Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

It's fairly unlikely you'd have made it here without ever having heard of Jason's previous incarnation. So here you go, talk away...

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Dreamweapon
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Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by Dreamweapon »

Following the Spz reissue programme, wonder if we could get any further treatment for Spacemen 3 / Spectrum....?

I know that Space Age have reissued Spacemen 3 stuff on several occasions and that this has been tied in with issues around Sonic/Gerald and even Jason getting involved asking us not to buy Space Age stuff, but is there any way of doing this without Space Age and getting some money to Sonic? Is there any additional material in the vaults for Spacemen 3, early Sonic stuff and Spectrum that could be added too? Sonic has also always been keen on making the packaging just as important as the music, so this could be an opportunity to give things a lush reworking, music/artwork/special vinyl wise.....

Could this also be an opportunity to give other ex Spacemen members some money too...?
natty
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by natty »

I'd bite their (Sony's?) arm off for a reissue of Soul Kiss. My oil pack CD is worn out and skips, and my original issue black vinyl is in bad nick thanks to the crappy cheap record player I had as a teenager.

I would re-buy most of the Spectum catalogue if reissued, tbh. Those plastic sleeves for the early singles were hardly ideal for keeping records in good condition, even if they looked nice.
Ian
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by Ian »

I think the chances of this are extremely thin for the time being. A shame, a deluxe Soul Kiss would be very welcome, there's enough material from singles etc. for a second disc, even before the possibility of real rarities like the original demos, should Pete still have them.
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SpEnCeR1
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

if only!

I've got 2 copies of 'soul kiss..' in oil packs, both in good condition but i'd like a remastered 'highs lows heavenly blows' please and an expanded 'what came before after' or something similar would be a good idea.

its not happening though is it ? :?
spzretent
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by spzretent »

I found I had an extra US copy of Soul Kiss and put it online when I saw what they are fetching. I priced mine at half the price others were asking or had sold for and received a message from someone who couldn't pay what I was asking but could I burn one for them for $10. Not having the ability to burn CDs anymore I said I can't. He then told me how he has been looking forever but just quit his job and funds are low. I cut the price in half again so he could afford it.
He was thrilled and he will have the actual CD instead of a burned copy.
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BVCP206
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by BVCP206 »

spzretent wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:54 pm I found I had an extra US copy of Soul Kiss and put it online when I saw what they are fetching. I priced mine at half the price others were asking or had sold for and received a message from someone who couldn't pay what I was asking but could I burn one for them for $10. Not having the ability to burn CDs anymore I said I can't. He then told me how he has been looking forever but just quit his job and funds are low. I cut the price in half again so he could afford it.
He was thrilled and he will have the actual CD instead of a burned copy.
"Tis the season.
:D
Lovely gesture :D
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angelsighs
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by angelsighs »

I thought Soul Kiss was out of my reach, but then a couple of years back I managed to spot a CD version on discogs (non oil version) at a reasonable price and jumped on it asap. If you look now, you're struggling much more- and with the other Spectrum albums, even more so.

A reissue campaign would certainly be welcome- wouldn't even need anything unreleased necessarily. Just mop up everything that's out there. I realise these things are complicated though.
Even just to get a bit more exposure for Pete's catalogue would be great.
davedecay
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by davedecay »

US copies of the CD are well under $20 on Discogs.com
https://www.discogs.com/release/843807- ... ide-Divine

Shipping adds a bit, depending on where you live. Fortunately there are sellers worldwide.
BessieBoporBach
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by BessieBoporBach »

Dreamweapon wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:21 pm Following the Spz reissue programme, wonder if we could get any further treatment for Spacemen 3 / Spectrum....?

I know that Space Age have reissued Spacemen 3 stuff on several occasions and that this has been tied in with issues around Sonic/Gerald and even Jason getting involved asking us not to buy Space Age stuff, but is there any way of doing this without Space Age and getting some money to Sonic? Is there any additional material in the vaults for Spacemen 3, early Sonic stuff and Spectrum that could be added too? Sonic has also always been keen on making the packaging just as important as the music, so this could be an opportunity to give things a lush reworking, music/artwork/special vinyl wise.....

Could this also be an opportunity to give other ex Spacemen members some money too...?
The Spiritualized reissue series was possible because Sony controls all of the Dedicated/Arista recordings and were willing to license them out. Some examples of Sony's willingness to license out Spiritualized releases include the Plain vinyl reissues from about 10 years ago and the Glass Redux versions of Fucked Up Inside. All of that was Sony material. More on Glass Redux in a moment.

Sony also controls Soul Kiss and Highs, Lows through Silvertone, so if someone wanted to license those titles, they probably could. Somebody would actually have to step forward and do it, though. Surprisingly, Sony recently put out Highs, Lows on one of its own sublabels, Music on Vinyl (operated in Holland I believe), so they clearly thought there was some kind of market there. Music on Vinyl has a sister label incidentally, Music on CD.

The other stuff is where it gets tricky. The rights to Spacemen 3 are divided between two parties. Fire controls everything originally released on Glass: so, Sound of Confusion, Perfect Prescription, Performance, and the first 3 singles. Fire can do whatever it wants with that material and neither Gerald Palmer nor anyone else has any say. The rights were sold to them outright. Jason and Pete would get their mechanical and performance royalties just as they theoretically would with any other release. Who knows how interested Fire would be in licensing their material to another party. As far as I know the last time the Glass material was issued by someone other than Fire was the Taang CDs in the '90s. Fire has kept their Spacemen 3 holdings in print continuously for a few years now.

Gerald Palmer/Space Age/Adasam controls everything else, including some Spectrum/Sonic material, and it's not possible to reissue it without dealing with him. Palmer obviously understands the value of this material as he too has kept almost all of the Spacemen and Sonic material he controls in print continuously since about 2005. It periodically comes and goes with revised artwork, but the content remains the same and it's always through Palmer, even when licensed to another label like Superior Viaduct.

Ironically, although Fire was the original release label for Playing with Fire and Threebie 3, present-day Fire doesn't control those titles, Space Age/Adasam does.

I just don't think it's possible for any non-Glass Spacemen material to be reissued without Palmer's participation. On paper, he owns the rights.

For the Spectrum stuff controlled by Sony, someone has to take an interest. And here's the problem: the main party taking an interest in this stuff is, you guessed it, Gerald Palmer. Remember the Glass Redux reissue of Fucked Up Inside? Well guess who distributes Glass Redux? That's right, Adasam (i.e. Gerald Palmer). So even a title that is clearly controlled by Sony and not Gerald Palmer, an album that has nothing to do with Spacemen 3 or Sonic or any contract related to them, was only reissued through the involvement of Gerald Palmer. How and why this happened, I have no idea. But it happened.

The only exception I can think of that might be possible is that the rights to things that originally came out on Bomp in the US (Spacemen Are Go, Playing with Fire) might be separate for US licensing purposes. This is why Taang was able to reissue Playing with Fire in addition to the Glass material. (Not sure how they got the rights to Threebie 3?). Does this mean it's possible to circumvent Gerald Palmer for Spacemen Are Go or Playing with Fire in the US? I have no idea, but I doubt it.
heisenberg
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by heisenberg »

Did anything ever come of the legal proceedings Jason and Pete started against Palmer? Depressing to read that the artists have no control over how their material is handled.
BessieBoporBach
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by BessieBoporBach »

heisenberg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:25 pm Did anything ever come of the legal proceedings Jason and Pete started against Palmer? Depressing to read that the artists have no control over how their material is handled.
As I understand it, there were two prongs to the complaint raised by Pete Bain and then taken up by Jason and Sonic. First, they were claiming nonpayment (or underpayment) of royalties -- either mechanical or performance. Second, they were claiming (as I recall) that the contract they signed in the 1980s was somehow improper or unfair.

N.b., I am not a lawyer. However, it seemed like the problem with #1 is that all Palmer/Adasam had to do is demonstrate that royalties were being paid out at IFPI rates to the appropriate parties, and if he did that then the post put up by Pete Bain and the statements made by Jason and Sonic might be construed as defamatory under the UK's fairly strict defamation laws. This is probably why the statements got taken down/retracted.

As for the contract itself, it will be very difficult to establish impropriety, but I hope Jason and Pete are able to achieve some kind of outcome that finally allows their music to be treated with respect.
heisenberg
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by heisenberg »

BessieBoporBach wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:00 pm
heisenberg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:25 pm Did anything ever come of the legal proceedings Jason and Pete started against Palmer? Depressing to read that the artists have no control over how their material is handled.
As I understand it, there were two prongs to the complaint raised by Pete Bain and then taken up by Jason and Sonic. First, they were claiming nonpayment (or underpayment) of royalties -- either mechanical or performance. Second, they were claiming (as I recall) that the contract they signed in the 1980s was somehow improper or unfair.

N.b., I am not a lawyer. However, it seemed like the problem with #1 is that all Palmer/Adasam had to do is demonstrate that royalties were being paid out at IFPI rates to the appropriate parties, and if he did that then the post put up by Pete Bain and the statements made by Jason and Sonic might be construed as defamatory under the UK's fairly strict defamation laws. This is probably why the statements got taken down/retracted.

As for the contract itself, it will be very difficult to establish impropriety, but I hope Jason and Pete are able to achieve some kind of outcome that finally allows their music to be treated with respect.
I would've thought one third of the copywriter holders releasing product without consulting the others for over thirty years would constitute impropriety? Perhaps more difficult for Sonic given that he seems to have been involved in some of the releases (Forged Presciptions being the best example). But man, Jason has had decades of his stuff being rereleased with absolutely no say over it. Scandalous. Given that greasy Palmer has previous on screwing artists over financially, you'd think he'd be in hot water over this. I think I recall also Sonic saying had given up due to being unable to financially continue fighting the case? What a depressing scenario.
BessieBoporBach
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by BessieBoporBach »

heisenberg wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:37 pm I would've thought one third of the copywriter holders releasing product without consulting the others for over thirty years would constitute impropriety? Perhaps more difficult for Sonic given that he seems to have been involved in some of the releases (Forged Presciptions being the best example). But man, Jason has had decades of his stuff being rereleased with absolutely no say over it. Scandalous. Given that greasy Palmer has previous on screwing artists over financially, you'd think he'd be in hot water over this. I think I recall also Sonic saying had given up due to being unable to financially continue fighting the case? What a depressing scenario.
Unfortunately, it's very unlikely that Jason or Pete are "copyright holders" for the recordings. It's important to distinguish ownership of a copyright for writing a song (usually held by a publisher) and ownership of a copyright on a recording.

If you look at most of your major-label CDs, you will probably see a disclaimer to the effect of "The copyright in this sound recording is owned by (label name), Ltd." It's only when the artist owns the so-called "master rights" that they can actually control distribution and licensing of their music. This is what's going on with Taylor Swift right now: she still gets royalties for her old recordings as a songwriter and performer, but she doesn't own them (isn't the copyright holder) and thus has no control over how they are sold, licensed, packaged, or distributed.

Jason and Pete are entitled to royalties as songwriters (mechanical royalties) and performers. However, it's likely they signed away the ownership of their recordings (master rights) whenever they signed the management contract with Gerald Palmer. It's quite a routine arrangement.

So Jason's publisher (and through them, Jason) are legally entitled to payment every single time someone purchases or streams or plays a version of "Lord Can You Hear Me" on the radio or TV. But without master rights, Jason has no control over how the song is used or distributed. His only legal right is to get paid for it.
Flexi
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Re: Spacemen 3 / Spectrum Reissue programme

Post by Flexi »

heisenberg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:25 pm Did anything ever come of the legal proceedings Jason and Pete started against Palmer? Depressing to read that the artists have no control over how their material is handled.
An interesting company has been formed last summer; SPACEMEN 3 A LEGAL MATTER BABY LTD

Pete and Jason are both directors; https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 0/officers

They’re up to something! Apparently working together in a way they haven’t in decades.

Jason is also sole director of Stolen Music Ltd, set up in 2020; https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12698253

The plot thickens.
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