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spacemanrich
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Brexit

Post by spacemanrich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 pm

So, what does that mean with a vote of no confidence ? By the way, it is the worst defeat by a PM in over 100 years. Is the UK going to stay in the E.U. or is their some other considerations ? Read the article and still didn't bloody understand it. It mentioned that May will fly to Brussels to secure concessions with EU Commission President ( Jean-Claude Juncker ), but that he isn't willing to yield to that idea. :oops:

Martin L
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Re: Brexit

Post by Martin L » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:57 pm

A possible general election, another referendum, a bloody mess, all costing us tax payers £'s. Where is David Cameron he started this fiasco?

spacemanrich
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Re: Brexit

Post by spacemanrich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm

Martin,

Are you for a Brexit or do you want to stay in the E.U. ?

Controlling your country's own policies instead of Brussels.

mojo filters
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Re: Brexit

Post by mojo filters » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:24 am

When I look at how Brexit has played out (post narrow referendum outcome, badly constituted via the dumb simple majority decided by a simple, dumb and narrow majority, where previous important choices going back to Jim Callaghan's late '70s devolution referenda utilised more coherent decision-making techniques for obvious legitimacy reasons) and the responses from key and influential UK political figures - I inevitably find myself having greater respect for other political systems, especially those routed in a basic grounding of checked democratic norms.

I've spent the best part of the last 24 hours watching coverage of US Senate Judiciary Committee hearings into Trump's prospective permanent replacement for the similarly vetted Jeff Sessions, as head of the US Department of Justice.

The diligence, care and attention involved in the latter scenario, seem absurdly cautious in comparison with how the Article II constitutional powers inherent in such a cabinet office offer any notion of a concept of the power that such an office is able to exercise.

The clunky and deliberatly difficult US Government oversight required between separate constitutional Articles, specifically between the Article I legislative branch and the Article II executive branch - represents both an incredible degree of foresight by way of Madisonian systems of checks and balances, whilst exposing the fragilities inherent in UK constitutional norms.

Where were the independent UK committees checking the lies and mistruths of those political figures who dishonestly appropriated convenient yet misleading numbers, in the cause of fallaciously using their bully pulpit to perpetrate unchecked propaganda of notable influence in the 2016 Brexit referendum?

Why have political figures like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove been able to abandon their offices within the governing party charged with the complex and difficult business of enacting a policy they overtly advocated in favour of, without any authoritative institution able to hold these idiotic hypocrites to account?

I have no issue with anyone advocating for Brexit, as long as the arguments made in favour of such are done both in good faith and grounded in reality.

I think a key question was asked above: where is the man who's poor political judgement forced the original unwanted 2016 referendum? Why has David Cameron been able to conveniently exit the UK political stage, without being held to account for his own reckless political decisions?

America finishes the day slightly better informed around how a permanent successor to Jeff Sessions will conduct important business at the Department of Justice, if William Barr is subsequently successfully confirmed.

The UK governing party has suffered an unprecedented overwhelming Parliamentary defeat of Theresa May's controversial yet carefully negotiated Brexit deal. Despite his own inability to show effective opposition to, or leadership in respect of actually successfully negotiating an alternative path - Jeremy Corbyn is now headed towards a successful vote of no confidence in the current UK government.

If confirmed as Attorney General, should William Barr set a foot wrong across a broad range of areas governed by the DOJ - he risks being hauled back to both House and Senate committees that will expect him to account for the most minor of transgressions.

By contrast UK politicians face no equivalent consequences, no matter how reckless or irresponsible their decision-making capabilities are proven to be. There is clearly a distinct difference in comparable political accountability, with little regard for the dramatic potential consequences that could be suffered by UK citizens.
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No one ever says "Robert Mueller - what an erratic fellow!"
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Laz69
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Re: Brexit

Post by Laz69 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:16 am

My tuppence worth...

The whole Brexit process and the decision to leave was based on misleading information at best and complete lies at worst. After 2 years of planning, she (Theresa May) came up with a shitty deal that would fuck the country over. She stubbornly refused to listen to others and proceeded to push for a plan that was doomed to fail. Did she genuinely think she was getting a good deal??? I doubt it... but her insistance that "this is what the country voted for" is as dumb as it comes. It doesn't matter what the country voted for (and even that was by a pretty slim margin) if its going to leave the country worse off financially and culturally. They've had the option to say "nah, this is daft" but they decided to push ahead regardless, knowing full well that we'd be worse off. These are supposedly the people who are meant to know whats best for the country... not some old racist grandmother who doesn't like the local shopkeeper or some far-right simpleton who thinks foreigners are stealing all the jobs but who hasn't worked a day in his life. And don't get me started on the fuel and ammo its given the likes of Tommy "I'm a Nazi bastard" Robinson who are stirring a wave of nationalism, feeding the stupid and ill informed with more lies and fear.

From day 1, the government thought they were far more important and needed by the EU than we actually are. As did most of those who voted to leave. They assumed we would be able to waltz in and demand any deal we wanted, but the EU said "OK, off you go" and called our bluff. We've been left with scraps since the EU, rightly so, didn't give in to our demands and don't actually need us as much as we think. Why should they? This left us fucked at the negotiatiating table before we started. All this bullshit about how the EU NEED to give us a better deal... NO. THEY. FUCKING. DON'T. They don't have to give us jack shit. If they are seen to give in to individual countries demands under a threat to leave teh EU, it will just start a chain reaction where a few other countries will have similar referendums and expect a similar deal. The EU needed to be seen to be strong and blunt here. We're getting no favours from them.

Worse still, after all the dust has settled, the entire world is going to have the upper hand in any trade negotiations with the UK as they will not be obliged to give us anything. We'll be getting scraps and a raw deal for many years to come because "its the best deal we could get". Yeah, shitty ones. Its one of the most short sighted decisions the UK has ever made.

Even the EU think this is madness and are being rather gracious with their "maybe we should just forget about all this" approach. I don't think there is any alterior motive with them... it just sounds like they are trying to save us from ourselves.

I reckon Theresa will win her vote of no-confidence today as those slack-jawed yokels, the DUP, will shore up their defences so they get to retain their big coin purse. This will probably lead to another referendum where the people will decide whats going to happen. I hope that the majority of the country decide this entire thing was a shambles and ill-thought out idea from day one and overwhelmingly reject Brexit and ditch the whole thing. I have seen and read of a few poeple who have, in hindsight, regretted the decision to vote leave... i've yet to see anyone say they regretted voting to stay!

Aquarian-Time
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Re: Brexit

Post by Aquarian-Time » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:20 am

What Laz69 said word for word basically

Ian
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Re: Brexit

Post by Ian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:49 am

Aquarian-Time wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:20 am
What Laz69 said word for word basically
Yeah, me too. What a fucking nightmare this has turned out to be.
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sunray
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Re: Brexit

Post by sunray » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:11 pm

Yep, Laz nailed it.
Glad that some in Britain can actually see the reality of the situation.

I've no time for Teresa May but if I was her i'd just walk away and say "Fuck the lot of you, you fucking sort it out then you stupid fucking twats!"
Bake me a cake and i'll do a handstand

is
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Re: Brexit

Post by is » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:20 pm

spacemanrich wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm
Martin,

Are you for a Brexit or do you want to stay in the E.U. ?

Controlling your country's own policies instead of Brussels.
I'm not Martin, but my short answer is that you're suggesting a false premise. Britain isn't, and was never in danger of, having its policies controlled 'by Brussels'. The politicians who fostered this lie did so because they saw a chance to scapegoat foreign powers for their own failures.

We are (for now) full members of a club, and our government, along with the governments of our fellow members, ran the club for all our benefit.

The regulations and policies which we agreed over the last 40 years to be bound by were there largely so that we could trade freely amongst ourselves within the club, and to ensure that instead of facing the world alone we had the benefit of doing so as part of the second largest economy in the world.

It's not perfect. How could it be? Nothing is.

The only people who will benefit are the people who always benefit - those with the capital to be able to bet against our prosperity: you know, the people who've been telling everyone how patriotic they are.

Martin L
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Re: Brexit

Post by Martin L » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:07 pm

Me, I’m for staying. I have to agree a lot with mojo filters and Laz 69. I’m all for democracy, but this has been so rushed, it took us from 1966 to 1971 to change over to decimal coinage and for us to leave should have taken longer with more consultation of what us voters wanted and expected.

I do feel sorry for Theresa May as she has inherited a poisoned chalice, but that’s politics “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all the people all of the time”

Anyway let’s remember that it was music that brought us here and we get to hear more whatever happens.

spacemanrich
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Re: Brexit

Post by spacemanrich » Fri May 24, 2019 8:41 pm

Huh, didn't know that Boris Johnson is a Yank ?

Another go at the merry go round. I, guess if he is elected then Brexit is almost a certainty ...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 202769001/

toomilk
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Re: Brexit

Post by toomilk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:25 pm

Boris. LOL.

(EDIT: I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing with you. And also nervous laughing regarding the rise of right-wing pseudo (and not so pseudo) fascism.)

olan
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Re: Brexit

Post by olan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm

spacemanrich wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:41 pm
Huh, didn't know that Boris Johnson is a Yank ?

Another go at the merry go round. I, guess if he is elected then Brexit is almost a certainty ...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 202769001/
Yep, by birth. He renounced his US Citizenship years ago though.

Martin L
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Re: Brexit

Post by Martin L » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:50 pm

olan wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm
spacemanrich wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:41 pm
Huh, didn't know that Boris Johnson is a Yank ?

Another go at the merry go round. I, guess if he is elected then Brexit is almost a certainty ...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 202769001/
Yep, by birth. He renounced his US Citizenship years ago though.
Can't we send him back over as he must be related to Trump!

spacemanrich
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Re: Brexit

Post by spacemanrich » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:07 am

And so what does today's vote mean ? Is their a possibility of a No Brexit if Boris announce an upcoming election and is defeated again ? October 31 is coming up soon.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UK- ... 408235.php

Rellay
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Re: Brexit

Post by Rellay » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:20 pm

A no-deal Brexit is not possible anymore, is it?

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