*****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

It's fairly unlikely you'd have made it here without ever having heard of Jason's previous incarnation. So here you go, talk away...

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sonic boom
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*****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by sonic boom »

BEWARE CRAPPY UNAUTHORISED T SHIRTS

please be aware that the continued abuse of Spacemen 3 and our copyrights continues

If the shirt shirt says its 'trademarked' be aware this was illegitimately registered against the copyright holders wishes .

AVOID ANYTHING CLAIMING "OFFICIALLY LICENSED " or having a dumb "trademarked' logo on the Spacemen 3 logo

Myself & Pete Bassman are the owners in some of the copyrights used and have not granted ANY PERMISSIONS to GERALD PALMER , STEVE KALIDOSKI OR SPACEAGE RECORDINGS

I AM STILL IN LEGAL DISPUTE WITH SPACEAGE AND THEY ARE NOT PAYING ME ANY ROYALTIES FOR SPACEMEN 3 RECORDINGS OR T-SHIRTS

PLEASE SHARE THIS INFO
SEE OTHER POSTS FOR MORE DETAILS ON THESE THIEVES .
niamhm
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by niamhm »

Saw Piccadilly Records claiming to have a limited run of `offically licencesd` shirts earlier, I found it hard to believe.
sonic boom
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by sonic boom »

niamhm wrote:Saw Piccadilly Records claiming to have a limited run of `offically licencesd` shirts earlier, I found it hard to believe.

Yep - thats a lie ...... Not hard to believe , unfortunately ...

Beware ......if u care . Xpk
Laz69
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Laz69 »

Pete,

I know its possibly not the best time, but is there any way some official shirts could be produced and sold to provide us with a ligitimate way to give back to the band(s)? I'd love a new SP3 shirt and always wanted a Spectrum shirt too. I'd happily pay to get these officially.
angelsighs
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by angelsighs »

I would imagine if Pete was able to supply genuine T shirts, he would be. Maybe this whole mess is making that difficult.

count me down as another person who would very much like to buy one; and know the money is going to the right people.
BzaInSpace
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by BzaInSpace »

Me too.

It's like the crappy imitation Spz shirts that have been floating on eBay for years: usually a variant on the Ladies and Gentlemen... sleeve sound waves but really badly done.

I wish both Pete and Jason had regular and official merch sales goin' on.
O P 8
Laz69
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Laz69 »

angelsighs wrote:I would imagine if Pete was able to supply genuine T shirts, he would be. Maybe this whole mess is making that difficult.
I assumed it was just due to how busy he was... maybe if he saw that there was demand and somewhere he could advertise them (i.e. here) he could maybe get something going to help get some monies back towards the band(s) sooner rather than later.
angelsighs
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by angelsighs »

you might be right, he's a busy man. I am sure there is a significant demand for them out there if he did get the opportunity.
Bull Lee
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Bull Lee »

I mentioned on the Geneva cd thread that the evil baldy c*nt is selling T-Shirts but the f*cker is also selling vests :roll: and long sleeve T-Shirts. It's all on ebay. It's a shame Silk Road is now defunct, I can think of something that could be bought for hire. :wink:
Laz69
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Laz69 »

Bull Lee wrote: It's a shame Silk Road is now defunct, I can think of something that could be bought for hire. :wink:
Still out there ;)

Shall we start a GoFundMe?

:lol: :lol:
stegraham
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by stegraham »

I see that Forged Prescriptions is being re-released today:

https://www.roughtrade.com/gb/music/spa ... scriptions

Space Age = Palmer?

Ste
Laz69
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Laz69 »

stegraham wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:18 am Space Age = Palmer?
Yep... the very cunt.
juanbaudelaire
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by juanbaudelaire »

Amazon and EBay are full of these. Sickening.
friendly fire
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by friendly fire »

Interesting. Adasam (i.e. Palmer) is the other main named company in this lawsuit.

Well worth reading!

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/ ... operation/
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Chris Barrus »

The guy who hired me into the music industry once told me "an idiotic and ignorant t-shirt salesman has no business managing an important band." I never forgot that...
natty
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by natty »

Probably too much to hope for but it'd be lovely if this was the beginning of the end for that louse Palmer.
Dreamweapon
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Dreamweapon »

Presumably I'm safe to say that if any of us do want to buy any of the constant stream of Spacemen 3 reissues that dribble out or are already out there, we're best off avoiding anything on Space Age... Space Age releases would however see money going into indie record stores, but do the rest of the proceeds go straight to Gerald and Steve K? Are they both still together at Space Age?

If we buy anything on FIre, do Sonic & the guys see proceeds from those?

Which are the safe purchases?
olan
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by olan »

I may be wrong but I think Palmer is involved with the resuscitated Fire label. I recall reading something about there being hassle over the Bark Psychosis reissues that Fire did.

EDIT: See here for instance_ https://twitter.com/Mole_9/status/1101194686298013696
Dreamweapon
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Dreamweapon »

I actually had a feeling that he owned the rights to anything released by 'Spacemen 3' due to Sonic and other members' frustrations, whatever label it was released on. I gather that anything (re)released on Space Age whether by Spacemen 3, Spectrum or EAR is also linked to Gerald. I think I remember reading either on here and/or in Erik Morse's book that he actually in effect bought the rights to the band name, bought I thought that this was also stopping Sonic releasing anything under any other moniker. I still don't understand then how Sonic has been able to release this great new album without anything going to Gerald. It would be so good if this is the start of a new chapter for Sonic and hopefully other members too......

This still brings us back to the question of what is ethical to buy and what isn't from any of the releases and/or reissues out there, and does this include stuff on any pother labels....? Presumably there isn't anything by Spacemen 3 that remains unreleased or in the archives, or by any of the other projects from members....?
dselevan2
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by dselevan2 »

sonic boom wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:33 pm BEWARE CRAPPY UNAUTHORISED T SHIRTS

please be aware that the continued abuse of Spacemen 3 and our copyrights continues

If the shirt shirt says its 'trademarked' be aware this was illegitimately registered against the copyright holders wishes .

AVOID ANYTHING CLAIMING "OFFICIALLY LICENSED " or having a dumb "trademarked' logo on the Spacemen 3 logo

Myself & Pete Bassman are the owners in some of the copyrights used and have not granted ANY PERMISSIONS to GERALD PALMER , STEVE KALIDOSKI OR SPACEAGE RECORDINGS

I AM STILL IN LEGAL DISPUTE WITH SPACEAGE AND THEY ARE NOT PAYING ME ANY ROYALTIES FOR SPACEMEN 3 RECORDINGS OR T-SHIRTS

PLEASE SHARE THIS INFO
SEE OTHER POSTS FOR MORE DETAILS ON THESE THIEVES .
Does this still apply to the new threebie three?
Dreamweapon
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Dreamweapon »

Great that Sonic has 'Almost Nothing...' on its way v soon which I'm looking forward to arriving, and 'All Things...' released. Does he retain full ownership of these, or do Gerald P and Steve K take a cut?

Interesting seeing the following from wiki:

Chart performance for All Things Being Equal re chart positions:

Scottish Albums (OCC) - 42
UK Dance Albums (OCC) - 3
UK Independent Albums (OCC) - 17

Wonder how it fared in normal UK album charts, and who are exactly getting on down on the dancefloor to it too (No 3!!)...?
Dreamweapon
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Dreamweapon »

Every year, Space Age seem to re release Spacemen 3 stuff both in general and for Record Store Day. I also occasionally re-read some of Sonic's posts on here as well as Pete Bain's blog and again having re-read Will's 'Playing The Bass...' book of anecdotes got me thinking again. Do all the members of Spacemen 3 still get no income from anything? How about Sonic and any of his projects? Is Gerald really free to do what he wants? How does it work for Sonic's recent output? Is he now a free man? Any news on these companies that were set up by him and Jason?
catweazel
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by catweazel »

Given the endless re-issues and the fact that most of the SP3 catalogue has been available pretty much all the time - I do wonder if the SP3 sales actually outstrip the J.Spaceman/Spiritualized/Spectrum/Sonic Boom sales? I mean, they're always around - at least for a good decade or so now.

That would be a pisser.

Reading Morse's book (and iirc) they did sign away the SP3 rights to Palmer quite early on. In return, Palmer got them the showbiz contacts that then signed Spiritualized (at least) and did a lot of promotional work. Although, reading Will's book now, and just looking at the extensive touring they did before they signed to Palmer - you have to wonder how much he actually did for them? They were working their socks off long before he appeared on the radar. Constantly on the road, one gig after another for a good couple of years.

He may well have changed their fortunes, or maybe not? That's the conundrum. By all accounts, there's a good argument for both.

Either way, the guy didn't write any of the tunes or add one solitary musical note. So, bad contracts aside, I'd say the catalogue should - on a moral level - revert back to the original members of the band. But, being the rather large cash-cow that we see today - I'd expect Palmer to fight tooth and nail for what he has. I'm guessing he only gives a shit about the money at this point.

However, when it comes to copyright and ownership - morals are out the window. Doesn't matter what you think is 'right' - it's all about the ink on the contracts. If they really did give it all away to Palmer back in the day - then they're shit out of luck, unfortunately. No judge is going to tear up the original contracts if that's what they all mutually agreed.

Although, I do wonder what happens when Palmer passes away? Who ends up with the rights then? Is he even still alive at this point?
Ammuniti0n Train
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Ammuniti0n Train »

[quote=catweazel post_id=152907 time=1691663132

Although, I do wonder what happens when Palmer passes away? Who ends up with the rights then? Is he even still alive at this point?
[/quote]

He is still alive and has several companies. I confess to having Forged Prescriptions (sorry).
Copyright owned by Adasam Ltd. Makes no difference when/if he snuffs it.
catweazel
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by catweazel »

I got all the early Spage Age ones when they were released, Forged Prescriptions among them :)

I think things were okay for a long while and then soured later on? I'm pretty sure Forged Prescriptions was done with Pete's input, right? I probably bought it via his webstore iirc.
Ammuniti0n Train
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Ammuniti0n Train »

Just been looking on Rolling Heads independent record site.

Take a look .... company director is Sam Palmer.
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Ian »

Please bear in mind that in the past, both Pete Bain and Pete & Jason have made statements that they have later had to retract or take down. Legal matters can be a minefield, and expressing opinions in public isn't always wise. I am sure that many of us have strong feelings about this, but the best thing to do is to leave it to the people involved to decide what they want to do. If they have news for us or want us to do anything that might help them, I am sure they will let us know.
I have a passion sweet Lord...
http://www.spacemen3.co.uk
Ammuniti0n Train
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Ammuniti0n Train »

Ian wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 5:42 pm Please bear in mind that in the past, both Pete Bain and Pete & Jason have made statements that they have later had to retract or take down. Legal matters can be a minefield, and expressing opinions in public isn't always wise. I am sure that many of us have strong feelings about this, but the best thing to do is to leave it to the people involved to decide what they want to do. If they have news for us or want us to do anything that might help them, I am sure they will let us know.
You are right. Apologies for my posts. Got a bit carried away on the bloody 'net yesterday.
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Dreamweapon »

I also wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble. I was just more wondering if anyone knew where things were up to with this. Can Gerald still carry on re-releasing these in different versions? Do any of the band receive any monies at all from sales? What does Gerald own the rights to (past and future releases)? What about those companies that Sonic and Jason set up? Just curious if anyone knew more following re-reading the Erik Morse and Will C books.
Ammuniti0n Train
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by Ammuniti0n Train »

Dreamweapon wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:39 am I also wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble. I was just more wondering if anyone knew where things were up to with this. Can Gerald still carry on re-releasing these in different versions? Do any of the band receive any monies at all from sales? What does Gerald own the rights to (past and future releases)? What about those companies that Sonic and Jason set up? Just curious if anyone knew more following re-reading the Erik Morse and Will C books.
I was listening to Sound of Confusion last night. 2.35 is credited to Kember / Pierce, copyright control. But it's on Live in Europe 1989 released by Space Age.
All a bit of a minefield the music business
BessieBoporBach
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Re: *****BEWARE SPACEMEN 3 FANS *******

Post by BessieBoporBach »

Ammuniti0n Train wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:52 am
Dreamweapon wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:39 am I also wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble. I was just more wondering if anyone knew where things were up to with this. Can Gerald still carry on re-releasing these in different versions? Do any of the band receive any monies at all from sales? What does Gerald own the rights to (past and future releases)? What about those companies that Sonic and Jason set up? Just curious if anyone knew more following re-reading the Erik Morse and Will C books.
I was listening to Sound of Confusion last night. 2.35 is credited to Kember / Pierce, copyright control. But it's on Live in Europe 1989 released by Space Age.
All a bit of a minefield the music business
Song publishing is entirely separate from the right to release recordings. By and large, anyone can record or release a recording of any previously published song, as long as they own the recording copyright itself and royalties are paid out to the relevant rights society.

It beggars belief that someone who has been in the industry as long as Gerald Palmer wouldn't pay out the publishing fees for the recordings he has commercialized, lest an organization like BMI or ASCAP come after him.

I'm not a lawyer, but one problem for Pete and Jason might be that Spacemen 3 themselves evidently never signed a publishing contract, as (for example) Jason eventually did with the Performing Rights Society in ~1994. Because many Spacemen 3 compositions were self-published with the curious designation "copyright control Spacemen 3", and because Gerald Palmer evidently legally *is* the entity known as Spacemen 3, when Palmer pays out the required royalties to "Spacemen 3," he could well just be paying himself.

In any case, there is evidently no rights society administering the mechanical royalties for Spacemen 3's original songs.

We really have no way of knowing unless someone is willing to share a cancelled cheque or royalty statement. I wouldn't hold my breath!
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