Audio advice please!

[runcible]

The age old question of backing up vinyl/cassettes to mp3 etc. I'm afraid.

I have masses of vinyl I'd love to convert to mp3 so I can play on my ipod and burn mixed CDs etc. I considered something like an iRiver but suspect the better idea would be a USB turntable. Anyone have suggestions?

I also have a lot of cassettes of reggae that's unavailable and DJ mixes - again I want to get them mp3'd. My cassette deck is on the blink and I wondered if a good USB cassette deck is the way to go.

I'm sure many of you have experience with this. What do you think? Recommendations? I'd be well grateful.

[Fuzzhead]

Runcible,

I got this exact device a couple of months ago:

http://www.afterhours.co.uk/xitel-inpor ... ce=froogle

It's excellent and easy to use.

It saves you having to buy another USB turntable just to convert from.

All you do is connect this little box to your normal turntable and connect it via a USB cable to your PC. Simple.

One thing though - you'll have to buy a pre-amp to connect to the box. It doesn't come included. They're cheap though - I got a new one for £15.

I'd definitely recommend it.

[runcible]

That does indeed look useful. I investigated some other stuff similar but which didn't appear to be quite as good as this as I think the Xintel set up would sound much better. The problem I have is that all my stereo equipment is in a different room to the computer which rather complicates things! One to bear in mind though - thanks!

[rameses]

I used to have an iRiver iHP-120 (ah those were the days when 20Gbs of storage seemed like enough ) and used it for converting some vinyl to mp3. I just conencted it's 'line in' socket to the 'tape out' of my amp. The quality was as good as you'd expect for an mp3. I did need to tidy the recordings up a bit on the PC later though, Audacity is a good bit of software if you don't have anything already (and it's free).

USB turntables are a bit rubbish - they do the job ok but if you already have a turntable and amp etc how about just connecting the line out of the amp to the line in / mic of the PC's sound card (obviously this depends on how far apart the rooms are).

[PontiacB]

I used to have an iRiver iHP-120 (ah those were the days when 20Gbs of storage seemed like enough ) and used it for converting some vinyl to mp3. I just conencted it's 'line in' socket to the 'tape out' of my amp. The quality was as good as you'd expect for an mp3. I did need to tidy the recordings up a bit on the PC later though, Audacity is a good bit of software if you don't have anything already (and it's free).

USB turntables are a bit rubbish - they do the job ok but if you already have a turntable and amp etc how about just connecting the line out of the amp to the line in / mic of the PC's sound card (obviously this depends on how far apart the rooms are).

I totally agree with the above - a device like the iRiver iHP-120 (which I use) or Zoom/Edirol recorder is very useful for this purpose in that they are portable and can then be connected to the PC to enable editing via Audacity.

[sunray]

ION usb turntables....How the fuck do you get them to record anything that's listenable. I've tried the Audacity software and the EZ software too and both come out sounding like shit
I connect the turntable to my bogstandard, near 20 years old, Pioneer stereo with it's twin tape deck, radio and cd multichanger all-in-one job. Then the usb cable from turntable to laptop and that's it. All my attempts at recording are rubbish, quite muffled and/or distorted. I've had this about 3 & a half years but only now getting round to transferring vinyl with it.

All advice welcome.

[beaker73]

I bought an Edirol R-09 just for this purpose. Is has a pretty good A/D-converter en let's you record in hi-rez (24-bits/ 96khz) WAV. If you want to. It also records straigth into mp3, but I wouldn't recommend it, if you care about soundquality.
You could also use a laptop, with a good external soundcard, like maybe one from M-audio (laptops usully have crap internal soundcards). It also helps to have a good phono preamp. So it all depends how audiophile you wanna be about this
The Edirol works for me, it isn't cheap, but it's good and you can also use it to bootleg gigs!

[mojo filters]

If you have your regular record player (plus RIAA phono stage if not one on amp) connected up to a regular amp with a tape deck in the tape loop (i.e. connecting BOTH to and from the tape deck with 2 phono leads) then you should be able to easily route the signal coming in from the turntable to the tape deck, or by moving the amp > tape deck leads so they go amp > sound card, other recording source etc. Sometimes integrated amps have extra preamp outs you can use instead, without disturbing the tape deck connections.

It's easy to find cheap USB interfaces on Amazon etc that let you connect phono leads to both go into the computer, and also out of it. Off the top of my head I can't think of any names apart from Alesis, but I'm sure one of those companies that makes the crappy USB turntables also makes/made a much cheaper I/O USB interface with phono plug inputs and outputs. Also USB interfaces with 1/4" jack or even balanced XLR jacks can be easily adapted via cheap adaptors from Maplins, Studiospares and the like to perform the same task.

[TheWarmth]

I don't think there is any easy way to convert vinyl to mp3. I have a cable with RCAs on one end and an 1/8" plug on the other. I run it from the CD Out on my receiver and directly into the phono input of my MacBook. I record using Audacity and also use that program to chop up the tracks and export them. It's a pain in the ass, but IMO, the end result sounds good. I think this is a preferable method to a USB turntable, but then again I have a friend who has a USB turntable and I think his transfers sound alright.

[mojo filters]

I don't think there is any easy way to convert vinyl to mp3. I have a cable with RCAs on one end and an 1/8" plug on the other. I run it from the CD Out on my receiver and directly into the phono input of my MacBook. I record using Audacity and also use that program to chop up the tracks and export them. It's a pain in the ass, but IMO, the end result sounds good. I think this is a preferable method to a USB turntable, but then again I have a friend who has a USB turntable and I think his transfers sound alright.

Using the analogue 1/8" input is always an option for this kind of thing, however the results are very dependant on the A/D conversion within your own computer's soundcard.

I don't personally have any experience of this using Macs, however the anecdotal evidence I've read/heard suggests Apple machines of all varieties tend to have better quality conversion than PCs, the quality of whose internal soundcard in general and audio A/D conversion in particular, varies quite a lot depending on the machine. Inexpensive and average-priced laptops in particular do not seem to have such a good reputation, thus for audio quality-critical purposes external A/D and D/A devices are usually recommended.

For a budget solution to recording from a line level source (eg pre-amp phono outputs, or integrated amp TO tape deck part of tape loop) the item linked below looks like a bargain, and handily includes useful software and a copy of Audacity:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-phono-to-u ... ite-513689

I think this would be ideal for converting cassettes (where the frequency range is more limited than uncompressed digital or high quality turntable + RIAA phono preamp output).

It should also do a very decent job from turntables - certainly producing better results than going straight into the 1/8" input, if not producing the very highest of fi. However at that reduced price you've little to lose!

The only reason I'm not buying one is that I have a well-maintained and still serviceable Sony tape deck, and don't currently have any cassettes I want digitised to archive - though I'm tempted as I still have an 8-track porta-studio, with various unfinished projects waiting for completion and mixdown ... if anyone does buy this (or something similar) a quick write-up on this thread would be nice to read.

Anything significantly more audiophile-grade would cost perhaps 5 times the price at the least, and likely make no difference to old cassette tapes (unless they were the pricey Metal-Bias Type IV, in tip-top condition, recorded on/played back using a really upmarket machine from the likes of Nakamichi, using Dolby S or 'High Com' noise reduction ... you get my drift!).

Anyways hope this helps, apologies for not being as concise as I could have been

[redcloud]

I don't think there is any easy way to convert vinyl to mp3.

Well, there used to be.

I once had a Pioneer analog-digital cd burner that worked much like a tape deck. It used "music only" cd-r's and you had to increment in between each track to separate the songs or else it would record as one long track one. Sometimes difficult when songs blended but....it could be done AND, more importantly, I thought my Pioneer burner sounded good. But this was 2004-2007 when I had it. I ended up selling it, however, when we left England and since then the technology seems to have moved in the direction of needing usb turntables or cables linking stereo to laptops using Audacity style software etc. Seems to be such a chore and has lost the fun (same with making digital comps....I have great memories of making tapes but doing a digital comp recently was aggravating beyond belief!).

Anyway, long story short...I have seen a few used analog-digital machines at a couple record stores here in town and I have been tempted to buy another one. But, I'm not sure if they still make the "music only" cd-r's needed for the machine?

[TheWarmth]

I think the "music only" CDRs you're referring to are the ones with the cd logo that also say "digital audio". I believe you can still get them. I'm pretty sure Sony makes them. They are the only CDRs that work with my component cd burner.

[olan]

I don't think there is any easy way to convert vinyl to mp3.

Well, there used to be.

I once had a Pioneer analog-digital cd burner that worked much like a tape deck. It used "music only" cd-r's and you had to increment in between each track to separate the songs or else it would record as one long track one. Sometimes difficult when songs blended but....it could be done AND, more importantly, I thought my Pioneer burner sounded good. But this was 2004-2007 when I had it. I ended up selling it, however, when we left England and since then the technology seems to have moved in the direction of needing usb turntables or cables linking stereo to laptops using Audacity style software etc. Seems to be such a chore and has lost the fun (same with making digital comps....I have great memories of making tapes but doing a digital comp recently was aggravating beyond belief!).

Anyway, long story short...I have seen a few used analog-digital machines at a couple record stores here in town and I have been tempted to buy another one. But, I'm not sure if they still make the "music only" cd-r's needed for the machine?

I have an M-Audio MicroTrack, which I've used in a variety of recording situations (cough, couch) and locations over the years. It takes line-level inputs and has built in microphones, so it is very adaptable. I've been using it for several years, although not to make digital copies of my LPs yet. Anyway, the point here is that you make your recording to an SSD card (I think that is what it is called - card from a digital camera) and then transfer it to PC by USB or by plugging the card in if you have the appropriate socket on your PC. Because the Microtrak is a purpose designed recording device, it is very easy and flexible to use. You can tracksplit/declick using Audacity etc.

There are newer machines that probably do more, but if you have a decent T/T or tape deck, I can't see the point of many of these newer ION devices. Neither can I see the point of a dedicated CD burner any longer as the notebook or PC can do a better job these days.

[sunray]

Thanks everyone for the response. Got to be honest a lot of what i've read is techno-speak gobbledegook
Mojo - that device from Maplins looks good but, unfortunately, it's not available online or in stock in their Dublin stores.

Checked my basic 3 in 1 stereo and it has a cd/aux II input and a phono/aux I input, if this helps with explanations at all.

I have remembered I have a Sony amp back in my folk's, so would I be correct in thinking that if I connect my speakers and usb turntable to the amp and then my turntable to the laptop it should improve the sound quality?
I also have non usb turntables too, so I could just run a jack from amp into the laptop?
Personally, I wouldn't have bothered with a usb turntable but it was bought as a present so I should make use of it.

Apologies for being a complete idiot on this subject.

[redcloud]

Neither can I see the point of a dedicated CD burner any longer as the notebook or PC can do a better job these days.

Well, at the time I really liked my Pioneer burner but I do think the dedicated analog-digital components are probably like laser disc players/VHS/DAT these days....dinosaurs collecting dust.

[olan]

Neither can I see the point of a dedicated CD burner any longer as the notebook or PC can do a better job these days.

Well, at the time I really liked my Pioneer burner but I do think the dedicated analog-digital components are probably like laser disc players/VHS/DAT these days....dinosaurs collecting dust.

I wasn't having a pop. I don't even own a CD player any longer. Everything is ripped to a NAS and streamed in my house, so I really should have said that I don't really see the point of a CD burner of any sort. Sadly the CD is well on the way to following the floppy disk and audio cassette, useful portable storage, but technically superceded.

(I might need to duck for cover at this point, but the MP3 download (mainly), the hi-res download (partially), and vinyl are killing off the CD pretty rapidly).

[redcloud]

I wasn't having a pop.

It's all good, man. I know you weren't.

I think the horrendous waste created when making CD's didn't help (I know vinyl has significant waste too but at least a lot of companies reuse the vinyl trimmings). Thankfully cd's have become slightly more green as the years have gone on. Getting rid of the huge plastic security cases that once housed them and the jewel cases moving to card has been a good move. But, I think the cd is mainly on its way out because young kids today buy songs and when they do it's almost all done on i-tunes or d/l off the internet. My 12 year old son is probably one of the very few kids in his school who actually buys cd's. But, he always goes to a local used record store with me and will buy used cd's for no more than $7 (often cheaper).

[jadams501]

Thankfully cd's have become slightly more green as the years have gone on. Getting rid of the huge plastic security cases that once housed them and the jewel cases moving to card has been a good move. But, I think the cd is mainly on its way out because young kids today buy songs and when they do it's almost all done on i-tunes or d/l off the internet.

I miss plastic jewel cases! Clumsy and prone to cracking as they were, they also protected the CD and artwork and I appreciated there being a standardized system. The cardboard digipacks literally start falling apart the minute you tear off the plastic, and are a factor in me buying fewer CDs recently.

[mojo filters]

Thankfully cd's have become slightly more green as the years have gone on. Getting rid of the huge plastic security cases that once housed them and the jewel cases moving to card has been a good move. But, I think the cd is mainly on its way out because young kids today buy songs and when they do it's almost all done on i-tunes or d/l off the internet.

I miss plastic jewel cases! Clumsy and prone to cracking as they were, they also protected the CD and artwork and I appreciated there being a standardized system. The cardboard digipacks literally start falling apart the minute you tear off the plastic, and are a factor in me buying fewer CDs recently.

I agree that jewel cases for all their flaws still are the best way to store CDs, and those flaws have been reduced over the years as the plastics used have become more resistant to breakage and designs changed slightly in some cases.

Card digipacks look nice and have a tactile appeal when new, but easily bend and tear once they're open. Also they bruise far too easily even when just in storage with regular CDs.

I've bought loads of bargain 2nd hand CDs. Those that came in jewel cases have mostly been in excellent condition - and if not they are usually fixed by replacing the cracked case, preserving the disc and artwork.

Also I find discs such as Sweet Heart, Sweet Light take extra care too, especially with the card surround providing the only external clue to the disc's identity. I find that frequent use of this type of CD can often lead to losing the card surround, and frequent removal/replacement of the card easily leads to minor damage, as can the rigours of regular storage alongside regular jewel cases.

However I will always like CDs for the convenience of the format - I like a permanent physical item when I purchase music. I can see the attraction of downloads in some circumstances (especially for musicians who are unable to invest in pressing records/CDs but are keen to distribute their output) but why so often are format choices so regressive, and why is it the biggest players seem to be the worst offenders?

I was happy to embrace hi-res formats and am disappointed that after the failure of DVD-A and SACD on disc, they did not really progress via other distribution channels. The potential of these formats could have been realised in the download market, as downloading gets faster, storage media becomes cheaper and hard-drive distribution is becoming the norm.

[redcloud]

I miss plastic jewel cases! Clumsy and prone to cracking as they were, they also protected the CD and artwork and I appreciated there being a standardized system. The cardboard digipacks literally start falling apart the minute you tear off the plastic, and are a factor in me buying fewer CDs recently.

I agree that jewel cases for all their flaws still are the best way to store CDs, and those flaws have been reduced over the years as the plastics used have become more resistant to breakage and designs changed slightly in some cases.

Card digipacks look nice and have a tactile appeal when new, but easily bend and tear once they're open. Also they bruise far too easily even when just in storage with regular CDs.

Card/digipacks can show wear and tear but so do record sleeves and books. Yes, one can buy PVC record sleeves to put your LP's in but how many of us have older albums with ring wear, the edges a bit torn and the card split on the spine or the top/bottom? Anybody who buys used records knows what I am talking about. A damaged cover will lower the price on the record but if the vinyl is in good shape will it stop you from buying the LP? Unless you are buying to store in a collection never to be played then yes, you may think twice but most of us probably play the music we buy.

Before we heap too much praise on the jewel case...how many have jewel cases that are cracked or the teeth that the cd locks into have fallen out? Or, the opening hinges have broken, or the art has ripped from the tabs that hold it in place after taking it out too many times? All of this is no different in my opinion than the flaws of the card/digipack.