So these Verve reissues

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angelsighs
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

mc wrote:Another vote here for the UH version of Come On - nothing comes remotely close. Nick's layered guitar overdubs give the song so much more depth.

UH was one of those albums that annoyed me by proxy, thanks to friends that only ever listened to songs they already knew from the radio. What's the point in buying an album if you're only gonna play tracks 1 and 4? Then Lucky Man came out, so track 9 was put on the playlist. Oh, and then eventually track 2 once Sonnet came out :roll: :evil:
glad it's not just me.. UH version of Come On for the win!

haha that's funny. I know exactly what you mean. one friend of mine had the album and when I asked her opinion, said that "I only like the songs they released as singles, with the rest it sounds like you've got to be on drugs or something".. it made me think that if she ever listens to A Storm In Heaven, it would melt her brain!!

I had another friend who had R.E.Ms Automatic For The People but would only play the singles on repeat (particularly the last 3 songs).. what is with these people??
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by niamhm »

Come On is one of my fav Verve tracks full stop,
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by burningwheel »

So the UH box was supposed to have a full disc of rarities, but apparently Ashcroft shot it down for live tracks instead. ffs. This is no longer going to have 'all ways and maybe' or whatever it was called
Last edited by burningwheel on Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Laz69 »

Nick was having a bit of a rant on FB yesterday about wee Dickie being a wee dick! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by burningwheel »

Yeah, that was great
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

what on earth is Ashcroft playing at.
word is wants all the royalties for 'All Ways Are Maybes' even though it was one of those Verve tracks where they put together the backing track for him to put words onto.

here is proposed tracklisting for the UH outtakes disc

sweet & sour
wednesday madness
neon wilderness (idea)
jalfrezi
this time (beatnick mix)
tina turner (!!!)
oh sister
sonnet (demo)
original insanity
all ways are maybes
king riff 2

if they can't work this out, I really hope it leaks!!
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

angelsighs wrote:what on earth is Ashcroft playing at.
word is wants all the royalties for 'All Ways Are Maybes' even though it was one of those Verve tracks where they put together the backing track for him to put words onto.

here is proposed tracklisting for the UH outtakes disc

sweet & sour
wednesday madness
neon wilderness (idea)
jalfrezi
this time (beatnick mix)
tina turner (!!!)
oh sister
sonnet (demo)
original insanity
all ways are maybes
king riff 2

if they can't work this out, I really hope it leaks!!
Nick says his cd copy of these songs has been stolen and has asked for it not to be put online. Unless it was stolen by Ashcroft's messenger pigeons, surely it will have to leak eventually? Between that and Nick sharing his rejected liner notes online, sounds like it's unhappy times in Verve land. What a shame.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by burningwheel »

I hope someone leaks snakeskin one day, probably won't though
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Bon Ronham »

ARRRRRGGGGRRR!! A full show from the ASIH tour has shown up on youtube!! Shakey at best footage of mostly RA but STILL this is holy grail level footage!!

https://youtu.be/PqWJIz2-XKw
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by niamhm »

heisenberg wrote:
Nick says his cd copy of these songs has been stolen and has asked for it not to be put online. Unless it was stolen by Ashcroft's messenger pigeons, surely it will have to leak eventually? Between that and Nick sharing his rejected liner notes online, sounds like it's unhappy times in Verve land. What a shame.
I took him to be being sarcastic and mischievously hinting to putting them up himself.

Ron Bonham, cheers for the tip, it`s not too exciting visually speaking but still way watchable, but the big bonus is the superb sound quality, listening just now, a right treat, shame I'm not a smoker anymore pretty sure this would be going down even more of a treat :wink:
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by burningwheel »

He said he has digital copies of the tracks. I didn't even consider he might leak them, hmmm
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angelsighs
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

No idea of the context of this vid. looks like Nick turned up to a guitar shop in Manchester recently, he plays a version of A New Decade over a drum machine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snU2st0eAKk
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

the Urban Hymns tracklisting has been revealed. It's basically all the B Sides, the two extra tracks from the best of, then oodles of live material (including Haigh Hall, predictably enough).

no sign of the outtakes that Nick was talking about. I really hope they find their way onto the interweb one day :(

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Urban-Hymns-Su ... 634&sr=8-2
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by niamhm »

Interesting to see Nick McCabe making a spirited defence against criticism of Forth on his fb page this week.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by TheWarmth »

I'm not surprised McCabe defended Forth. He was more a part of that album than Urban Hymns. I kind of agree with him that it is unfairly derided, but I haven't listened to it in a long time. There are some good songs, for sure. It's a real shame that "Love Is Noise" was the first single and it really is not one of the album's highlights. It was a rough start for their recorded return.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by olan »

Dave Caldwell and Nick McCabe have been having an interesting exchange on FB about this new reissue and also Forth.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

TheWarmth wrote:There are some good songs for sure, but alos some clunkers.
This about sums up my feelings on Forth too. A curate's egg of an album if ever there was one. Some great stuff but also some trash. And production is too shiny (what's with all these comeback albums and their glossy production?)

I'm disappointed that the outtakes aren't there on the Urban Hymns set but I'm just gonna enjoy it for what it is, rather than what it could have been. Just see it as a nice Verve live boxset.
To have the full Haigh Hall on DVD will be good too. Plus that Jools Holland session is gold.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by TheWarmth »

I went back and listened to UH for the first time in forever the other day and it felt lifeless to me. I really don't like the super glossy production and Ashcroft's sappy as fuck songwriting is coming to the fore with crap like "Sonnet". It really should have been a solo album, as he originally intended it.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by niamhm »

angelsighs wrote:
TheWarmth wrote:There are some good songs for sure, but alos some clunkers.
This about sums up my feelings on Forth too. A curate's egg of an album if ever there was one. Some great stuff but also some trash. And production is too shiny (what's with all these comeback albums and their glossy production?)

I'm disappointed that the outtakes aren't there on the Urban Hymns set but I'm just gonna enjoy it for what it is, rather than what it could have been. Just see it as a nice Verve live boxset.
To have the full Haigh Hall on DVD will be good too. Plus that Jools Holland session is gold.
I`m not going to say its all that, but trash seems a bit harsh, what is it you think is trash?

Also, what`s happened with your quote from The Warmth? No mention of any clunkers in his post I can see :?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

Oh that's weird. maybe The Warmth edited his post at some point. I've not been creating fake news, honest!

I think the bad songs on Forth are Rather Be, Valium Skies, I See Houses, and Noise Epic. Then there's some average songs and some brilliant ones. On the whole I'm glad they did the comeback. The gigs were good too and some of the other tracks from the era are excellent (Thaw Session, All Night Long)
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by spzretent »

It took a few years but the A Storm In Heaven CD box set arrived today.
I started out with the DVD. Jesus. This is just how I remember the early tours. They...were...immense.
Cant wait to check out the rest of this box set.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

Im completely in awe of the stuff that Ashcroft wouldn't allow on the UH boxset. I listen to it fairly regularly. Most of it is better than some of the stuff on UH. At least four of these tracks could have replaced four songs on UH and have made it a far better album in my opinion. Amazing how much stuff they managed to record and write/jam in 1997 considering they reformed in January that year and the album came out in September. By all accounts the album was in development hell of sorts until McCabe came back in '97.

I love the ASIH box too. What I don't get is the missing piece of music between Make it til Monday and Blue. Was that intentional or did someone balls it up somewhere?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by TheWarmth »

I don't know what the fuck Ashcroft was thinking not allowing the unreleased material on the box. Those songs are fantastic. Plus, they would have sold many more copies of the UH box had they been included. Did he really think they wouldn't leak?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by spzretent »

After reading the interview in the ASIH booklet my assumption was confirmed. Richard was the driving force, at least as far as ambition is concerned, of Verve. In his quest for superstardom he fucked things up.
When Spiritualized did their first record signing at my shop Jason and Kate mentioned how great ANS was and then Richard went back in and remixed or remastered the entire record. Supposedly not for the better but I have to assume it is the version we got.
Then his decision to short change the fans on the UH box.
Not as great a businessman nor superstar as he thinks he is.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

I remember you telling this story about Jason and Kate enthusing over ANS in it's previous form and I've always been intrigued by what it sounded like. I wonder if the outtakes from the ANS are an indicator i.e. perhaps slightly more loose and closer to ASIH in spirit and sound.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by TheWarmth »

I find it hard to believe that Richard remixed and remastered ANS by himself before it was released. Maybe he and Owen Morris made revisions together, but I just don't see Dickie sitting at the mixing desk and capably doing that work on his own.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by spzretent »

He instigated it. It was his idea. I am sure he didn't remix or remaster it himself. I should have made my post more clear.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by TheWarmth »

That makes sense. Still, I think ANS is an amazing album. I like the final product very much. UH, on the other hand ... now that we have all the unreleased tracks, I think that could have been a much cooler album.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

thought many here would appreciate this- a rehearsal version of Judas from 2008. I think it sounds tremendous- the Verve magic really was still there at times. shame they didn't play more of Forth live (largely because of who know who)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IbfRmy7AaA
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

Thanks for sharing this. I really miss Nick's guitar playing and wish he was releasing new stuff on a regular basis. I also wish he had the opportunity to play some of his rockier stuff as although he has released stuff outside of his bands it often goes down an ambient/production road. The man can really let rip with the heavy riffs and needs a band or project that will let him turn it up loud.

While I don't think he'd fit as a full-time member of Spiritualized, I would love him to appear on one of their recordings one day. As far as contemporary Spiritulalized goes, the ambient intro in the live versions of The Road or the album recording of Sail on Through would gel pretty well with his style. Anyway, here's hoping we get some new material from Nick soon, even if just to hear how that custom guitar of his sounds.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

Definitely. It's bonkers that it's been over 10 years since Forth (terrifying- time flies), and Nick has little to show for that musically. The Black Sub album didn't excite me much but it's still always good to hear his guitar playing. I wish he'd release something. Anything.

It's all well and good taking pot shots at Ashcroft's stuff but at least he's putting material out there to be judged.
I see what you mean about it being cool if Nick went back to playing proper rock riffs again but ambient stuff is cool too...

Nick playing with Spiritualized? interesting one.. I reckon he'd be good on I Am What I Am or Heading For The Top
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

some unseen (at least by me) Verve footage has popped up on youtube fairly recently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1DVt7P-cwE

The Drugs Don't Work and Come On, live on French TV.

I know Drugs probably isn't most people's fave Verve song, but I always liked the stuff Nick added live.
Come On absolutely rocks. I'm sure Tongy's guitar isn't turned up though... :?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

The version of TDDW on the 1997 Reading festival boot is sublime
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

SpEnCeR1 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 6:32 pm The version of TDDW on the 1997 Reading festival boot is sublime
Yup I actually think it's a brilliant song, the best of their ballads except History. Ashcroft's been chasing another ballad as good throughout his whole solo career

and Nick's superbly tasteful guitar playing in the live versions adds so much
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »



awful! unsure why this has been 'released' now. I remember the title being talked about at the time but it's pretty crap, there must be some better stuff from Forth sessions floating around in someone's HD or is this and BPO (need hi res version obvs) and the b'sides it ?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpaceLine »

Cum on feel the noize

Hahahahahahaha. Ashcroft turned out to be such a massive douchebag
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

yeahh it's not very good is it? it doesn't really sound like them. more of a Liam Gallagher B side. there's no room for the band to add anything.
"Girls grab the boyzz!!"

it's still interesting to hear it as a completist. I'd love Forth to get the boxset treatment like the other albums did. there's definitely enough material- that picture in the deluxe edition of the blackboard with a list of various songs..
and many of the songs came from jams so just hearing those would be great.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

a Forth box with unheard jams before they ironed any excitement out of them with the finished album would be great ... like ASIH box with a load of jams ( which we didnt get either ) :?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by sunray »

Could be of interest to some here. Four songs pro-shot from the Astoria 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZbRNcun-Dw
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angelsighs »

sunray wrote: Sat May 23, 2020 8:29 pm Could be of interest to some here. Four songs pro-shot from the Astoria 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZbRNcun-Dw
Definitely of interest 😯 blimey blimey they were good weren't they.
Pete really giving it some welly on the drums.
And Nick does this amazing thing where he has loads of delay on and he also stomps on the fuzz to give it an extra push, it never gets too messy
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by sunray »

angelsighs wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:40 pm
sunray wrote: Sat May 23, 2020 8:29 pm Could be of interest to some here. Four songs pro-shot from the Astoria 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZbRNcun-Dw
Definitely of interest 😯 blimey blimey they were good weren't they.
Pete really giving it some welly on the drums.
And Nick does this amazing thing where he has loads of delay on and he also stomps on the fuzz to give it an extra push, it never gets too messy
I read in the comments that there's earlier material to come in the same quality, so you might want to keep an eye on that channel.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

Ah The Beat . Remember watching this at the time as a 6th former back from the local on Friday night with a headful of beer and grass. Yep they were great then .
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by sunray »

Apologies if posted before. Austin 1993 full show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqWJIz2-XKw
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

Wasn't sure of best place to put this? But Nick McCabe had finally released some new music, and it includes Pete on drums. Basically jams and he is back showing what he can do with a delay pedal
Actually like this more than a lot of the Black Submarine stuff.

https://nickmccabe1.bandcamp.com/album/ ... e-heart-is
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

angel-sighs wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:43 am Wasn't sure of best place to put this? But Nick McCabe had finally released some new music, and it includes Pete on drums. Basically jams and he is back showing what he can do with a delay pedal
Actually like this more than a lot of the Black Submarine stuff.

https://nickmccabe1.bandcamp.com/album/ ... e-heart-is
Yeah this is great. Sounds amazing if you turn it up. Prefer this to Black Sub too. It makes me think this is how Verve would sound if we're still a going concern and Si, Pete and Nick had put Richard out of his misery
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Vancouver »

Thanks for that. Probably would not have noticed that at all if not for this post.

I know Forth is kinda just fine....but would love a reissue with all the extra tracks. Just to complete the legacy of this band.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

Yeah it does sound great turned up doesn't it? I like Nick's approach to production.
In case you missed it, he also released 'We are we are' a little while back which is one long track and a bit more ambient.

Also agree on Forth, its a mixed bag but if anything it needs the boxset treatment just to shine a light on the B sides and outtakes which are better than much of what made it onto the album.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by burningwheel »

Forth outtakes?
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

Yeah there was Blue Pacific Ocean which i think may have been leaked by a band member. And there was an instrumental version of Judas which was either a demo or rehearsal, i can't remember.
The Thaw Session was also better than much of the album
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

angel-sighs wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:06 am Yeah there was Blue Pacific Ocean which i think may have been leaked by a band member. And there was an instrumental version of Judas which was either a demo or rehearsal, i can't remember.
The Thaw Session was also better than much of the album
Blue Pacific Ocean was leaked by Nick albeit in a crummy bit rate and the bsides were corking. Again could only seem to get those @320. That live Judas rehearsal is lovely too. Much of that Forth production seemed to iron Nick's guitars out the mix
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

The Forth album could have been way better with-

Mover
Muhammad Ali
All Night Long
Blue Pacific Ocean.

Always thought Forth sound weirdly tinny or thin. Strange given that it was produced by Chris Potter from UH which sounds great.

And the new stuff Nick released on bandcamp is pretty good. Having Pete to jam with has really let him rip on the guitar. The first track is particularly awesome.
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Aquarian-Time »

Spoke to Si last night. He isnt involved in any current Nick & Pete activities, they are trying to rope him in, but he sounded like he wasnt committing.
he asked if it was any good (the most recent recordings) so he hasnt even listened to it :D

Had a good chat about Clapham Grand where I recently watched Kikagaku Moyo and obviously they played an iconic gig in 92 (i think it was 92 anyway)
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

Aquarian-Time wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:49 am Spoke to Si last night.

....nice
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

I guess if Si got involved it would just more readily get compared to the Verve, mind you these releases seem pretty under the radar stuff so I don't think it matters.
I get the impression Nick has quite a backlog of stuff and bandcamp is the perfect place to get it out there
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

How could I forget this song in terms of Forth outtakes?
Wouldn't say it's a lost classic tbh.. :shock:

https://youtu.be/d_K6hKmpiME


Also while having one of my wallet draining roots around on discogs, I noticed that someone uploaded some test pressing CDs to the Verve discography including some live tracks and an album of unreleased tunes.
From the notes I would surmise that there was a plan for a possible Verve reissue campaign following the release of the Singles album in 2004. Obviously it didn't happen and their reissues took a different form with the boxsets years later.
Some of these songs have seen the light of day since, others haven't.

Live songs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/23924801-The-Verve-Live

Unreleased songs:
https://www.discogs.com/release/2392492 ... nreleased-
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Vancouver »

Interesting. Would love to hear both those discs.
heisenberg
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

Vancouver wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:02 pm Interesting. Would love to hear both those discs.
Anyone brave enough to ask Simon or Nick if they have copies of these? :P

Wonder why they never came out. My guess is another Ashcroft veto.
Aquarian-Time
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by Aquarian-Time »

I seldom mention The Verve in conversation, we have done but its when I felt there was a green light during us talking about other bands or my own, (which he is a keen advocate of) He is not someone you can pin down for ages, but full value when you do,, really nice guy. I will ask him next time I see him for sure, he may have some info for us.
angel-sighs
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

I think thats the best way to play it, let the band come up organically rather than come across like a fanboy!

I just got hold of a promo CD from the Forth time which has interviews with all the band members around the making of the album as well as track by track on all thr songs. I've uploaded it to youtube as one long track but can also share the original files if people want them.

https://youtu.be/ePC1HTrNpaI

Also by the by.. all the years later i am actually quite fond of Forth, i have to say! Its not perfect but with hindsight there's still enough of the magic there
heisenberg
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by heisenberg »

These must have been recorded after they fell out again. Always wondered how they managed to do tours and promo and stuff when they weren't really talking. The Verve sections of Jazz Summers' book give some insight into that time and it sounds like it was a bit of an ordeal.
angel-sighs
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

I know they had basically split by the time the album came out, but i reckon these interviews were actually recorded a few months before when they were still playing happy families.
SpEnCeR1
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

Forth could've been a great record with better song selection also; somewhere between jamming in the rehearsal room and final product the excitement got ironed out in the mix. Richard seemingly being a proper Dick at the time also overshadows it somewhat.
angel-sighs
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by angel-sighs »

SpEnCeR1 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:03 am Forth could've been a great record with better song selection also; somewhere between jamming in the rehearsal room and final product the excitement got ironed out in the mix. Richard seemingly being a proper Dick at the time also overshadows it somewhat.
Yep agree on all that. Swap out a couple of songs, give the whole thing a remix (it sounds a bit shiny and for want of a better word 'plastic') and you have one fine record. I still listen to it a fair bit though, it's a good mature Verve record which sometimes I prefer to Urban Hymns. Even though it's got some more Ashcrofty anthem type songs, at least it's not full of strings and the band add what they can.
SpEnCeR1
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Re: So these Verve reissues

Post by SpEnCeR1 »

angel-sighs wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:35 am
Yep agree on all that. Swap out a couple of songs, give the whole thing a remix (it sounds a bit shiny and for want of a better word 'plastic') and you have one fine record. I still listen to it a fair bit though, it's a good mature Verve record which sometimes I prefer to Urban Hymns. Even though it's got some more Ashcrofty anthem type songs, at least it's not full of strings and the band add what they can.
theres the definite sense that after the initial 2 weeks jamming Dickie got the willies and couldnt face being in a room with them again, the first 3 tracks seem to have had the most effort in production/ mixing ( even those rushed ) and the rest just sound like demos tossed out, fingers crossed hoping for the best... Ma Ma Soul excepted.

Would love this album to have the proper remix treatment. almost as much as MC5 Back in the USA
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