limited bootleg trading

anorthernsoul · Post by **anorthernsoul** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:18 pm

hello.
this isn't just a request for some of the stuff that's been doing the rounds recently, but i thought i'd raise the subject and see what everyone thought. i've been regularly and cheekily posting in the how the blues shoulda turned out thread to see if anyone would pass a copy on to me; i know there's a lot of people who didn't wanna buy it but do wanna hear it, and i'm sure other people have been asking for it. and now, there's will caruthers' collection of spiritualized rarities, which i think have all gone. before i start lazily asking for that one, too, what does everyone - maybe particularly people who own the releases, and paid for them - think? is it fair? should they just stay with people who spent hard earned schmackaroons on them?

i don't know.
i still want copies.

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:01 pm

hey northen soul - see the thread on the music section - FF is being torrented - get on there, and it solves half your problem.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:19 pm

but that only solves half of uhm err yeah, his problem.

i ponied up for the spiritualized rarities because i felt (like numerous others) that at 20 bucks, it's a good deal and that included shipping, plus will seems likea hell of a guy.

am i ticked off that it's already up on the computer and if i was clever enough i could figure out how to download it?? NOPE, just glad to know that i got a copy.

now about those "how the blues..." cd's??????

xxme

throb · Post by **throb** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:59 pm

I think I'm with Shonn on this one

I would (and have in the past) download Spiritualized stuff but (apart from the fact that I only get results by blind luck cos I've no idea what I'm doing), somehow having the real thing is just so much better. I got "Friendly Fire" today. Spending time reading the sleevenotes, and looking at the artwork as well as listening to THAT music (and, oh sweet Jesus it is fine music) just makes the whole experience so much more...complete...for me anyway.

Having said that I'll swap my cats, a mechanised hand I've got knocking around, and possibly everything else I own for a copy of the "Real Complete Works" in what ever format is going

davedecay · Post by **davedecay** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:50 am

y'know, sometimes i download music, most of it is live or demos, not commercial stuff.

i thought hard & since pete/sonic offered How the BLues to a few of us in the USA at a reduced rate, with less packaging, i sent him the money back in the Fall.

now i'm feeling it wasn't the best decision, since months and months later, they still haven't come. you try to do the right thing, and ya get burned.

live and learn, i guess.

purespace · Post by **purespace** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:49 pm

well, friendlyfire has already weighed in on this in the music section and is quite pissed that someone is seeding it on dimeadozen as of yesterday. If all of them have not sold out, I am in full support of friendly's pissedness. If they are gone, in this particular case, I would send Willie an email to inquire about his take on fans sending other fans copies of this. Who knows, maybe he plans to make more? But if it was cool with him, I'd gladly sort any of you out. But again, I am Willie's customer in this case, not the source, so the decision is entirely Willie's (did you heard that dimeadozen?). Willie must be feelin' a bit like "sometimes you kick the devil and the angels smash your face" about now, eh?

As for the Real Complete Works, I am the guilty party who offered it initially on this board. Not sure if I'm interested in doing this again as I sent out 7 full sets (49 cdrs) the first go round. PM me anyhow, I may be in a good mood as the sun is shining today. And I'm about to lay back in it.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:52 pm

ill burn someone a copy of guitarloops if they burn me a how the blues...!

purespace · Post by **purespace** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:55 pm

jack white wrote:ill burn someone a copy of guitarloops if they burn me a how the blues...!

rg1980 · Post by **rg1980** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:05 pm

purespace wrote:As for the Real Complete Works, I am the guilty party who offered it initially on this board. Not sure if I'm interested in doing this again as I sent out 7 full sets (49 cdrs) the first go round

forgive me innocence here...what actually is the Real Complete Works?! And how does it take up 7cdr's?! Or am i looking for something a bit more complicated and the Real Complete Works is infact all of the previous official spz releases?

Post by **spzretent** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:20 pm

i totally agree with Will.

Is nothing sacred anymore?

It seems like some people just cant wait to get this onto the internet. why?

Same w/How The Blues and Sonic asking that no one copy it or leak it to the internet.
I would have loved a copy but you know what, it was too pricey for me at the time and now I just have to live without it. Thats life!

ro · Post by ro » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:25 pm

but how come when people put stuff out like how the blues... and friendly fire they don't make more in the first place?
they know there are more than 50 or 100 people who want it, and they know that someone will eventually "share" it online.
i don't get it.

hey the italics worked. that's cool.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:28 pm

rg1980,

you don't know about the ' real ' complete works ? a limited pressing of (50) discs by J.Spaceman and signed by him. the price was steep (about 100 pounds) - but well worth it ...

slim · Post by **slim** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:54 pm

ro wrote:but how come when people put stuff out like how the blues... and friendly fire they don't make more in the first place?
they know there are more than 50 or 100 people who want it, and they know that someone will eventually "share" it online.
i don't get it.

hey the italics worked. that's cool.

Because it costs a lot of cash you may not have to have the CD pressed up and sleeve printed in the first place. These aren't, to my knowledge, CD-R knock offs with a rough photocopied thing shoved in the front of the CD box.

throb · Post by **throb** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:18 pm

"Friendly Fire" is, to all intents and purposes, as good a quality release in terms of artwork and sleeve notes as any "legitimate" album. You can see how much time and effort have gone into it's production and I can quite understand if Will's pissed that it's leaked to the internet.

I can't speak for "how the blues..." as I don't have it.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:02 pm

I would be pissed off too ! Will took the time, effort and money to bring this to us space cadets. I thought I was purchasing something that is 'special and limited' to true fans. I do understand the kind nature of someone seeding this for others and sharing the music, but shit can't you do this after this has been out for awhile ? I live in the U.S. and anticipate getting the 'friendly fire' soon and yet it is already out their for the masses ...

Post by **spzretent** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:38 pm

what seems really bad is whomever leaked it did so probably the same day they received it. i dont know if the person who posted about it was the same person who did this but it leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. and I am just a fan.
Imagine how Will feels. It really fucking shitty.

duppyconquerer · Post by **duppyconquerer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:07 pm

does J recieve a cut?

thought not

the more you print, the cheaper it is per head.

i bought one because i hope will gets a slice, which i'm sure he does. Anything else is redundant.

spacemanrich · Post by **spacemanrich** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:12 pm

i agree with you Spzretent ! i don't think Will is pleased with that sort of thing. at least we can narrow it down from someone in the u.k. that did this. will the culprit reveal himself ?

Post by **spzretent** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:26 am

duppyconquerer wrote:does J recieve a cut?
thought not
the more you print, the cheaper it is per head. i bought one because i hope will gets a slice, which i'm sure he does. Anything else is redundant.

Huh? What exactly is your point? Its ok when someone put time and effort to put out a beautiful item and who even played on the original release to just immediately make it available online? And who didn't want this to happen.
Maybe in your world.
I know for a fact J used to not care at all about boots. Well tapes anyway(rememebr them? the 80's versions of CDRs). He used to let people i know plug right into the board. I suppose if he was really upset it isn't hard to track this back.

ro · Post by ro » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:12 am

spacemanrich wrote:... I thought I was purchasing something that is 'special and limited' to true fans.

but you know there are more true fans than there are legitimate copies of friendly fire.
there is an endless supply of true spiritualized fans.

i got to buy one and i'm glad. but if i hadn't i'd be... sad.
sad enough to download it if i could, from someone "egalitarian" enough to have uploaded it!

it's a puzzle these days.
it'd be nice if Will had had the chance to take more names for a second run before it got "liberated"

throb · Post by **throb** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:47 am

from someone "egalitarian" enough to have uploaded it!

Well, its easy to be egalitarian with someone else's hard work.

Also, it seems to me that there's a world of difference between uploading the latest commercial release that's got all the corporate machinery and economies of scale behind it and ripping "Friendly Fire" which, as far as I know, was pretty much a labour of love by one guy...

clewsr · Post by **clewsr** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:33 am

Surely it was way too soon to torrent this. In 6, 12 months maybe. Its not as if it was overly expensive to purchase.

As to whether J got a cut, - did he get a cut from 'How the blue's' - surely not. Its well documented that Will wasn't exactly well paid for his time with spz, and its not exactly as if he was prifiteering - if he'd have followed the price model of how the blues, then it would have been Â£20. The price was well worth the effort of putting this together.

I hope everyone that bought it got a copy of his album and all. Certainly worth getting.

duppyconquerer · Post by **duppyconquerer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:42 am

I just don't really understand the shock, it's the internet afterall and these things are bound to happen. They could have made a few more copies. I'm glad i bought one, but if I had missed out I would have wanted someone to tape it me. isn't torrenting just the same thing but more people?
In my world it's much more irratating for someone to leak an album before it's release.

and as they are so limited anyway, they'll all get snapped up. so everyone will make the same amount of money they would have done anyway...so it's just a case of I've got a proper copy and you haven't, but the proper copies took longer to reach the US.

it doesn't really matter!

and if they did a second run I'm sure they'd sell out as well. Just as a second run of 'how the blues would...'

'home taping is killing music' ! remember those stickers? It didn't did it! It just makes either cheap skates, or people unable to get copy a chance to hear it.

rg1980 · Post by **rg1980** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:30 am

duppyconquerer wrote:'home taping is killing music' ! remember those stickers? It didn't did it! It just makes either cheap skates, or people unable to get copy a chance to hear it.

I agree with the point about taping not doing much noteable damage, but there's a difference between dishing out half a dozen copies to your mates, and posting it on the internet for millions to use. We don't know what the consequences will be because the internet hasn't been around long enough. But if you wanna compare the music industry now to say, 15years ago, a hell of a lot has changed which COULD be a direct result of the internet and file-swapping. It isn't to do with people's tastes either. Music today - thanks to the internet - is even more convenient that it was a few years ago. People (en mass) don't take the time or trouble to invest in actually LISTENING to the music and discovering new artists or treasuring the thing they hold in their hand - the vinyl or cd. An mp3 is downloaded, listened to in crap quality. And discarded. This convenience is leading to a trend where the music industry is even more desparate for a 'quick buck' - and so they in turn are unwilling to invest in experimental or ground breaking artists cos it isn't safe or financially viable. And if people en mass nick it from the net, there's less money filtering through to the companies and artists who will both just give up, cos it isn't raking in big money. So what do we get as a result? More Pop Idol's, more Arctic Monkeys, more Oasis style bands - just take a look at what money and greed has done to hip-hop - original NWA against 50cent?!! Even the NME are now more concerned with what the bloody musician is wearing than the tunes! Yes, the internet has opened up more bands to being heard. BUT, is that a good thing? Superficially and in the short term yes, but to form new, exciting ground breaking movements then surely no. Who has the time to trawl through mySpace and all of the others? You might dip in and out on a dozen or so bands every now and then, but thats all. Is that enough to make the industry sit up and take note of the bands? Personally i don't think so, but we'll have to wait and see for the next big thing. In the mean time, Arctic Monkeys anyone? No? Thought not.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:27 pm

I don't think there's really an argument here. Will had 50 copies up for sale and, as far as I know, sold 50 copies. He put in the effort and made his money regardless of whether the CD was then ripped and made available on the net. If he'd made more CD's then he'd of made more money. The trouble is, there were only 50 to start with. Its a simple case of supply and demand.

You're always going to get the odd individual who's going to see the words "limited edition", buy a copy and then see if they can make a quick profit on E-Bay. Look how many copies of Guitar Loops found their way on to there. That's life I'm afraid. Will's been in the "business" long enough to realise this.

Most of us have been lucky enough to get various Spiritualized/Spacemen 3 rarerities off the net or off of others on this board, so to suddenly knock someone for doing exactly the same is rather hypocritical don't you think. Can't quite believe some of you guys have actually started a witch hunt (and no it wasn't me that leaked it...though would love to get my hands on an original or a copy!).

rg1980 · Post by **rg1980** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:30 pm

spacemanrich wrote:you don't know about the ' real ' complete works ? a limited pressing of (50) discs by J.Spaceman and signed by him. the price was steep (about 100 pounds) - but well worth it ...

no, afraid not. What was on the CD's? Do they come up on places like ebay much?

ro · Post by ro » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:07 pm

throb wrote:
from someone "egalitarian" enough to have uploaded it!
Well, its easy to be egalitarian with someone else's hard work.
Also, it seems to me that there's a world of difference between uploading the latest commercial release that's got all the corporate machinery and economies of scale behind it and ripping "Friendly Fire" which, as far as I know, was pretty much a labour of love by one guy...

i agree. so does "friendly" in the FF thread.
i agree with almost everything that's being said, both sides...
in a few years there will be some new invention that will change things again. meanwhile, i don't think human nature's going to change.
people used to go out to movie-houses to watch films. but now the small cinemas can't afford to stay open because everyone has movies at home.

yeah, nothing much is sacred anymore, i think that's true.

duppyconquerer · Post by **duppyconquerer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:38 pm

The End?...

Post by **spzretent** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:38 pm

The point here is it wasn't that the cd leaked so much as the post announcing it. the same day the "fan" who bought it from Will presumably received it. A modern day internet Robin Hood.

I am surprised that How The Blues never leaked. That is something of a small miracle these days.

Is there really on 50 of this? I was offered more than one. It seems odd to only press up 50 if you know trhe demand is there for more. A lot more.

a beautiful noise · Post by **a beautiful noise** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:53 pm

will is making boot copies of rare/practice sessions and selling them.

he sold them to me and countless others on this board. obviously someone is also selling them to record stores because i highly doubt that someone here bought some and then resold it to the record shop the same day. could possibly be the same person who is putting them on the net.

i think the "limited edition only 50 available" is a bit misleading. he offered me as many as i could purchase. i think that was a bit of a sales pitch to generate interest and possibly to validate the price to the other folks that don't constantly hang out here.

so let's not play the sympathy card when we truly don't know the facts behind it. will is hopefully selling a few of his own discs along with it as well.

it's just great to know that this existed and that we are going to be able to hear it. that's all that is important to me.

thanks to will. (cause you know jase would have horded these in his basement for years).

xxme

p/s- i wasn't trying to knock on anyone's post, just trying to piece the puzzle together.

wolfboy · Post by **wolfboy** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:08 am

easy. no one can have sour grapes about having ' their' bootlegs bootlegged. and that especially goes for sonic and the less outspoken ( on this forum anyway) will. that's not will's record to ' put ' out any more than it is anybody else's on the forum to put out. don't feel sorry for the bloke when you're copying it, feel sorry for jason instead. the same goes for sonics bootlegs. my heart bleeds everytime somebody bootlegs one of his precious bootlegs. take off your sunglasses and think about what you're doing. go forth and multiply bootleggers! on a more positive note, check out this amazing footage of biggie doing freestyle when he was only 17:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4PN0tvH ... us%20b.i.g.

tell me you don't like that shit .

wolfboy · Post by **wolfboy** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:37 am

and continuing quickly. so what if will does all the artwork himself. when i make a friend a compilation i might also make the cover but i don't charge them a tenner or whatever for the luxury. what does he want for allthis?
a blue peter badge for bootlegging? have nice day peeps.

will · Post by **will** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:30 am

Hi Wolfy ,
You're new here aren't you ?

I'd just like to draw your attention to a few facts that appear to have been mislaid .
If you read the original post , you might realise that I didn't actually manufacture the
articles in question , your honour , I received them from a mysterious source .
They arrived, unbidden , in a battered old sea chest , that reeked of rum and had a return address
somewhere in the jungles of Cambodia .
There was a note inside .
It said "thank you for the music .Here is your paltry cut from the thousands of cd's I am
manufacturing in order to fund my international plutonium smuggling operation . Buy yourself
some sweets , love Jaunita ".
And, lo , I was the proud owner of fifty of them.
Obviously , I've had my ass bootlegged before , even by Jason , and never received a copy so
I was quite impressed by the generosity of my anonymous patron.
I know , I thought , those nice fans would like to hear this ...
And here we are ...like one big happy family ...Me ? Rich beyond my wildest dreams .

you ? Lost in music .
I have been aware of this new fangled internet thing for a while, and realise that some
people do indulge in illicit nocturnal file swapping .I feel this is quite acceptable for
the poor , the infirm ,the elderly,the young and the unavailible .
Beyond this , well , it gets complicated .

Isn't it great though?
I'd love to go into detail on the moral angle of the whole thing with you, regarding
ownership, fair recompense and common decency , but I think I might be wasting my time .

Who Knows , maybe Jason sold his fifty copies to someone brave enough to stock it .
After all , people want it and you can't buck the market eh ?
anyway
get back to the cur who whelped you .
love
Wilie B Carruthers

gavshak · Post by **gavshak** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:11 pm

how profound.

Meo · Post by **Meo** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:31 am

You Have Got To Love Will

End Of