common assault, as well as verbal abuse, spitting and "barging".
'Go back'

Last month, following the UK vote to leave the EU, Mr Cameron condemned incidents including "verbal abuse hurled" at ethnic minorities, and "despicable" graffiti on a Polish community centre.

In Plymouth, a shed next to a Polish family's house was set on fire on Wednesday night.

No one was hurt but the property was damaged, and the family received a note telling them to "go back" to Poland.


Ewa Banaszak, 22, whose father and two younger sisters were in the home at the time of the fire, said: "It has been very intense after the referendum, with people saying 'go back to your own country'.

"We've had verbal comments over the last couple of years but it has intensified."

She said the family had been supported by the public and police.

Meanwhile, counter-terrorism officers are investigating five incidents in which white powder was sent to Muslim centres, mosques and government buildings in London.

One of the recipients was Muslim peer Lord Ahmed, who was sent hate mail along with white powder, causing a security alert at Parliament.

Scotland Yard has said three of the packages, all of which arrived on Thursday, were found to be "not noxious or suspicious".
Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption The powder sent to Lord Ahmed caused a security alert at Parliament on Thursday

True Vision defines hate crimes as offences where a victim is targeted because of criteria including their race, religion, sexual orientation or disability.

ACC Hamilton said the increase in hate crimes "undermines the diversity and tolerance we should instead be celebrating".

"Everyone has the right to feel safe and confident about who they are and should not be made to feel vulnerable or at risk," he said.
...


anyone here noticed anything?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:24 pm

a couple of things I couldn't be quite sure about. but yes some kids shouting something out of a car and elsewhere what looked like spot of bother by our local newsagents. it's a worry.

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:51 pm

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”.

To unsubscribe from this petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/signatur ... zL9sb21VXO

Dear ...

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”.

Government responded:

The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on 27 June, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected. We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... sponse=yes

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:34 am

This latest terrorist attack in Nice, France is I believe, going to be the last straw for several other EU countries to GET OUT of the EU. France, Germany, and others will likely not wish to so easily give up their sovereignty. I see the UK as being out front on this; no matter how many goodies the EU seems to provide, security is certainly not one of them. I cannot imagine several other current EU member countries to continue their membership; it was a noble idea, even a good idea in terms of economics; but as optimistic as I try to be, I always believed this EU idea would fail; it is a tribute of sorts that it has lasted this long. Just my opinion; perhaps I will be proven totally wrong on this. But, I don't think so.

I do believe the exit by the UK politicians was less than well planned; and I agree with your disgust of how much of this exercise was carried out; but I also believe it will be shown in time to have been a good decision; we should all take more interest in our own country and how they are run and by whom.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by clewsr » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:02 pm

Semi. The man who did this was born in France. Nothing to do with the EU.

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:58 pm

I know this fellow was a legal French Citizen (born in Tunisia, North Africa); but it wouldn't matter if he had been Venutian, it was his actions that were the last straw, not where he was born.

I have heard rumblings of discontent from both EU citizens and Ministers long BEFORE the UK Exit. Surely you hear more complaints within the EU than I do here in the USA, but it is no surprise. There is much that has changed from the early days and goals of the EU; the preoccupation with "open borders" or NO borders was once possible and desirable; but with the advent of such an influx of unkown persons without documentation or the ability to be vetted, many who'd do very bad things makes it reasonable that some EU Countries will want greater control of their borders. I don't like the whole idea of "show me your papers" - it is antithetical to my beliefs, but Terrorism carried out by those who don't care if they die has changed many Western Societies for the worse. I don't like to see Police w/ machine-guns on street corners; one more reason I am disgusted with my government for not doing much more, much sooner to eliminate ISIS and others. But in these coming days when so much is at stake, I believe nationalism will rise, and there will be greater emphasis on the Country as a unit and not the EU.

I believe that this latest attack in Nice will be seen as a pivotal event; I did not suggest that countries will stampede to leave; I believe their exit will be better planned and organized than the UK's exit, but I still believe at least several countries will eventually leave; the EU that exists today will be very different; I would not be surprised if world events will cause the EU to unravel completely. I have no animus against the EU; but I have always been skeptical of how long it would last for a number of reasons.

If I am wrong, so be it, I will be wrong; it is simply my opinion and only time will tell.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by The Dr » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:26 am

isn't it all more to do with 'american imperialism' (economics) than the EU or theology?
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: People of the UK Vote to leave the EU

Post by semisynthetic » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:44 pm

What? The USA is a Capitalist country. To invoke "imperialism" in the way I understand the meaning of the word is a non sequitur.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

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