Greatest Sporting Moment

Shaun · Post by **Shaun** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:40 pm

Five time champion Tom Watson standing on the 18th green with a putt to win The Open golf tournament aged 59. He didn't sink it and ended up losing in a 2 way 4 hole play-off. It was a real shame he didn't hole that putt but did he need to anyway because being the last player to take a shot in 72 hole regulation play and it being a shot to win The Open was a moment in sport that might never been seen again.

The Independent newspaper recently run a feature called Great Sporting Moments and can be viewed here >> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 33747.html <<

bunnyben · Post by **bunnyben** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:26 pm

how about worse moments? off the top of my head i'd say zidane being sent off in the final. the greatest player to play in my lifetime purely being stupid when he should have lifted the cup

solarflarez · Post by **solarflarez** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:33 pm

best moment ; Aston Villa winning the European Cup in '82!!!!!!! ha ha

Sound of Confusion · Post by **Sound of Confusion** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:32 pm

I think the greatest has to be Nottingham Forest winning the European cup twice in 79 and 80, sorry Villa we did it twice.

solarflarez · Post by **solarflarez** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:07 pm

i know you did mate, with the best manager ever (at that time)
but oh how times have changed! ha ha

Sound of Confusion wrote:I think the greatest has to be Nottingham Forest winning the European cup twice in 79 and 80, sorry Villa we did it twice.

Luminescence · Post by **Luminescence** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:58 am

Personally, for me, te greatest sporting moment was at Wembley 1999. Manchester City beating Gillingham in the division 2 playoff final. What a day...

BVCP206 · Post by **BVCP206** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:22 pm

1st place, 1991/2 Division 1 Championship.

2nd place, Alex Higgins beating Steve Davis in the 1983 UK Championship Snooker Final.

3rd place, Barcelona beating/destroying 'them' in the Champions League Final.

Happy Daze

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:32 am

I'll give mine but it will mean nothing to y'all methinks.

1997 Stanley Cup Finals Game 4. Detroit vs Philadelphia. Detroit up 3-0 in a first team to win 4 games in a 7 game series. They had not won the Stanley Cup in 42 years. They win 2-1 and the whole state goes nuts.
Its been a good run since then. 4 Stanley Cups in 12 years. But none were like 1997!

Luminescence · Post by **Luminescence** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:58 pm

I like the NHL myself. The redwings are pretty much the top team nowadays are'nt they? I saw NY Rangers a year or two ago. Great sport, but can't watch it as i can't afford to subscribe to NASN...

Post by **runcible** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:47 pm

- Walking to my seat at Elland Road for the European Cup semi-final 1st leg Leeds vs Barcelona in 1975. The noise was so intense it frightened me, yet no teams were on the pitch as it was still 20 minutes before kick-off - it was just the frenzy of the crowd (no amplified music, no 'jazzing up' of the supporters, just plain old-fashioned passion).

- The 2nd Liverpool goal against Man Utd at Anfield in 1992 which secured Leeds title, watching on telly and the realisation hitting me.

- Wiltord scoring at Old Trafford to effectively win the league for Arsenal (who I don't even support) a few years back. I went crazy in my kitchen all alone, screaming and shouting, before wondering what my neighbours must think.

- Johnny Wilkinson's drop goal (as much to do with Matt Dawson's fake pass to create the space as anything else) to win the Rugby World Cup for England in 2003. Sitting in bed that morning with my cat (sadly departed Fudge) and exploding into frenzy and running around the house shouting me head off (to the extent Fudge vanished for almost 12 hours).

- Messi's header in May to seal Barca's Champions League win.

- Steve Redgrave's 5th Olympic gold in Sydney. Few sportsman achieved what that man did. Hats off - ultimate respect.

- Lynford Christie's 100 metres gold in 1992. That made quite an impact when watching it live.

- The 1997 Red Wings celebration - 1.2 million people turned out for the victory parade. Fuck. That's more than came out for the entire Queen's Golden Jubilee parade in 2002. Taught me something about the importance of ice hockey in Detroit.

Post by **runcible** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:29 pm

I also have to mention this goal. Sure it's against the old scum but the touch shown by Edmundo is of a quality rarely seen ever. Applause to anyone who can do this. Silvestre didn't know where the player, let alone the ball, had gone. I'll never forget it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuiOPuNe0N0

solarflarez · Post by **solarflarez** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:01 pm

A recent contender........ us beating the scum at their place on Saturday

Luminescence · Post by **Luminescence** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:43 pm

Any of Usain Bolt's various record braking antics over the last year or so.

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:09 pm

Luminescence wrote:Any of Usain Bolt's various record braking antics over the last year or so.

Yeah, that's easily the best of the decade, I'd say. Watching him smash both the 100m and 200m records over a couple of days was nothing short of phenomenal.

nickh · Post by **nickh** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:04 pm

I was lucky enough to be at all these games.

Fulham beating Aston Villa at Villa Park 2-0 in the third round of the FA Cup in 1999. Fulham were in (what is now) Division 1, Villa were top of the prem. Steve Hayward and Simon Morgan, wherever you are, hats off.

Zoltan Geraâ€™s 88th minute goal against Manchester United at Craven Cottage last season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBptMk6K ... re=related

Danny Murphyâ€™s 80th minute goal against Portsmouth at Fratton Park to keep Fulham in the prem in May 2008.

John Harleyâ€™s goal against Aston Villa at Loftus Road a few years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du12x1_q ... re=related

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:07 pm

I was 17 years old and my old man and I were at this game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRPI1KazqE8

For those who can't be bothered watching all 8 of the videos, the game was third longest in NFL history (5 hours) and the Browns won in double overtime!

However, just a couple weeks ago my son and I had the opportunity to go to Kansas City for the Browns vs Chiefs game on 12/20/09 and witnessed this live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuBjsZRT00

And if that were not enough he went on to do it again a few minutes later:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQAZCip ... re=related

To top it off our Running Back; Jerome Harrison also set a record on 12/20/09 and ran for nearly 290 yards: the third best run total for one game in NFL history. We traveled all the way there hoping to watch a good game but not expecting much due to the Browns recent struggles both on and off the field. It was better than either one of us could have hoped for and we left singing and dancing with the many other Browns fans that traveled to KC to see their team. Definitely a good day to be a Cleveland Browns fan!

Post by **spzretent** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:09 pm

I can appreciate this but trust me, this is gonna fall on mostly deaf ears. People outside of the US cant get their heads around American football. Too many players. Too much stopping and starting. trust me, I was over 3 years in a row Super Bowl weekend. Tried expalining it to my hosts. It made no sense to them.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:24 am

spzretent wrote:I can appreciate this but trust me, this is gonna fall on mostly deaf ears. People outside of the US cant get their heads around American football.

I know. But, it's only fair that all of us can add our two cents to every thread. Those who are interested will read, those who aren't will move on. Fine with me.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:27 pm

2day was actually pretty great. super leeds duffing the scum at old trafford. stick it up your arse fergie. god, he (& them) is such a fucking scumbag, full of so much anti-leeds bullshit & always a pig fucking hypocrite.
fucking yes! champions of england?? they're just lucky it wasn't at elland rd or leeds would put 4 or 5 past them.

nickh · Post by **nickh** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:39 pm

Congratulations to Leeds, as a neutral I really enjoyed this match and Leeds were more than good for the win.

Assume you are celebrating Mark?

Post by **runcible** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:48 am

I missed it! Kids birthday cinema party yesterday and my Sky + fucked up so all I have seen is a 40 second highlights clip.

I'm happy off course and the text telling me the result I received in the middle of the agonisingly dull Alvin & The Chipmunks 2 almost made me lose track of the movie's plot.

cantona · Post by **cantona** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:24 pm

Why not just enjoy the victory yesterday which was fully deserved, instead of your ABU obsession. It's fucking pathetic that you worries more about United than supporting your own scum club.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:40 pm

because all week long it's been anti-leeds everyday in the football press, fuelled by fergie who NEVER misses a chance to talk about how horrible he finds leeds fans. he should look in his own backyard. & the fucking hacks that lap up his lies & print them never seem too quick to question fergie over utd's bad habits - or his bad midfield. fergie musta been relishing a chance to kick leeds while they were down & that's why it's an even sweeter victory. (& add to the fact a couple more aspects of the context & history of this game, it seems already like a classic)

cantona · Post by **cantona** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:24 pm

jack white wrote:because all week long it's been anti-leeds everyday in the football press

Is that United fault?

jack white wrote:fuelled by fergie who NEVER misses a chance to talk about how horrible he finds leeds fans

link?

And the rest of your post is just more ABU

Post by **runcible** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:01 pm

cantona wrote:Why not just enjoy the victory yesterday which was fully deserved, instead of your ABU obsession. It's fucking pathetic that you worries more about United than supporting your own scum club.

I did just enjoy the victory. Sadly you are coming across just the same as almost every other Man U fan I know. Blinkered & unable to see any justification in people disliking your club - it's like a condition all Man U fans have. And you think the word 'United' is always used to describe your team - that's pretty arrogant.

People revel in Man U's misery because Ferguson, great manager beyond question, is such a repugnant and ungracious figure. The ultimate example of someone throwing their toys out of the pram every chance they get.

I learned a long time ago you never, EVER gloat about the victory of your own team, the loss of another etc. Sure I love it when Man U lose, but I have mates who support them and I haven't said anything to them about yesterday beyond a simple football discussion. Football has a habit of biting you in the arse if you do. Believe it or not I used to like Man U - I supported them at the 1983 Brighton cup final and I went to both games and cheered them on. It's Ferguson who has made me despise them - that simple.

If you support a high quality team you get hated. I'm old enough to have seen the great Revie Leeds side many times and everyone hated us because we were one of the best teams. That's how football works mate - just accept it, and the more it winds you up the more the ABU's enjoy it.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:50 pm

What is an ABU which keeps being referenced?

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:35 pm

spzretent wrote:What is an ABU which keeps being referenced?

Anyone But United.

Fergie complaining that they only got 5 minutes injury time

He really is one of the main reasons they're hated so much. I didn't think there was anymore than 3 minutes warranted.

Post by **spzretent** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:20 pm

Ah.
Gotta love the underdog and if it weren't so bone chilling cold here yesterday I would have been sporting my long sleeve Leeds jersey! And I must admit I am a Leeds fan by friendship as are my English friends Detroit Red Wing fans.

Post by **runcible** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:52 pm

spzretent wrote:Ah.
And I must admit I am a Leeds fan by friendship as are my English friends Detroit Red Wing fans.

What he said.

cantona · Post by **cantona** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:17 am

runcible wrote:
cantona wrote:Why not just enjoy the victory yesterday which was fully deserved, instead of your ABU obsession. It's fucking pathetic that you worries more about United than supporting your own scum club.
I did just enjoy the victory. Sadly you are coming across just the same as almost every other Man U fan I know. Blinkered & unable to see any justification in people disliking your club - it's like a condition all Man U fans have. And you think the word 'United' is always used to describe your team - that's pretty arrogant.

People revel in Man U's misery because Ferguson, great manager beyond question, is such a repugnant and ungracious figure. The ultimate example of someone throwing their toys out of the pram every chance they get.

I learned a long time ago you never, EVER gloat about the victory of your own team, the loss of another etc. Sure I love it when Man U lose, but I have mates who support them and I haven't said anything to them about yesterday beyond a simple football discussion. Football has a habit of biting you in the arse if you do. Believe it or not I used to like Man U - I supported them at the 1983 Brighton cup final and I went to both games and cheered them on. It's Ferguson who has made me despise them - that simple.

If you support a high quality team you get hated. I'm old enough to have seen the great Revie Leeds side many times and everyone hated us because we were one of the best teams. That's how football works mate - just accept it, and the more it winds you up the more the ABU's enjoy it.

It has nothing to do with people hating United. Yes I write United as long as you write Man U. It is pathetic that many supporters are more obsessed with United losing, than actually supporting your own team.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:54 am

cantona wrote:
It has nothing to do with people hating United. Yes I write United as long as you write Man U. It is pathetic that many supporters are more obsessed with United losing, than actually supporting your own team.

I don't understand what you are saying here. It has 'nothing' to do with hating them but it's about people wanting them to lose? People do hate Man U, just accept it. As a Leeds fan I've got used to the fact that anyone who doesn't support my team hates them. The fact that you've reacted in the way you have shows how much it bothers you that people dislike your team so much. Get over it.

The Man U thing is odd - someone mentioned this to me recently and I couldn't work it out. If there were a Leeds City here Leeds United would be referred to as Leeds U. For some reason Man U fans don't like this but I've never worked out why.

If you are telling me you don't smile wryly when Man City or Liverpool lose I don't believe you. And whether I write Man U, Man Utd, Red Scum or whatever you will always arrogantly refer to your team as United when there are many others with the same name.

cantona · Post by **cantona** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:11 pm

I know that people hate Manchester United and accept it and yes I also love when Manchester City and Liverpool lose and it is a part of the game. But when I see all this ABU shit then Leeds evidently not give you much pleasure right and in tread called Greatest Sporting Moment

BVCP206 wrote:3rd place, Barcelona beating/destroying 'them' in the Champions League Final.

Happy Daze

runcible wrote:

-
runcible wrote:Wiltord scoring at Old Trafford to effectively win the league for Arsenal (who I don't even support) a few years back. I went crazy in my kitchen all alone, screaming and shouting, before wondering what my neighbours must think.

- Messi's header in May to seal Barca's Champions League win.

-
.

runcible wrote:I also have to mention this goal. Sure it's against the old scum but the touch shown by Edmundo is of a quality rarely seen ever. Applause to anyone who can do this. Silvestre didn't know where the player, let alone the ball, had gone. I'll never forget it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuiOPuNe0N0

yes I also hate fucking leeds but I'm not obsessed with them as you are with United.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:38 pm

cantona wrote:
runcible wrote:I also have to mention this goal. Sure it's against the old scum but the touch shown by Edmundo is of a quality rarely seen ever. Applause to anyone who can do this. Silvestre didn't know where the player, let alone the ball, had gone. I'll never forget it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuiOPuNe0N0
yes I also hate fucking leeds but I'm not obsessed with them as you are with United.

Thanks for remidning me of that goal. What a pleasure to watch - it'd be great against anyone but I did enjoy it more with Man U being involved (that's an issue you haven't addressed and one which I am genuinely curious about).

If you look back you'll see someone asked me if I enjoyed Sunday's result and I responded without any attack on Man U whatsoever. I have also stated that I don't gloat over Man U fans when they lose. Your furious reaction to everyone else's pleasure provoked me to respond.

When Liverpool were the best team many people hated their success but it was difficult to dislike genuinely good people like Shankly, Paisley and Fagin. I'll say again the only real reason I hate Man U is Ferguson. I don't think any non-Man U fans actually like the guy despite the admiration of his obvious ability. Read back - I supported your team on various occasions, now I loathe them because of the manager, pure and simple.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:47 pm

This happens here in the US but mainly with college teams. Specifically here it is the Michigan vs Michigan State battle. Michigan State being the school/team w/the percieved inferiority complex. I went to Michigan State but am not an ABM person. I did enjoy when Michigan lost to a far smaller school, Appalachian State infront of their 110,000 fans. It was glorious because, like a lot of United fans, they are such smug assholes. Especially the ones who never set foot in Ann Arbor, where the University Of Michigan is. And they are the ones most outspoken and obnoxious. They are nicknamed
"Wal-Mart Wolverines" by some media and Michigan State fans. Michigan's team is named the Wolverines and it is assumed most of their fans purchase their gear at Wal-Mart(or substitute any big box discount store).
Pro sports here never gets to the point of violence like used to happen in English Football. I have never sensed as tense an atmosphere as I have when going to home and away games at UK football grounds for teams my friends supported.
Maybe Yankees vs Red Sox but you rarely hear about violence.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:02 pm

spzretent wrote: I have never sensed as tense an atmosphere as I have when going to home and away games at UK football grounds for teams my friends supported.

You've been to a Leeds v Man U game at Elland Road too. The atmosphere can be a little unpleasant at times at those. Apparently it wasn't at all on Sunday and the complete wankers who normally sing the 'runway song' and the 'Istanbul song' were silent which is good news.

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:12 pm

is wrote: 4. My Father in Law (who supported Liverpool in the 70s, but now supports Manchester United).

In football terms, the ultimate betrayal. NEVER change your team. Especially switching to your greatest rivals. I hope he has some redeeming qualities.

Post by **spzretent** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:16 pm

I must admit the only tension I have ever sensed is walking into a game 7(deciding game) of any Stanley Cup Playoff Hockey series.
The most palpable of which was in 2002 Detroit vs Colorado. Detroit was losing the series 3 games to 2 and had to go away to Colorado and win game 6 just to stay alive. They did and came back to Detroit for game 7.
Entering the arena before game 7 you could cut the tension with a knife it was so thick. However, Detroit scored 4 goals in the first 7 minutes and it just turned into one of the greatest atmospheres ever. Like a 3 hour party.
I do remember going to a Barnsley vs Leeds match at Elland Rd and asking what was going on "over there" to which my host said "the police have surrounded the Barnsley mob". I was amazed Barnsley even had a mob. But that shows how little i know about English football.

Post by **runcible** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:50 pm

sunray wrote: In football terms, the ultimate betrayal. NEVER change your team. Especially switching to your greatest rivals. I hope he has some redeeming qualities.

That's it. The golden rule. No matter how shite your team is doing you can't switch sides. Liverpool to Man U, Celtic to Rangers, Arsenal to Spurs, Everton to Liverpool, Man U to Man City - those are pretty bad... Someone close to me swapped supporting Leeds to supporting Man U - right at the time Man U dominated everything and were by miles the team in the world. Way too easy.

redcloud · Post by **redcloud** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:51 am

sunray wrote: In football terms, the ultimate betrayal. NEVER change your team. Especially switching to your greatest rivals. I hope he has some redeeming qualities.

My enemy wears black and yellow. They're called the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I also loathe Baltimore but for other reasons. spzretent will know why Browns fans despise Baltimore.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:01 am

Yup! I dont blame you.

Stuart X.Hunter · Post by **Stuart X.Hunter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:17 am

runcible wrote:
sunray wrote: In football terms, the ultimate betrayal. NEVER change your team. Especially switching to your greatest rivals. I hope he has some redeeming qualities.
That's it. The golden rule. No matter how shite your team is doing you can't switch sides. Liverpool to Man U, Celtic to Rangers, Arsenal to Spurs, Everton to Liverpool, Man U to Man City - those are pretty bad... Someone close to me swapped supporting Leeds to supporting Man U - right at the time Man U dominated everything and were by miles the team in the world. Way too easy.

Now this is a far more interesting area for debate. I'd argue that perhaps there is a percentage (allbeit marginal) that may swap an allegiance (the very word, proving just how ridiculously tribal and dark ages the modern thinking armchair fan is) to a rival because the way they play football is more "awesome". Some individuals may see football as more than a duty and certainly more than how they (and others) identify themselves. I personally have never bought into the whole allegiance thing; to me it's like growing up on Oasis and never allowing yourself to see (or hear) anything as better than them. Times change, people change. This whole idea of a single football team as an extension of ones identity is (to quote Dizzee Rascal) "BONKERS!"

I grew up going to games with my Dad; Hamilton & Motherwell matches. I was banned from supporting an Old Firm team and as I've aged I'm thankful for it. My uncle started taking me to Rangers games and when I was in my early teens I used to go to Ibrox with my mates; nabbing "fail to show" season tickets on the bus. In my late teens I started watching Celtic and through my early twenties I had an affinity with them. However I found the snash that goes with either set of Old Firm supporters dull and very un-informed. A lot of them couldn't string a sentence together about how football is played; tactics etc and found that they were just there to revel in a moment of glory. In fact on Sunday evening as I was going to get a pizza, two lads turned and said to me "C'mon the Gers" as I got out the car. It was a 1-1 draw but they were not interested in football but rather in showing there red, blue & white feathers. Dull. I've seen people bottled, slashed, bricked and forced to bite kerbs when they've said the "wrong thing" at the "wrong time" to the "wrong person". If i'd have commented as to how Kris Boyd has developed his overall game this season i'm sure they would have replied with; better than Larsson now. It's the "one-up-man-ship" I don't really buy into it.
To take the "duty" aspect further; my ex's brother has followed Celtic around Europe for years, never missed a home game in years and If you cut him he'd believe his blood would be green and white. Talk to him about football and it's like a blank abyss staring back at you.

For me supporting/following a football team is more than just something I was born into/took on for identity, it has to be about the whole package. Is the on-field style of play to my taste, are the players commendable in there effort, is there a suitable youth system in place and do they utilise it, is the club an example to others and so on...

Sadly right now there aren't many that stack up.

So how did all of you get into supporting the teams you currently support?

Best,

Stuart

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:45 am

I was brought up with family members being avid Hamilton Accies supporters and thats continued through my life (even when we were almost kicked out of the league for going on strike!) Thru thick and thin its been tough, but an absolute delight to see them finally get to the top flight. The club itself is rather healthy just now which puts them in a much better position (financially, quality of players, etc) in the league compared to similarly small teams (st mirren, killie, falkirk, etc) so i think they might stick about the top league for a while.

As a kid, the first strip i was given was a Liverpool one... the white away strip from the 70s (think it was Hitachi sponsoring them at the time) and i that was me from then. I followed them through all the highs of the 70s and 80s when they were literally unstoppable; the team were amazing and there was no one who could touch them domestically or in Europe (i am still amazed at the one touch football the showed in the 80s with Dalglish and Souness and Rush... breath-taking to watch!)
Its a real shame for the way they have kind of unravelled in recent years... i don't doubt Benitez is a good manager, but they are not in a position to challenge the likes of Chelsea and both Manchester teams financially, which i think they deperately need, to help them. Hopefully things will change soon and they'll be able to get back up there to challenge for the Premiership title.

I still follow both, but probably football less so in general, alkthough i always try and catch the footie results to see how things are going for both. My son has taken a huge interest in footie over the last year, but its all Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona with him (he has no real favourites... he likes them all!

) but thats probably more an indication of how these bigger clubs are perceived by kids nowadays... big clubs with big budgets and big players. I've made a point in trying to steer him away from Rangers and Celtic as i know the social hassles that happen in the west of Scotland when you have ties or allegiences with either of them.

Top sporting moment - (1) Accies clinching the First Division two years ago to get promoted to the Premier League and (2) Breaking 2 fingers while saving a penalty as a kid and then saving the follow up to stop the other team from beating us! Hero for a day!

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:13 am

Laz69 wrote:Top sporting moment - (1) Accies clinching the First Division two years ago to get promoted to the Premier League

I was out drinking in Glasgow that day (I think it may have been someone's birthday or something), and somehow we all ended up in the Vaults in Hamilton celebrating with all the Accies fans, it was great. I've always had a soft spot for them, being the local professional team, but I'm a Celtic fan myself. I tend to think that for a lot of people, you end up following whoever your father supported, and that's the case for me.

While I enjoy the rivalry (me and my mates are split roughly 50/50 regarding Celtic and Rangers), I agree that all the nonsense and hassle surrounding Celtic/Rangers is something I could do without.

Greatest Celtic moment in my life was probably winning the league on the last day in 97/98, as it was the first title I was old enough to remember us winning, and our first in 10 years. Other highlights include getting to the UEFA Cup Final in Seville in 2003, beating Rangers 6-2 in Martin O'Neill's first Old Firm game in charge, and winning the league on the last day a couple of years ago, just after Tommy Burns' death.

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:45 am

There can be a difference between being a fan of football and a fan of a football club although one tends to actually be both of these things. I love to watch good football. The best team I have ever seen is the Arsenal side that went the whole season unbeaten and scored in every game. They came to Elland Road twice that season (once in the league, once in the cup) and won 4-1 both times â€“ on each occasion the Leeds fans applauded them off the pitch as they were so fantastic. Thatâ€™s rare at Elland Road. Wenger still has the mentality that he wants his teams to play good-looking football and itâ€™s given me a tremendous soft spot for Arsenal. I also loved watching Liverpool as a kid and through early adult years in the 70â€™s and 80â€™s and still like them to do well â€“ Harry Kewell joining them dented that for a while Iâ€™ll admit.

A great football match is so fantastic to see â€“ the France Holland game of the last Euros was breath-taking in so many ways and I just didnâ€™t want that game to stop. Another (rather odd) example would be that game when Man U were something like 3-0 down at half time against Spurs and came back to win 5-3 â€“ it was probably the only game where Veron got it right â€“ and I was amazed at how good they were to come back like that.

In my view once you support a team you canâ€™t change because another team is better. Youâ€™ll find most people support one side but like watching football in general and will normally have a second team or others for whom they have soft spots for various reasons such as thatâ€™s their local team. Over the years Iâ€™ve taken against more teams for various random reasons. My ex-boss, a Newcastle fan, gloated when Leeds were relegated and went into administration and sent an email to the whole division expressing his glee. Newcastle are now on my shit list (mind you with Joey Barton thatâ€™s easy). West Ham, a team who I always liked, lied and cheated about Tevez and got off so lightly at the same time the Football League threw every book they had at Leeds so West Ham made the list too. Galatasary for obvious reasons. Chuck in Millwall because their fans were so horrible at games I went to, any team Lee Bowyer plays for (I loathed him at Leeds too)â€¦ I accept Leeds have a percentage of very unpleasant fans â€“ I despise those people â€“ which makes my team one of the most hated in the country. I support them because my whole family have been brought up Leeds fans and my dad, now in his 80â€™s, has been going to Elland Road for over 70 years and still goes to this day.

nickh · Post by **nickh** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:36 pm

My father is a Chelsea supporter, marginally though these days. Mercifully he never took me to Stamford Bridge as a small boy. An old school friendâ€™s mum took us to see Fulham play Burnley in 1976 when George Best, Rodney Marsh and Bobby Moore were playing for them and thatâ€™s been it for me ever since. I have been buying a season ticket for 15/16 years now and have seen Fulham play in all 4 divisions and all over the country (including Raith Rovers!!). I donâ€™t know that I enjoy the premiership more than the second or third division but it makes me laugh when little olâ€™ Fulham put 3 past Manchester United and Liverpool, I was once happy if we managed to beat Northampton.

Hate is kind of a strong word for me but I do quite enjoy seeing Chelsea and QPR lose.

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:26 pm

The first football match I ever saw was Arsenal at QPR in the mid to late 80's at Loftus Road. And Trevor Francis was I think a player/coach. He made a pretty big splash in Detroit when he played in the NASL for the Detroit Express.
I actually got to see Pele play for the New York Cosmos vs Detroit. Even though it was a friendly I am proud to say I saw him play.
In the US 99% of fans follow their local team. Period. You are sort of stuck with them as we are in Detroit with our NFL team the Lions who have been mismanaged for 50 years. in 2008 they managed to do the impossible and not win a game the entire season. But we are still Lions fans. Luckily the other sports teams around here have had a lot of success.
See the thread below and Redcloud's frustration of growing up a Cleveland Browns fan. And he still is.

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:48 pm

Any predictions for tonights Manchester derby???

sunray · Post by **sunray** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:56 pm

Laz69 wrote:Any predictions for tonights Manchester derby???

Very little action. Its been cancelled.

helterskelter · Post by **helterskelter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:42 pm

been reading this post with interest. I support Chelsea, have done since I was 4 and saw them drive past where I lived in London after winning the fa cup in 1970. My dad then started taking me to stamford bridge but stopped when the hoolies were getting a bit naughty and like one of the earlier posters took me to Fulham for a couple of years. Lovely ground, friendly people, think my dads best friend knew the chairman or director Tommy Trindner I think who was an old comedian )not sure if i have that right) but we got to see marsh, moore and best and even though it was the atumn or winter of their carerrs was a good time.

Chelsea didn't win anything for 27 years until the 97 cup final and di matteos 43 second 35 yard goal made me cry. Great football and great music can have that effect on me. Got to meet danni inogue at wembkey and got a cheeky kiss too

I don't really get this hating other teams business even if awful things happen cause every club has some idiots following it - does that constitute hating the whole club? of course you chant at each other at matches but thats banter(mainly). The only issue I have ever had is when some individuals hatred for my team translates to them talking to me in an aggressive way . I can't stand this - its pathetic.

People talk about buying the leagure and all that but almost every club that has been successful has done it with lots of financial backing, not many exceptions to that rule are there? Its funny also that if you look at chelseas team - lots of them have been there a long time which is quite unusual for modern day players and yes they get paid very well but unusual

Post by **spzretent** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:53 pm

One thing I do remember was an opposing side's fans running around their end at Elland Rd with their arms out simulating a plane ij trouble after the Leeds plane had that aborted takeoff in London. Even the Leeds fans were laughing. i hear.

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:14 pm

helterskelter wrote: I don't really get this hating other teams business even if awful things happen cause every club has some idiots following it - does that constitute hating the whole club?

Of course it tends to be either jealousy or something petty and I'll readily admit that. Having said that if you think ANY Leeds fan has a soft spot for Galatasary then you need to think about your point being a general one. That disgraceful incident has caused massive tension between English and Turkish fans and will continue to do so for some time. That's UEFA's fault for doing nothing after the incident itself.

helterskelter wrote: People talk about buying the leagure and all that but almost every club that has been successful has done it with lots of financial backing, not many exceptions to that rule are there?

One of the reasons people I know hate Chelsea (I'm not one of them actually although I don't have much affection for them) is that they look at all the money spent and realise it was pretty much stolen from the Russian people, most of whom have nothing at all.

You're right about people spending big to win the league although Arsene Wenger has spent massively less than the other 3 of the big 4.

helterskelter · Post by **helterskelter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:58 pm

I think that if someone did an indepth analysis of where most football clubs finance came from there wouldn't be many that were clean. There are massive egos attached to people who want to own clubs and with that probably a whole load of shit that most of us would be uncomfortable with on differing levels. I think its near on impossible applying any logic to football anyway - its almost 100% about emotion which is why we love it surely?

Anyway Runcible we do have a lot in common - mr father christmas! Any chance of him putting that electric fence back up?

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:25 pm

Ha ha! Yes I remember that! What a crazy idea!

Stuart X.Hunter · Post by **Stuart X.Hunter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:57 pm

runcible wrote: One of the reasons people I know hate Chelsea (I'm not one of them actually although I don't have much affection for them) is that they look at all the money spent and realise it was pretty much stolen from the Russian people, most of whom have nothing at all.

You're right about people spending big to win the league although Arsene Wenger has spent massively less than the other 3 of the big 4.

You can sit Usmanov beside Abramovich for naughtiness...and I'd imagine pending what happens in Russia...Arsenal could soon become Chelski Mk2.

Best,

Stuart

Laz69 · Post by **Laz69** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:05 pm

sunray wrote:
Laz69 wrote:Any predictions for tonights Manchester derby???
Very little action. Its been cancelled.

Yeah... saw that after my post... who'd have thought the turnstiles would have killed it!

Post by **runcible** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:21 pm

Stuart X.Hunter wrote:
You can sit Usmanov beside Abramovich for naughtiness...and I'd imagine pending what happens in Russia...Arsenal could soon become Chelski Mk2.

Best,

Stuart

I have heard that. So - Usmanov vs Kroenke? What do you reckon? American real estate dollars versus Russian mystery money?

nickh · Post by **nickh** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:30 pm

is wrote:
nickh wrote:Chelsea
A long long time ago, when the Spiritualized web forum was somewhere else, you didn't used to be able to type the word "Chelsea". The person who set the board up seemingly had it rigged so it would automatically change itself into another word. A rude one. No-one knew why...

That's pretty funny, do you think Jason is a Fulham fan then?

Stuart X.Hunter · Post by **Stuart X.Hunter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:52 pm

runcible wrote:
Of course it tends to be either jealousy or something petty and I'll readily admit that. Having said that if you think ANY Leeds fan has a soft spot for Galatasary then you need to think about your point being a general one. That disgraceful incident has caused massive tension between English and Turkish fans and will continue to do so for some time. That's UEFA's fault for doing nothing after the incident itself.

Am I right in thinking there is still no definitive sentence been handed out for this? It'l be 10yrs in April. Poor, poor families.

Best,

Stuart

Stuart X.Hunter · Post by **Stuart X.Hunter** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:31 pm

runcible wrote:
Stuart X.Hunter wrote:
You can sit Usmanov beside Abramovich for naughtiness...and I'd imagine pending what happens in Russia...Arsenal could soon become Chelski Mk2.

Best,

Stuart
I have heard that. So - Usmanov vs Kroenke? What do you reckon? American real estate dollars versus Russian mystery money?

Hmm if i was pushed at present I'd say Stan. He's positioned himself well. Gazidis took over at the start of the year and he's bedded in with the other directors now.
In truth it'l be neither though...think the 18,000 or so shares that Stan and Alisher have are tidy little earners alone...something close too 500 quid per share earnings. Nice maths!!!

Best,

Stuart

bunnyben · Post by **bunnyben** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:05 pm

mr onions yesterday...again! i was nearly having a fit it was so tense...damn you england, that's why we love you!

Post by **runcible** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:20 pm

I was 'watching' the test match on that BBC live update thing and it was unbearable.

niamhm · Post by **niamhm** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:22 pm

Been watching the BDO darts on the BBC this last week ,the 2 Quarter finals today have been incredibly exciting stuff ,Hankey ,the reigning champ lost 5-4 after leading 4-1 then tonight Waites the fav. lost 5-4 after coming back from 4-0 to a rank outsider,now whether darts is an actual sport is an old chestnut I can`t really answer,and it certainly aint my Greatest Sporting Moment,but on sick leave with a gammy knee I`ve certainly been lapping it up.

jack white · Post by **jack white** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:16 pm

wtf?! FFS!! Hankey LOST???? i had to change channel when the game was 4-2 to Hankey & 2 games apiece. i turned over ASSUMING Hankey had regained his composure & would see the match out in that game, as he'd thrown a couple of 180s to tie the set.. so bummed i missed that, but happy he lost!

Stuart X.Hunter · Post by **Stuart X.Hunter** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:02 pm

Stuart X.Hunter wrote:
runcible wrote:
Stuart X.Hunter wrote:
You can sit Usmanov beside Abramovich for naughtiness...and I'd imagine pending what happens in Russia...Arsenal could soon become Chelski Mk2.

Best,

Stuart
I have heard that. So - Usmanov vs Kroenke? What do you reckon? American real estate dollars versus Russian mystery money?
Hmm if i was pushed at present I'd say Stan. He's positioned himself well. Gazidis took over at the start of the year and he's bedded in with the other directors now.
In truth it'l be neither though...think the 18,000 or so shares that Stan and Alisher have are tidy little earners alone...something close too 500 quid per share earnings. Nice maths!!!

Best,

Stuart

Probably not in the right thread but can't be bothered to create a new one (for a myriad of reasons). Anyone keeping an eye on the re-financing of MU debt?

I've been dropping in and out of it and after about a week I can begin to understand what is happening.
In short, the Glazers are re-financing in order to lower the amount they have borrowed and secured against themselves; the Payment In Kind (PIK) loans as well as generating cash flow (for working capital) should that be required.
They are (long term/9yrs) increasing the interest on monies secured against the club but creating cashflow too the PIK loans (which sit at ~14.25%) and directly to the team.
The refinancing of the existing loan (after bond issue) will cost some Â£35mill (changing from a fixed rate to a floating type). However the refinancing will allow more flexible facilities...somewhere in the region of up to Â£70million can be moved between holdings. In addition and now that the club appears (close too) debt free a new revolving credit facility has been agreed whereby up too Â£75mill can be borrowed as working capital.
So If I'm correct in analysing this...The Glazers re-finance the money secured against the club, in doing so the club bears an additional 35mill for re-financing but gains a facility whereby 70mill can be moved (loaned) to a parent company. I'd imagine this 70mill will be moved and used to reduce the PIK loan value (forget the interest as it's paid on completion of the loan).
The initial PIK loan being 138 million and now valued at ~200million. So it returns to the start point. There are finances available for players to be bought.

Annyway my back of a fag packet calculations suggest that all that's really going on is the agreement of better credit facilities and a huge gain for the Glazers!!!
The PIK loan, due in 2017 (I believe) under the current scheme would ultimately cost 520mill (based on an initial 130mill borrow). If this 70mill is up-streamed the PIK will cost 325mill. A saving of ~Â£200mill.
The bulk debt of 500mill will be all but wiped with the bond issue but would cost ~45mill per annum at the fixed interest rate. Let's say they have 100mill of debt left after the bond issue at a floating rate of base plus 2%...that equates to 2.5mill per annum. When the bonds are up interest of 382.5mill will have been paid. Add in the rate on the remaining debt, some 22mill and you are near the 400mill mark. Similar to the 45mill per annum currently being paid.

Now the PIK loan will be due for repayment the year before the bonds are to be returned. The Glazers will have sorted that out and the club will still be half a billion pounds in debt. At which point the Glazers will find a buyer and wander off into the sunset...they can claim up to 6mill each year for there services (the 5 of them). Quick maths= 5*6*11(ish)=300million
A lesson in how to turn a profit without any capital!

All thats left for the team to do is reach the ECL final every year and find a player of 40mill value to offload each season thus ensuring the stability of the club.

Not bad for a club once vauled at 800mill (in the black) not so long ago.

Best,

Stuart

cantona · Post by **cantona** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:05 pm

I hope someone will come in and save the day, buy them out, but I doubt they'd agree to the sale at the moment. I suspect they want a few more years yet - pocket a bit more cash before they realise they're fooked.

I would like to see that the fans owned the club like Barcelona. Perhaps somewhat naive, but you are allowed to dream.

Shinesalight · Post by **Shinesalight** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:10 pm

I must admit, I've read alot about this in the Guardian this week and still can't get my head round it. It does just seem like the Glazers are stitching the club up even more, putting the ground at risk while decreasing their own chances of any losses, and increasing the total amount the club are in debt. Like Stuart says, the whole business model seems to rely on them regularly proceeding to the very later stages of the Champions League, selling players at an immense profit, hiking up ticket prices and increasing revenue from TV/advertising/corporate sponsorship year in in year out. Surely its just a massive house of cards situation. This really could be another Leeds scenario, though I'm sure they must know what they're doing.

The Guardian also highlighted the fact that the Glazers' American football team (Tampa Bay Buccaneers) have gone from a 9-7 winning record to a 3-13 losing record and that there is an environment of cost-cutting in place there with the team spending less on players than any other between 2004-2008.

It looks dodgy on both sides of the Atlantic. Still ,the Glazers themselves seem to be doing ok.....they've an estimated fortune of $2.2 bn!!!